Skill vs P2W in War Robots

Now... that being said, there IS a skill and it's how you manage resources, use patiencr and make the most of every asset uou can to build a good hangar.

If skill, tactics, awareness and the like were factors in this game, I'd have a chance defeating a Spectre player with my Cossack. But I don't. War Robots is 100% about equipment and power level, not about skill level.

As some of you might know, I moved over to PUBG and there, one well-aimed shot using a crappy pistol will drop the enemy no matter what items he has. There is no way I can pull of the same in War Robots.

But if I have a rog I do have a chance at getting that spectre. More so if I have a haechi. And if the two spectres are identical than somewhere and to some degree, skill has to enter the equation.

Of course as you approach an equilibrium of equipment, the tide turns towards skill again. Never denied that. 

In every league once one leaves low gold you will always gave higher gear and bots. Skills and resources management (another skill perhaps) get you going up. Skills like tactical sense and situational awareness

I'm a 100% free 14 months player, I voted 100% skill.

Skill and p2w are not the same thing to compare, but Ill still say something. p2w gets a head start and will never meet skilled free player until later on when they both entering end game.

If you say 2 players start at the same day.
one use his Cossack vs the other bought a Haechi with 3 scourges. That's pointless to ask.

I'm talking about long term resources and build management, that's a skill far more important than in battle skill. You might lose in a 1v1, but it doesn't matter at all.
Out battle skill will give you a better hangar, it basically gives you a P2W hat that other poor macro management player assumed you are p2w because faster hangar progression.

I'm still not clear what this thread is asking, what defines success or failure? Maybe set some standards to compare? Like skilled free play vs medium p2w players hangar strength after a year? Or skilled player using griffin vs p2w using Haechi 1v1 same level?

Personally I took the question to mean equal setups..

The most direct comparison I can think of is when my lv 10/9/9/9 haechi orkan runs into lv12/12/12/12 (mk 1, mk2 is even worse)
The other guy has a 2 level bot advantage and 3 level weapon advantage and i'll save you the trouble of looking it up.

3 lv12 orkans is the same as 4 lv9 orkans (or pretty close anyway) (mk1)

Can you win? yes.. but it's not easy, sheer firepower match up will not work.. the difference is skill.. let me tell you what usually happens.

Haechi have anicle
ancile blocks orkans
orkans are burst weapons and take time to reload
anciles regen at like 3% rate (I think fujin faster)

I have a few options, try to splash them down, fire when they're not looking, or dive in and go face to face where shields don't matter.

Well splash is problematic because splash takes time to work.. all the while this person is probably trying the same on me and anciles are difficult to protect because of their huge radius.

He can take mine down with more reserve orkans left over, so a dog fight is a hard one to win if they're any kind of pilot, we're both fully aware of the other, and it becomes down to maneuvering and positioning.. with both bots having equal speed.
He can afford to miss more shots then I can, I not only need to have greater hit rates to make up for lower damage but I also must avoid more of his shots since they inflict more damage.

Direct fire while the other player is unaware (ambush) is a possibility, in such cases you can even dash in and avoid the shield.. problem is while the haechi is a good bot it's ground speed is still not very fast.. 43.. and if im stalking this person Im probably using my dashes.. unless he stops moving I can not catch him any other way.. it's difficult to sneak up on a haechi with another haechi.

If I do not dash in to negate the shield and pump them in the back I have to eat their shield and we're left with a problem.
Orkans are great at burst damage, they're great at ambushing.. but he has a 2 lv bot advantage. and I have a 3 level weapon disadvantage.

his shield is 68k, my orkans do 45k cycle damage, that's assuming I land every rocket and none of them get bugged.

when multple rockets hit a ancile sometimes they don't get counted.. EX: ever had a nuker hit your barely working ancile and you suffer zero damage? there is no overkill a kill shot on a ancile takes the ancile down it doesn't spill over.

Anyway so My total cycle damage with 3 lv9 orkans is 137.28k damage, keep this number in mind this is the maximum amount of potential damage I can do.

So I eat thru his ancile, every orkan hits, and is accounted for correctly.. Im down to 69.28k of lasting damage potential
His HP is 150k, taking them down to 80.72k hp

EDIT: If I dash in and avoid the ancile I can do the full 137k which leaves them with 13k HP left and a full ancile.

I have to retreat.. granted I did a full 137k and If I delivered that point blanks it's almost enough.
But I can not take this enemy whole, I will have to play cover games, if we
both have dashes charged I can not out run them, If I dashed in past the
ancile Im at point blank with no way to escape, perhaps I can back off,
let my ancile take effect but they get the same benefit and im out of
ammo.

Let's look at what return fire look like for me.

Let's assume the enemy still has their weapons intact.
Let's look at the fire from a distance first

His cycle damage potential is: 181.44k
My ancile is: 60k
My hp is: 133k
My total sustainable damage is: 193k

Here's an interesting thing.. he can take down my ancile and do as much damage to me at range as I can to him point blank (bypassing his ancile)
at range im left with 12k hp, where as at range against him he has 80k hp (because 68k roughly half of my total damage potential /per cycle.. or 1.5 [lv9] orkans)

If they return fire at point blank they need little less than 3/4's of a orkan cycle to kill me off.. about 3 seconds

Usually I will deal with this mismatch by stalking the haechi, letting them engage someone else and then dashing in for a point blank kill.
I try to keep 1 dash in reserve for escape though, because despite the Haechi being a dash bot it's not particular fast and very vulnerable in the open, especially without dash.
The Haechi is a ambush predator, not an assault mech.

Of course going point blank while the target is aware is suicide, he can kill me faster than I can kill him.. and if he has even 1 dash charged he can pull back from point blank, rip into me and I have no escape.

Sidebar: Of course I will dash into lance and fujin even if they're aware of me because lance physical shield dont' matter, the ancile is nullified, they can not out run me, and most are armed with tarans which while deadly are slower than my fast burst orkans, fujins are weak and go down quick once in their shield, so they're not a big threat dashing in, most of the time they're too frazzled by the bum rush to aim accurately anyway.

but 1on1 which is really what matters for the sake of discussion you can see how only a 2 bot level advantage and a 3lv weapon disadvantage can make it a real up hill climb.. get's even worse if it's lv12 mk2 and then you add in boosters? exactly how much skill do I need to make up for this?
I'd also point out that the disadvantage is compounded because not only do you have weaker weapons but the enemy also has greater which you must diminish, the reverse is true for the enemy... they have both greater firepower and greater armor.

Now someone's gonna say well X Y Z mirror match is harder or easier, maybe maybe, but this is a particular example I face quite often.. anyone with a lv12 hanger (mk1 or 2) in ffa probably has a haechi, if not a spec.. in some ways spec's are a easier matchup because spec's kill everything.. doesn't really matter.. but they don't have a shield I have to eat thru on top of everything.

Haechi/Spec fight is over very quickly.. never had one go into cover games.. either they miss and I kill them or im flat on the ground by the time they land.
In a way the Haechi is deadlier to me because of the regenerating ancile, and even though less armed than a spec still has a huge firepower advantage.
(Remember what I said 3 lv12 orkans = 4 lv9 orkans, so a lv12 haechi is as dangerous as a lv9 spec from a firepower perspective)

I consider my self a good pilot, im not the best by a long shot but given level ground I'd say im better than avg.
Those of you who can overcome 40 and 50% disadvantages, my hat's off to ya.

Skill does only apply if both hangar strength is equal the same otherwise anyone can steam roll a lower tier player.

Of course skill is a factor, but it's only a variable in the overall equation of success.

That said if you give 2 players the exact same bot and weapon levels in the exact same conditions the better player will win or perform better.

If a squad with all level 12 gear is essentially 21% "better" than a squad in fully mk2 gear, the non-mk2 squad should win... there's way too many variable to pin that down. If a team starts in all orkan haechi against a squad running heavy plasma to start then it doesn't matter how much better you are.

I see many whales in Android Champ. Those with all the gear and only 1000 wins
Those guys have no skills and get beaten fairly quickly.

Now on the other hand, there are many P2W players at the top whom have top notch skills. There is no arguing that


P2W doesn't affect me that much. I am F2P and have amassed some good gear through WSP and royale playing (prior to this new royale setup). In fact, I quit trying to acquire stuff. I am already log jammed trying to upgrade what I have.

I keep seeing the claim that tactics I'm this game is diminished or and afterthought or whatever. Let's me know people have no idea what the definition of tactics is.

Skill is another thing. The pace of the game is quicker. The range of the weapons used is now further. Skill levels have not diminished...just shifted. The skills needed now is evasion instead of engagement.

Just a flip, but nowhere near diminished.

“Skill” used to be a thing in this game before it was monetized. Nowadays skill has become convoluted by all the OP gear, etc...
I like to think that after playing 40K or so matches that I can recognize a skilled pilot when going up against one, regardless of what gear he is using.
Observing things like the way he moves, how aware he is, how precise his jumps are, how he uses cover, accuracy, etc...

Example: All the new stealth jumpers entering the game seem to make the same mistakes over and over to where I just bait them into making a bad jump then pounce on them once stealth has warn off. 

Im sure after awhile the “skilled” guys will learn from their mistakes and adjust their tactics if they want to improve.
But how many of them just don’t care about skill and just want the action?

All the money in the world would not buy you any skill... even more with the terrible matchmaking..
There are skilled pilots competing in champion league with lvl 10 bots and weapons against full mk2 reds..

But then again.. if you just want to have fun.. and you have the money..