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Post by Dredd77 on Apr 22, 2017 22:10:06 GMT -5
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Post by Firebeard on Apr 22, 2017 22:29:47 GMT -5
I'm sorry Dredd, but that was not productive. Pixonic wanted to gauge public response and formulate ways to make the new League system workable for everyone. It turned into a, "I hate the new system. Destroy it .. and while you're at it, change these 1 million things about your company. Ohhh and I hate Match Matching. Do this - Do that..."
It wasn't supposed to be a Sales pitch ..
.. sorry - just the impression that I got and I'm sure Pixonic did, too.
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Post by Paps on Apr 22, 2017 22:32:44 GMT -5
Decent write up. Overly optimistic, but good. I appreciate Shaolin Rogue and yourself taking the time and effort to put forth some of the concerns of the community to Pixonic. Thanks are also due to the other community members who participated.
Ball's in their court, so to speak. Time will tell.
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Post by War Child on Apr 22, 2017 22:36:17 GMT -5
I'm sorry Dredd, but that was not productive. Pixonic wanted to gauge public response and formulate ways to make the new League system workable for everyone. It turned into a, "I hate the new system. Destroy it .. and while you're at it, change these 1 million things about your company. Ohhh and I hate Match Matching. Do this - Do that..." It wasn't supposed to be a Sales pitch .. .. sorry - just the impression that I got and I'm sure Pixonic did, too. Unfortunately,that WAS the public response.I always used to be jolly and supportive around Pix but for the past couple of months,I've gotten to the negative.
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Post by Firebeard on Apr 22, 2017 23:01:10 GMT -5
I'm sorry Dredd, but that was not productive. Pixonic wanted to gauge public response and formulate ways to make the new League system workable for everyone. It turned into a, "I hate the new system. Destroy it .. and while you're at it, change these 1 million things about your company. Ohhh and I hate Match Matching. Do this - Do that..." It wasn't supposed to be a Sales pitch .. .. sorry - just the impression that I got and I'm sure Pixonic did, too. Unfortunately,that WAS the public response.I always used to be jolly and supportive around Pix but for the past couple of months,I've gotten to the negative. I understand. But an objective opinion would be: "The League is working as intended. Players are matched with other Players and points are calculated efficiently. We understand that higher tiers have a limited Player pool. Also, that this forces different tiers to mesh so as to create suitable number of Matches for Players to engage in. However, as the Tiers approach Emerald and Champion, the disparity in power levels become too great and this is causing an imbalance in the gameplay. A possible reworking of the parameters could ensure power-level appropriate Players are matched with other Players of similar 'Levels." We need ways to make the current system viable not scrap the whole thing.
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Post by Dredd77 on Apr 22, 2017 23:02:54 GMT -5
Might be worth pointing out that Pix did this precisely because they wanted to hear our subjective opinions.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2017 23:23:16 GMT -5
People that always want, or always give objective opinions, are not to be trusted.
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Post by Cdr. Crimmins on Apr 22, 2017 23:33:27 GMT -5
Thanks for the write up Dredd, and for the time needed to prepare and participate!
You too, Shaolin Rogue!
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Post by Firebeard on Apr 23, 2017 21:10:52 GMT -5
Might be worth pointing out that Pix did this precisely because they wanted to hear our subjective opinions. It was a Roundtable. That means, give your Objective opinion on the "current state" not a Subjective review of the entire game and recommend changes that would clearly only benefit those who asked for them. I was not present for the prior MM so, my opinion is completely objective. It works. I know exactly where the problem with "Tankers" is and how to correct it. But this would cut out into the, "I wanna play my way" crowd. They wanted to know how to correct the "current issue(s)." .. that's all
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Post by Dredd77 on Apr 23, 2017 21:49:34 GMT -5
Might be worth pointing out that Pix did this precisely because they wanted to hear our subjective opinions. It was a Roundtable. That means, give your Objective opinion on the "current state" not a Subjective review of the entire game and recommend changes that would clearly only benefit those who asked for them. I was not present for the prior MM so, my opinion is completely objective. It works. I know exactly where the problem with "Tankers" is and how to correct it. But this would cut out into the, "I wanna play my way" crowd. They wanted to know how to correct the "current issue(s)." .. that's all For someone who wasn't present at the discussions with Pixonic about what they wanted (I was), and wasn't present at the meeting (I was), you seem to speak with a tremendous amount of assumed authority. All told, I don't entirely disagree with you. You heard me speak, and I mixed positive and negative. I have no idea how you felt about my portion, but there you go. I'm just amazed at the confidence you're showing about what Pixo may or may not have wanted when you weren't part of the dialogue that I'm aware of. Am I wrong?
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Post by Firebeard on Apr 23, 2017 22:09:46 GMT -5
It was a Roundtable. That means, give your Objective opinion on the "current state" not a Subjective review of the entire game and recommend changes that would clearly only benefit those who asked for them. I was not present for the prior MM so, my opinion is completely objective. It works. I know exactly where the problem with "Tankers" is and how to correct it. But this would cut out into the, "I wanna play my way" crowd. They wanted to know how to correct the "current issue(s)." .. that's all For someone who wasn't present at the discussions with Pixonic about what they wanted (I was), and wasn't present at the meeting (I was), you seem to speak with a tremendous amount of assumed authority. All told, I don't entirely disagree with you. You heard me speak, and I mixed positive and negative. I have no idea how you felt about my portion, but there you go. I'm just amazed at the confidence you're showing about what Pixo may or may not have wanted when you weren't part of the dialogue that I'm aware of. Am I wrong? What I'm inferring is that there was a misunderstanding of the term, Roundtable. It was clear from 10 minutes into the conversation that this was going sideways. I heard your assertions, you telling Pixonic about the older system and making a comparison. Which was fine but then you, like everyone else that was present, began to offer solutions by way of changing the current system to reflect the older system. I'm just saying that there should have been guidelines. I'm not implying that you or anyone didn't have valid points, I'm saying that the conversation was derailed when you included changes that would obviously mean a complete reset of the system .. and to be honest, I didn't agree with most of what was offered in the way of "changes."
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Post by sonofsam on Apr 23, 2017 22:15:18 GMT -5
I noticed you said "topic of first meeting" are more planned?
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Post by Dredd77 on Apr 23, 2017 22:24:56 GMT -5
For someone who wasn't present at the discussions with Pixonic about what they wanted (I was), and wasn't present at the meeting (I was), you seem to speak with a tremendous amount of assumed authority. All told, I don't entirely disagree with you. You heard me speak, and I mixed positive and negative. I have no idea how you felt about my portion, but there you go. I'm just amazed at the confidence you're showing about what Pixo may or may not have wanted when you weren't part of the dialogue that I'm aware of. Am I wrong? What I'm inferring is that there was a misunderstanding of the term, Roundtable. It was clear from 10 minutes into the conversation that this was going sideways. I heard your assertions, you telling Pixonic about the older system and making a comparison. Which was fine but then you, like everyone else that was present, began to offer solutions by way of changing the current system to reflect the older system. I'm just saying that there should have been guidelines. I'm not implying that you or anyone didn't have valid points, I'm saying that the conversation was derailed when you included changes that would obviously mean a complete reset of the system .. and to be honest, I didn't agree with most of what was offered in the way of "changes." I respectfully believe that your opening position is that you don't like what was said/suggested, and then are trying to invalidate it through your own personal expectations of what the event should have been about, while having absolutely zero idea of what it actually was about. I really hate to play the, "you don't know what you're talking about" card, but I'm afraid here it absolutely fits. You're free to say you don't agree with any of the speakers or proposed ideas, but you go off the rails when you take it upon yourself to declare that this isn't what Pixo intended. Because allow me- as someone who was part of this from the very beginning- to advise you that You. Are. Dead.Wrong. I bet the post-event conversations we've had would melt your ears.
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Post by Dredd77 on Apr 23, 2017 22:26:31 GMT -5
I noticed you said "topic of first meeting" are more planned? The idea has been that if this one went well, there would be more. I'd say it's pretty likely.
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Post by BLYTHE on Apr 23, 2017 22:31:45 GMT -5
Nice read Dredd and thanks for talking the time and representing the community. I'm curious though, did Pix ever say *why* they wanted to have a Roundtable?
Was this in response to something?
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Post by Firebeard on Apr 23, 2017 22:32:03 GMT -5
I downloaded the whole 2 and a half hours and sat through repeated attempts to convince Pixonic that they should scrap the whole MM and make "your" game(s).
Perhaps if you transcribed the first three minutes of conversation or please, by all means, tell us what Pixonic wanted ..
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Post by Dredd77 on Apr 23, 2017 22:34:34 GMT -5
I downloaded the whole 2 and a half hours and sat through repeated attempts to convince Pixonic that they should scrap the whole MM and make "your" game(s). Perhaps if you transcribed the first three minutes of conversation or please, by all means, tell us what Pixonic wanted .. Three minutes of conversation? Dude, try two weeks of conversations with Pixonic prior to the event even being publicly announced. None are so blind as those that will not see, eh? Just give it up.
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Post by Dredd77 on Apr 23, 2017 22:41:29 GMT -5
Firebeard Incidentally, if you think you are entitled to be a part of those kinds of conversations, so you can actually proclaim things with any semblance of authenticity and authority rather than just spouting wind, and want to be a Pixonic Insider... PLEASE, do it! Go forth and create a YouTube channel that hundreds and hundreds of people flock to. Go create a blog that lots of people enjoy. Find a niche, an outlet that adds value to the community. Go and do something more than just being Some Dude Talking out of his Arse on the Forums... because we already have too many of those, and not enough of the other.
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Post by Firebeard on Apr 23, 2017 22:45:52 GMT -5
I downloaded the whole 2 and a half hours and sat through repeated attempts to convince Pixonic that they should scrap the whole MM and make "your" game(s). Perhaps if you transcribed the first three minutes of conversation or please, by all means, tell us what Pixonic wanted .. Three minutes of conversation? Dude, try two weeks of conversations with Pixonic prior to the event even being publicly announced. None are so blind as those that will not see, eh? Just give it up. What did Pxonic ask for? .. Hate mail? .. "implied" scam artists? .. that they don't know what they're doing? .. Or did they want a comprehensive position of the Player base on the MM? I seen No Polls regarding specifics and only heard, "my opinion" which demonstrated that no outside surveys were taken - that destroyed your credibility. Also, why was no one who feels opposed to your views included in the talks? It was just a Pixonic bash-fest .. If you're going to present yourself as representing the Community, then make sure you do that ..
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Post by Dredd77 on Apr 23, 2017 22:54:19 GMT -5
Three minutes of conversation? Dude, try two weeks of conversations with Pixonic prior to the event even being publicly announced. None are so blind as those that will not see, eh? Just give it up. What did Pxonic ask for? .. Hate mail? .. "implied" scam artists? .. that they don't know what they're doing? .. Or did they want a comprehensive position of the Player base on the MM? I seen No Polls regarding specifics and only heard, "my opinion" which demonstrated that no outside surveys were taken - that destroyed your credibility. Also, why was no one who feels opposed to your views included in the talks? It was just a Pixonic bash-fest .. If you're going to present yourself as representing the Community, then make sure you do that .. You're absolutely entitled to your opinion. As I said, conversations with Pixo subsequent to the event unambiguously state that they saw value in the conversations. Many of us certainly did. So congratulations, you have an opinion: EDIT: Make sure to send me a PM whenever you get your YouTube/blog/knitting circle/whatever-makes-you-more-than-just-some-whiny-guy-with-a-keyboard off the ground, I'll be happy to help promote it.
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Post by player1hasleft on Apr 23, 2017 23:05:09 GMT -5
Captian obvious and Captian hindsight out in the streets!! It's easy to say what needs to be asked and what not after the event. I listened to the whole meeting, everyone had great suggestions and Ideas. The matchmaking system was the common topic amongst all. So if the constant bashing of MM wasn't enough to get through their thick skin, then nothing will...
After hearing PIXO respond towards the closing of the session, I am confident that things will not change for the better. Play this game, don't spend any money for more than it's worth, accept losses, and don't sweat for more than it's worth. (This comming from a guy who broke 3 tablets in rage ...) Everything has a life cycle, and for this game it might just have past it's prime.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 23:14:31 GMT -5
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Post by Firebeard on Apr 23, 2017 23:14:53 GMT -5
What did Pxonic ask for? .. Hate mail? .. "implied" scam artists? .. that they don't know what they're doing? .. Or did they want a comprehensive position of the Player base on the MM? I seen No Polls regarding specifics and only heard, "my opinion" which demonstrated that no outside surveys were taken - that destroyed your credibility. Also, why was no one who feels opposed to your views included in the talks? It was just a Pixonic bash-fest .. If you're going to present yourself as representing the Community, then make sure you do that .. You're absolutely entitled to your opinion. As I said, conversations with Pixo subsequent to the event unambiguously state that they saw value in the conversations. Many of us certainly did. So congratulations, you have an opinion: EDIT: Make sure to send me a PM whenever you get your YouTube/blog/knitting circle/whatever-makes-you-more-than-just-some-whiny-guy-with-a-keyboard off the ground, I'll be happy to help promote it. You see your response? .. that is why you lost credibility. You think a Youtube Channel is what makes you or anyone more important than the rest? .. *smh* Also, next time - if there is a next time - I hope to be included.
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Post by Dredd77 on Apr 23, 2017 23:19:12 GMT -5
Hey Dredd, Didn't PIX provide the topic of MM? Didnt PIX provide specific items under this topic? Wait a minute...................... Community RoundtableYes. Our friend Firebeard seems to have missed this- amongst several- other points.
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Post by Dredd77 on Apr 23, 2017 23:28:53 GMT -5
You're absolutely entitled to your opinion. As I said, conversations with Pixo subsequent to the event unambiguously state that they saw value in the conversations. Many of us certainly did. So congratulations, you have an opinion: EDIT: Make sure to send me a PM whenever you get your YouTube/blog/knitting circle/whatever-makes-you-more-than-just-some-whiny-guy-with-a-keyboard off the ground, I'll be happy to help promote it. You see your response? .. that is why you lost credibility. You think a Youtube Channel is what makes you or anyone more important than the rest? .. *smh* Also, next time - if there is a next time - I hope to be included. I believe that people who do things, perfect or not, have more to offer than people who sit on their keyboards and moan about those doing things, again perfect or not. If I've lost credibility with you, I guess I'll have to just find a way to live with myself. Like all these other zero-credibility losers. So I'll be waiting for that PM, Firebeard . Have a great night!
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Post by Firebeard on Apr 23, 2017 23:34:04 GMT -5
Hey Dredd, Didn't PIX provide the topic of MM? Didnt PIX provide specific items under this topic? Wait a minute...................... Community RoundtableYes. Our friend Firebeard seems to have missed this- amongst several- other points. Nope .. You forget I listened to it - all of it. Pixonic wanted "Views" and ways to fix any issues with the 'current' match making system. Then if there's time to see what future content can be provided. So, stop. - you Win, Pixonic bad.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 23:34:43 GMT -5
I was not present for the prior MM so, my opinion is completely objective. It works. I know exactly where the problem with "Tankers" is and how to correct it. But this would cut out into the, "I wanna play my way" crowd. They wanted to know how to correct the "current issue(s)." .. that's all So your opinion is objective because you have only played leagues, and others opinions are subjective because they have played the old MM and leagues? Your opinion is uneducated, and you speak ignorantly. You have nothing to compare leagues to. How can you know what the problem is, and how to fix it? You never played the old MM. You say they wanted to correct the current issues. Ever hear the phrase, you don't know where you are going, until you can see where you have been? The old MM is part of how we got here. You can't just omit it from the equation. Apr 23, 2017 20:09:46 GMT -7 Firebeard said: I'm just saying that there have been guidelines. Well, there were 6 items put out for discussion. Those were the guidelines. Guidelines are "shoulds" and not "have to's"
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Post by Firebeard on Apr 23, 2017 23:41:04 GMT -5
I was not present for the prior MM so, my opinion is completely objective. It works. I know exactly where the problem with "Tankers" is and how to correct it. But this would cut out into the, "I wanna play my way" crowd. They wanted to know how to correct the "current issue(s)." .. that's all So your opinion is objective because you have only played leagues, and others opinions are subjective because they have play the old MM and leagues? Your opinion is uneducated, and you speak ignorantly. You have nothing to compare leagues to. How can you know what the problem is, and how to fix it? You never played the old MM. You say they wanted to correct the current issues. Ever hear the phrase, you don't know where you are going, until you can see where you have been? The old MM is part of how we got here. You can't just omit it from the equation. BecauseI have nothing to compare it to makes it Objective. If I compared it, I would have a biased opinion and my opinion would therefore be Subjective. I know exactly how to fix the " Tanker" issue .. because I know exactly where is problem is. If the OP cannot take criticism of his own statements, then what right does he have to critique others? ..
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Post by Dredd77 on Apr 23, 2017 23:41:47 GMT -5
I was not present for the prior MM so, my opinion is completely objective. It works. I know exactly where the problem with "Tankers" is and how to correct it. But this would cut out into the, "I wanna play my way" crowd. They wanted to know how to correct the "current issue(s)." .. that's all So your opinion is objective because you have only played leagues, and others opinions are subjective because they have play the old MM and leagues? Your opinion is uneducated, and you speak ignorantly. You have nothing to compare leagues to. How can you know what the problem is, and how to fix it? You never played the old MM. You say they wanted to correct the current issues. Ever hear the phrase, you don't know where you are going, until you can see where you have been? The old MM is part of how we got here. You can't just omit it from the equation. It never ceases to amaze me just how many conversations on the internet are essentially variations of the following: A: Ignorant statement. B: Uh, facts. A: NO, IGNORANT STATEMENT Our mutual friend here continues to double down. Extraordinary.
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Post by Dredd77 on Apr 23, 2017 23:50:42 GMT -5
I know exactly how to fix the " Tanker" issue .. because I know exactly where is problem is. Ahh, there it is, good ol' fashioned envy. "Why did they listen to those morons, when they should be listening to ME!" I'm glad we could get to the bottom of this before I headed to bed. (Pro tip: if you want to be heard, Firebeard , be a voice)
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