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Post by Firebeard on Apr 25, 2017 4:19:47 GMT -5
Firebeard I actually don't have any issue with contradictory stands or positions. However when they are made without complete facts, it gets disturbing. Worse still is that while your observations might be valid from certain perspectives, you yourselves have attempted to do the exact same thing that you have accused the members of the roundtable to be: presumptive and assuming that you speak for the majority. It is understood that the majority remains silent and that there are many times that the we hear the outspoken minority. It is also true that many do not follow the wiki forum or Youtube. However, it is also true that the percentages have moved a little bit since Pix linked the forum in-game. You statement "this implies that all questions were ascertained in-house" is simplistic at best as we opened up the forum and had threads dedicated to asking people to give us ANYTHING they wanted to be brought up. Numerous things were requested and if you had read through them, you would have seen the trend. If you had disagreed with them (which is your right) THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE SAID SOMETHING! However, with hindsight being 20/20, YOU ALLOWED the "vocal" majority (of the forum) to make their gripes known, vote for their reps and send them on their way, only to then complain that you were note being represented. You had every opportunity to make your case known and you could not be bothered. That being said, Pixonic has very limited ways to garner the data required. FB has become incredibly toxic and is even worse than the Rant Section of this forum. They have released surveys... they required folks with an in-depth knowledge of the game to feed back, so who were they supposed to turn to? Mind you, the majority of the players playing are in the silver and gold leagues and are unable to give a proper perspective of the macro-picture. You might say that the forum is a drop in the ocean and you would probably be right. However, it is probably the only qualify-able large community of players that Pixonic has the ability to draw on without being dragged into a FB cancerous slagging fest. Finally, it was Pix's decision to draw parties and representatives in this way, not ours. As such, they are the ones who will have to bear the consequences of the feedback they receive. Might you suffer as a result? Perhaps, but even you have to blame Pix for that. The most saddening part of this is that all I have heard from you has been criticism of how you felt represented, but there have been no solutions given from your end. It has literally become an intellectual exercise and debate about the fact that you did not feel represented by the folks of this forum. I'm sorry you feel that way, but you had your chance to voice your opinions and you blew it. You cannot blame others for that. Thank you for a concise response. But I believe you have taken my Posts out of context. I was trying to point out that the manner in which the case for MM was presented - failed. They let emotion get the better of them which degenerated the conversation into verbal banter. I had seen only one Thread with a Questionnaire and the questions were chosen. Do I feel unrepresented, yes. Should I have thrown my name into the proverbial Hat? No. I would not have been chosen, regardless. It was repeated over and over that they represented the majority. That was an unprovable statement and that was where I took exception. Also, I never opened with that remark. It was implied by others to which I challenged their assertion. Anyways, thank you for being reasonable. Please Lock this Thread as it will assuredly just cause more outrage and invoke potentially inappropriate responses.
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Post by War Child on Apr 25, 2017 4:24:38 GMT -5
Conversations without emotions are not conversations,they are just words floating in the air...
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lotfh
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Post by lotfh on Apr 25, 2017 4:32:14 GMT -5
With the man hours spend on writing this thread we could have solved all pixonics problems by now.
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Post by SuperHero on Apr 25, 2017 4:45:07 GMT -5
As War Child inferred, I don't think it's possible to eliminate emotion from the conversation, especially since games are meant to be enjoyed. However, I thank Firebeard for not being offensive nor inflammatory in the way he has responded, though we might not agree with him. I will not be locking the thread. However, I would ask that all to turn our focus to the OP's original topic at hand.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2017 15:34:53 GMT -5
Well, this is fascinating. I wasn't even going to look in this Thread but the Notifications were too many, so I did - regretfully. Evidently not. It does appear you have become emotionally involved on your objectivity, otherwise, you would not feel the need to respond at all.
There seems to be something fundamentally wrong when someone who has an opposing view is attacked for pointing out that their argument is flawed. But let let me make some points, anyway: #1: There were NO public Polls or links to such. This implies that ALL questions were ascertained in-house. You can provide NO evidence that demonstrates your viewpoint is that of the majority. Only that you have Polled or Surveyed areas of particular interest. First, we have been discussing the problems in the forum in about every section, since leagues began. When the round table subject came out, there were multiple threads requesting what we wanted to address. When there is an election in the US, you may get a 30% turn out. Well, that means the majority of that 30% made the decision. Those that didnt vote are pathetic. Those that didnt give input to the round table prep, are lazy, or apathetic, dont care, or think they have nothing to contribute (this part is sad). We pretty much covered it all. So where you you in all of this? In the end, the questions to which were dealt with at the round table were given to us by PIX - no in-house. #2: Having a media channel with a following does not constitute credibility. It simply means you can address more people than the Forums. It also means that you are limited in your ability to be open-minded and voice impartiality because you need to address your Subscribers lest you lose your "following." You are figure-head, nothing more. You were chosen by your Followers not the Community. If you have a following, there is a reason that is so. Here, it is because, your channel/work is helping people play. As far as "The community, FB is a community, so is YouTube and its followers, etc. More that just this forum were present.#3: You have no idea how Pixonic operates. Your futile attempts to sway Pixonic to conform to a pay schedule that suits you is utter lunacy. Pixonic is extremely reasonable in their pricing. If you are unable to afford the cost of playability then don't believe yourself to be in a position to demand a rate change. Neither do you. No way to know it was futile either, as time will tell. BTW - you are offering a subjective opinion right now#4: Walking War Robots has approx. two million Players across global Servers. What was the percentage of those Players not affiliated with the Wiki or Youtube that agree with your position? .. Please provide evidence. Its War Robots, and can you provide evidence that there are not more than 2mil? We dont know what the position of others is/was. We were there to represent our respective groups. The roundtable was not a secret either. Also, the people representing all of us, were presenting our problems, as they were not typically facing them.
#5: Your failure(s) to understand how my opinion can be Objective vs. your opinion being biased is beyond my control. You are simply moving further and further away from being able to be taken seriously. Let's drop it. Two way street, a mirror, an isomer. Then drop it. You cant though, cause you are emotionally tied up in trying to force your opinion. Your objectivity checked out long ago.#6: I sat through a 2-1/2hr. temper tantrum that was wrapped up in a Sales-pitch. Even afterwards, you continued to smear Pixonic. Do you honestly believe that you had any impact with that type of behavior? Let alone this attack upon someone who, plays the game but does not agree with you. I believe your attitude in this Thread has shifted the public perception of you. You are dealing with Russians (slavs), you dont just tip toe around, and go all passive. We disagree with you in general. As far as believing in the change in public opinion, thats something you believe (w/o) facts, so subjective again. Oh, yea, perception is subjective too.
In closing, let me say this to those who can't stand to see their War Robots Role model(s) critiqued: If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the Kitchen... To those that are here to troll, maybe you should stay out of our house. Now, do you think it is possible to not respond to this thread anymore, can you deal with that challenge? Im betting not.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2017 15:48:37 GMT -5
Thank you for a concise response. But I believe you have taken my Posts out of context. So first we are subjective (something we didnt deny), now we dont understand, we are taking things out of context, cause, evidently we just dont get it.....right!
I was trying to point out that the manner in which the case for MM was presented - failed. They let emotion get the better of them which degenerated the conversation into verbal banter. Since we just had the meeting, and anything planned or discussed will take time, provide evidence that there was a failure. Did you ever think that PIX offered to have the meeting because there are so many problems? Maybe they are nervous, even scared, what might happen if they dont get it together. Maybe it was pure PR.I had seen only one Thread with a Questionnaire and the questions were chosen. Do I feel unrepresented, yes. Should I have thrown my name into the proverbial Hat? No. I would not have been chosen, regardless. It was repeated over and over that they represented the majority. That was an unprovable statement and that was where I took exception. There were multiple threads. So maybe you didnt read all of them, or spend enough time on the forum. Your attitude of "entitlement" and being "disenfranchised", is a joke and a lame excuse. It does tell me something about who and what you are though. But,...I will not go there. Plenty of people have been jumped on for things. I created a crap storm, for saying you could deal with tri-mag geps with Pattons. Specifically I said I could. Most cant, not my problem. So you are no martyr, you are not the sole person to be singled out. Get over yourself.
Also, I never opened with that remark. It was implied by others to which I challenged their assertion. Anyways, thank you for being reasonable. Please Lock this Thread as it will assuredly just cause more outrage and invoke potentially inappropriate responses. Cut and run? Taking your toys home cause you dont want to play?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2017 16:04:24 GMT -5
I made simple Post about my opinion of the "talks." It was the responses to that Post that started this whole "flame war." I defended my position and was attacked and insulted for my efforts... and, Yes $50 for a Mecha is par for the course. I've spent $100's for less. Pixonic is reasonable. I am firm in my grasp of the lingo as I have my undergraduate in Business/Administration. Just because I'm an Ironworker does not mean I'm uneducated. You started to troll, so stoking the flames, didnt help your cause. Just because you are an ironworker, does not make you stupid. Having a BA in BA, doesnt impress me much, but, well, theres a few reasons for that. There is a saying though, "educated beyond ones intelligence".
Or did they want a comprehensive position of the Player base on the MM? I seen No Polls regarding specifics and only heard, "my opinion" which demonstrated that no outside surveys were taken - that destroyed your credibility. Also, why was no one who feels opposed to your views included in the talks? Again a subjective opinion, as you have no proof. Now for poops and giggles, lets say you are right. I say better to have credibility and lose it, than never have any at all.
Also, next time - if there is a next time - I hope to be included. I wouldnt waste our time, or yours. Wont happen.
I didn't put my name in because I presumed that the Representatives would be unbiased. Clearly, I was mistaken .. Thats the first correct/intelligent thing Ive heard out of you. Dredd has expressed in the past that he doesnt have all the problems, and anger, many of us have toward the game and PIX, yet he represented those of us who do - and some of us want blood (well sorta )
Save the excuses, the rationalizations, and just walk away like you told us you would,.......if you can
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Post by Dredd77 on Apr 25, 2017 16:10:02 GMT -5
+DethHilt+ At this point, I'm actually coming to believe that this individual is trolling for attention rather than a sincere person with a conflicting viewpoint. The entitlement of something for nothing is a little too overdone, but it was fun while it lasted. Time perhaps better spend elsewhere?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2017 17:03:38 GMT -5
You got it Judge!
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Post by Firebeard on Apr 25, 2017 17:31:31 GMT -5
WOW
I'm not going to be dragged into an argument. Your personal attacks are telling in and of themselves. Calling someone a Troll when that person who is inferring it, goes through older Posts and twists the facts to suit their own convoluted argument, is really not worth the effort.
But this is beautiful: ["Also, next time - if there is a next time - I hope to be included.
I wouldnt waste our time, or yours. Wont happen."]
.. that confirms everything I wrote to be true.
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Post by 0ppressor on Apr 25, 2017 17:37:16 GMT -5
WOW But this is beautiful: ["Also, next time - if there is a next time - I hope to be included. I wouldnt waste our time, or yours. Wont happen."] .. that confirms everything I wrote to be true. All it confirms is that you've made at least one more 'enemy' than friend in this thread. I suspect there are more than just the one, but would not want to be accused of anything.
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Post by Dredd77 on Apr 25, 2017 18:01:04 GMT -5
As the OP, this thread has clearly gone well past its original intent, turning into this instead: Clearly the individual is seeking attention, so I'm going to lock the pantry. To those who had constructive input, many thanks!!!
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