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Post by Dredd77 on Dec 21, 2016 20:10:25 GMT -5
Hey folks! I've been posting to a new War Robots blog I started up, and posted a piece this evening on my Bronze experiences as of late. I loathe clubbers, but have been increasingly wondering how I compare to them as a player going on Week Three. Since we have no data to go on (just lots of anecdotes), I compiled data on over a hundred players I've randomly played with or against recently, and found some surprising results. I hope you find this useful or interesting! geparddiary.com/2016/12/22/club-dredd-a-statistical-perspective/
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Dec 21, 2016 20:45:31 GMT -5
Wordpress sucks. Not your fault. Your hanger image is broken. That's a long article to, gunna take me a bit but good reading so far, you've got style at least 403. That’s an error. Your client does not have permission to get URL /udG2HmH4Ox1-OrFeK7Ur0KCdnFGbNaqCZjC3MNefhWLuSeJWS81Lbh3UShDxeSPfETwdSwzdOCM8zyYcWzPtlQbm8mLrAO9TGNm-pI0RrmNOLLT-WudUjq_d8KdTMd-3wsKjzXcKpyU45MB_l6ZDjixOvGTJPd6OQ1XGWkuBgSG7RIoieFiqST2XDT2WfH4GroBBoc-tDfc3se_APmcNkTD2zloBro7-UyE5s_rFpw29Y7CxJqMLm-zkxoXCc-DNnVTMlD-cqbJlZknf2hA-GuJJ9M1cw8Pq-vwlaup3o6zJQ4an6lESTulM1dzbsbBSoRTnYZPppTtyIw4CqdeqY-gSTQbPX7xbzasV-GafrixZO9ZFjw5kqu94Oa2SXCiiSIAXLOXOL7QKFWx5SPxEIZTQcGO9hYiN_y4-alzxGfZcyjPDD4LzXdec-a54O0F2H0duk3FGorAYNkW5WIZYePRGDzga9K1w5uJjFjTbxSu2Eb8nYSj3hsGi7iHvdShmYnZ4KBnVwaBaTetB2hmg08wNOYgHs8BVZgJ_3_j5i-LSLWQebo80BX4ZOhNKeQhWqu7FBk-VuSvpMwPCFrIOq0sqbDKf6NDcnAEnD1qlqewOlp--98ldrBjLhMRZ7uPTTVFhZm3Xm7-Qnij0wL98iPZHfJ1qsKkkQMCA0ut9sDqEXZdzEqHk6ygVVFo5rIl_3_kECgDIiQUFB487=w1366-h613-l75-ft from this server. (Client IP address: [REDACTED IPV6]) Forbidden That’s all we know.
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Post by Dredd77 on Dec 21, 2016 21:15:07 GMT -5
Thanks! All that stuff's sort of above my head. Here's a tiny URL if that makes it any better. tinyurl.com/juyy884
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Pulse Hadron
Destrier
Posts: 85
Karma: 52
Pilot name: Pulse Hadron
Platform: iOS
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Post by Pulse Hadron on Dec 21, 2016 21:49:10 GMT -5
The link to your site works, it's 3 pictures there that don't show up. Only the table of bot percentages works. The URL for the table image starts "https://geparddiary.files.wordpress.com/", while the non-working image URLs start "https://mail.google.com/mail/". So you need to link to pictures actually hosted on Wordpress instead of gmail.
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Post by Dredd77 on Dec 21, 2016 22:23:10 GMT -5
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Post by Ѕπλκε✵Σψεs on Dec 21, 2016 23:12:09 GMT -5
Interesting read.
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Post by Strayed on Dec 22, 2016 1:02:43 GMT -5
Good read, just one problem. Gold tier isn't a snipe and camp fest, if anything, it's a lot more nerve-wracking than bronze tier. While one wrong step in bronze will cost you a bit of health, one wrong step in gold tier will send you hurtling through the sky.
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Post by BLYTHE on Dec 22, 2016 1:32:45 GMT -5
Good read, just one problem. Gold tier isn't a snipe and camp fest, if anything, it's a lot more nerve-wracking than bronze tier. While one wrong step in bronze will cost you a bit of health, one wrong step in gold tier will send you hurtling through the sky. I agree. In fact I go down to silver occasionally to get some R&R. EDIT: Good read, though!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Karma:
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2016 3:45:05 GMT -5
U have style, sir. I will definately read through this - I just need 3 morning coffees first On a sidenote, because you mentioned safaris - I thought for myself that must be hobby for rich ?firetruck?s who kill beautiful things for fun and because they have a small pecker. I since had to correct that thought. Infact, Safari tourism is the main reason why nature reservates around the globe still exists, and some of the most gorgeous animals are still around. Especuially in African countries I experienced a deep respect for the animals showed by the guides. A responsible guide will guide a rich ?firetruck? to a Jaguar -if he paid for one- but picking the oldest animal, that had already replicated... Uhm... totally OT, sry If you want to do something about your Shark thing, pm me. I had the same, one can get over it... those are fantastic creatures as well.
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Post by sochilli (Saltesers) on Dec 22, 2016 3:53:28 GMT -5
I will find you.
And I will give you the biggest bear hug ever.
Thank you so much for all the effort that article required, I soaked in every last word and infographic you posted... I'm in statistical love. Please numerically marry me.
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Post by Dredd77 on Dec 22, 2016 8:52:40 GMT -5
Good read, just one problem. Gold tier isn't a snipe and camp fest, if anything, it's a lot more nerve-wracking than bronze tier. While one wrong step in bronze will cost you a bit of health, one wrong step in gold tier will send you hurtling through the sky. I'm glad to hear it. Obviously, I have no firsthand experience there, so I have to go on what I've heard. I've played a couple times on Yamantau, and it's a mox of both our perspectives. Yes, a wrong step would send me hurtling through the sky- and it was usually from folks so far on the horizon I couldn't even see them.
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Post by Deadalready on Dec 22, 2016 9:44:11 GMT -5
I really enjoyed reading your articles/blog Dredd, I like how you saw the match maker and decided to try and break it down into numbers. It sounds like something I would try and do XD (take an unknown and make sense of it), respect!
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Post by jazzykat on Dec 22, 2016 10:03:30 GMT -5
My personal anecdotal experience is that before the holiday season there was a much higher percentage of clubbers. I think the article is fantastic but you should consider your sample size and see about collecting for 1000 games...
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Scorpio Snow
Destrier
Posts: 108
Karma: 47
Pilot name: [2wik] Scorpio Snow
Platform: iOS
Clan: Wiklings [2wik]
League: Silver
Favorite robot: Any bots counter Gepard at Silver
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Post by Scorpio Snow on Dec 22, 2016 10:15:56 GMT -5
Indeed very interesting articles. Kudos to all the efforts you put in there. My favorite line is about the shark. It's not because they're common, it's because they're completely 「fluffernutter」in suck. Nice.
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Post by lephturn on Dec 22, 2016 10:42:14 GMT -5
Great article Dredd77 ! As a newb I still feel like a clubber. Maintaining an 80% win rate is pretty nuts. I probably made a mistake getting 3 Gepards, where you spent the money on top weapons like the Zeus and Orkan. Having faced Cossacks with Tarans on them, I can't wait to have some of those. I think they key issue here is the match maker. It simply doesn't take higher level or more powerful weapons into account well enough. 3 level 6 Mags on a robot should be weighted much higher than 1 or 2. They are doing some averaging here and it makes it way to easy to exploit. They should simply take the highest number bot and/or weapon and use that for MM, with some modification for number of weapons and light/medium/heavy weapon slots. Light weapons are a 1x multiplier, mediums 1.25 and heavy 1.5x for example. Then they add the slot score together - but the calculation is run based on the highest weapon level in any slot. Another potential solution is simply limiting the system so that bots and weapons must be within 2 levels of each other always. They are going to have to fix this for the quick-change bots as some guys have already figured out you can run 2x level 12 weapons and 2x level 1 weapons and get placed much lower in the MM than you otherwise should with level 12 weapons.
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Post by Ѕπλκε✵Σψεs on Dec 22, 2016 11:12:37 GMT -5
Everyone should play as they want and as for now, it's all perfectly sanctioned by the Pixonites.
Come 2017 changes to MM might be coming so enjoy it while you can...
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Post by ᕲΣΣᕲƧ on Dec 22, 2016 13:03:29 GMT -5
I think the most interesting thing is that people expect everything to change with the MM update. I can't be the only one to realize it will take someone about a day to figure out a new dominant build. It will take others minutes to realize that guy is doing well with his build. Then 2 players will be running it and one or two more each game will understand that is the new best bot to "club" with. Within a week there will be hundreds of people running it. In a month thousands of pilots will have hangars full of that setup. And it will keep snowballing.
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Dec 22, 2016 13:15:07 GMT -5
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_systemI'm sorry, but the new type of MM that Pixonic is talking about does not work that way. I've suggested a hybrid system using equipment & performance, but from the few comments we've gotten from them on the matter, it sounds like they are leaning towards a pure Elo system. The new meta-builds will become much more related to play style than to min/max matchmaker gaming. The best build will be anything Heavy 12/12 and what works for you.
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Post by miatahead on Dec 22, 2016 13:17:19 GMT -5
I'd be shocked if Gep still wasn't the best bot for clubbing after they 'change' MM. Then again, I wouldn't be surprised if they made something else the best bot for clubbing, just to induce churn and more gold spending. Like Gareth, for example.
However, if the MM 'changes' go to pure ELO only...its maxed and everything else.
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Post by ShutUpAndSmokeMyWeed on Dec 22, 2016 14:07:20 GMT -5
Super insightful and quality stuff! I definitely enjoyed reading that; in fact I liked it so much I just posted it on the War Robots Forum's facebook page. Can't wait for more!
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Dec 22, 2016 14:26:16 GMT -5
Groan... sorry be a bit OT, but that little adventure is a great example why I stay the hell away from Facebook. Made the mistake of looking at some of the comments on the War Robots FB page. SMDH. I'm so glad the Devs took note of our fan-community, so much vitriol on FB... So to be on-topic, thanks Dredd77 for being brave enough to publish. It's contributors to the scene like yourself that give us such positive reputations.
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The Violator
Destrier
Posts: 63
Karma: 28
Pilot name: The Violator
Platform: Android
Clan: [(RT)]
League: Silver
Favorite robot: Gepard
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Post by The Violator on Dec 22, 2016 18:32:52 GMT -5
I think people are overreacting. Gold bots have advantages and they should. Anybody can buy or grind enough to get one and outfit it. Or they could buy thunders and schultz.
The real problem lies with Pixonic. You think you'd see all the "clubbers" if gold wasn't so tedious to obtain or so expensive to purchase. People farm to get better stuff. They want better stuff to compete at higher levels.
The only thing that needs to be fixed with it is the full hangers being allowed to play in low bronze.
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Post by goatking219 on Dec 22, 2016 18:33:20 GMT -5
I completely agree with your shark attack analogy, it's exactly what it's like. I only come across a few Gepphids, but when I do it's a real drag.
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Post by BLYTHE on Dec 22, 2016 20:37:48 GMT -5
I held off buying a Gep since I disliked getting clubbed when I was in bronze. It wasn't until I was in gold that I bought one just for the sake of having all the bots. In the hands of an average player, the Gep will have the advantage; give it to a lvl 30 high tier player and you're a one man army, carrying your team even if 2 of them are AFK and the rest are arty bots. It's a massacre, it's ridiculously easy, it's like beating up children. Go up to low silver and you can still take out 3 for your one. Use an aphid Gep on Yamatau and you can coral, contain the reds, while your teammates are forced to advance none of the action is coming their way for some reason.
I don't mind clubbers anymore, really. That's Pix's fault. People play this game for different reasons--some to win; others for the challenge.
Gold tier is the great equalizer I think. Sure, MM sometimes matches you against higher lvl'ed bots or wep but sometimes it does so in your favor so it's all right. But in the end, you rely more on skill than hardware: Trident Fury, use KWKs; shield bots, use splash; arty Natasha? Run for the hills!
IF, Pix does nerf the Gep, what happens to all the people with 5 Gep hangars?
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Post by sochilli (Saltesers) on Dec 22, 2016 20:55:39 GMT -5
Everyone should play as they want and as for now, it's all perfectly sanctioned by the Pixonites. Come 2017 changes to MM might be coming so enjoy it while you can... Am i hearing what I think I'm hearing? as in join the club?
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Post by Loop_Stratos on Dec 22, 2016 21:02:45 GMT -5
Gold tier is the great equalizer I think. Sure, MM sometimes matches you against higher lvl'ed bots or wep but sometimes it does so in your favor so it's all right. But in the end, you rely more on skill than hardware: Trident Fury, use KWKs; shield bots, use splash; arty Natasha? Run for the hills! But most hangers have either a midrange/sniper bot, not both.
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Post by BLYTHE on Dec 22, 2016 21:30:35 GMT -5
Naturally you can't plan for every contingency but the point is if you're in a clan then someone will be equipped to take a support bot out or you simply get good at ducking, timing their shots, or flanking them.
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Post by Ѕπλκε✵Σψεs on Dec 22, 2016 22:38:37 GMT -5
Everyone should play as they want and as for now, it's all perfectly sanctioned by the Pixonites. Come 2017 changes to MM might be coming so enjoy it while you can... Am i hearing what I think I'm hearing? as in join the club? Considering some of the crazy scores of late, I.e. 800k vs 200k, I'd say I'm already "clubbing" in silver, in [2wik] we just don't club in bronze...
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Post by 808gman on Dec 23, 2016 2:02:38 GMT -5
Enjoyable read, thanks for compiling the info. Did you have time of day statistics? It seems like some are more clubber prone than others. I have different hangers like everyone else, one of which is a maggep clubbing setup. I resisted for a while. Then started using schutze and thunders, but after running into so many geps I started adding one gep, then another until I had a clubber's hangar. I have a hangar with all lvl 1 cossack/lvl 3 punishers to mess around with and I ran into a tri pinata gep which I was able to take out with the cossack since it can dodge the missiles. If they were to limit me from playing with my level 1 cossacks, just because I'm a level 30 player that wouldn't be a good thing. People will always find ways to get an advantage, it's up to pixonic to decide whether it's detrimental to the game or not and balance it somehow. Now when I'm seeing all gep clans coming at me in red, I'm wondering if I need to join that.... Now that would be boring and detrimental to the game . -g
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Post by vigusfatbelly on Dec 23, 2016 11:02:30 GMT -5
Great read Dredd. It correlates to what I've noticed as I play, so it's good to know that someone out there is taking the time to show this stuff. BTW.. you *destroyed* me the other night when I was playing. Seriously.. you took out my entire hanger...it was pretty awesome. I saw your name and I came gunning for you. Back to the drawing board for me with my hanger set up.
As far as the clubbing phenom goes.. I had to start over, so I bought a Gep this time. I played a bit with it, and realized....it's just not fun. I like my low level light bot set up the most. 1 Desty, lvl 4, with two punishers at Lvl 6 1 Cossak, lvl 4, orkan at lvl 7 1 Schutze, lvl 4, Thunder at lvl 6 1 Cossak, lvl 4, Taran @ lvl 4
I actively will hunt any MagGeps that I see on the other team, because it's just fun to mow them down with a Desty or my schutze.
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