powerplay
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Posts: 28
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Pilot name: Power Play
League: Diamond
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Post by powerplay on Aug 8, 2017 13:48:02 GMT -5
That's it, I'm about to stop playing War Robots. -22 is way too much to lose when you are the one with the less dammage output and the silly 1-2-3 bonus for beacon capture is an insult to usefull players
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2017 13:58:42 GMT -5
Beacon runners are not a necessity when it comes to winning, so I'm not sure about increasing the bonus for beacons captures, but I do agree that -22 may be a bit much. Despite this, I think that most of us continue to gradually climb the leagues rather than fall, and when a player falls in the leagues, it normally seems occur from Pixonic making changes to weapons that affect the player's hanger's ability to compete rather than a change of skill level.
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Post by amidf on Aug 8, 2017 14:00:55 GMT -5
That's it, I'm about to stop playing War Robots. -22 is way too much to lose when you are the one with the less dammage output and the silly 1-2-3 bonus for beacon capture is an insult to usefull players Can I ask why you care about your league position? Also, what league are you in, and what league do you think you should be in? -Amid
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Post by seanh on Aug 8, 2017 14:20:50 GMT -5
It is certainly frustrating when you have played a decent game but the machine tells you that you are the worst player on the team. I have been there many times, but luckily the machine doesn't know 「dookie」, if I have had a good game no number on the results screen will tell me otherwise. As for the -22, that doesn't bother me, in fact sometimes it's a relief, for me higher leagues have only ever resulted in a worse 「bum-bum」 kicking.
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Post by Danny Linguini on Aug 8, 2017 14:21:04 GMT -5
That's it, I'm about to stop playing War Robots. -22 is way too much to lose when you are the one with the less dammage output and the silly 1-2-3 bonus for beacon capture is an insult to usefull players Can I ask why you care about your league position? Also, what league are you in, and what league do you think you should be in? -Amid I'll say it again -- players ought not be focused so much on moving up the leagues too fast before you can sufficiently level up your hangar. Otherwise you find yourself in Diamond with a 6/7/8 hangar facing 9/10 hangars and higher and getting even more discouraged at the regular beatings than you are at the negative rank points when you occasionally lose now.
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powerplay
Destrier
Posts: 28
Karma: 13
Pilot name: Power Play
League: Diamond
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Post by powerplay on Aug 8, 2017 14:57:51 GMT -5
That's it, I'm about to stop playing War Robots. -22 is way too much to lose when you are the one with the less dammage output and the silly 1-2-3 bonus for beacon capture is an insult to usefull players Can I ask why you care about your league position? Also, what league are you in, and what league do you think you should be in? -Amid Thanks for this question Amid. Honestly, I don't think I'm qualified to answer it! I think I'm a decent player, My league is diamond 2 and I'm not necessarly unhappy with it. My rant is about this feeling of injustice I have when I contribute significantly to the win of the team and I receive nothing or worse, I lose something. Also, this system changed the behavior of many players, me included. We care way less about the main goal of the game: get those beacons. Nowadays, it happen often, especialy in big maps like springfield, that nobody cares about beacons that are far away because running them decreases overall damage output. I think it is a shame.
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Post by Danny Linguini on Aug 8, 2017 15:39:41 GMT -5
Thanks for this question Amid. Honestly, I don't think I'm qualified to answer it! I think I'm a decent player, My league is diamond 2 and I'm not necessarly unhappy with it. My rant is about this feeling of injustice I have when I contribute significantly to the win of the team and I receive nothing or worse, I lose something. Also, this system changed the behavior of many players, me included. We care way less about the main goal of the game: get those beacons. Nowadays, it happen often, especialy in big maps like springfield, that nobody cares about beacons that are far away because running them decreases overall damage output. I think it is a shame. The current ranking system is definitely inconsistent and skewed. On one hand, you have territory control as the main criterion for victory, yet the vast majority of other game rewards (specifically silver, gold, and rank points) are mostly dependent on damage given. It certainly causes a bit of conflict in my simple brain at times.
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Post by amidf on Aug 8, 2017 16:12:32 GMT -5
Thanks for this question Amid. Honestly, I don't think I'm qualified to answer it! I think I'm a decent player, My league is diamond 2 and I'm not necessarly unhappy with it. My rant is about this feeling of injustice I have when I contribute significantly to the win of the team and I receive nothing or worse, I lose something. Also, this system changed the behavior of many players, me included. We care way less about the main goal of the game: get those beacons. Nowadays, it happen often, especialy in big maps like springfield, that nobody cares about beacons that are far away because running them decreases overall damage output. I think it is a shame. The current ranking system is definitely inconsistent and skewed. On one hand, you have territory control as the main criterion for victory, yet the vast majority of other game rewards (specifically silver, gold, and rank points) are mostly dependent on damage given. It certainly causes a bit of conflict in my simple brain at times. I agree that's how it is. And we complained about it before. The result was no league points given to the losing team. That drove better behavior, but it also caused people who do massive damage with high level equipment to sit at lower league levels and crush others. The current system is a compromise. The nice thing is that you can get 5 gold for most beacons, but you still are going to lose about half your matches and not get that reward. Fight on. -Amid
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powerplay
Destrier
Posts: 28
Karma: 13
Pilot name: Power Play
League: Diamond
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Post by powerplay on Aug 8, 2017 16:32:17 GMT -5
The current ranking system is definitely inconsistent and skewed. On one hand, you have territory control as the main criterion for victory, yet the vast majority of other game rewards (specifically silver, gold, and rank points) are mostly dependent on damage given. It certainly causes a bit of conflict in my simple brain at times. I agree that's how it is. And we complained about it before. The result was no league points given to the losing team. That drove better behavior, but it also caused people who do massive damage with high level equipment to sit at lower league levels and crush others. The current system is a compromise. The nice thing is that you can get 5 gold for most beacons, but you still are going to lose about half your matches and not get that reward. Fight on. -Amid I agree with both of you. Additionally, the worst behavior this system is inducing is "I will do as much damage as I can and I don't care about winning because if I get in the first two places and lose, I'll still get rewarded". I see this a lot and this is what will make me quit.
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powerplay
Destrier
Posts: 28
Karma: 13
Pilot name: Power Play
League: Diamond
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Post by powerplay on Aug 8, 2017 18:45:47 GMT -5
Beacon runners are not a necessity when it comes to winning, so I'm not sure about increasing the bonus for beacons captures, but I do agree that -22 may be a bit much. Despite this, I think that most of us continue to gradually climb the leagues rather than fall, and when a player falls in the leagues, it normally seems occur from Pixonic making changes to weapons that affect the player's hanger's ability to compete rather than a change of skill level. "Beacon runners are not a necessity when it comes to winning" ? I don't understand how you can think this is true. I'd need some arguments. The way I see it: let's say we have an equally matched battle (same bots, same levels, same skills on both sides, I know it's improbable, it is for the sake of the argument), if a team is martially responding well to the attacks, do not makes too much mistakes and uses good strategy, if it holds two beacons during the whole 10 minutes... it loses. On the other hand, a team who strategically uses its resources (time, robots and amo) to keep three beacons most of the time will win. Also, the role of a beacon rusher is not only to capture beacons, it can also be to make the opponents lose time, which is a crucial resource if you want to win. But I deplore this kind of strategy is disappearing (or is disappeared) because it is not encouraged by the existing system.
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Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Aug 8, 2017 18:48:03 GMT -5
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Post by xXrobotrippinXx on Aug 8, 2017 19:07:43 GMT -5
Honestly I just take satisfaction in knowing I helped my team win.
I try not to pay much attention to the leagues and I never have a specific game plan. I have certain bots in my hangar I like to run 1st, 2nd, etc., according to certain maps and I prefer a support role but I just take it as it comes in matches. I'm not out to get X amount of beacons or damage. I just do what I think is going to help my team.
I grab beacons I know I can get, I shield my teammates when I can, I support them when I see them going in for a cap & I try not to mech out.
Some of my best rounds have come when I only had maybe 3k damage and 2 beacons but there was a critical decision or two that I made that helped my team win. Like slowly wearing down Anciles or spending 2 mins getting to and capping a critical beacon that had you not, your team may not have won. These things will not show up anywhere at the end of the game but I know I did them.
As frustrating as it is to feel like I'm on a team by myself and be on the losing side when I know my team didn't do ?poo-poo?, it's EQUALLY as REWARDING to me when I'm on a good team and helped them win.
If you are not in a clan, you may want to consider trying. If you are, maybe try squadding more? Or just try squadding with others you played with in random games that you think will be good teammates. This may at least help with the teamwork you seem to be looking for.
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powerplay
Destrier
Posts: 28
Karma: 13
Pilot name: Power Play
League: Diamond
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Post by powerplay on Aug 8, 2017 19:43:51 GMT -5
Honestly I just take satisfaction in knowing I helped my team win. I try not to pay much attention to the leagues and I never have a specific game plan. I have certain bots in my hangar I like to run 1st, 2nd, etc., according to certain maps and I prefer a support role but I just take it as it comes in matches. I'm not out to get X amount of beacons or damage. I just do what I think is going to help my team. I grab beacons I know I can get, I shield my teammates when I can, I support them when I see them going in for a cap & I try not to mech out. Some of my best rounds have come when I only had maybe 3k damage and 2 beacons but there was a critical decision or two that I made that helped my team win. Like slowly wearing down Anciles or spending 2 mins getting to and capping a critical beacon that had you not, your team may not have won. These things will not show up anywhere at the end of the game but I know I did them. As frustrating as it is to feel like I'm on a team by myself and be on the losing side when I know my team didn't do ?poo-poo?, it's EQUALLY as REWARDING to me when I'm on a good team and helped them win. If you are not in a clan, you may want to consider trying. If you are, maybe try squadding more? Or just try squadding with others you played with in random games that you think will be good teammates. This may at least help with the teamwork you seem to be looking for. You are the kind of player I would like to play with, and even against. The reason I will stop playing War Robots is because this kind of player is currently more and more rare exactly because the system is not rewarding this behavior, this fact is true even in a clan. I wish you go on having fun while ignoring leagues imperatives, I'm personally out and I'm sad about it. I would have like to continue to have fun with this game, but an important factor is the other players behavior and it is exactly what is breaking my fun right now.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2017 19:55:13 GMT -5
A few thoughts:
Some guys embrace and spend hours quitting games for those -22s. They want to stay lower to face even competition. -22's suck, but they do help balance the times when you are in over your head but get points anyway for being on the winning side. I think it works itself out to be honest. Just my opinion.
But some great points made above. In a game last night I took the left beacon on dead city close to the enemy spawn. The reds were staying behind walls, dancing around, and we were up 4-1 on beacons. The smart thing to do is to hold that beacon and keep the reds at bay, while we soak up the 4-1 advantage. But I get no silver for that. I get no league points. And its kinda boring. I am bristling with rockets, and I need them to go *boom* on some red's ugly mug. So the move I made was to jump into the closest group of reds raining Orkans on their craven butts. Damage is king. Embrace the damage. Be the damage.
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powerplay
Destrier
Posts: 28
Karma: 13
Pilot name: Power Play
League: Diamond
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Post by powerplay on Aug 8, 2017 20:01:22 GMT -5
I'd be curious to know your thought about this idea:
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2017 20:39:53 GMT -5
Total points have to be a net -0- per game. If I'm reading it right your proposed numbers would yield a net positive.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2017 21:07:17 GMT -5
Beacon runners are not a necessity when it comes to winning, so I'm not sure about increasing the bonus for beacons captures, but I do agree that -22 may be a bit much. Despite this, I think that most of us continue to gradually climb the leagues rather than fall, and when a player falls in the leagues, it normally seems occur from Pixonic making changes to weapons that affect the player's hanger's ability to compete rather than a change of skill level. "Beacon runners are not a necessity when it comes to winning" ? I don't understand how you can think this is true. I'd need some arguments. The way I see it: let's say we have an equally matched battle (same bots, same levels, same skills on both sides, I know it's improbable, it is for the sake of the argument), if a team is martially responding well to the attacks, do not makes too much mistakes and uses good strategy, if it holds two beacons during the whole 10 minutes... it loses. On the other hand, a team who strategically uses its resources (time, robots and amo) to keep three beacons most of the time will win. Also, the role of a beacon rusher is not only to capture beacons, it can also be to make the opponents lose time, which is a crucial resource if you want to win. But I deplore this kind of strategy is disappearing (or is disappeared) because it is not encouraged by the existing system. How many times have you watched 2 or 3 small robots on your team run around flipping beacons (often side by side) while the other team which is filled with more damaging bots moves forward, flipping the beacons back, holding them, and forcing heavy pressure on the rest of your team. Holding beacons wins games, not flipping them. Beacon runners are good for winning gold, not battles IMO.
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powerplay
Destrier
Posts: 28
Karma: 13
Pilot name: Power Play
League: Diamond
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Post by powerplay on Aug 8, 2017 21:24:29 GMT -5
Total points have to be a net -0- per game. If I'm reading it right your proposed numbers would yield a net positive. Thanks for this observation. I considered the bonus for beacon capture in this proposition (+6 in total). Do you think it shouldn't be considered? If yes, why?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2017 21:29:06 GMT -5
Total points have to be a net -0- per game. If I'm reading it right your proposed numbers would yield a net positive. Thanks for this observation. I considered the bonus for beacon capture in this proposition (+6 in total). Do you think it shouldn't be considered? If yes, why? I like the small beacon bonus, but if it's too large, you will get flooded with useless ecu cossacks every game as random blues. Remember to always imagine the worst case scenario for every change.
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powerplay
Destrier
Posts: 28
Karma: 13
Pilot name: Power Play
League: Diamond
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Post by powerplay on Aug 8, 2017 21:37:17 GMT -5
"Beacon runners are not a necessity when it comes to winning" ? I don't understand how you can think this is true. I'd need some arguments. The way I see it: let's say we have an equally matched battle (same bots, same levels, same skills on both sides, I know it's improbable, it is for the sake of the argument), if a team is martially responding well to the attacks, do not makes too much mistakes and uses good strategy, if it holds two beacons during the whole 10 minutes... it loses. On the other hand, a team who strategically uses its resources (time, robots and amo) to keep three beacons most of the time will win. Also, the role of a beacon rusher is not only to capture beacons, it can also be to make the opponents lose time, which is a crucial resource if you want to win. But I deplore this kind of strategy is disappearing (or is disappeared) because it is not encouraged by the existing system. How many times have you watched 2 or 3 small robots on your team run around flipping beacons (often side by side) while the other team which is filled with more damaging bots moves forward, flipping the beacons back, holding them, and forcing heavy pressure on the rest of your team. Holding beacons wins games, not flipping them. Beacon runners are good for winning gold, not battles IMO. Of course small robots are not meant for the bad overall balance between damage and health of this game (this is a whole other topic), and you are right, holding a beacon is way better than flipping it, but you first have to flip it before to hold and some player just don't because they are more focused on inflicting more damage. This is what I deplore in the current trend: players who just don't care about beacons. For me, a beacon runner is not a Cossack with an Ecu, it can also be a heavily armed Lance, as long as it is CLOSE FROM A BEAON. In other words, "beacon runner" is not about the hangar setting, it is about the behavior on the battlefield.
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powerplay
Destrier
Posts: 28
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Pilot name: Power Play
League: Diamond
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Post by powerplay on Aug 8, 2017 21:46:03 GMT -5
Thanks for this observation. I considered the bonus for beacon capture in this proposition (+6 in total). Do you think it shouldn't be considered? If yes, why? I like the small beacon bonus, but if it's too large, you will get flooded with useless ecu cossacks every game as random blues. Remember to always imagine the worst case scenario for every change. Would my proposition avoid this kind of scenario? Because if you focus on beacon capture, you'll get a malus because you havn't inflict enough damage. For exemple: team loses, first place beacons, last place damage, result: +5 -11 = -6 With the same exemple, but your team wins, you get +9. So you want your team to win and it will not if you don't have a good balance between damage and beacon cap. Am I wrong?
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Post by Firebeard on Aug 8, 2017 22:13:14 GMT -5
Why does the Scoring have to be zero sum?
Tankers are prevalent because of net-loss. Wouldn't it be preferable to have zero-gain?
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Post by BLYTHE on Aug 8, 2017 22:21:38 GMT -5
Personally beacons block my view of the reds while slaughtering them, giving the little ones a chance to flee. But I do allow myself the indulgence of standing over beacons and bathing in victory's glowing blue light.
Joking aside. I'd be up for a small reward for beacon capture. There are maps where constant beacon turning can win games (powerplant) especially when it's mostly heavies on the battlefield.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2017 22:57:22 GMT -5
Dun, dun, duh! It is I! Yes, -22 points sucks the big Kahuna. With that said, if you are constantly scoring lowest in destruction, and beacons are a waste, maybe you should quit. It would appear that you are not interested in winning, killing, doing damage, earning silver, earning gold, etc. Sooooo, either quit, or Shut Up and Play!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2017 23:17:43 GMT -5
Why does the Scoring have to be zero sum? Tankers are prevalent because of net-loss. Wouldn't it be preferable to have zero-gain? You have to net to zero each game, or you will either have everyone in champions league if you net positive, or everyone down in lower leagues if you net negative. You can't add or remove points from the system every game.
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Post by moody on Aug 8, 2017 23:25:11 GMT -5
Why does the Scoring have to be zero sum? Tankers are prevalent because of net-loss. Wouldn't it be preferable to have zero-gain? There is no net loss. Tankers are prevalent because of a flaw in the system which would still be there and exploitable even if both winners and losers got equal opposite scores. (it would take significantly longer to go down leagues however). Whenever a tanker goes down in league points, somebody else goes up. There are actually probably a good portion of us that are really in slightly higher leagues than we should be if everybody was playing the game to their fullest ability.
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Post by moody on Aug 8, 2017 23:25:58 GMT -5
Why does the Scoring have to be zero sum? Tankers are prevalent because of net-loss. Wouldn't it be preferable to have zero-gain? You have to net to zero each game, or you will either have everyone in champions league if you net positive, or everyone down in lower leagues if you net negative. You can't add or remove points from the system every game. Said it better than me before I replied!
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Post by amidf on Aug 8, 2017 23:36:06 GMT -5
Why does the Scoring have to be zero sum? Tankers are prevalent because of net-loss. Wouldn't it be preferable to have zero-gain? Not this again. You need your own thread for that topic. BTW, I keep confusing powerplay and Firebeard and I only just figured out why! -Amid
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Post by moody on Aug 8, 2017 23:40:12 GMT -5
Why does the Scoring have to be zero sum? Tankers are prevalent because of net-loss. Wouldn't it be preferable to have zero-gain? Not this again. You need your own thread for that topic. BTW, I keep confusing powerplay and Firebeard and I only just figured out why! -Amid I get you and BLYTHE mixed up. I think it's because of the thunder carnage....
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Post by 7iquid on Aug 9, 2017 0:50:27 GMT -5
"Whaaaaaaaat? Beee-cons? You mean you can capture beacons in this game? Well I wished somebody had told me...."
- the above quote from a Trebuchet Natasha in Diamond 1 iOS. Total beacons captured in entire game = 0 Total distance travelled entire game = 0m
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