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Post by Firebeard on Apr 23, 2017 23:57:52 GMT -5
I know exactly how to fix the " Tanker" issue .. because I know exactly where is problem is. Ahh, there it is, good ol' fashioned envy. "Why did they listen to those morons, when they should be listening to ME!" I'm glad we could get to the bottom of this before I headed to bed. (Pro tip: if you want to be heard, Firebeard , be a voice) Envy? You really know how to overstate your own importance. I can see the root of the issue. Just because you can't, you shouldn't believe yourself more capable. You've demonstrated that you cannot hold a conversation and have resorted to insults - the last bastion of the Defeated. This exchange is over...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2017 0:13:01 GMT -5
Hey Dredd, I have this thing I like to do. I like to look up words in the dictionary. The reason, is words can have different meanings, can be applied in multiple ways, plus there are other words or phrases that convey the same meaning. So if one is objective, they don't let personal opinions interfere. Merriam-Webster also referred objective to mean "open minded" Everybody has an opinion. So I guess you and I, and any others like us cannot be open-minded because we have opinions. Then again,..........don't think so.
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Post by ewing411 on Apr 24, 2017 0:13:33 GMT -5
Pix had some leading questions shows they've been either been discussing this and/or paying attention to someone on the outside. I'm kind of torn between being happy that they are fishing for ideas on important issues and disgruntled over missing out on those random gems. Then again the amount of static that normally fills freeform might have not fitted into five minute segments. Reguardless the mere fact they asked that one question above gives me hope.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2017 0:27:33 GMT -5
Better to live with hope, and have it go south in the end, than to be hopeless all your life
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Post by War Child on Apr 24, 2017 0:35:06 GMT -5
Mr Dredd,Mr Firebeard,why don't you should PM each other at how to fix the MM.As Firebeard stated,he knows how to 'fix' the MM.It would also be better that he should have some form of cantact with Pix,and as we all know,what dredd stated was true.Be part of the insider program and do something.
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Post by 0ppressor on Apr 24, 2017 0:35:17 GMT -5
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Post by SuperHero on Apr 24, 2017 0:36:20 GMT -5
So your opinion is objective because you have only played leagues, and others opinions are subjective because they have play the old MM and leagues? Your opinion is uneducated, and you speak ignorantly. You have nothing to compare leagues to. How can you know what the problem is, and how to fix it? You never played the old MM. You say they wanted to correct the current issues. Ever hear the phrase, you don't know where you are going, until you can see where you have been? The old MM is part of how we got here. You can't just omit it from the equation. BecauseI have nothing to compare it to makes it Objective. If I compared it, I would have a biased opinion and my opinion would therefore be Subjective. I know exactly how to fix the " Tanker" issue .. because I know exactly where is problem is. If the OP cannot take criticism of his own statements, then what right does he have to critique others? .. I've been following this and was going to just keep quiet since there was a mod involved already. but this is ridiculous. First..... Definition of round-table discussion: Round table is a form of academic discussion. Participants agree on a specific topic to discuss and debate. Each person is given equal right to participate, as illustrated by the idea of a circular layout referred to in the term round table. Participants have the right to so WHATEVER they want in the context of the topic. Regarding you being objective: being objective requires you to know ALL the facts of the situation before being able to give a proper complete and OBJECTIVE observation. Without having anything to compare it to actually means that you do not have the ability to be objective even you wanted to because you do not have all the data or the experience. As a result, you are actually deluding yourself into thinking you are being objective when in fact you are the most subjective person here because you do not have all the data and facts. It is ok to have opinions counter to whatever was being presented at the round table. But to say that the folks were not being productive is just wrong, especially considering that these folks have more experience with this game combined that some full clans do. It has nothing to do with youtube channel or whatever, but do not forget that Pix INVITED many of these folks to this discussion because they valued their input. More so, many of these folks are not even directly "suffering" as a result of the current MM changes because they are already maxed and are Legends. But yet their are voicing concerns for others. And make a note that many points were unanimously agreed upon. I was there at the roundtable, you should have seen the amount of text chatter that was flowing as the folks shared, 90% all agreed with whatever was being spoken. In conclusion, I would advice caution in being so presumptive and thinking you have all the facts just because you heard the whole discussion and also not deluding yourself into thinking that you have objectivity. With your lack of knowledge of the macro picture, you are actually the most subjective of the bunch.
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Post by Firebeard on Apr 24, 2017 0:55:13 GMT -5
I have ALL the facts about this current system. If I compared it, that would be Subjective and a Comparative ..
A Roundtable discussion is a Topic open to argument. A presentation of facts. What happened then was nothing more than a hit piece to Pixonic's position.
I would have gladly participated but the questions that were chosen by the 'Representatives' were cherry picked as they were sympathetic to their interests. Nor was anyone Polled or Surveyed who is inline with Pixonic. Also, the 'Representatives' that were chosen were adversarial and therefore did not represent the entire Community. Not a single person even touched upon the core issue. Saying, "I hate MM" repeatedly does not fix the system. Either does offering changes that would cost Pixonic revenue.
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Post by Dredd77 on Apr 24, 2017 1:03:35 GMT -5
Dude, you didn't even put your name in the hat. Here you are with "ALL the facts" and you didn't even bother to try. Just another keyboard critic, easiest job in the world.
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Post by Firebeard on Apr 24, 2017 1:08:22 GMT -5
I didn't put my name in because I presumed that the Representatives would be unbiased.
Clearly, I was mistaken ..
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Post by Dredd77 on Apr 24, 2017 1:13:07 GMT -5
Let other people do the work. Got it.
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Post by SuperHero on Apr 24, 2017 1:19:52 GMT -5
How can something be objective without all the data?
Many folks WERE presenting facts. Do take note that this is still a game where human bias and emotion are part and parcel of the situation as well.
And you last part regarding the "questions being cherry picked" exposes your complete ignorance of the overall situation. ALL the questions were not cherry picked by reps, but by Pixonic themselves. And solutions to the MM WERE presented by at least 2 folks if you were listening.
Finally, the at least 2 reps were actually voted into the roundtable by members of this exact forum. The biggest fear that every single rep shared was that they would be the sole dissenting voice against Pixonic and were surprised that everyone else felt the same. Just because you are NOT adversarial towards Pix does not make you the majority. Just recently FB had a movement by all the War Robots players in China where they planned and executed a boycott of War Robots for 24 hours to protest the changes and current state of the game.
Polls were opened up in this forum to give a chance for everyone to voice what they would want to be brought to the table by the reps. Please do go and read those.
Suggestions were given to even HELP Pix increase their revenue so I dont know what you were listening to.
I love this game if not I wouldnt be here. However, a lot of improvement is required. Being a moderator and clan leader in dialogue with multiple leaders has allowed me to have a reasonable pulse on the community at various stages of the game. Dredd is also part of many of those chats. As a results, the probability is that we have a better sense of the current mood and pulse of the game than you.
I would be curious to know how long you have been playing this game and your current league and levels in order to ascertain and understand why you are liking it.
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Post by ou812gr8m8 on Apr 24, 2017 1:52:32 GMT -5
Good grief, this thread went sideways fast. I'd just like to thank Dredd77 and shaolinrogue for representing us, and the others who put the event together. I hope Pix got some good feedback and make some positive changes.
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Post by [apotheosis] on Apr 24, 2017 3:12:14 GMT -5
Good grief, this thread went sideways fast. I'd just like to thank Dredd77 and shaolinrogue for representing us, and the others who put the event together. I hope Pix got some good feedback and make some positive changes. This, so much this.
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Post by Divine Thunder on Apr 24, 2017 5:36:31 GMT -5
I would put my 2 cents in but i think, Super Hero covered it.
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Post by Divine Thunder on Apr 24, 2017 5:54:59 GMT -5
But, from my engineering experience, i once had an engineer working for me who was given the responsibility to incorporate a circuit developed by another company into our equipment for test purposes. (This was all legal since our equipment had to talk to their equipment and we needed this circuit in ours to verify that communication.) The engineer decide to make a modification in a critical filter circuit. The mod made sense because it gave us the flexibility to adjust the filter, where the original did not. However, the mod changed a filter characteristic called "Q." Q is a weird thing, it is almost an intangable. We know it and can calculate it but no one seems to be able to explain it. After spending tens of thousands dollars and hundreds of manhours trying to make the circuit work, we literally had to rip the entire new circuit out and revert back to the original circuit, not because it was perfect, but because it functioned.
The old MM wasnot perfect, but it functioned better than the current. It automatically provided for many of the desired game features which now would have to be provided by separate game modes. FRom what i heard listening to the roundtable and what i know from the ramp up to it about Pix's intent, the roundtable did exactly what it was sought to do. There is no ambiguity concerning the desires and views of the game's users - matchmaking is broken. But there was something else which is being ignored, all at the table want this game and pix to succeed. It was not about "I want it my way or the highway." It was about making this game more appealing and statisfying for the entire community.
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Post by xj92 on Apr 24, 2017 6:07:51 GMT -5
I didn't put my name in because I presumed that the Representatives would be unbiased. Clearly, I was mistaken .. Are you a dense motherfker.. you claim you have all the solutions and the data for the game, but clearly you have only been playing for a few months?? You don't have 「dookie」 son, I don't know how delusional you can get but YOU comparing your 3-4 experience with people who have been playing since the beginning 3 years ago, and yet you don't give up...? Get off your high horse, you have no idea how much this game has derailed since the introduction of leagues and the new mm and plenty of other money grabs that pixonic has done, so please just crawl back to your cave and let people who know what's wrong with the game and can COMPARE with a game that worked much BETTER before all this went to hell, we players who have been playing for a while never wanted this league system and definitely not what we asked for when they said that this was the solution, NO these last changes RUINED THE GAME, but heck, what do you know? You have no idea how it was when the game ACTUALLY worked, but sure keep spitting at Dredd and the others, hope you have had fun the 3-4 months you have been playing, I really believe that you know how fun it was with the old mm etc, just give up already, the game has went from great to barely holding on gasping for life. The representatives spoke what the COMMUNITY wanted and where pixonic made the wrong moves, and WE support them (at least we who have played more than a few months lol) so cut it and let those who know what they are talking about talk.
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Post by SuperHero on Apr 24, 2017 7:07:17 GMT -5
I didn't put my name in because I presumed that the Representatives would be unbiased. Clearly, I was mistaken .. Are you a dense motherfker.. you claim you have all the solutions and the data for the game, but clearly you have only been playing for a few months?? You don't have 「dookie」 son, I don't know how delusional you can get but YOU comparing your 3-4 experience with people who have been playing since the beginning 3 years ago, and yet you don't give up...? Get off your high horse, you have no idea how much this game has derailed since the introduction of leagues and the new mm and plenty of other money grabs that pixonic has done, so please just crawl back to your cave and let people who know what's wrong with the game and can COMPARE with a game that worked much BETTER before all this went to hell, we players who have been playing for a while never wanted this league system and definitely not what we asked for when they said that this was the solution, NO these last changes RUINED THE GAME, but heck, what do you know? You have no idea how it was when the game ACTUALLY worked, but sure keep spitting at Dredd and the others, hope you have had fun the 3-4 months you have been playing, I really believe that you know how fun it was with the old mm etc, just give up already, the game has went from great to barely holding on gasping for life. The representatives spoke what the COMMUNITY wanted and where pixonic made the wrong moves, and WE support them (at least we who have played more than a few months lol) so cut it and let those who know what they are talking about talk. Thanks for the support mate. But in the spirit of impartiality and doing my job as a mod, please refrain from profanities and inflammatory remarks. You point was perfectly made without them.
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Post by Vindictive999 on Apr 24, 2017 7:23:20 GMT -5
Haha that is him being restrained!!!
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Post by shaolinrogue on Apr 24, 2017 10:00:07 GMT -5
I would put my 2 cents in but i think, Super Hero covered it. Agreed, I saw the first page & had a lot to say. After reading the rest of the thread I just want to reiterate some key things: FirebeardThere were lots of polls & discussions the entire week leading up to the meeting, did you participate in any? Pixonic was given multiple suggestions on how to improve MM/Leagues & also how it could co-exist with the system that the VAST MAJORITY OF PLAYERS ENJOY, try listening to it, it sounds more like you read a summary and drew your own conclusions. And as many have pointed out, the fact that you did not play pre-league gives you less perspective, not more.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2017 15:03:36 GMT -5
Also, next time - if there is a next time - I hope to be included. Well, all you have to do is earn enough respect from the community that we'll vote for you to represent us. This is where Dredd was going with the youtube reference and such. The people who have done that, done it well enough to have thousands of subscribers, people who take the time to run personal blogs with broad readership, and people who take a surprising amount of time responding to 「smart person」es like you and I are the only ones that have earned a place at the table. I'll admit right up front, that while I have my issues with various things I am way, way too lazy to put the effort in they have. Kudos to them for making my War Robots experience better! With that in mind I do not expect, nor should I, to have an equal voice as those that have dedicated themselves the way people like Adrian and Stew have. As Dredd has politely put, multiple times now (I dunno how you do it Dredd, must be the kids), if you want to a spot at the table you need to step it up a hell of a lot more than 「female dog」ing on the forums. At this point you need to let it go man. You're not winning here.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2017 16:41:15 GMT -5
I loved listening to the player reps at the end. Bet the texts were great. Important thing too, was upper level player, rarely, if ever face the problems that we do, spoke for us! The whole thing was pretty damn Democratic from our end.
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Post by shaolinrogue on Apr 24, 2017 20:17:18 GMT -5
I loved listening to the player reps at the end. Bet the texts were great. Important thing too, was upper level player, rarely, if ever face the problems that we do, spoke for us! The whole thing was pretty damn Democratic from our end. There was some pretty good non-game related chit-chat too but it was already so long I cut it. I should confess I was trying to keep the convo rolling so I could keep Ace talking. I told him if he went to Maritime Canada they would cook him dinner, give him some screech & have him kiss the Cod. I believe his response was something like: "I don't know what that means, but it sounds lovely"
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2017 20:25:52 GMT -5
His voice surpasses the Attenburoughs!
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[FeAu] Leader Londoc
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Post by [FeAu] Leader Londoc on Apr 24, 2017 20:39:55 GMT -5
blastronaut would have made Pixonic fix everything while they were on the phone. ;p
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Post by Vindictive999 on Apr 25, 2017 2:56:37 GMT -5
I loved listening to the player reps at the end. Bet the texts were great. Important thing too, was upper level player, rarely, if ever face the problems that we do, spoke for us! The whole thing was pretty damn Democratic from our end. There was some pretty good non-game related chit-chat too but it was already so long I cut it. I should confess I was trying to keep the convo rolling so I could keep Ace talking. I told him if he went to Maritime Canada they would cook him dinner, give him some screech & have him kiss the Cod. I believe his response was something like: "I don't know what that means, but it sounds lovely" So its not just me with a man crush!
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Post by Firebeard on Apr 25, 2017 3:14:06 GMT -5
Well, this is fascinating. I wasn't even going to look in this Thread but the Notifications were too many, so I did - regretfully.
There seems to be something fundamentally wrong when someone who has an opposing view is attacked for pointing out that their argument is flawed. But let let me make some points, anyway:
#1: There were NO public Polls or links to such. This implies that ALL questions were ascertained in-house. You can provide NO evidence that demonstrates your viewpoint is that of the majority. Only that you have Polled or Surveyed areas of particular interest.
#2: Having a media channel with a following does not constitute credibility. It simply means you can address more people than the Forums. It also means that you are limited in your ability to be open-minded and voice impartiality because you need to address your Subscribers lest you lose your "following." You are figure-head, nothing more. You were chosen by your Followers not the Community.
#3: You have no idea how Pixonic operates. Your futile attempts to sway Pixonic to conform to a pay schedule that suits you is utter lunacy. Pixonic is extremely reasonable in their pricing. If you are unable to afford the cost of playability then don't believe yourself to be in a position to demand a rate change.
#4: Walking War Robots has approx. two million Players across global Servers. What was the percentage of those Players not affiliated with the Wiki or Youtube that agree with your position? .. Please provide evidence.
#5: Your failure(s) to understand how my opinion can be Objective vs. your opinion being biased is beyond my control. You are simply moving further and further away from being able to be taken seriously. Let's drop it.
#6: I sat through a 2-1/2hr. temper tantrum that was wrapped up in a Sales-pitch. Even afterwards, you continued to smear Pixonic. Do you honestly believe that you had any impact with that type of behavior? Let alone this attack upon someone who, plays the game but does not agree with you. I believe your attitude in this Thread has shifted the public perception of you.
In closing, let me say this to those who can't stand to see their War Robots Role model(s) critiqued: If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the Kitchen...
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Post by War Child on Apr 25, 2017 3:37:34 GMT -5
Firebeard,does $50 for just 1!bot sound fair pricing to you?And first of all,who started this flame wars?You started out first defining what a roundtable is,but then you changed the subject and claimed you have much more bias than much more experienced people.And then you started to falsely point out the true personalities/intentions of people who that YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW A ?poo-poo?.Just WHO is insulting here?
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Post by Firebeard on Apr 25, 2017 3:58:49 GMT -5
Firebeard,does $50 for just 1!bot sound fair pricing to you?And first of all,who started this flame wars?You started out first defining what a roundtable is,but then you changed the subject and claimed you have much more bias than much more experienced people.And then you started to falsely point out the true personalities/intentions of people who that YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW A ?poo-poo?.Just WHO is insulting here? I made simple Post about my opinion of the "talks." It was the responses to that Post that started this whole "flame war." I defended my position and was attacked and insulted for my efforts. .. and, Yes $50 for a Mecha is par for the course. I've spent $100's for less. Pixonic is reasonable. I am firm in my grasp of the lingo as I have my undergraduate in Business/Administration. Just because I'm an Ironworker does not mean I'm uneducated.
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Post by SuperHero on Apr 25, 2017 4:02:12 GMT -5
Firebeard I actually don't have any issue with contradictory stands or positions. However when they are made without complete facts, it gets disturbing. Worse still is that while your observations might be valid from certain perspectives, you yourselves have attempted to do the exact same thing that you have accused the members of the roundtable to be: presumptive and assuming that you speak for the majority. It is understood that the majority remains silent and that there are many times that the we hear the outspoken minority. It is also true that many do not follow the wiki forum or Youtube. However, it is also true that the percentages have moved a little bit since Pix linked the forum in-game. You statement "this implies that all questions were ascertained in-house" is simplistic at best as we opened up the forum and had threads dedicated to asking people to give us ANYTHING they wanted to be brought up. Numerous things were requested and if you had read through them, you would have seen the trend. If you had disagreed with them (which is your right) THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE SAID SOMETHING! However, with hindsight being 20/20, YOU ALLOWED the "vocal" majority (of the forum) to make their gripes known, vote for their reps and send them on their way, only to then complain that you were note being represented. You had every opportunity to make your case known and you could not be bothered. That being said, Pixonic has very limited ways to garner the data required. FB has become incredibly toxic and is even worse than the Rant Section of this forum. They have released surveys... they required folks with an in-depth knowledge of the game to feed back, so who were they supposed to turn to? Mind you, the majority of the players playing are in the silver and gold leagues and are unable to give a proper perspective of the macro-picture. You might say that the forum is a drop in the ocean and you would probably be right. However, it is probably the only qualify-able large community of players that Pixonic has the ability to draw on without being dragged into a FB cancerous slagging fest. Finally, it was Pix's decision to draw parties and representatives in this way, not ours. As such, they are the ones who will have to bear the consequences of the feedback they receive. Might you suffer as a result? Perhaps, but even you have to blame Pix for that. The most saddening part of this is that all I have heard from you has been criticism of how you felt represented, but there have been no solutions given from your end. It has literally become an intellectual exercise and debate about the fact that you did not feel represented by the folks of this forum. I'm sorry you feel that way, but you had your chance to voice your opinions and you blew it. You cannot blame others for that.
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