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Post by Dredd77 on Dec 11, 2016 14:36:23 GMT -5
I've been sort of curious about the role of real money in this game lately. Based on my experience with freemium games, player's attitudes towards spending RM seem to broadly fall into one of four brackets.
1. Players who see what they want and spend whatever it takes to get it 2. Players who spend some money on the game, generally within the range of what a "real game" would cost. 3. Players who enjoy a game but prefer not to spend any money on it 4. Players who refuse to spend money on it, and look down on those who do
Personally, I fall into bracket #2. Obviously YMMV, but if I enjoy a game, I like to support the developers and will usually spend between $20-$50 over the duration. For the record, I'm approaching two weeks in this game, and have spent $20. I got the $5 new player offer, the $5 Gepard player offer, and bought $10 worth of gold so I could buy another Gepard (non-clubber Gep pilots, represent!).
What's interesting about War Robots is that while other games make it really easy to 'drop a little bit here, a little bit there,' don't see a lot of incentive for doing so (even though my personal desire to do so is actually greater than usual, because I'm loving this game).
Lephturn and I had a great chat in another thread about how the game seems to rush us new players through the game too quickly, and one point I forgot to make there that's relevant here is that Premium awards an experience bonus. Any kind of low-level "Premium" offer is often the default "support the devs" mode for many, but I've found that going through levels FASTER actually disincentivizes me to opt in. I don't want to rush to level 30, especially if that somehow currently or potentially could impact how I look to the MM. A 25% XP bonus potentially means a non-premium player of the same level has had about 20% more battlefield experience than me. XP bonuses in non-PVP games make a lot more sense, but this isn't one of those games.
So I decided to look through the list of premium stuff, and get a sense of what it costs to buy, in real dollars. This isn't meant to be comprehensive, given the ability to transform Gold into Silver or WSP, although as I understand it the exchange rate is poor on Silver and becomes increasingly inefficient for WSP the more times you do so in a single day.
So in ascending order, here are all the Gold sinks I can think of, with an approximate RM amount (approximate because there's no fixed rate of exchange between RM and Ag; the more you spend in a single transaction, the more 'bonus Ag' you get. I'm using the basic 1000Ag = $1 for the sake of consistency)
$1 Third Hangar Slot $7.50 EE Aphid weapon $7.50 Gekko XX weapon $10 Fourth Hangar Slot $12 Gepard bot $12 Orkan weapon $12.50 Gareth bot $15 Ancile weapon $15 Zeus weapon $15 Create Clan $25 Rogatka bot $25 Galahad bot $50 Fury bot $50 Lancelot bot $50 Fifth Hangar Slot
Looking at the list, it really jumps out to me that spending RM on this game is fundamentally different than others I've played. For instance, I played Eternium: Mage and Mystics a fair bit (basically, Diablo if you've not heard of it). Gems are the RM currency (though like War Robots you can earn them slowly without paying), and you can do all sorts of things with them- from upgrading abilities to buying more storage space to crafting items or lifting level restrictions. A hundred little ways to nudge to to spend.
Here, it's almost refreshing how difficult it is to tap into 'impulse money.' The prices are high for a lot of things- I, for one, struggle to imagine paying $50 to nab a Fury on a whim- but on the upside, these virtual things are a lot more 'permanent' than Eternium's virtual things. I'll always have that Fury, but lord only knows where all those gems I bought are. In that sense, I can see the War Robots model feeling less 'wasteful,' unless you just hate whatever it is you bought. But I don't see myself just 'on impulse' nabbing some expensive bot. I'd rather slowly build up experience in each bot I have before acquiring and learning another.
I can't tell, though, if that's a feature or a bug.
So if you're not Premium at $10 a month, what (if anything) would make you more likely to consider it? Or spend RM on the game in general?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2016 15:23:04 GMT -5
I fall into category #2, with the additional caveat that I have played MMOs for many years, so $10- $15/month is also not unreasonable to me. To date I've taken the two early $4.99 offers (a Gep and some miner bot that gave me 60 Au/day for a month) and a pair of Orkans at $5.99 each that were in some other offer.
I have easily spent more just to purchase other games, and the devs have made a game I enjoy, so I don't have a problem with it.
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Post by Dredd77 on Dec 11, 2016 15:28:58 GMT -5
Good point about MMO's. Same here, so now am wondering if I'm throwing in $10 a month, better to buy gold or Premium.
How long into playing did the Orkan offer arrive?
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Pateras
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Post by Pateras on Dec 11, 2016 16:11:00 GMT -5
Im also #2 but a bit less. I have spent less then 40$ in like 16 months.
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Post by RightOn on Dec 11, 2016 16:21:27 GMT -5
I was feeling generous and had 2500au and 13k WP burning a whole in my pocket so I spent 20, 10, and 5 to speed upgrade (even through the ag parts) and buy 2k more WP. I was happy, 35 is for Pixonic and a good game and I had my Gareth and Raijin leveled up immediately.
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Post by ᕲΣΣᕲƧ on Dec 11, 2016 17:36:42 GMT -5
I haven't spent any RM yet. I'm hoping I can avoid it. But I guess we'll see what my silver situation looks like when as I approach lvl 12 bots. So far I have an almost complete silver hangar and am near completing a 6/9 hangar with 2 WSP bots and Brit bot that kick me into low gold.
I've been able to earn more silver than I spend, even while wasting gold to speed upgrades. I just don't see any other gold purchase I am very interested in. I have 5 slots, 3 geps, a rog, a gala, 3 aphids, 3 orkins. I wouldn't hate another aphid gep I suppose and possibly another gala. A fury is just not my style. I'm not sure I need a lance either. Perhaps that will change as I advance through gold.
I'm not against spending money or supporting the devs. I'm thankful others do. I just don't want to spend it if I don't have to.
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Post by Strayed on Dec 11, 2016 18:00:43 GMT -5
Get premium, it will help tremendously when you need the silver to complete higher tier upgrades. 1 is not very common. 2 is somewhat common amongst higher tier people who want to support the game. 3 is very common. 4 is extremely uncommon since there are no 'real' p2w bots out there except for maybe the gepard in lower tiers. And even then, a skilled player with a thunder Schutze can still defeat it.
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Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Dec 11, 2016 18:42:21 GMT -5
I'm probably a 1... only thing I don't spend money on is speeding upgrades and WSP.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2016 19:13:57 GMT -5
Good point about MMO's. Same here, so now am wondering if I'm throwing in $10 a month, better to buy gold or Premium. How long into playing did the Orkan offer arrive? I don't remember. Sorry. I've been playing for maybe 6 weeks, so not too long.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2016 19:27:52 GMT -5
Good point about MMO's. Same here, so now am wondering if I'm throwing in $10 a month, better to buy gold or Premium. How long into playing did the Orkan offer arrive? Au until you get all of the weapons/bots you want (Orks/Gals at tge very least) then premium because Silver reward nerf
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Post by blognio on Dec 11, 2016 19:34:02 GMT -5
Usually when i put some money in the game I have no sense to really do anything else even when there is more
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Dec 11, 2016 20:38:49 GMT -5
I spent $20 on my Android account for Au because I gold-farmed my way to the halfway mark for a 5th slot and just got sick of it... Score one for the psych impact of the freemium business model. Then, I got a new iPad and spent $5 on the discount Gepard, now that I know what gold-farming is really about. Personally, I see it as spending a little cash on enhancing my entertainment. The cash outlay has enabled me to 'club' guilt-free on iOS, because that account is new and I flat out don't have access to everything just yet. I still win quite a lot for a n00b in disguise, so nyah-nyah. Meanwhile, back on my Android account, I finally balanced out my hanger and I am doing way better with my top level bots. The 3 Gepards I spent earned (not bought) Au on the Android side on have been mothballed for now, 'cause I can go wreak havoc on iOS all I want too, mwahahaahahaa.
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[AurN] perfectlyGoodInk
Aurora Clan Moderator
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Favorite robot: Bishop from Aliens, although WALL-E is a close second
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Post by [AurN] perfectlyGoodInk on Dec 11, 2016 21:32:22 GMT -5
I'm #3. What would convince me to change would be if Pixonic was a starving indie developer working out of their parents' basement. Instead, they're a company with almost $1M in revenues that just got bought for $30M. With three mouths to feed in addition to my own on a 30-hour-a-week job, our game budget isn't all that (our gaming system is a PS2), and I have a long list of worthy causes I wish I could be funding that I have ranked ahead of a game developer.
If others find it worth their money, it's their money to decide with. But I'm afraid that there are more #1 types than anyone wants to admit. This game is hella addictive and seems to be playing lots of little psychological games to try and win your dollars.
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Post by Deadalready on Dec 11, 2016 21:40:23 GMT -5
Cheapskate here: I love the game and all but off all the things I could throw money at, I'd like to feel like there needs to be more value before I buy. Spent a few dollars on pumpkins during the Halloween event and would be quite happy to spend more money if any of the sales fitted my needs. One of the problems I see, is that earning gold is kinda like RPG progression and if I buy it, then I'm kinda missing out the fun of "progressing".
Though mostly I'm like "$30 could buy me _____ instead", in the last week I've spent money on: Entry to dance events Kickstarter Expensive dinners Lots of coffee Dance lessons Snacks Lockpicks
I'm not adverse to throwing money on frivolous things XD, give me a discount on AU and I'll drop some $$$ instantly!
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[AurN] perfectlyGoodInk
Aurora Clan Moderator
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Favorite robot: Bishop from Aliens, although WALL-E is a close second
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Post by [AurN] perfectlyGoodInk on Dec 11, 2016 21:54:55 GMT -5
Cheapskate here: I love the game and all but off all the things I could throw money at, I'd like to feel like there needs to be more value before I buy. Spent a few dollars on pumpkins during the Halloween event and would be quite happy to spend more money if any of the sales fitted my needs. One of the problems I see, is that earning gold is kinda like RPG progression and if I buy it, then I'm kinda missing out the fun of "progressing". Though mostly I'm like "$30 could buy me _____ instead", in the last week I've spent money on: Entry to dance events Kickstarter Expensive dinners Lots of coffee Dance lessons Snacks Lockpicks I'm not adverse to throwing money on frivolous things XD, give me a discount on AU and I'll drop some $$$ instantly! Once you have lockpicks, doesn't most of that become free?
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Post by Deadalready on Dec 11, 2016 21:57:01 GMT -5
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Post by Strayed on Dec 11, 2016 21:58:11 GMT -5
Why not a bump key though?
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Post by Deadalready on Dec 11, 2016 22:18:31 GMT -5
strayed I actually bought lock picks to keep give me something to work on over the end of year break as all my hobbies/pass times close up. I'm no good at "fine control" things so I'm no good at it...
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Post by Dredd77 on Dec 12, 2016 16:11:06 GMT -5
Reviewing my phone getting ready to get a new one, and came across some other Freemium games I'd whiled away the time and wallet with. One of these is Fallout Shelter, another was FF Exevius. Both of these have a "random" model, where you can buy containers (with RM in Fallout, or "crystals" in FF) that contain random stuff. Mostly recources, but the occasional rare treasure.
Wonder if something like that would work here, or if it would even be wanted. A 'dropship container', containing a range of things like Gold, Silver, and possibly WSP to things like weapons or bots (at the rare end).
Probably too gimmicky, but if the question is "what would get me to pay more into the game," that's not a bad answer personally.
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Post by Deadalready on Dec 12, 2016 19:17:16 GMT -5
Reviewing my phone getting ready to get a new one, and came across some other Freemium games I'd whiled away the time and wallet with. One of these is Fallout Shelter, another was FF Exevius. Both of these have a "random" model, where you can buy containers (with RM in Fallout, or "crystals" in FF) that contain random stuff. Mostly recources, but the occasional rare treasure. Wonder if something like that would work here, or if it would even be wanted. A 'dropship container', containing a range of things like Gold, Silver, and possibly WSP to things like weapons or bots (at the rare end). Probably too gimmicky, but if the question is "what would get me to pay more into the game," that's not a bad answer personally. Fallout Shelter is quite a good game (though maybe the game aspect is lacking) I found the micro management quite addicting but eventually reached a point where lag meant my games were unplayable.
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Vicious Jester
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Post by Vicious Jester on Dec 13, 2016 12:12:47 GMT -5
i'm #2 with a caveat.
i cannot stand money slingers. they are idiots of the highest order. life is broken enough already and those people should be spending that stupid amount of money on something makes a difference in this world.
there should be a real money limit that boosts you to a special tier for people who sling money at this game. People who spend say $20 per month on gold for this game should not be playing in the same tier with people who've spent $3000 in one month no matter what robots/weapons they have.
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Post by miatahead on Dec 13, 2016 12:38:24 GMT -5
Fundamentally, any *proper* game uses RM to essentially shorten the grind. IMHO, I would not play any game seriously or spend time on one that has a skill/item that cannot be earned, but only bought with RM. That is BS, IMHO, and I won't buy into that. I'd rather have them just charge me for the game.
I limit my RM to roughly the cost of a traditional game. The whole freemium concept is just a change in the revenue model for companies to make more money than the traditional buy a game model. Again, I'm not buying into that.
Gaming is a multi billion dollar business because they basically rip off kid's lunch money, plain and simple.
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Post by [AurN]Zenotaph on Dec 13, 2016 12:46:37 GMT -5
Ahem, I think, I go with 5. I would spend some money, but can't afford it right now. But Ehen, I would buy some gold, to get my fifth slot sooner...
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Post by ᕲΣΣᕲƧ on Dec 13, 2016 12:49:32 GMT -5
Fundamentally, any *proper* game uses RM to essentially shorten the grind. IMHO, I would not play any game seriously or spend time on one that has a skill/item that cannot be earned, but only bought with RM. That is BS, IMHO, and I won't buy into that. I'd rather have them just charge me for the game. I limit my RM to roughly the cost of a traditional game. The whole freemium concept is just a change in the revenue model for companies to make more money than the traditional buy a game model. Again, I'm not buying into that. Gaming is a multi billion dollar business because they basically rip off kid's lunch money, plain and simple. I was playing a game called Kill Shot Bravo for a while this summer. It had the exact situation you describe. Gear you could only get by buying it. And it seemed like every 2 weeks something new and better came out. It gets to you point where you can't even play the single player mode if you don't buy new gear constantly. The players actually revolted and boycotted the game until the devs agreed to slow the release cycle.
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Post by lephturn on Dec 13, 2016 14:39:18 GMT -5
Fundamentally, any *proper* game uses RM to essentially shorten the grind. IMHO, I would not play any game seriously or spend time on one that has a skill/item that cannot be earned, but only bought with RM. That is BS, IMHO, and I won't buy into that. I'd rather have them just charge me for the game. I limit my RM to roughly the cost of a traditional game. The whole freemium concept is just a change in the revenue model for companies to make more money than the traditional buy a game model. Again, I'm not buying into that. Gaming is a multi billion dollar business because they basically rip off kid's lunch money, plain and simple. Agreed that done right - $ = time and not in-game power. World of Tanks Blitz is where I come from (I host Tank Boom! - the WoT Blitz podcast), and they are for the most part free2play and not pay to win. That's what I expected here, but War Robots is much more pay to win. The other really weird thing is that I blew through to level 20 SO FAST. That's just crazy. I'm in the "spend $20-$50 to support the devs" camp with Dredd77. The really weird part is that my problem is I leveled up too fast, and I don't care about premium because I don't need credits. Right now my biggest problem is that I leveled up too fast and maybe too far on some of my bots. I took that initial $5 deal for 3 days of premium or whatever, but I moved up so fast I have no desire for more. My biggest emotion around this is "woah woah... slow down". I don't even know what all these bots I see are or what the weapons do. The proper balance to me is that I have a grind of some sort that is slow enough (and structured enough) that I'm forced to learn the bots and weapons and even maps in order to progress. Yes - $ should be a shortcut in terms of time, but the default "level curve" is so fast that I'm not interested in buying anything else. Well, if they'd offer me another $5 Gepard loaded with level 5 Pinatas again I'd snarf that up. Buying bots is pointless for me right now because I don't have good weapons to put on them yet. The next issue is the silly WSP - a third currency in the game. Yeah you can use gold to get WSP faster. But... that's stupid. You ALREADY have 2 currencies in the game, why in the world do you need another one? The Workshop should be a place you go to upgrade, learn about, and develop your weapons - not just another timed release currency. For example, once I reach level 20 I should be able to research weapons and unlock them. Not just as a currency but as a tech tree. So let's say I want Aphids... I should have to first level a Spiral to at least say 5 and do X amount of damage with one first. Once I meet that criteria then I can go into my workshop and start my team researching Aphids. If I have premium time my research should just be faster. I'm disappointed that the gold and WSP bots and weapons are just flat better - but you can earn them through game success so I guess that makes sense. They just need to fix MM (which I gather is coming) and balance some of the weapons and I think they are in pretty good shape if they can flatten the curve out. Right now new players fly through the early levels too fast, get guided in-game to buy bigger bots, and proceed to get stomped into the ground by clubbers. Not good for player retention and long term customer value.
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johnnygrizz
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Post by johnnygrizz on Dec 13, 2016 15:25:39 GMT -5
I guess I would fall in category 2, or 1.
Before coming to this game 3 months ago, I was part of the same No#1 Clan in-game for about 18 months. I would say the average member of our clan spent any where from $2,000 to $3,500 to get to that level, to hold a spot in the clan. Weekly purchases would average $50 to $100 (ongoing) depending on the deals and tournaments. The top 20 competing clans all comprised of at least 20 members would also spend about the same if not more to try and compete with us. I left after lack of game support, messed up tier systems, and the daily grind of having to do 4 battles every 4 hours, each and every day.. I got a bit burnt out and decided to take a break from the clan/ game.
Anyhow, I decided to try this game and I found out pretty quick i liked it. When I decided to start upgrading and get a bit more serious about the game, I looked at the costs and found it much cheaper than my last game addiction. So far I've spent maybe a few hundred..maybe more, maybe less..doesn't matter. I'm here for entertainment and what I've spent in game total is still less that what I would spend to take my wife out for a nice night, or a weekend of deer hunting, or..you catch my drift. I'm not sure why folks are a bit down on others that spend some cash here. I figure this is for entertainment purposes.. and in life, as in game we find everyone's entertainment budget will be different.I'm sure I will get some folks telling me about the etiquette of the game and how my money makes me evil, and my bots arn't nearly as good, or I just suck because I've spent some cash..oh well...lol
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Post by lephturn on Dec 13, 2016 15:56:22 GMT -5
Wow - $50-$100 per WEEK? That is ... well if it's worth it to you and you've got the $ more power to ya. What game was that? As I like to tell my wife: Women, gambling, booze, and drugs are all WAY more expensive and destructive vices so maybe she should be happy I just muck about with games on my iPad. At least I'm at home and very unlikely to contract a disease or gamble away our house.
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Post by Dredd77 on Dec 13, 2016 15:57:36 GMT -5
I'm not sure why folks are a bit down on others that spend some cash here. I figure this is for entertainment purposes.. and in life, as in game we find everyone's entertainment budget will be different.I'm sure I will get some folks telling me about the etiquette of the game and how my money makes me evil, and my bots arn't nearly as good, or I just suck because I've spent some cash..oh well...lol I see you've met viciousjester. My personal take is that people spending money is why other people have a free game to play in the first place. Businesses aren't charities, after all. Those looking for an intelligent, thoughtful and more cautionary take about the morality of freemium games would likely appreciate this recent post by Dr Richard Garfield, the inventor of Magic: the Gathering. www.facebook.com/notes/richard-garfield/a-game-players-manifesto/1049168888532667The short version is, he feels "whales" are exploited by the games they pay for, but makes a distinction between freemium and "skinnerware." Skinnerware is a more predatory game experience that looks to hook players by appealing to addictive behaviors. He has five criteria for recognizing skinnerware, which I viewed War Robots through. 1. Power-ups in a single player game (doesn't apply as War Robots is multiplayer only) 2. Energy bar, which limits amount of times you can play. War Robots does not have this system in place. 3. Speed ups. This is available in War Robots through the use of Gold, but I think it's moderate. For instance, I'm staying firmly in Bronze tier, and most of the time I'm not leveling anything up- let alone speeding up the process. Big difference, I think, between the War Robots model and "Farmville" 4. Cosmetics. Yup, skins. War Robots checks this box. That said, my VERY NARROW experience doesn't see these as very important to many players. 5. Advantage in multiplayer. Moderate, but not abusive to me. Yes, people can sink money for a MagGep hangar, but this game seems to do a very good job of making things attainable without spending money relative to other games I've played. I'd be interested in hearing others' takes on this, too.
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Post by lephturn on Dec 13, 2016 16:08:08 GMT -5
Skinnerware - good term. They have ruined pretty much every good racing game on iOS.
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pj
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Post by pj on Dec 13, 2016 16:33:20 GMT -5
Wow - $50-$100 per WEEK? That is ... well if it's worth it to you and you've got the $ more power to ya. What game was that? As I like to tell my wife: Women, gambling, booze, and drugs are all WAY more expensive and destructive vices so maybe she should be happy I just muck about with games on my iPad. At least I'm at home and very unlikely to contract a disease or gamble away our house. Lephty is that you? I played Blitz prior to coming here and would drop about $50 a month there. Here, I've dropped less than a $100 in the past 6 months. What I've discovered is that yes, the real world money spent will give you an advantage at the lower tiers but it's slight. It's offset by those players who've invested their time and energy levelling their bots and weapons up. As you rise higher in tiers, you'll really start to feel the pain unless you have a long term plan. Rush to lvl your bots to quickly and you'll be outclassed by those players with the wpn levels 2+ higher than yours. If you immediately unlock slots, you'll also feel the burn as you get outmatched by higher tier reds. Pixonic could make more money if they had better marketing or more impulse buying opptys but I notice they don't do this as often. A prime example is the recent Halloween event with the pumpkins. The pumpkins were a bonus currency that would allow you to unlock a free box once you had earned 10 pumpkins. Prizes ran the gamut from weapons to bots and included AU & AG gear. That made the impulse buys more appealing since you could in theory spend $2 and end up winning a $50 bot.
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