I like this game

Well said solarflare87

OH Tay!

Or people could just not have the same opinions as you, which is completely acceptable by most people's standards.

Great post solarflare87. Even when I don't personally like a change they make, I still enjoy the game. I always have, and likely always will as long as I have the time to play. The only thing I can see changing that is the servers shutting off, or a better option coming out. I don't see either of those things happening soon. People rave about the concept of Battle Titans, but I'm not going to believe it until I see it in live server play. What I do believe, because I have seen it, is that this game is fun before and after every change. The changes require adapting, which sometimes people don't like. Myself included in some instances - I don't want to go away from rockets so soon, because I spend the last month finally bringing a bunch of them up to par.

Now, I have to bring up half a dozen new setups. Which will take time, and the game will likely be rebalanced again before I'm done. But then I'll have half a dozen more setups I can alternate between. And the next update will give me a few more. And eventually I'll have everything under the sun at usable levels. I'm starting to view that as more of an endgoal, rather than getting a meta hangar to max level. Not only is the meta always changing, but the top tier of the meta, no matter what it is, is always boring. That's been my only consistent gripe about this game, and it was easy to work around it. Just create a second account that I can use to play with low level equipment when I feel like changing it up.

It's totally normal to complain about certain characteristics of a thing, and still love that thing overall. People should keep that in mind more consistently when discussing and responding to others. I know there are a lot of people that complain constantly about the game. It's because they like and care about the game. I don't think there are many people on this forum that legitimately don't like the game. They just want it to become a better game, and everyone has different opinions on what will make it better. Bottom line is, it's a great game already. Always has been, always will be.

So whats your point? Never said anyone should have the same view point as me.. did I offend thee?

Since I was called out, I will respond to defend those like me. There is a lot of presupposing about those who criticize the game in the original post, and I think it is wrong on many counts. For instance, the game is not stressful for me, it is fun for me too. Criticism is not synonymous with someone being upset about something.

Some people want life to be sunshine and roses and think any type of criticism is toxic. Some of them go about roundly attacking those who criticize something (and here we are, this isn't the first time I've seen this). Others embrace criticism and love when people point out their flaws so they can fix them and use it to improve themselves. In fact, they don't even care if it isn't done in a nice way, because they don't care about what the other person thinks of them personally or care about improving that person's ability to not be offensive, they are focused on task at hand, improving whatever they are working on.  I know that is how I am when people criticize my work.

I have no idea where Pixonic is on that spectrum, nor can I control it. But I do know that successful people in life believe the latter, and live their life that way. I've worked with successful athletes and they have that trait. And I've worked with ones who refuse to listen to criticism (especially when it isn't delivered in a "nice" way) that have failed. There is a reason Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback ever, because he wants to be coached, he demands it. He knows without the outside criticism, he won't improve as much as he could.

I criticize this game because I love it (in fact I criticize everything I love). If I didn't love it, I wouldn't be here. While I'm sure Pixonic loves the people that talk about how great the game is, if they are interested in making it an incredible game, they are focused on the people who help them get there, and sunshine and roses doesn't do that. Just because someone criticizes the game doesn't mean they are trying to be toxic.

But maybe they should be nicer about it, right? That's odd... you gave Pixonic some kind of pass saying they were genuinely trying, they just might not be good at it. Why don't you give those who are criticizing some kind of pass too? They might be genuinely trying too, but don't have the social skills? But again you presupposed what they were trying to do, that they were trying to be toxic. You even said you weren't trying to be offensive here... maybe they weren't either.

What you said reminds me of the people who get so mad when someone cuts them off driving, you know, someone who cuts you off must be a jerk, have some personality flaw that caused them to do that. But if you cut someone off, you externalize it, because you had to get your child to the hospital faster or whatever, you had some outstanding circumstance that led you to do it, it isn't because you are a jerk. So, you didn't mean to be offensive with your post even though you admit doing so, but those people who are mean to Pixonic, they couldn't have tried not to be offensive like you and accidentally been offensive, because...? Well, you tell me why you are better than them and deserve a pass.

No really, I want you to answer that question. Presupposing... just don't do it.  We are all chill here, we all love War Robots. Just a little lesson in humility, take it or leave it.

But thank you for your criticism. I have considered what you said but rejected it, not because I am offended (successful people only care about what they think of themselves, not what anyone else thinks of them, you literally can't offend me), and not because of you. But because I love War Robots and I know War Robots needs criticism to improve, and even if it isn't put in the most pleasing way it is more useful than sunshine and roses.

I made the initial mistake of responding before reading the whole post, which I realized after reading what bronzeknee said. That prompted me to "re-read" the OP, and I'm a little embarrassed that I said it was a great post lol. Partially because it's not, and moreso because I responded to the first couple paragraphs without reading the rest. Oops.

Edit: Firebeard put how I felt pretty nicely. It started as a great post and spiraled into a pretty negative direction from there.

I like this a lot. But Tom Brady is the best QB ever. But it's based on achievements, not talent or skill. There have been so many quarterbacks that are better at the position over history. But nobody has won five SBs. That's what "greatness" is measured by. Take Aaron Rodgers. He is as good or better at every single aspect of the position than Brady. Accuracy and intelligence are on par, although I'd give a slight nod to AR on both. AR has a much better arm, can be accurate from any throwing position, is mobile, and can extend plays by 6, 7 or more seconds. He is a much better quarterback than Tom Brady. But he isn't a greater quarterback. He will need at least two more super bowls to be in the same conversation.

I'm not saying he's not great. Especially for the team he's done it for. But that's two "greatness" seasons. Tom Brady has five superbowls. And I hate Tom Brady. He is literally one of my bottom five least favorite athletes on the planet. But he has won five super bowls. And came back from 28-3 to win his last one.

There aren't many QBs in history that are as accurate at Drew Brees. But if you put AR, TB, or really any elite quarterback in a dome with decent receivers and hybrid running backs in an era where you're not allowed to touch quarterbacks or receivers, records will be broken. This era has been molded to produce record setting scoring. And on top of that, regular season records do not equate to greatness. Just ask the 73-9 Warriors who ended up as losers.

I absolutely hate Tom Brady, and I do like Drew Brees, but after last year there isn't an argument against him being the greatest quarterback ever. That doesn't mean he's the best quarterback ever. Being good and being great, in my book at least, are two completely different things.

bronzeknee  Okay, let's discuss.

1) I didn't mean to "call you out", I just referenced your thread because that's where I saw the videos.

2) I read the thread that I referenced of yours (at least up until where it was yesterday afternoon), and in it's context, I agree with you.  But then some of the comments got me thinking, and I had a bit of a perspective shift on whether it was really necessary to fight for a knife-fighters game or not.  Hence this whole thread.

3) I never said one shouldn't criticize the game.  I do, from time to time, and so does just about everyone.  What I addressed in my post was people who purport to ""lose faith" in Pix and this game", and also those who's criticism isn't constructive, it's just derogatory and (we'll get to this more later) mean. 

4) I'm going to choose to assume that this is not directed at me (even though it kind of seems like it is) "Some people want life to be sunshine and roses and think any type of criticism is toxic. Some of them go about roundly attacking those who criticize something (and here we are, this isn't the first time I've seen this)" because that would be presupposing, and I choose to believe that you wouldn't do that.

5) about toxicity... Criticism isn't inherently bad, as you established (and I agree with you), but criticism can be bad.  when it's not helpful, when it's just anger, then it becomes toxic.  I know next to nothing about sports, but I assume Tom Brady's coaches bring him criticism from a place of teamwork, from wanting the team to succeed?  I think it would probably be a different story if they were angry with him for every missed pass (or whatever. again: next to nothing ) and said "Tom! you singlehandely made us fail! again! I've lost faith in you because you're just in it for yourself. Greedy jerk, stop screwing over the rest of the team" 

6) I'd like to separate this one from the rest of the discussion, as I feel it's kind of different.  Has Pixonic asked for your criticism?  If they have, awesome.  If not, it's possible the feedback loop could be akin to disciplining someone else's child.  I assume (again with this *rolls eyes*) that Tom Brady doesn't just take instruction from just anyone, but only those who he knows are A) on his team (proverbially)  and B) people who know what they're talking about so as not to give him false instruction.  The reason I separate this from the rest is because it's more of an idea-matter, and applies less to the game at hand.  I think Pix should listen to our feedback.

7) Another kind of an aside.  "I know that is how I am when people criticize my work".  Wow. I have great respect for you in that.  I hope you know how rare of a level of character and resolve it is that you have.  I work in a creative field, and I sometimes make products that my bosses don't like.  They give me feedback/criticism and it can be a very painful process, because I put my heart into everything that I do.  I don't enjoy it.  But I do enjoy the result of it.  It hurts especially when it's hypocritical (all too often), but I'd venture to say that I grow more in those situations than in others.  To not care about what others think about you is an incredibly high and rare skill, I kind of don't believe that anyone is just that way, but it's something that we grow in if we choose to.  I don't hold people that I'm not responsible for to that standard.

8) Wow... I've answered like 1 paragraph >.<

9) This isn't super relevant, but the only time I even used the word criticism in my post was with regards to what people would say about me, and this post.

10) Ok, so this is sort of a theme throughout: "you gave Pixonic some kind of pass".  What I said was "quit being so mean to Pix".  I didn't say: "give them a pass", or: "don't criticize them", or even: "don't be hard on them".  All those things are ok.  What's not ok is dehumanizing them.  Propagating the idea that they're just out for your money, or purposely screwing players over - when we don't know that for a fact - is presupposing (and we both know about that).  And my opinion is that this is toxic and/or spreads toxicity.  It takes the discussion off the issues within the game, and puts it onto the character and nature of the people.  Ad hominem, if you would.  And though we do that a lot (at least in the USA, don't know about where you are) it's just not helpful.

11) this may be a bit repetitious at this point, but I didn't blanket "everyone who criticizes the game".  I brought up two specific mindsets:
     - Old timers who don't like where the game is now
     - People who feel like they've been "investors"
and I addressed each one of those, more or less.

12) There's a difference between being mean and being offensive.  In the context of this discussion, my being "offensive" was arguing against mindsets or ideas that others believe, whereas being "mean" wold have been arguing against the character and nature of the people who hold those mindsets.  Again with context (and back to point 10), "mean" is demonstrated as meaning Ad hominem arguments.

13) while I'm thinking about it, I said I stand by my points.  That doesn't mean I stand by your interpretation of my points.

14) "We are all chill here"  Are we?

15) Another aside.  Was all the bolded part yelling or some such?  This is not a backhanded criticism, or me trying to point out hypocrisy or something (I promise you it truly is not), but you seem offended... 

16) my entire thesis (as you know... I think...) was that I encourage people to enjoy the game as it is.  Not everyone has the maturity you do, to separate the criticism and sometimes toxicity on these forums and elsewhere from a genuine love for the game.  I spend most of my War Robots community time on Discord, and I see plenty of people who have worries and doubts about the game that they wouldn't have if they weren't informed how horrible Pix is...

I think I answered everything... but let me know if I didn't.



Firebeard

17) I think my other points cleared up the "rolling with the punches" thing... ?

18) What is War Robots? (not sarcasm, or philosophical bs; I'm serious.  You said "those who have fought to keep it what it is"... What is it?  Again, not sarcasm)

19) I'm not in a position to conjecture on what would have happened if Steve Jobs was a different leader than what he was, but 15% market share is enough to make apple the most 
profitable company in the world. (I know I said that already, but it's just so significant.) you'd think with Android having most of the rest of that share (at least as far as OS goes) that Samsung of whoever else could take that 85% had have massively more profit than Apple.  (As yet another aside, the numbers in the sub-categories for those companies are really interesting)

20) All of this is not condemnation... it's "criticism" lol... I'd rather say encouragement, but whatever.  And I try and hold a level of respect across the board, regardless of how I feel about someone in any way.  So I do respect them, but again, what is War Robots?



One more thought: I still know nothing about sports