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Post by couchtrader on Nov 5, 2016 23:12:53 GMT -5
I thought I'd bring this over from the original forum to make it easier to find for the newcomers. Credit to Tintehfiend for all his hard work.
MM Scale/Microtier Guide
TintehFiend
No more oversimplifying. The following is the raw scale.
--Find the hangar power of your strongest bot, your average opponents will be within +- 150 of your score.
-- +-10% deviation from a 50% win rate correlates to +- 10% variation of hangar score.
-- WSP bots increase hangar score by 20%
-- MM will continue to reach further up and down the scale until a room is made.
-- Low population of the MM forces unfavorable matchups. The fewer players queued, the greater the chance of mismatching. MM seems crazy during power hour because it is churning out matches quickly, and bundling leftover players in the queue.
-- keep in mind that there is a 145 point difference between lights and mediums, and a 145 point difference between mediums and heavies. 140 points is equal to: 3 bot levels & 2 weapon levels, 1 bot level & 3 weapon levels, and 5 bot levels & 1 weapon level. As long as your lighter bots are one of these combinations above the next weight class, your hangar is considered even (all within 5-10 points of one another)
How To:
-Find the level of your strongest, heaviest active bot.
-Note Hangar score
- +-150 points should be your "normal" range of opponents (your microtier)
Scale Legend :
A:b:c:d
A: Scale placement
B: Bot weight class ( L= light etc)
C: possible level combinations that equal score. bot/weapon (bot>weapon excluded aside heavies), Numbers depict weapon level averages, for deviations from even levels, multiply the weapon level by the bot's hard points, any weapon total equalling the total equals that average. (Ex: lv 6 weapon avg = weapon total of 18 on 3 slot bots, 24 on 4 slot bots etc)
D: Hangar score Before BR
SCALE
1:L:1/1: 65
2:L:1/2: 105
3:L:2/2: 125
4:L:1/3: 145
5:L:2/3: 165
6:L:1/4, 3/3: 185
7:L:2/4: 205
8:M:1/1: 210
9:L:1/5, 3/4: 225
10:L:2/5, 4/4: 245
11:M:1/2: 250
12:L:1/6, 3/5: 265
13:M:2/2: 270
14:L:2/6, 4/5: 285
15:M:1/3: 290
16:L:1/7, 3/6, 5/5 :305
17:M:2/3: 310
18:L:2/7, 4/6: 325
19:M:1/4, 3/3: 330
20:L:1/8, 3/7, 5/6: 345
21:M:2/4: 350
22:H:1/1: 355
23:L:2/8, 4/7, 6/6: 365
24:M:1/5, 3/4: 370
25:L:1/9, 3/8, 5/7: 385
26:M:2/5, 4/4: 390
27:H:1/2:395
28:L:2/9, 4/8, 6/7: 405
29:M:1/6, 3/5: 410
30:H:2/2: 415
31:L:1/10, 3/9, 5/8, 7/7: 425
32:M:2/6, 4/5: 430
33:H:1/3: 435
34:L:2/10, 4/9, 6/8: 445
35:M:1/7, 3/6, 5/5: 450
36:H:2/3, 6/1: 455
37:L:1/11, 3/10, 5/9, 7/8: 465
38:M:2/7, 4/6: 470
39:H:1/4, 3/3:475
40:L:2/11, 4/10, 6/9, 8/8: 485
41:M:1/8, 3/7, 5/6: 490
42:H:2/4, 6/2: 495
43:L:1/12, 3/11, 5/10, 7/9: 505
44:M:2/8, 4/7, 6/6: 510
45:H:1/5, 3/4: 515
46:L:2/12, 4/11, 6/10, 8/9: 525
47:M:1/9, 3/8, 5/7: 530
48:H:2/5, 4/4, 6/3: 535
49:L:3/12, 5/11, 7/10, 9/9: 545
50:M:2/9, 4/8, 6/7: 550
51:H:1/6, 3/5: 555
52:L:4/12, 6/11, 8/10: 565
53:M:1/10, 3/9, 5/8, 7/7: 570
54:H:2/6, 4/5, 6/4: 575
55:L:5/12, 7/11, 9/10: 585
56:M:2/10, 4/9, 6/8: 590
57:H:1/7, 3/6, 5/5: 595
58:L:6/12, 8/11, 10/10: 605
59:M:1/11, 3/10, 5/9, 7/8: 610
60:H:2/7, 4/6, 6/5:615
61:L:7/12, 9/11: 625
62:M:2/11, 4/10, 6/9, 8/8: 630
63:H:1/8, 3/7, 5/6: 635
64:L:8/12, 10/11: 645
65:M:1/12, 3/11, 5/10, 7/9: 650
66:H:2/8, 4/7, 6/6: 655
67:L:9/12, 11/11: 665
68:M:2/12, 4/11, 6/10, 8/9: 670
69:H:1/9, 3/8, 5/7: 675
70:L:10/12: 685
71:M:3/12, 5/11, 7/10, 9/9: 690
72:H:2/9, 4/8, 6/7: 695
73:L:11/12: 705
74:M:4/12, 6/11, 8/10: 710
75:H:1/10, 3/9, 5/8, 7/7: 715
76:L:12/12 : 725
77:M:5/12, 7/11, 9/10: 730
78:H:2/10, 4/9, 6/8: 735
79:M:6/12, 8/11, 10/10: 750
80:H:1/11, 3/10, 5/9, 7/8: 755
81:M:7/12, 9/11: 770
82:H:2/11, 4/10, 6/9, 8/8: 775
83:M:8/12, 10/11: 790
84:H:1/12, 3/11, 5/10, 7/9: 795
85:M:9/12, 11/11: 810
86:H:2/12, 4/11, 6/10, 8/9: 815
87:M:10/12: 830
88:H:3/12, 5/11, 7/10, 9/9: 835
89:M:11/12: 850
90:H:4/12, 6/11, 8/10: 855
91:M:12/12: 870
92:H:5/12, 7/11, 9/10: 875
93:H:6/12, 8/11, 10/10: 895
94:H:7/12, 9/11: 915
95:H:8/12, 10/11: 935
96:H:9/12, 11/11: 955
97:H:10/12: 975
98:H:11/12: 995
99:H:12/12 1015
Edited by TintehFiend 04:37, September 21, 2016
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2016 2:51:02 GMT -5
*Disclaimer *
This is a general guideline.
As stated on the actual MM wiki article, all changes to MM are serverside, and pix does not need to update the client to make changes to it.
The core information was pulled from a test server tooltip about 6 months ago.
Possible tweaks include:
-Yama map appears at X lv weapon scores regardless of bot level.
-ALL heavy robots have somewhere between 10-30% less value than stated in the original information.
-Region preferences enabled according to player population.
-Small score modifier from using wsp weapons
Current 'tiers' to aim for (where MM seems fair)
Low bronze (get out asap )
High bronze: 4/9 lights, 3/6 mediums, 6/4 heavies.
Silver: 4/12,6/11, 8/10 lights, 3/9, 5/8, 7/7 mediums, 6/6 heavies
Gold 12/12 lights, 10/10+ mediums, 6/8+ heavies.
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Post by couchtrader on Nov 6, 2016 2:55:15 GMT -5
These are my personal observations / generalizations only. MM is always changing with every update and sometimes in between it seems. These are the setups I've used personally and what I consider as optimal for the corresponding tier and allows me to enjoy "fair" matchups.
Again, MM is constantly changing so take this with a grain of salt.
Pilots in training - Leave them alone
Lights L1 - 4/4/4, Mediums L1 - 1/2/1
Low Bronze:
Lights L1 - 9/6/5
Mediums L1 - 5/3/2
High Bronze:
Lights L4 - 9/9/9
Mediums L4 - 6/6/6 or 6/7 for duals
Low Silver:
Lights L4 - 12/12/12
Mediums L4 - 9/9/9
High Silver:
Lights L6 - 12/12/12
Mediums L5 - 9/9/9 or L4 - 10/9/9
Heavies L6 - 6/6/6/6 including Rhino, Raijin, Lancelot
anything above this is what I consider gold territory.
WSP Bots and Britbots :
Carnage, Fujin, Galahad, and Gareth are all weighted by MM as Heavy Bots. Don't even bother with a low setup as they would be fragile and ineffective at that level. It may throw you in a few Low Silver games but it will be very inconsistent. Starting setup for these bots in my opinion is 6-5
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Post by [ita]SirKenzoY2J on Nov 6, 2016 3:01:13 GMT -5
what about wsp bot penalties? i want to use my dual Thunder Rajin in Low Silver, how to combine it to rix it in this tier? same question for my lv4 galahad
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2016 3:01:18 GMT -5
The weapon level depicted is the average number, so something like 4/6 means 4 bot, weapon levels =18 for 3 slots, 12 for 2 slots and 24 for 4 slots
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Post by Strayed on Nov 6, 2016 3:02:56 GMT -5
WSP and Brit bots are unable to go into low silver without being practically useless.
Also, it seems that the matchmaker page needs to be updated again...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2016 3:14:27 GMT -5
what about wsp bot penalties? i want to use my dual Thunder Rajin in Low Silver, how to combine it to rix it in this tier? same question for my lv4 galahad Wsp penalties are factored in after your highest bot level is determined. You'll have to roll your entire hangar 2 weapon levels lower than the suggested numbers to get your WSP/Gold bots into anything under gold/top. In order for a wsp or britbot to enter any tier other than gold you have to gimp ALL of your bots to the tier below, their penalty will push you into mid/high silver using just high bronze levels. Simple answer:you'd have to use the levels listed in the previous tier for your entire hangar. I suggest sticking to 3/9 ag mediums using the weapons you will need until you have a full hangar's worth of lv 9 brit/wsp bots, then switch to 9/9 brit /wsp bots while working on getting everything to 10/10-12/12 if you really need a runner, a single mag Gepard with 4/12 will do (as you won't be using it after you make the transition.) I'd also advise getting the majority of Au weapons you're going to need before making the transition. |
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Post by couchtrader on Nov 6, 2016 3:16:22 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2016 3:17:44 GMT -5
WSP and Brit bots are unable to go into low silver without being practically useless. Also, it seems that the matchmaker page needs to be updated again... Haven't really been active, and I'm pretty much playing it by ear for another official MM announcement from pix, sorry Strayed lol Since it's all happenstance/theoretical, and the only -somewhat- major change seems to be to heavy bot scoring (they still shoot marshmallows imho) the scale remains the same, and caveats are all that need changing. |
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Post by Strayed on Nov 6, 2016 3:27:11 GMT -5
It's fine, lol.
That was more for me. Finally got some free time from all the tests.
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tttt
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Post by tttt on Nov 6, 2016 19:25:37 GMT -5
Just so I understand this...
Assuming a balanced hanger, say your hanger score is based on a 6/8 conventional heavy.
According to the chart, that would make your hanger score 735. In that balanced hanger, your lights would be 12/12 and mediums could be 7/11. That's without wsp bots.
If that heavy was also a wsp bot, though, you would add 20% to your score, getting 882.
At 882 - again, assuming balanced hangers - you either face other balanced hangers with wsp bots of 6/8 heavies or hangers of all conventional bots of 12/12 mediums and about 5/12, 7/11, 9/10 heavies.
So how often are you going to run into hangers of all conventional bots at those levels? I'm guessing by that time they've purchased a wsp bot or two, so if you're running a balanced hanger, you're likely going to see hangers around the same level.
The question I have is whether the highest bot score of 1,015 (12/12 heavies) is the ceiling, which would mean the wsp penalty essentially ends at 90:H:4/12, 6/11, 8/10: 855?
With a 20% penalty, you would score above the top number.
Is that correct?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2016 19:58:47 GMT -5
Yes, that's correct. Take into account that a win rate that isnt trash also increases your final MM score, which is why heavy, Wsp and britbots are actively shunned out of anything but high silver/low gold. After reaching a hangar score of about 800, you can expect to see 12/12 hangars somewhat regularly. Heavies should stay in the box until medium loadouts are 10/10, at that level, with proper load outs, games are fair.
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Post by 《₩hirl》 on Nov 25, 2016 6:29:58 GMT -5
This thread deserves a sticky. It's a highly resourceful guide that most of us refer to on a regular basis. It has helped me find that certain sweet spot across multiple tiers. Would be a shame for this to dissapear into the sands of long forgotten forum pages.
Sorry to Necropost, but this thread is worth it.
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Post by [ita]SirKenzoY2J on Nov 25, 2016 8:12:06 GMT -5
This thread deserves a sticky. It's a highly resourceful guide that most of us refer to on a regular basis. It has helped me find that certain sweet spot across multiple tiers. Would be a shame for this to dissapear into the sands of long forgotten forum pages. Sorry to Necropost, but this thread is worth it. i think need confirmation or adjustments, but it's the very best topic on this forum, i want to create an more accurate guide about ratings, tiers and bots penalities and how calculate it.... i need too much informations, maybe it's already online somewher |
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Nov 25, 2016 12:57:15 GMT -5
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Post by robocain on Nov 26, 2016 17:11:23 GMT -5
Being from Germany it's slightly difficult for me to understand all of these statistics. Did I do the math right on my hangar?
Gareth 6, Taran 7, Magnum 7
405 + 20% = 486
Galahad 6, Taran 6, 2x Magnum 6
510 + 20% = 612
Rogatka 6, 2x Orkan 7
550
Vityaz 6, Thunder 8, 2x Magnum 8
590
So Galahad is my strongest bot and I can upgrade the other bots to get them closer to 612 points, right?
Gareth could be 8/11 at 605.
Rogatka and Vityaz could be 7/8 at 610.
Is that correct or do I have to modify the math due to my AU and WSP weapons? How about a penalty on Rogatka because it's an AU bot? Maybe someone can lead me into the right direction in case I misunderstood this complicated stuff...lol.
Cheers
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Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Nov 26, 2016 17:24:37 GMT -5
Being from Germany it's slightly difficult for me to understand all of these statistics. Did I do the math right on my hangar? Gareth 6, Taran 7, Magnum 7 405 + 20% = 486 Galahad 6, Taran 6, 2x Magnum 6 510 + 20% = 612 Rogatka 6, 2x Orkan 7 550 Vityaz 6, Thunder 8, 2x Magnum 8 590 So Galahad is my strongest bot and I can upgrade the other bots to get them closer to 612 points, right? Gareth could be 8/11 at 605. Rogatka and Vityaz could be 7/8 at 610. Is that correct or do I have to modify the math due to my AU and WSP weapons? How about a penalty on Rogatka because it's an AU bot? Maybe someone can lead me into the right direction in case I misunderstood this complicated stuff...lol. Cheers if you use Brit bots (Lancelot, galahad & Gareth) or WSP bots in your hangar, there is a 20% penalty that applies to your HIGHEST RATED BOT, so the penalty is applied to your Vityaz, pushing you into high silver. The Rogatka does not carry a MM penalty, so if you remove your Galahad and Gareth you will be in low silver. If you want to use your Gareth and galahad though I would recommend levelling all of your bots to 6/8 and your Gareth to around 7/9 to be placed in high silver. |
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Post by robocain on Nov 26, 2016 17:49:23 GMT -5
Okay thanks for pointing that out. So I should do it like this?
Vityaz 6/8 with penalty > 708
Rogatka 8/10 > 710
Galahad 8/10 > 710
Gareth 11/12 > 705
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dgaf
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Post by dgaf on Nov 26, 2016 18:50:55 GMT -5
Okay thanks for pointing that out. So I should do it like this? Vityaz 6/8 with penalty > 708 Rogatka 8/10 > 710 Galahad 8/10 > 710 Gareth 11/12 > 705 The 20% applies to your highest 'base' score so in the above it would apply to your rog or gal as its base value is greater than your vityaz. |
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Post by robocain on Nov 26, 2016 20:32:18 GMT -5
Okay thanks for pointing that out. So I should do it like this? Vityaz 6/8 with penalty > 708 Rogatka 8/10 > 710 Galahad 8/10 > 710 Gareth 11/12 > 705 The 20% applies to your highest 'base' score so in the above it would apply to your rog or gal as its base value is greater than your vityaz. The above shows what my hangar would look like after I upgraded stuff. The more I think about it, the more it confuses me. Currently it looks like this: Vityaz 590 Rogatka 550 Galahad 510 Gareth 405 Vityaz gets the 20% penalty as it has the highest base score. So Vityaz ends up having a score of 708 after the 20% penalty was added. This far it all makes sense to me. Now comes the confusing part. When I start upgrading the other bots, they'll soon have a higher base score than Vityaz and thus the penalty is added to a different bot. Example: I upgrade Galahad to a base score of 700, so I have to add the 20% to him instead of Vityaz. 700 + 20% = 840. So Vityaz would be back at 590 and it would totally grow out of proportion. So there would always be a loser bot in the hangar as the penalty gets thrown around while I upgrade stuff. Is this correct or is the boring nightshift making me plain stupid. |
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Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Nov 26, 2016 20:36:51 GMT -5
Well what really happens is your entire hangar is penalised, but the only thing that really matters is the scoring of your highest rated bot, as that is what the match maker takes into consideration. The reason we say it penalises your highest base average bot is because that is the bot the matchmaker will be evaluating when deciding what tier game to place you in for a match.
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Post by drcreecher on Nov 26, 2016 23:35:20 GMT -5
So I'm fairly new to the game in the sense that I haven't played in a long time, and I understand a lot of the nuances of the game. But this tier thing has me confused. I enjoy capping beacons so to get back into it I was gonna run 4 cossacks at 2/2. Everyt I me I play, I get demolished by trebs and mags and lvl 6-8 bots with lvl 8-10 weapons. Why is my hanger getting paired with such a high level discrepency?
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Post by 《₩hirl》 on Nov 26, 2016 23:40:23 GMT -5
Example: I upgrade Galahad to a base score of 700, so I have to add the 20% to him instead of Vityaz. 700 + 20% = 840. So Vityaz would be back at 590 and it would totally grow out of proportion. So there would always be a loser bot in the hangar as the penalty gets thrown around while I upgrade stuff. Is this correct or is the boring nightshift making me plain stupid. This is correct, but allow me to clarify. What all this scoring boils down to is that the 20% penalty applied to (for example) your 700point(840point with penalty) Vityaz means that you are going to be placed in matches with and/or against 840point hangars. When/if you upgrade something else and it rates higher than your Vit, the penalty shifts to that bot, and adjusts MM accordingly. In basic terms, no matter what you do, if you're using ANY penalty bot, your teammates and opponents will be on average 20% stronger than you. 30% if your winrate is over 60%. |
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Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Nov 26, 2016 23:41:22 GMT -5
So I'm fairly new to the game in the sense that I haven't played in a long time, and I understand a lot of the nuances of the game. But this tier thing has me confused. I enjoy capping beacons so to get back into it I was gonna run 4 cossacks at 2/2. Everyt I me I play, I get demolished by trebs and mags and lvl 6-8 bots with lvl 8-10 weapons. Why is my hanger getting paired with such a high level discrepency? if you are running Cossacks with a taran or hydra, it would be putting you with the 4/6 light bots. As for the heavy bots you are seeing, it seems to be a glitch that occurs at times where it will continue to match you into higher tiers for a while. Should wear off in a few games. |
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Post by drcreecher on Nov 26, 2016 23:53:38 GMT -5
So I'm fairly new to the game in the sense that I haven't played in a long time, and I understand a lot of the nuances of the game. But this tier thing has me confused. I enjoy capping beacons so to get back into it I was gonna run 4 cossacks at 2/2. Everyt I me I play, I get demolished by trebs and mags and lvl 6-8 bots with lvl 8-10 weapons. Why is my hanger getting paired with such a high level discrepency? if you are running Cossacks with a taran or hydra, it would be putting you with the 4/6 light bots. As for the heavy bots you are seeing, it seems to be a glitch that occurs at times where it will continue to match you into higher tiers for a while. Should wear off in a few games. I'm running cossacks with lvl 2 punisher T. I went bare bones. And consistently getting dominated after 6 games. Maybe it is just a glitch, I'll keep running games to see if it corrects. But I'm significantly outmatched every game as of now |
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Post by 《₩hirl》 on Nov 26, 2016 23:59:05 GMT -5
What's your winrate and average damage?
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Post by drcreecher on Nov 27, 2016 0:13:33 GMT -5
Currently really low 40k dog and 50% and only getting lower with this setup right now. So with what I'm running what should I be seeing in game?
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Post by 《₩hirl》 on Nov 27, 2016 0:45:54 GMT -5
In that case I think MM has lost the plot. All signs point to "You should be against Low Bronze" but evidently not. Just follow Camp and keep at it.
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Dunk Mujunk
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Post by Dunk Mujunk on Nov 27, 2016 9:42:46 GMT -5
I cannot tell you how badly I want to understand this. |
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Nov 27, 2016 12:05:57 GMT -5
Simple in concept, but the devil is in the details.
The 20% thing is only if you want to do the hard math. Just realize that having any robot that cost Work Shop Points in your hanger will get you shoved into higher tier matches, as does having a win rate over 60%.
The Matchmaker calculates using the strongest bot in your hanger, period. As humans, we have to do the math to figure out which bot is strongest, then upgrade the rest of our bots to match our strongest. That's the simple part.
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