debasir
Destrier
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Post by debasir on Jan 3, 2017 20:27:27 GMT -5
One of the speculated ninja tweaks is that MM is now using the higher level between bot/weapons. No one plays with bot lv= weapon level, so it's hard to say. My 5/5 mediums see light bots up to 4/9 (geps obv) but only if there aren't any rogs present. Mindless heavies make hangars hard to place (40% win rates and the like) As long as a year ago this was true. 6/7 mediums mixed with 2/11 lights pushed my hangar to gold. Full hangar of 6/7 mediums was silver. Full hangar 2/11 geps was silver. Mixed together in any combination was gold. Certain combinations the match maker doesn't like. This was during the time WSP penalty was implemented. Ran a 6/8 stalker with the 6/7 mediums. Silver until one day it wasn't anymore, removed the stalker and back to silver.
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karljackson
Destrier
Posts: 120
Karma: 28
Platform: Android
League: Champion
Server Region: North America
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Post by karljackson on Jan 3, 2017 20:28:06 GMT -5
Once again, I still see 8/8 Rhinos and such when I switch to 3/8 Golems and Rogs. Not That much different than what I see with my 9/10 gold hanger. I have tried several times to field a silver hanger since the MM tweaks during the Halloween update. It seems if your average damage is 400k or more, you get 8/8 WSP bots all day long. Even if your win percentage is 40%. Silver tier has been totally farg'd, IMO. This is my opposition from my most recent "silver" 3/8 Golem battle.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 1:13:42 GMT -5
Once again, I still see 8/8 Rhinos and such when I switch to 3/8 Golems and Rogs. Not That much different than what I see with my 9/10 gold hanger. I have tried several times to field a silver hanger since the MM tweaks during the Halloween update. It seems if your average damage is 400k or more, you get 8/8 WSP bots all day long. Even if your win percentage is 40%. Silver tier has been totally farg'd, IMO. This is my opposition from my most recent "silver" 3/8 Golem battle. What is your average damage and win%?
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Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Jan 4, 2017 3:07:27 GMT -5
I guess the goal is to push people to gold tier as quickly as possible. If you become good enough to average over 400k damage, your going to gold whether you like it or not. this doesnt work though, if they made all tiers not enjoyable to play aside from gold, they will be doing more harm than good, effectively pushing many players away from the game due to greedy development strategies.
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karljackson
Destrier
Posts: 120
Karma: 28
Platform: Android
League: Champion
Server Region: North America
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Post by karljackson on Jan 4, 2017 17:03:48 GMT -5
This is my opposition from my most recent "silver" 3/8 Golem battle. What is your average damage and win%? At that point, average damage was 385k and win % was 46. My damage dropped significantly as I was trying to find a reliable silver hanger.
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Post by lephturn on Jan 12, 2017 16:54:27 GMT -5
THis really needs to get pinned to the top...
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Post by kchan4487 on Jan 12, 2017 18:31:32 GMT -5
THis really needs to get pinned to the top... Actually no. On the Discord chat, the insider said that the new match maker coming this month will work in an entirely different way.
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Jan 12, 2017 18:57:43 GMT -5
Agreed, the next matchmaker system is supposed to be based on Mr. Elo's works. It's a little sad to realize that all my hard maths and struggles to balance my hanger will (hopefully) become a moot point soon.
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Post by moody on Jan 12, 2017 19:08:30 GMT -5
Yep. No use pinning with the countdown in day rather than weeks.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2017 19:35:38 GMT -5
Yep, everyone outta start evening out their bot & weapon levels now. If the new systemis truly going to be based on offensive performance (victories) y'all can kiss 4/6, 4/9, and 4/12 set ups goodbye
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Post by zman on Jan 13, 2017 0:00:10 GMT -5
Yep, everyone outta start evening out their bot & weapon levels now. If the new systemis truly going to be based on offensive performance (victories) y'all can kiss 4/6, 4/9, and 4/12 set ups goodbye It will be interesting. I'm leveling towards 9/10 right now. I wish we had more details!
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Post by couchtrader on Jan 13, 2017 0:11:09 GMT -5
Yep, everyone outta start evening out their bot & weapon levels now. If the new systemis truly going to be based on offensive performance (victories) y'all can kiss 4/6, 4/9, and 4/12 set ups goodbye My buddy was telling me about this but I couldn't find the article. Link please?
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Post by kchan4487 on Jan 13, 2017 0:32:20 GMT -5
Yep, everyone outta start evening out their bot & weapon levels now. If the new systemis truly going to be based on offensive performance (victories) y'all can kiss 4/6, 4/9, and 4/12 set ups goodbye My buddy was telling me about this but I couldn't find the article. Link please? There's no article that I know of. I was in the Discord channel of this forum though when the insider gave us info. It's going to be skill based. Apparently based on win rate. AFAIK it's similar to how games like CoC bump you up or dow a tier depending on how many losses or wins you rack up over time.
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hedgehog
Destrier
Posts: 14
Karma: 8
Pilot name: HEDGEHOG
Platform: Android
Clan: Thunderstorm, ID 33130
League: Champion
Server Region: Europe
Favorite robot: Inquisitor
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Post by hedgehog on Jan 13, 2017 3:27:51 GMT -5
But... If I run hangar with heavys 6/9 and my win percent is above 80% - what enemies will I face??? 10/10? 「whiskey tango foxtrot」, it's not fair. I hate when MM bump me in higher tier beacause of my winrate. Could someone please to explain me the basics of the new MM system? I really need to be aware how to prepare my hangar for the update.
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Post by couchtrader on Jan 13, 2017 3:50:31 GMT -5
But... If I run hangar with heavys 6/9 and my win percent is above 80% - what enemies will I face??? 10/10? 「whiskey tango foxtrot」, it's not fair. I hate when MM bump me in higher tier beacause of my winrate. Could someone please to explain me the basics of the new MM system? I really need to be aware how to prepare my hangar for the update. the posts were just speculation. The last official statement I read from Pixonic regarding MM was first quarter of 2017. They also stated that it wasn't a priority at the time they announced it back in August.
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Post by frunobulax on Jan 13, 2017 7:37:32 GMT -5
But new MM or not, those hiccups of the matchmaking are just that, hiccups that occur rarely. BTW, this post gives a semi-official release date of 1-2 weeks (Android/IOS).
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FunkenA
GI. Patton
Iron Pirates clan ID 19488. 4 slots and 200 cups minimum, and involved in chat. use line app to comm
Posts: 143
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Post by FunkenA on Jan 13, 2017 15:35:38 GMT -5
But... If I run hangar with heavys 6/9 and my win percent is above 80% - what enemies will I face??? 10/10? 「whiskey tango foxtrot」, it's not fair. I hate when MM bump me in higher tier beacause of my winrate. Could someone please to explain me the basics of the new MM system? I really need to be aware how to prepare my hangar for the update. yeah that would be a worse system then we have now... The only reason I'm not fighting gold right now is because no matter what gold hangar I'm loading I always end up against players who are 10/10 or higher. My gold hangars are 6/9, 6/10-12, and 9/10-12... No matter what i did I always end up against players clearly stronger. I don't mind challenges but I do not like to be out matched.. Out skilled is respect, but out matched is just frustrating So I'm farming silver and building 12/12 hangar and with more than 5 options.... guess I will continue to farm lower and wait for sed update and be ready for it... but if this is there new system it will fail quickly IMO.. there has to be more to it then just win percentage
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Post by zman on Jan 13, 2017 15:47:46 GMT -5
But... If I run hangar with heavys 6/9 and my win percent is above 80% - what enemies will I face??? 10/10? 「whiskey tango foxtrot」, it's not fair. I hate when MM bump me in higher tier beacause of my winrate. Could someone please to explain me the basics of the new MM system? I really need to be aware how to prepare my hangar for the update. yeah that would be a worse system then we have now... The only reason I'm not fighting gold right now is because no matter what gold hangar I'm loading I always end up against players who are 10/10 or higher. My gold hangars are 6/9, 6/10-12, and 9/10-12... No matter what i did I always end up against players clearly stronger. I don't mind challenges but I do not like to be out matched.. Out skilled is respect, but out matched is just frustrating So I'm farming silver and building 12/12 hangar and with more than 5 options.... guess I will continue to farm lower and wait for sed update and be ready for it... but if this is there new system it will fail quickly IMO.. there has to be more to it then just win percentage What was your win rate? You might have been getting tiered way up because of it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2017 20:55:21 GMT -5
Projections of the new MM system point to it being a hybrid of Hangar score and elo.
Elo is a scaling system that uses points to determine your expected performance. There will liably be some extra modifiers due to this being a team game. However, the system grants points based on expected performance/outcome vs actual performance. Underdog wins give more points than beating players/teams at your general rating. Win/loss percentage will more or less be 45-55% once you're properly placed. Newbs will be the only players that will hit much less, upper level players will be the only ones truly capable of hitting percentages higher than that.
Lets say that the current MM scale posting is the base hangar rating for bots/weapons, with 75 (1/1 lights) being the lowest possible base value, and 1015 (12/12 heavies) being the max.
With this scale, one or two levels can boost any intermediate score by 20-60. Each rating, if measured numerically at whole number intervals, comes out to about 100 microtiers(with certain variations from stable 1/1, 2/2 having equivalents). With these 100 microtiers, MM will usually reach ten bracket numbers in either direction. With this in mind, a single level can pull in highly unfavorable adversaries.
Now, lets take elo, which uses a point system, not a sole win %, to modify your placement, and add it on to that. Instead of 100 mictotiers, you now have exponentially more, as the final score that would be used to place you will be anywhere betweeen 1070 (70 for 1/1 light bots,1000 elo is the lowest I've seen in any game that uses it) and about 3800 (approx 1k for 12/12 heavies,2800 being more or less the highest elo Ive seen).
Create number brackets of realistic MM scores, and you have leagues.
What this means, is that a 4/12 hangar will have the same base hangar rating as a 8/8 hangar of the same weight class. But, with elo in play, both of these hangars can(and should) approximately reach a 50% win rate, while if the difference in performance is large enough, they will not see each other. The reason being, while both hangars have a hangar strength of 500, the 8/8 player would(could) have an elo rating of 15xx (20xx total) while the 4/12 player would (could) have an elo of 19xx (24xx total).
Take this effect, and multiply it by the amount of players online, and the different base values from hangar to hangar, and you have a system where all manner of bots and weapons can be in a single game, but the expected outcome is as close to 50/50 as mathematically possible.
Yes, everyone desperately grabbing their e-peen at their 100% win rate will likely be disappointed, BUT we will never have the Gepard debate again, and matches will be far more engaging than "omg teammates","GET DA BEACONS", and "「whiskey tango foxtrot」 4 MINUTE LOSS?"
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Post by kchan4487 on Jan 13, 2017 21:12:18 GMT -5
But... If I run hangar with heavys 6/9 and my win percent is above 80% - what enemies will I face??? 10/10? 「whiskey tango foxtrot」, it's not fair. I hate when MM bump me in higher tier beacause of my winrate. Could someone please to explain me the basics of the new MM system? I really need to be aware how to prepare my hangar for the update. It's not just going to be based on win rate alone, at least based on what was talked about in the discord chat. They're probably going to use other stats like average damage and kills along with win rate. The term used was 'skill'. They will take other factors in. An example given was how they won't necessarily put a hangar of 4/7 destriers in the same game as 12/12 Furys despite having the same win rate. They said they'll make the matchmaker balance players based on skill. Basically the insider didn't give much info apart from how bot levels will still be a factor, but the main considerations would be based on 'player skill'. Currently the only parameters we have for skill is win rate + ave damage + ave kills. So most likely, they'll put you in games where the other players have the same ave damage and kills and win rate as you. Emphasis on words probably, and most likely.
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Post by amoebastudios on Jan 13, 2017 22:30:59 GMT -5
Win rate is easily manipulated down by losing. Just like how easy it was to drop rank in CoC.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2017 23:40:22 GMT -5
Win rate is easily manipulated down by losing. Just like how easy it was to drop rank in CoC. The elo system is a lot harder to game than a simple win/loss rating. In a game where players beat on lower players explicitly for rewards, it boils down to the part where actively trying to lose for hours isn't worth having max winnings for the same amount of time, the win/loss factor would be about the same as if one just played normally. An elo system, even without changing rewards, will pretty much force people to just 'git gud' where their skill and gear gets them placed in fair matches. Ie: 4/12 gepard player plays 1/1 destriers and actively bottoms out their Elo(say lowest posssible score including bot level is 1070). Player switches back to 4/12 geps (+500 MM rating, bringinh them to 1500) MM then "thinks" player's 4/12 geps are at a disadvantage, and for every match won, awards the player 3-4 times the elo points that their 1500 score hangar would earn if their score was 1500(200 (hangar points)+ 1300 (elo)) until their winning streak drives their elo high enough to balance their victory chances back down to 50/50. Time invested in losing, for an hour tops of 10Au, won't be worth it opposed to gittin gud and winning the top spot 50%-60% of the time against opponents determined by the system to be on equal footing.
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