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Post by Dredd77 on Dec 9, 2016 13:15:37 GMT -5
All games have their etiquette, and I've already found War Robots is little different. However, I haven't seen much discussion on the act of kill stealing here (searching only pulled up two threads where it was mentioned, but never a topic).
KIll stealing is generally regarded as poor sportsmanship in most games, because most games tend to reward the kill more than the contribution leading up to that kill. However, I'm curious as to what people's thoughts are with it here in War Robots, given the following:
> Kills don't factor into any battlefield metric that results in Gold > Kills ARE tracked as an "average kills per 50" in your player profile.
So...do kills matter, in a way that would see kill stealing as a breach of etiquette... or are they largely a cosmetic conceit, and not worth worrying about?
I'm a week or so into the game, and here's what I've thought.
I play an ambush style, mainly a couple of GepPins, so with that high burst damage and long reload time, wounded bots are my preferred prey. While I understand we all like to see higher numbers on our kill tallies, I'm not especially worried about kill stealing. To me, I'd rather finish off a wounded foe so my teammates can take less damage from it, and get a jump on their next objective. In other words, playing as a whole rather than a collection of individual players. I'm delighted when someone swoops in and finishes off a bot I've been working down, because a) go you! You get an extra kill, and b) I can now move on to the next victim without having to deal with this one.
Now if someone's on the very verge of a kill, and we're far from other action sometimes I'll let him finish it if he's in good position to do so. But my nightmare scenario is, I see someone working down a kill, stand back to let them have it, and they get skied by their prey first. Better not to take chances for a stat that doesn't seem to have much direct bearing.
I'm open to the possibility that this mindset could make me appear a complete, kill-stealing gloryhound 「illegitimate child」. So I figure I'd take the pulse of the community.
Thoughts?
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Neg0Pander
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Post by Neg0Pander on Dec 9, 2016 13:26:29 GMT -5
I don't think there's much concern about kill stealing. Damage total is the major ranking factor, so kill are just for braggin maybe.
The way I see it, I'd prefer the guy I'm fighting to die sooner, rather than later, no matter who kills him so that I (a) Don't take any more damage than necessary and (b) can move on to the next target ASAP, whether that's a mech or a beacon.
The biggest advantage of killing a lot of bots is that the sooner they mech-out, the sooner you win the match, presuming you won't win on beacons (which you should).
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Post by Muhlakai on Dec 9, 2016 13:27:28 GMT -5
KIll stealing is generally regarded as poor sportsmanship in most games, because most games tend to reward the kill more than the contribution leading up to that kill. However, I'm curious as to what people's thoughts are with it here in War Robots, given the following: > Kills don't factor into any battlefield metric that results in Gold > Kills ARE tracked as an "average kills per 50" in your player profile. So...do kills matter, in a way that would see kill stealing as a breach of etiquette... or are they largely a cosmetic conceit, and not worth worrying about? Personally, I'm more concerned about dealing massive damage than whether I get an individual kill. Obviously, it's more fun to make he kill, but my #1 concern is that the Red is off the field and not hitting my team or taking beacons. Additionally, DB/RDB setups benefit from having folks "steal" a kill since they might not be able to fire again for a while or even probably prefer to unleash a load on a healthier bot for more damage/effect. I'd much rather see a Blue steal my kill and go do other useful things than hang back and hope the Red doesn't get away from me or cap a beacon in the mean time. #TeamGoals
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Post by [ധ¡к¡] oDDD on Dec 9, 2016 13:27:54 GMT -5
Kill count means nothing to me, when I'm in my Aphid gep and if I hit someone and there is just a sliver left, and teammates in the area of that bot, I let them finish it. Mainly my thinking is, if I can find another target for my next salvo I will be doing more good than using it to just finish off a few K health. Softening targets for plasma bots and letting them Polish targets off is part of the game. If someone rushes to a target that is clearly being taken down in good fashion just to launch a full salvo so they get a kill count is only harming the team. So depending on the bot in playing, I either am help mopping up softened targets, or doing the softening, never really think about going for kills. Just the win.
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Post by josette2 on Dec 9, 2016 13:28:30 GMT -5
You know why no searches come out? Because of 2 reasons 1. Nobody cares (doesn't offer you extra gold or silver) 2. Game mode has always been TEAM capture the flag not deathmatch.
Also 1 more thing I'd like to point out, how would you know if your team mate didn't need help if you can't see their HP. As I see it not helping your team, be it kills or capturing beacons is bad sportsmanship.
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Dec 9, 2016 13:31:34 GMT -5
No such thing in this game Concentration of your team's fire is a critical strategy, especially once you're in squadding clans in the high-end tiers. The kill count is purely cosmetic and for the most part I don't think anybody really cares about it. Peeps do care, however, if you ignore some grasshopper of a Cossack with a sliver of health and allow them to take a beacon when you could have finished them off. So in a way it's actually the opposite of your fears, it's not considered kill stealing, it's more like finishing an NME off so the team can move on to the next target.
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Vicious Jester
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Post by Vicious Jester on Dec 9, 2016 13:40:57 GMT -5
I don't think there's much concern about kill stealing. Damage total is the major ranking factor, so kill are just for braggin maybe. The way I see it, I'd prefer the guy I'm fighting to die sooner, rather than later, no matter who kills him so that I (a) Don't take any more damage than necessary and (b) can move on to the next target ASAP, whether that's a mech or a beacon. The biggest advantage of killing a lot of bots is that the sooner they mech-out, the sooner you win the match, presuming you won't win on beacons (which you should). wow.. someone should take this post and turn it into a mandatory tutorial for every player in game. 1. beacons, beacons, beacons. 2. kill at beacons, don't chase unless you chasing from a beacon 3. beacons, beacons, beacons. 4. if it looks like the other team is getting bottled up at the spawn point fall in and help kill.. now!! 5. always watch for beacon changes. or .. beacons, beacons, beacons #TeamGoals
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[AurN] perfectlyGoodInk
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Favorite robot: Bishop from Aliens, although WALL-E is a close second
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Post by [AurN] perfectlyGoodInk on Dec 9, 2016 13:46:38 GMT -5
Yeah, if my teammate has a situation under control, I'll trust them to finish the job while I find the next highest priority target. But if the low-health enemy bot has been particularly dangerous, I'll pile on just to make dang sure. I've made the mistake of prematurely writing off low-health bots, only to see them still inflicting damage in the same bot later in the game.
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Post by ᕲΣΣᕲƧ on Dec 9, 2016 15:13:03 GMT -5
I see taking their kills as helping them in many situations. If you have a RDB Griff and just shot your rockets you're standing there defenseless for a short period of time. I can't just run by without helping while a teammate is getting attacked. The quicker that red is destroyed the faster we can both move on to another red or a beacon.
As ?oDDD? said, shooting a weapon like an aphid or a pinata is sort of a waste if a plasma or gunship bot is around to finish off a couple of HP. A few shots from them won't affect them as much as me using even a single aphid that does significantly more damage than is needed. Very often with a clan squad I'll target the bots with the most HP and others will finish them. Working in sub teams of aphid and mag with this system works extremely well. It also has the benefit of being able to punch through physical and energy shields. It takes so long to destroy an energy shield and bot with aphids, pins, pinatas, etc while plasma can just own them. A mag can shoot a rhino until their thumb is sore pretty much without doing anything while a rocket weapon will damage them. I'd rather launch it at a target that will get me the most damage. Shooting 2 aphids to destroy an energy shield to score one hit is just silly unless it is absolutely necessary. Then by the time you reload their shield has regenerated. And your using missiles to take their shield again. Of course playing with competent players that you know can finish helps.
If I'm with randoms I'll waste the weapons to make sure the target is destroyed.
Everyone I play with is at least as experienced as I am. Most have way more time into the game than I do. LOL it's kind of silly having 4k wins and being the noob in the group. Anyway, no one has ever complained about kill stealing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2016 15:23:41 GMT -5
0 kills, 5xxk damage, 5+ beacons > 10 kills 100k damage,0 beacons any day.
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TRon
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Post by TRon on Dec 9, 2016 15:51:31 GMT -5
Winning is the goal. Getting kills is a useful step in accomplishing the goal. I don't consider any kills to be "mine", though of course in the process of winning matches I make lots of kills.
Having said that, I just re-registered here since I think the forum engine changed. On the old forum, I did start a "best kill ratio" topic that was very busy with screenshots as proof. The game used to have a post-match summary screen that showed both how many kills you got and how many mechs you lost. I think the best was 0/17. I personally never did better than 0/14. Kills are just nice trivia, though.
Winning is the goal and I like how now the game shows your win %.
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Post by boomsplat on Dec 9, 2016 15:52:07 GMT -5
The only thing that matters with kills are: 1. Bragging rights outside the game as the game tracks max kills in a match for you....but not something that many care about because you can drop to bronze and wipe out hoards of red bots without much skill 2. Blue team getting an equivalent number of kills as red bots' lives.....so meching the red team out, another great way to max damage and winning the match....our preferred route to victory.
On comms, we'll coordinate fire on red bot threats using gekks, spirals, etc, especially on bots that require teamwork to take down quickly. I don't think I've heard anyone contend who killed what bot. As others have pointed out, max firepower to eliminate threats is a virtue that allows all of us on blue to live longer.
Cheers!
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Post by sochilli (Saltesers) on Dec 9, 2016 16:50:25 GMT -5
As a midranger who only does damage in bulk, I prefer a plasma bot to steal my kill and clean up so I don't have to waste another unload to remove a threat.
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Post by moody on Dec 9, 2016 16:51:13 GMT -5
If this were a thread on beacon stealing I bet there would b a lot more controversy. I hate having slogged 3/4 the way to a home beacon only to have a stalker or gepard flash by me and get it - having not yet gotten the second side beacon,
As somebody mentioned. If I am standing out in the open in a RDB griffin and I have just shot my load at a red with a sliver of health left. I 'want' somebody to come in and finish him off.
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Dec 9, 2016 16:59:44 GMT -5
Little known factor on beacon capping and liberation, every bot standing inside the capture trigger area will get credit for it when the circle indicator completes a change. The only way to really 'steal' a beacon is to make it there way ahead of your team mates.
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Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Dec 9, 2016 17:00:24 GMT -5
Little known factor on beacon capping and liberation, every bot standing inside the capture trigger area will get credit for it when the circle indicator completes a change. The only way to really 'steal' a beacon is to make it there way ahead of your team mates. this is little known... I can't take this anymore
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Post by BigBear on Dec 9, 2016 17:06:03 GMT -5
I have lost count of how many times I have been thankful a teammate has jumped in and finished off a red who has only just survived my rocket salvo,just having one weapon can still cause you unnecessary damage while you wait for a reload.Its team work not stealing and the more it happens the sooner reds are dead and beacons are blue.
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Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Dec 9, 2016 17:13:05 GMT -5
I have lost count of how many times I have been thankful a teammate has jumped in and finished off a red who has only just survived my rocket salvo,just having one weapon can still cause you unnecessary damage while you wait for a reload.Its team work not stealing and the more it happens the sooner reds are dead and beacons are blue. this. So such this.
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Post by Deadalready on Dec 10, 2016 0:19:07 GMT -5
I have lost count of how many times I have been thankful a teammate has jumped in and finished off a red who has only just survived my rocket salvo,just having one weapon can still cause you unnecessary damage while you wait for a reload.Its team work not stealing and the more it happens the sooner reds are dead and beacons are blue. I've lost count of how many times I've died waiting for my weapons to reload because an enemy only "just" survives. 10+ seconds is a long time to wait vs a plasma/thunder tearing into ones armour. If I hold my bot together for another battle it's often enough for me to kill another red or more, but those seconds between reloads is enough to be eviscerated. If you're a camper/support put pressure on the reds attacking your allies! EDIT: Given a choice about getting a kill or holding the beacon+keeping my bot the choice seems pretty easy.
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Post by Prowler on Dec 10, 2016 3:58:56 GMT -5
I don't care about kills. I do like to take down pilots with "killer" in there name.
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Post by moody on Dec 10, 2016 4:21:55 GMT -5
Little known factor on beacon capping and liberation, every bot standing inside the capture trigger area will get credit for it when the circle indicator completes a change. The only way to really 'steal' a beacon is to make it there way ahead of your team mates. I was very careful with my wording. I know I still get credit in the trigger area. I am talking about in canyon for example where you have been walking for 15 seconds and a late dropping gepard ignores all that work and goes out of its way to steal it off you, then either ignores the one on the other side that it could have gotten as easily, or gets that afterwards which your griffin has no chance of reaching. All this time I could have been slogging to the centre.
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Post by zeus on Dec 10, 2016 4:58:41 GMT -5
Please kill steal me, especially when they are before me shooting my face off.
I had a fantastic game where a db griffin tagged along with my db griffin and killed whatever was left from my salvos. So many dead bots lying around that double beacon choke point in power plant.
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Post by sochilli (Saltesers) on Dec 10, 2016 5:24:27 GMT -5
Please kill steal me, especially when they are before me shooting my face off. I had a fantastic game where a db griffin tagged along with my db griffin and killed whatever was left from my salvos. So many dead bots lying around that double beacon choke point in power plant. PDB or where you both really DB's...?
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Post by zeus on Dec 10, 2016 7:27:16 GMT -5
Please kill steal me, especially when they are before me shooting my face off. I had a fantastic game where a db griffin tagged along with my db griffin and killed whatever was left from my salvos. So many dead bots lying around that double beacon choke point in power plant. PDB or where you both really DB's...? I'm 7.5 db, missing an orkan, the other was a full db. I dont use pdb, since I don't have two orkans. So I tend to hit and run rather than stay to end the fight unless they are really low.
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Post by Divine Thunder on Dec 10, 2016 8:08:52 GMT -5
I don't think there's much concern about kill stealing. Damage total is the major ranking factor, so kill are just for braggin maybe. The way I see it, I'd prefer the guy I'm fighting to die sooner, rather than later, no matter who kills him so that I (a) Don't take any more damage than necessary and (b) can move on to the next target ASAP, whether that's a mech or a beacon. The biggest advantage of killing a lot of bots is that the sooner they mech-out, the sooner you win the match, presuming you won't win on beacons (which you should). wow.. someone should take this post and turn it into a mandatory tutorial for every player in game. 1. beacons, beacons, beacons. 2. kill at beacons, don't chase unless you chasing from a beacon 3. beacons, beacons, beacons. 4. if it looks like the other team is getting bottled up at the spawn point fall in and help kill.. now!! 5. always watch for beacon changes. or .. beacons, beacons, beacons #TeamGoals I actually liked this. Hit the dislike by mistake.
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Post by Divine Thunder on Dec 10, 2016 8:11:49 GMT -5
Oh, OP, I believe you have an answer to the lack of discussion on kill stealing, we really do not care. Damage and beacons are what matter, , not who gets the last shot. That is unless you are trying to accomplish your kill x number of robots task.
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Post by Thunderkiss on Dec 10, 2016 8:53:36 GMT -5
There is no such thing as kill stealing, only teamwork. If the target has all weapons intact at a fraction of original health, that opponent is DEADLY. Deadly things need to die.
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Post by ᕲΣΣᕲƧ on Dec 10, 2016 10:03:22 GMT -5
Little known factor on beacon capping and liberation, every bot standing inside the capture trigger area will get credit for it when the circle indicator completes a change. The only way to really 'steal' a beacon is to make it there way ahead of your team mates. I was very careful with my wording. I know I still get credit in the trigger area. I am talking about in canyon for example where you have been walking for 15 seconds and a late dropping gepard ignores all that work and goes out of its way to steal it off you, then either ignores the one on the other side that it could have gotten as easily, or gets that afterwards which your griffin has no chance of reaching. All this time I could have been slogging to the centre. Here is my thoughts on this: if a slow bot is trying to cap one beacon, I don't have much trouble capping it first. First, you're slow, you may not cap anymore beacons for the whole game. If I'm in a faster bot I'll most likely get at least another one, maybe 2 or 3 more. You taking that one could be the difference between 5 more Au and no more Au. The example you used, center beacon on Canyon just happens to be in the path I often take. So even if I don't intend to cap beacons, it is in my way. If you want to cap beacons, use a bot that get to the beacon first. If I ignore another beacon, it's probably because I was the first one across the bridge and have 3 reds shooting at me while you're slow bot is still crawling along. When I say your I mean that generically not you specifically. Timing can also come into play. If it's power hour, I may cap one beacon and ignore another to maintain a 3 to 2 ratio so I have a longer time to do damage and earn medals. If it's not power hour, I may ignore beacons totally unless they are necessary to win the match because I don't really care about gold much at this point. While there are still gold purchases I want, I have most of what I'll need for the near future and someone else can probably use it more. In the thread about the dog, the OP there mentions a month for 2k Au. I got 5k Au for my 5th slot in about a week and a half. I'm not bragging. I'm not a great player. I just have much more time to play than most do and I don't mind sharing. It isn't always a conspiracy to steal the beacon.
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Dec 10, 2016 11:11:21 GMT -5
Uhhh, not trying to pick on anybody, just being my usual encyclopedic self. There's a thread on common game courtesies with brief mentions of allowing slower bots to catch up with the faster bot you are piloting so both bots can share the capture point. Many valid points here based on the strategic idea of "GET THE DAMN BEACONS ALREADY" because this is a "point-domination" style CTF game. That said, I agree with moody in that he is describing total 「wee-wee」 moves, the opposite of being courteous.
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Post by sochilli (Saltesers) on Dec 10, 2016 16:59:14 GMT -5
PDB or where you both really DB's...? I'm 7.5 db, missing an orkan, the other was a full db. I dont use pdb, since I don't have two orkans. So I tend to hit and run rather than stay to end the fight unless they are really low. PDB: Mag & Tarans DB: Ork & Pinatas RDB: Pins & Tulumbas
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