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Post by FlashAhAhh on Sept 5, 2017 4:18:12 GMT -5
Tulumbas Rogatka!!! It's exceptional. Just keep moving, maim, keep moving, maim, move, maim move, Beacon steal, move, maim. You can frustrate RDBs to the point of screaming. I accept people have different play styles and that this is a game and should be fun. However I strongly hold a different opinion which I want out there since the forum is also about giving advice to newer players, so I am adding my £ 0.02. The Rogatka is my favourite 'bot. First Au purchase after 4th slot and never regretted. Bought a second and won a third, so I have had quite a few run-outs with a Tulu Rog. The strength of the Rog is its mobility, it is not that difficult to get in and out of 300m range. Every time I have tried out Tulumbas on a Rog I have always found myself thinking: I wish I had Orkans 'cos I could have got in there and taken out that 'bot. RDB Griffin is a far superior Tulumbas platform with enough firepower to make a difference, and it still has sufficient mobility to keep out of 350m range. For fun I am currently running all three Rogs: based on what I have to choose from two Ork Rogs and one Taranasaurus Rog. Even the Taranasaurus is far far more effective than the Tulumbas Rog. You may enjoy running a Tulumbas Rog - fair play, have fun, your choice - but to state it is "exceptional" in a thread about effective load-outs is mis-leading. Tulum Rog beats RDB Griff, everytime. The griffins firing window on the rog is 3 seconds, the rogs firing window on the griffin is 30 seconds. As for Orks Vs Tulums, 3 seconds at <500m is very short, the same three seconds <300m is a lifetime! And so you know, it's apparent to EVERYONE that we are giving opinions here, I don't think we need a disclaimer on everything we post
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Post by FlashAhAhh on Sept 5, 2017 4:19:46 GMT -5
Why? Neither can get anywhere near you! True that! They'll be dead pissed at you, unload RDBs on you, gracefully hop to the left/right/back or into cover. They be like ?firetruck?kkkkkkkkkkkk! You wait til that Blue thunder carnage is close enough and tear down the ancile just as he gets there.
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Post by WilsonK on Sept 5, 2017 4:24:25 GMT -5
True that! They'll be dead pissed at you, unload RDBs on you, gracefully hop to the left/right/back or into cover. They be like ?firetruck?kkkkkkkkkkkk! You wait til that Blue thunder carnage is close enough and tear down the ancile just as he gets there. *Fires rockets, ancile bar goes down along with pinball sound effects*
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Post by TravLar on Sept 5, 2017 4:31:16 GMT -5
I'm sure it's not the most effective but LEO Zeus Pins. Had pretty decent success. Don't see any on the field. It's a pretty decent counter to RDB. High HP makes it difficult to take down and gives it an advantage over Fury I feel which just gets bashed now-a-days. 5c's I've found this really effective too. That Zeus just keeps dishing out the damage, the pPins have good splash and old Leo sucks up a lot of damage so by the time he goes down he's dished out a lot. With a Molots or Gekkos you can stay further out of range but I feel it makes better use of his HP to dish out higher damage with the Pins.
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Post by TravLar on Sept 5, 2017 4:53:18 GMT -5
Pawn Griff (WW2 Russian Dive Bomber - Petlyakov Pe-2) with Tulus and Spirals. Spirals do a bit less DPS than Pins but you can hit a lot more. I shamefully ran one an entire game at Valley and had over 400k damage - much more than I expected.
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Post by Pilot Moby_dic on Sept 5, 2017 5:45:46 GMT -5
I'm sure it's not the most effective but LEO Zeus Pins. Had pretty decent success. Don't see any on the field. It's a pretty decent counter to RDB. High HP makes it difficult to take down and gives it an advantage over Fury I feel which just gets bashed now-a-days. 5c's I've found this really effective too. That Zeus just keeps dishing out the damage, the pPins have good splash and old Leo sucks up a lot of damage so by the time he goes down he's dished out a lot. With a Molots or Gekkos you can stay further out of range but I feel it makes better use of his HP to dish out higher damage with the Pins. Thought I was the only one :-)
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Post by linearblade on Sept 5, 2017 6:52:10 GMT -5
Tulumbas Rogatka!!! It's exceptional. Just keep moving, maim, keep moving, maim, move, maim move, Beacon steal, move, maim. You can frustrate RDBs to the point of screaming. In my opinion only way to play a rog. Somehow despite giving it mountain of hp, it just doesn't have the killing power to get in a melee... needs to be run as such
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Post by linearblade on Sept 5, 2017 6:56:48 GMT -5
It's sort of a waste (only in so much that you could invest 5k gold in another ancilot / etc) , not quite tho. Lancelot Zeus / tulu.
I ran that until I got a bulgasari
1 Zeus is a solid trade for 2 pins. Give you advantage over rdb griffs, and let's you hit while airborne. Also the extra hp and shield allows you to survive melee rushes against you
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SHBlake
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Post by SHBlake on Sept 5, 2017 11:24:55 GMT -5
Tulumbas Rogatka!!! It's exceptional. Just keep moving, maim, keep moving, maim, move, maim move, Beacon steal, move, maim. You can frustrate RDBs to the point of screaming. In my opinion only way to play a rog. Somehow despite giving it mountain of hp, it just doesn't have the killing power to get in a melee... needs to be run as such I'd agree to an extent, making use of cover, so showing your face while you're jumping to end up behind cover means you'll deal more damage than they can reply with your movement and be safe when you land only to do the manouvre again or move on to another distracted opponent cuz one minute they're in control and before they know it they're getting hit on the flank or behind by a fast Rog. Again by the time they are ready to return fire you're out sight. Ancilot is great but my Orcan Rog does a lot more damage because of the amount of trouble I can get him into in a short time to deal Orcan damage. I regularly take down death button Griffs because of their lack of mobility after their first jump. So head on melee is terrible with a Rog (most times) but operate like a Wasp and like mine, it's one of your favorite options on maps with lots of walls and obstacles. Even on large maps when most of the teams are exhausted and it's 4 on 3 or whatever if you can cover ground quickly to take beacons, yet handle yourself in a 1 on 1, you'd find the Rog indispensable. I hate slugging it out. Too boring, I like the challenge of outmanouvering more powerful opponents especially Griffs.
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Post by Demosthenes on Sept 5, 2017 11:30:18 GMT -5
The Rog isn't meant to be a melee 'bot with any load-out, though an Orkan Rog is quiet capable of taking out a distracted Ancilot - up close and personal.
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Post by Joopiter on Sept 5, 2017 11:42:04 GMT -5
A punisher rog isn't bad either. The caveat is they must be lvl 11 preferrably 12 punishers. I tried this back at level 9's at it's not enough firepower to be satisfying, but once you've got them maxed, they're great on their own. I have been close to going tow to tow with a taran rog inside of 350m. I've been running this for a couple days now, and it's been great at countering RDB's also.
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SHBlake
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Post by SHBlake on Sept 5, 2017 11:54:20 GMT -5
A punisher rog isn't bad either. The caveat is they must be lvl 11 preferrably 12 punishers. I tried this back at level 9's at it's not enough firepower to be satisfying, but once you've got them maxed, they're great on their own. I have been close to going tow to tow with a taran rog inside of 350m. I've been running this for a couple days now, and it's been great at countering RDB's also. Great idea, will try when my Lvl9 Punisher meets my Lvl11. I'm a bit biased to keeping my low HP bots out of sight as much as possible but I guess each loadout requires a different mindset to successfully operate.
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Post by Kanshou on Sept 5, 2017 12:41:45 GMT -5
I personally don't play this build but I have been seeing alot of Griffins with aphids and hydras. Does anyone here use them? How effective are they for you?
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Post by Prowler on Sept 5, 2017 13:57:18 GMT -5
Thunder Ancile Raijin. Idea is simple - Raijin has a lot of HP, but is vulnerable to rockets. Not only RDB and DB, but also Hydra, Spiral, Aphid, Zenit and Noricum. Ancile solves this problem, making Raijin exceptionally hard to kill. If you park him in good spot (for example, beacon B on the power plant, the one next to the beach), he is almost invincible. There is no possibility to hit him with long-range weapons, Ancile deflects Hydras, Spirals, Aphids, Noricums and Zenits. If someone want to capture that beacon, he must kill you in knife-fight. You have only one Thunder, that's true, but with Bastion 30% damage bonus and almost 500HP with your shields and Ancile, you are able to defeat almost every robot. More than once. What is more, on small maps, you can really help your teammates. I remember one game, when I stood under the C beacon on the Moon, Orkan/Thunder Lancelot used me as a cover. We were able to kill seven opponents! And of course, killing Raijin usually takes long, so you can hold your opponents for a long time. More than once someone finally rescued me, before I died. One thing to note, this setup is weak at the first levels. When everything is at level 6 or higher, it's good to go. It took me 3 bots to push one off the center Yamatu beacon. strong build but less effective on large maps.
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SHBlake
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Post by SHBlake on Sept 5, 2017 14:20:18 GMT -5
I personally don't play this build but I have been seeing alot of Griffins with aphids and hydras. Does anyone here use them? How effective are they for you? They definitely will be effective but I've come to terms with the fact that unless you regularly use knife fighting weapons you won't see much 700,000 damage and above. Even my awesome Carnage Lvl 11/12 Zeus hitting Griffs and others almost non stop will still only get you around 700,000. A Hydra bot though that I've had exceptional success with is a Doc 2Hydra/ 2Orcan Combo. In expert league 1/2 (bouncing around?) Why? 1) It switches roles hunting hunters or close combat 2) And more importantly, Bots are quite confident, careless and annoyed as I bait them with the Hydra. Assaulting a BOT with 2 Hydra, what's the worst they would expect? Considering how uncommon the Doc is? 2 more light slots or one medium? Nope, when they swing the corner and are met with 2 lvl 11 Orcans, running sideways at 49mph medium and under are most often wiped out. Great for defending beacons on your own especially when you're being challenged by anything without an Ancile. By the time it reaches you it's already down to 3/4 health. Heavies with Ancile I offload on while doing a tactical retreat to at least take down their shield . Of course I try to gauge the opponent in advance not to find myself facing a Orcan thunder Lance at close range. At 250m I have taken out a couple running sideways. Also it allows you to watch the action from a distance doing tactful damage and closing in when there is an opening.
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inspirace
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Post by inspirace on Sept 5, 2017 14:36:48 GMT -5
and you will be frustrated by Ancilots and even Carnages Why? Neither can get anywhere near you! the frustration is that you cannot go near them either and, more importantly, you cannot harm them. what if they are sitting at the beacon you want/need to cap, or charging to the beacon you want/need to defend? you can of course run and survive but that will not help teammates much. these days a good cooperation of two full-pledged RDB Griffs is needed to take down an Ancilot. not sure a Tulu Rog can scratch the Ancile enough. even if you work together with an ally RDB, it will be less effective than two RDBs. and what will you do to a Zeus Carn? these Ancile bots will DICTATE where you can be in the map, and in return there is not much you can do except for running away. that's the reason you will get frustrated. of course you can, and should, collaborate with teammates, but there are many setups much more effective in doing so, than a Tulu Rog,
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Post by kukurukukuk on Sept 6, 2017 2:39:35 GMT -5
I personally don't play this build but I have been seeing alot of Griffins with aphids and hydras. Does anyone here use them? How effective are they for you? IMO, Hydra builds are highly ineffective in Beacon Rush. In Domination however, they still do have a place as a support bot. If only, due to the fact that when you're driving an unshielded melee bot, you want to stay in the front lines for as long as you can with as much health as you can. Hydras are good at wearing down knife fighters and forcing you to take a less than optimal path to the actual fight. The aphid hydra griffin variant is interesting because it can still pester you from a distance, but also has a sting if you decide to close in to take it out.
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Post by TravLar on Sept 6, 2017 4:50:22 GMT -5
I personally don't play this build but I have been seeing alot of Griffins with aphids and hydras. Does anyone here use them? How effective are they for you? IMO, Hydra builds are highly ineffective in Beacon Rush. In Domination however, they still do have a place as a support bot. If only, due to the fact that when you're driving an unshielded melee bot, you want to stay in the front lines for as long as you can with as much health as you can. Hydras are good at wearing down knife fighters and forcing you to take a less than optimal path to the actual fight. The aphid hydra griffin variant is interesting because it can still pester you from a distance, but also has a sting if you decide to close in to take it out. I'm gonna try this "Javelin" and "Shot-put"(Hydra and Aphids) combo out. Its a bit like SHBlake 's Hydra Orkan Doc too, lure them in an thump them. Just gotta watch that cover. Hyphid Giff, I dig it.
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SHBlake
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Post by SHBlake on Sept 6, 2017 8:51:50 GMT -5
I personally don't play this build but I have been seeing alot of Griffins with aphids and hydras. Does anyone here use them? How effective are they for you? IMO, Hydra builds are highly ineffective in Beacon Rush. In Domination however, they still do have a place as a support bot. If only, due to the fact that when you're driving an unshielded melee bot, you want to stay in the front lines for as long as you can with as much health as you can. Hydras are good at wearing down knife fighters and forcing you to take a less than optimal path to the actual fight. The aphid hydra griffin variant is interesting because it can still pester you from a distance, but also has a sting if you decide to close in to take it out. Depends on the build, your Orcan shooter can't be shooting 24/7 so if you're shooting Hydras on your downtime and agressive to get in Orcan range in the mean time then your Hydras are relevant. To each their own, I don't like Gekkos but obviously since they are common someone else is oriented to them to makemwork, I respect that. The only Bot I've shelved since Beacon Rush is my Carnage Zeus 11/12. Obviously it was awesome for me before BR hence me upgrading the hell out of it but my aim is to hit around 700-800,000. The Carnage just takes too long to rack up enough damage even when wreaking havoc. Hence I've found that all my Bots need to be able to do major melee damage to be viable. I actually fielded 3 Lances, the Carnage and a DB Griffin when I started Beacon Rush but was clubbered without a good balance of Bots that allow flexibility your results are inconsistent. More often with the brute force method you'll be outgunned. Gradually went back to my Tarrancelot, Orkan Rog, Doc Hydra/Orcan, Tempestalot-Punisher, DBGriffin because of how they allow Tactical fighting for the majority of the game and brute force at the right time. The moment you realize that the game is no longer a Special Forces type and down to infantry you charge in or switch to your other Bot built for the role.
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Post by frunobulax on Sept 6, 2017 9:00:23 GMT -5
Mixing ranges is never a good idea, especially if you mix 350m and 600m. You either lose 33% of your firepower or you have to get within 350m, where everybody will target a Hydra bot.
Hydra builds have to stay at 600m and behind cover.
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Post by Poopface on Sept 6, 2017 9:05:13 GMT -5
Back before 3.0 came out, I was tinkering around with a Trident (9)/Ancile (10) Pin (9) x2 Natasha. It was decent, but not the best thing in the world. I was going to level things higher, but they nerfed the Trident fire rate. The idea was to have it be paired with another midranger to provide a shield vs RDBs and other Tridents.
I've been kicking around trying it again with something else paired with the Ancile, but haven't decided what. In the meantime, I'm leveling up my Tulu Doc and Pinatas on my Leo.
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Post by kukurukukuk on Sept 6, 2017 9:19:41 GMT -5
Mixing ranges is never a good idea, especially if you mix 350m and 600m. You either lose 33% of your firepower or you have to get within 350m, where everybody will target a Hydra bot. Hydra builds have to stay at 600m and behind cover. Well, it is pretty obvious that mixing ranges and/or damage types rarely results in a super effective setup. Even more so, in Hydra's case where it has an almost identical light counterpart. But since the entire thread is centered on unconventional setups, a Hydra/Aphid build seems reasonable. The bulk of damage comes from Hydras in any bot that uses them and it is not rare to have an enemy close in on you while your attention is elsewhere. It also makes the build a little bit more effective in small maps.
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Post by vigusfatbelly on Sept 6, 2017 9:38:50 GMT -5
I mentioned this over on the Noricums thread, but last night I found a new love for KarateNori, especially since the Nori buff. I put an ancile on a Leo, and then put three noricums on it (lvl 8's) it does a good job of just providing cover and some mid/long range support as I move on beacons, but where it really shines is on maps like Moon, Valley and Springfied, where I can get it under some low hanging ceilings and just blast red bots with the splash from the nori's. The High HP of the leo, boosted by the ancile, just makes it a hard rock to get rid of.
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SHBlake
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Post by SHBlake on Sept 6, 2017 9:53:41 GMT -5
Mixing ranges is never a good idea, especially if you mix 350m and 600m. You either lose 33% of your firepower or you have to get within 350m, where everybody will target a Hydra bot. Hydra builds have to stay at 600m and behind cover. Well, it is pretty obvious that mixing ranges and/or damage types rarely results in a super effective setup. Even more so, in Hydra's case where it has an almost identical light counterpart. But since the entire thread is centered on unconventional setups, a Hydra/Aphid build seems reasonable. The bulk of damage comes from Hydras in any bot that uses them and it is not rare to have an enemy close in on you while your attention is elsewhere. It also makes the build a little bit more effective in small maps. If we just look at 33% less firepower then we're just thinking brute force, what about other stuff like +mobility than all other standard Hydra Bots +adaptability & flexibility in attack, for instance if you are assaulting a Leo you can offload your Orkans, switch offload Hydras from cover while Orcans recharge, then switch back to finish, Yes you can use a Lancelot but the other benefits are lost e.g.. When snipers like Furys are damaging your comrades. Head on getting in range and engaging isn't often practical but quickly getting close then firing Hydras from out of line of sight and furthermore they'll not be additionally scared as they see you getting closer assuming that they'll just get to shoot you there's not much worse you can do than your Hydras but bring Orcans to bare and you're more dangerous than almost any sniper and you've added a dynamic straight forward mainstream builds will never achieve. Play style has a lot to do with it. I don't think that we should make difinitive statements about builds that we have not fully explored in respect to others' unique experiences. Many players like FPS shooters and don't like RTS games. I like Both but RTS more. I'm sure that there are many setups that a number of critics of Hydra builds are awesome at and I respect that but at the same time they can't assume about a custom build to know the results a skilled user who developed it out of time testing can achieve. Since often we can't assume that the only positives from something new are what we can imagine. There are always much more that cannot be gauged with mere foresight e.g. I've recently used my Lvl 9 Orkans (pretty pathetic) on my Hydra Orcan Doc in Expert 2 and using it for most of the game reached just under 800,000. Because my play style was tactfully aggressive so I engaged with my Orkans regularly. Taking advantage of the same thinking that looks down on these builds. Which come to think about it now is great to hear since the more people that believe that a Hydra Bot can't really be all that dangerous, the more people will fall Pray to Hybrid builds.
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SHBlake
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Post by SHBlake on Sept 6, 2017 9:57:26 GMT -5
I mentioned this over on the Noricums thread, but last night I found a new love for KarateNori, especially since the Nori buff. I put an ancile on a Leo, and then put three noricums on it (lvl 8's) it does a good job of just providing cover and some mid/long range support as I move on beacons, but where it really shines is on maps like Moon, Valley and Springfied, where I can get it under some low hanging ceilings and just blast red bots with the splash from the nori's. The High HP of the leo, boosted by the ancile, just makes it a hard rock to get rid of. This is a good example of one far out build ??. Would love to hear about the sort of damage/game you have overall whilst this is in your hanger. Is it worth it in the long term?
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Post by frunobulax on Sept 6, 2017 10:02:40 GMT -5
A Doc is actually one of the few remaining items on my shopping list, and I will experiment with Hydra/Orkan and Tulu/Orkan as well as 4x Tulu and 4x Orkan.
But Hydra/Aphid Griff and Hydra/Orkan Doc are really apples to, dunno, cucumber or something.
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SHBlake
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Post by SHBlake on Sept 6, 2017 10:20:54 GMT -5
A Doc is actually one of the few remaining items on my shopping list, and I will experiment with Hydra/Orkan and Tulu/Orkan as well as 4x Tulu and 4x Orkan. But Hydra/Aphid Griff and Hydra/Orkan Doc are really apples to, dunno, cucumber or something. I had 1 and won 4, would give you one if that was possible.
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Post by Poopface on Sept 6, 2017 11:06:28 GMT -5
I mentioned this over on the Noricums thread, but last night I found a new love for KarateNori, especially since the Nori buff. I put an ancile on a Leo, and then put three noricums on it (lvl 8's) it does a good job of just providing cover and some mid/long range support as I move on beacons, but where it really shines is on maps like Moon, Valley and Springfied, where I can get it under some low hanging ceilings and just blast red bots with the splash from the nori's. The High HP of the leo, boosted by the ancile, just makes it a hard rock to get rid of. This is a good example of one far out build ??. Would love to hear about the sort of damage/game you have overall whilst this is in your hanger. Is it worth it in the long term? And I'd love to get recordings of Blue remarks when he pulls that thing out to play with.* * Author's note: In proofreading that statement, I've found that that reads pretty dirty. It was unintentional, but since I have the maturity of a 14 yr old, I'm leaving it there.
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Post by vigusfatbelly on Sept 6, 2017 15:58:14 GMT -5
I mentioned this over on the Noricums thread, but last night I found a new love for KarateNori, especially since the Nori buff. I put an ancile on a Leo, and then put three noricums on it (lvl 8's) it does a good job of just providing cover and some mid/long range support as I move on beacons, but where it really shines is on maps like Moon, Valley and Springfied, where I can get it under some low hanging ceilings and just blast red bots with the splash from the nori's. The High HP of the leo, boosted by the ancile, just makes it a hard rock to get rid of. This is a good example of one far out build ??. Would love to hear about the sort of damage/game you have overall whilst this is in your hanger. Is it worth it in the long term? I can't attest to the individual damage that it does. With my "front line" hanger (a Gunboat, DB, CarnyZuess, ThunderZuess & Leadhose) in Diamond II I've been averaging around 450-600K in damage. Last night I played my wonk hanger (Gunboat, HydraFujin, AphidPatton, KaratenoriLeo & ThunderPunisherNatty I call "thunder thighs') and across 15 or so games, my average damage was in the 500's. However, most games I never meched out, and in the close maps I spent most of my time in the KarateNoriLeo. It's a real stayer. So long term.... for me, yeah. It's fun. A LOT of fun. That it does some healthy damage is a plus.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2017 18:47:38 GMT -5
I play my Trident 2xMagnum 1xAphid Leo.
I only have 1 Ancile, so it goes on my Ancilot. I prefer the Leo over the Lancelot because of the light slots.
It's a fun build to kite RDB Griffins and DB Griffins. Once rocket threats are gone, you can corner shoot better than Ancilot with indestructible wall as shield. If they hide, you can get them behind cover with Aphid or chase them with Trident.
Mixing ranges is good for bots that play different ranges often. Esp. for a slow bot like Leo, it has enough weapons to cover every range.
This bot is good at countering Griffins and Lancelots. Ancilots are tough nut to crack.
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