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Post by DarkVagabond on Jan 22, 2018 2:14:35 GMT -5
I am genuinely surprised how many forumites think Inquisitor is superior. I really can’t agree. Since being in Champion League since September mobility has been one of the few things that has kept me there with my lvl 9 bots vs Mk2 weapons. ... DV - do you run an Inquistor in your hangar or use high level Embers? I don't see the Haechi as a highly mobile bot against an Ember. The Kumi and Gareth are mobile - the Haechi is just not hard at all to hit with an Ember (how is it any more mobile than a Bulgasari really). The Inquistor's great strength currently is the ability to unleash a full salvo of Ember without getting any return fire - wasn't the Ember made specifically for the Inquistor in the first place? Haechi is great, but it's definitely not what I'd consider a highly mobile platform --- to the point where it can assualt a bot that is carrying an Ember (a weapon that no Haechi knifer setup has advantage over and a weapon that is optimized when on an Inquistor). I confirm I do not own an Inquisitor or an Ember, which is why I haven’t said the Inquisitor is INFERIOR to the Haechi. However, one cannot discount my observations based on this. I come across Inquisitors in every single game i play. I actively observe when a talented Inquisitor pilot is selecting jump locations that are above or below the natural firing lines of bots and agree they are unkillable - when I’m in my Lancelot. This is not my experience when I’m in my Haechi, which is why I can’t support the statement that Haechi is inferior to an Inquisitor. The reason why I consider Haechi a mobile platform is because a good dash pilot is never more than one dash away from a good cover location. Give me a second dash and I can rotate advantageously around that cover location (or even to another) in the rare event I get ambushed unexpectedly by a stealth jump. And since I often pilot my Haechi like a more nimble version of my Lancelot (saving my rush/dash and not out in the open), I’m very comfortable going against an Ember Inquisitor since a dash is a superior manoeuvre to rush, especially when you have positioned yourself correctly. nix can also confirm this as we sometimes squad together and I’ve seen him do it several times as well, even in a Bulgasari. With only a 10 second dash reload on the Haechi, I am ready to use it offensively when the Inquisitor is trying to scamper to cover once it’s stealth has worn off. He can run, but from a Haechi he can’t hide. The only small advantage he has in this case is using the cornershooting advantage with the ember while retreating around a corner.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2018 2:47:43 GMT -5
DV - do you run an Inquistor in your hangar or use high level Embers? I don't see the Haechi as a highly mobile bot against an Ember. The Kumi and Gareth are mobile - the Haechi is just not hard at all to hit with an Ember (how is it any more mobile than a Bulgasari really). The Inquistor's great strength currently is the ability to unleash a full salvo of Ember without getting any return fire - wasn't the Ember made specifically for the Inquistor in the first place? Haechi is great, but it's definitely not what I'd consider a highly mobile platform --- to the point where it can assualt a bot that is carrying an Ember (a weapon that no Haechi knifer setup has advantage over and a weapon that is optimized when on an Inquistor). I confirm I do not own an Inquisitor or an Ember, which is why I haven’t said the Inquisitor is INFERIOR to the Haechi. However, one cannot discount my observations based on this. I come across Inquisitors in every single game i play. I actively observe when a talented Inquisitor pilot is selecting jump locations that are above or below the natural firing lines of bots and agree they are unkillable - when I’m in my Lancelot. This is not my experience when I’m in my Haechi, which is why I can’t support the statement that Haechi is inferior to an Inquisitor. The reason why I consider Haechi a mobile platform is because a good dash pilot is never more than one dash away from a good cover location. Give me a second dash and I can rotate advantageously around that cover location (or even to another) in the rare event I get ambushed unexpectedly by a stealth jump. And since I often pilot my Haechi like a more nimble version of my Lancelot (saving my rush/dash and not out in the open), I’m very comfortable going against an Ember Inquisitor since a dash is a superior manoeuvre to rush, especially when you have positioned yourself correctly. nix can also confirm this as we sometimes squad together and I’ve seen him do it several times as well, even in a Bulgasari. With only a 10 second dash reload on the Haechi, I am ready to use it offensively when the Inquisitor is trying to scamper to cover once it’s stealth has worn off. He can run, but from a Haechi he can’t hide. The only small advantage he has in this case is using the cornershooting advantage with the ember while retreating around a corner. Yes, this. The main advantage a dash bot has vs an inquisitor, in a 1 v 1 situation, is the ability to store two relatively quickly recharging dashes vs the inquisitors slow descend cooldown. What I meant by saying that the inquisitor can hope for a deadlock as best outcome is exactly this - if you use descend offensively vs someone that can dash to cover, you are basically dead unless you can land on the cover or use it similarly. Also agree (as was previously said) about pure 1 v 1 comparisons being somewhat pointless as most interactions take place when there are more bots on the board. Which is a slight advantage to the inquisitor.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2018 3:48:11 GMT -5
I am genuinely surprised how many forumites think Inquisitor is superior. I really can’t agree. Since being in Champion League since September mobility has been one of the few things that has kept me there with my lvl 9 bots vs Mk2 weapons. ... DV - do you run an Inquistor in your hangar or use high level Embers? I don't see the Haechi as a highly mobile bot against an Ember. The Kumi and Gareth are mobile - the Haechi is just not hard at all to hit with an Ember (how is it any more mobile than a Bulgasari really). The Inquistor's great strength currently is the ability to unleash a full salvo of Ember without getting any return fire - wasn't the Ember made specifically for the Inquistor in the first place? Haechi is great, but it's definitely not what I'd consider a highly mobile platform --- to the point where it can assualt a bot that is carrying an Ember (a weapon that no Haechi knifer setup has advantage over and a weapon that is optimized when on an Inquistor). Come on man, you can't say that the Haechi is not a highly mobile platform! It is EXTREMELY mobile, that's the key strenght of Dash bots.
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Post by LEGEND on May 21, 2018 12:26:23 GMT -5
This topic must have tons of similar threads, but here's my 2 cents. I have both Inquistor and Haechi leveled up to play in Masters/Champion level play. I try to play mostly Team Death Match, so both bots are set up as close range fighters. The Haechi is tri-Ork and the Inquisitor has Ember/Orks. I've run birth with Tatsns, but I am wary of the Taran glitch biting me again. Between the two, the Inquisitor performs consistently better due to the unload time being fully covered by the Descend jump's stealth. I was really good with a Griffin and you are basically unhittable if you can master the Descend jump attack where you land above or below the target's default weapons firing line. Honestly, a few hours of practice in Custom Mode with your Inquisitor will make you unhittable on the jump attack and there's can not much an opponent can do to stop me if I'm targeting you. Not that I don't like my Haechi, but its just not as versatile as the Inquistor IMHO. However, both bots and the Bulgasari are the best bots currently in the game. My only real slight on the Haechi is more of how I think it will stack up against the new Specter and the Strider. I don't think the Haechi will have much of a chance against a Specter with Tarans, Shocktrains, Scourges or the Strider with Ember/Magnums. The Inquistor (and Bulgasari) on the other hand will do fine against these 2 new bots. My gut feeling is that the Haechi (and Kumiho) will be seen as weak against Specter/Strider and I've stopped buying any component deals that feature the Haechi. I mostly agree with you, except for your ranking of the three bots Inquisitor, Bulgasari, and Haechi. I would rank it as show below, if I were to give them exact ranks, distinguishing and considering the superiority/inferiority between the three bots. From best to worst: Inquisitor ==> Bulgasari ==> Haechi The higher firepower, jump, and the stealth that the Inquisitor offers by far outweighs the dash and the shield Bulgasari offers, while the durable physical shield outperforms the rather fragile energy shield the Haechi has.
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Post by shivaswrath on May 21, 2018 13:14:46 GMT -5
I agree. Definitely use my one Inquisitor more than the Haechis.
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Post by MurXdoC on May 21, 2018 13:28:50 GMT -5
Here's a video I made of my Inquisitor vs an opponent's Haechi: VS Haechi i'm pretty sure redeemer would be far superior. Also that Haechi player probably won it from a bronze chest...It's just a very bad player
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Post by foxypotato on May 21, 2018 15:03:25 GMT -5
I face both bots regularly. My slow silver bots are a great prize to either of the bots. True walking bags of silver if they get ahold of me. That said, I fear no Inquisitior. If you don't let them pounce on you then you'll be just fine. They are slow and super squishy with low HP and a large hitbox. They are also vulnerable to splash and shotgun damage while stealthed.
The Haecheat is far more lethal with its worp ability, walking speed, ancile, 3 orkans, tiny hitbox and damage resistance to shotguns and vortex/aphid/thermite. It can sit there behind cover, teleport out, unload 3 orkans, take no damage from non energy weapons then teleport back to cover.
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Post by ancelot on May 21, 2018 15:10:17 GMT -5
Inquisitor is just a pure punching bag for orkan haechi lmao. You just need to fire a few rockets, inquisiotr will jump, let his stealth end, then prepare a nice funeral for him.
I'm sorry to all the inquisitors i've taken down using this method. You will be remembered.
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Post by windcaster on May 21, 2018 15:27:52 GMT -5
This is just me but personally I don't find the quiz all that great.
If the Quiz gets the jump on me and I don't see it coming.. ya they can clean my clock.. but so can just about everything else you don't see.
If I see a quiz coming.. I save up my dashes.. get near cover.. usually they will try to jump over cover and ambush you similar to how a griff will try to do.
1 dash around the corner.. wait out stealth.. 1 dash back.. unload orkans, or some variation of that.
You can hit a quiz in stealth but its' easier to just wait out their stealth if you can. some of them will try to save their stealth.. usually a few rockets at them will provoke a jump.. like a reflex. I see them do this in the middle of no where in canyon for exmaple.. fire a few tuls or orks.. they jump a lot of times.
I wouldn't trade my Haechi for 2 quiz.
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Post by LEGEND on May 21, 2018 15:29:51 GMT -5
Inquisitor is just a pure punching bag for orkan haechi lmao. You just need to fire a few rockets, inquisiotr will jump, let his stealth end, then prepare a nice funeral for him. I'm sorry to all the inquisitors i've taken down using this method. You will be remembered. Hey, when Exodus comes out, try that against an Exodus Orkan Inquisitor. Or even an Ember Taran Inquisitor right now. I bet it could take down your Haechi before its stealth even ends. I would prove it to you myself, but Exodus didn't come out, and I need 2k more components for my Ember.
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Post by soloist on May 21, 2018 15:58:07 GMT -5
I have both bots and have run both with multiple weapon loadouts. In my experience, haechi far outperforms inquisitor. Inquisitor is a good bot but slow and much easier to anticipate and bait than a haechi. People saying inquisitor is better one on one must be thinking the haechi is in the field on Springfield or somewhere else out in the open. Haechi is usually one dash from cover of some sort. Personally, I prefer my twin ember carnage over inquisitor.
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Post by ancelot on May 21, 2018 20:02:34 GMT -5
Inquisitor is just a pure punching bag for orkan haechi lmao. You just need to fire a few rockets, inquisiotr will jump, let his stealth end, then prepare a nice funeral for him. I'm sorry to all the inquisitors i've taken down using this method. You will be remembered. Hey, when Exodus comes out, try that against an Exodus Orkan Inquisitor. Or even an Ember Taran Inquisitor right now. I bet it could take down your Haechi before its stealth even ends. I would prove it to you myself, but Exodus didn't come out, and I need 2k more components for my Ember. Quizzy with exodus/orkan will be awesome, but it still has low hp, all i need to do is dash into cover, wait for stealth to end, dash back out and finish the job.
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Post by anjian on May 21, 2018 21:07:51 GMT -5
I find the Haechi a bit more versatile for its mobility, which lets me play it whether its BR or KoTH. The Inquisitor is the better ambusher. Lately I moved my two Haechis to my KoTH hanger, and two Inqs to my main hanger (BR and Domination mode).
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Post by LEGEND on May 21, 2018 21:30:59 GMT -5
Hey, when Exodus comes out, try that against an Exodus Orkan Inquisitor. Or even an Ember Taran Inquisitor right now. I bet it could take down your Haechi before its stealth even ends. I would prove it to you myself, but Exodus didn't come out, and I need 2k more components for my Ember. Quizzy with exodus/orkan will be awesome, but it still has low hp, all i need to do is dash into cover, wait for stealth to end, dash back out and finish the job. Barely any lower than Bulg's hp, and much higher than Haechi's
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Post by windcaster on May 21, 2018 22:34:05 GMT -5
150k vs 165k(lv12mk1).. not much higher imo.. I've noticed a lot of quiz like a ork loadout.. if that be the case haechi gains another 68k in ancile. I try to avoid energy users to max survival.. energy shield has saved me a lot of times in my haechi.
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Post by The VVatcher on May 21, 2018 23:33:31 GMT -5
No stat change with either bots since this thread was made, yet Inquisitor stock has gone up since then. The reason for this is Inquisitor flourishes the more stealth is on it’s team. When Spectre came out, Inquisitor became its Robin. Thus, the stealth meta is born.
Haechi since then is facing new counters. Dragoon, Ion, buffed Scourge, joined established counters Shocktrain, Zeus, and Tarans. All these energy weapons also made Bulgasari stock go up which was already going up since Shocktrain.
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Post by ancelot on May 22, 2018 3:14:20 GMT -5
Quizzy with exodus/orkan will be awesome, but it still has low hp, all i need to do is dash into cover, wait for stealth to end, dash back out and finish the job. Barely any lower than Bulg's hp, and much higher than Haechi's Haechi has ancile too, +60k at lvl 10. I'm telling ya, only way an inquisitor can kill me is if he attacks me from behind. When i jump out of cover to kill quizzy after his stealth ends, i lose 30-40k hp tops. Unless he has taran redeemer, in that case, i'll corner shoot him a bit ?. That's with lvl 12/12/10 orkans.
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Post by LEGEND on May 22, 2018 6:13:29 GMT -5
Barely any lower than Bulg's hp, and much higher than Haechi's Haechi has ancile too, +60k at lvl 10. I'm telling ya, only way an inquisitor can kill me is if he attacks me from behind. When i jump out of cover to kill quizzy after his stealth ends, i lose 30-40k hp tops. Unless he has taran redeemer, in that case, i'll corner shoot him a bit ?. That's with lvl 12/12/10 orkans. isn't enough to make up for the lack in firepower and the descend. And you can always use plasma instead.
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Post by ᥣᵃᵛᵃʲᵃᵛᵃ on May 22, 2018 6:58:41 GMT -5
I vote Haechi - but then I haven't got to grips with my Quizzy yet - and I was always a dreadful Griff pilot... I keep rotating my hanger - Haechi - Quizz - Bulg - and seem to always settle on the Haechi; but the increase in hard counters to the H that the VVatcher mentions above have got me lining up the B for upgrades (again)...
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Post by RightOn on May 22, 2018 6:59:05 GMT -5
HP and Speed are not much different
Quizo does have a bit more firepower
If we compare ability... descend is a massive leap that will save you 99%. Dash is frequently available to get out of the way
Ancile is 100% available wheras Stealth is really quick in duration, and since we can not separate stealth from jump, Haechi wins
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Post by ancelot on May 22, 2018 7:29:53 GMT -5
Haechi has ancile too, +60k at lvl 10. I'm telling ya, only way an inquisitor can kill me is if he attacks me from behind. When i jump out of cover to kill quizzy after his stealth ends, i lose 30-40k hp tops. Unless he has taran redeemer, in that case, i'll corner shoot him a bit ?. That's with lvl 12/12/10 orkans. isn't enough to make up for the lack in firepower and the descend. And you can always use plasma instead. Ancile makes haechi more durable, there were times where i just last whole match in haechi, in inquisitor you are lucky to take down 2 guys, then you die. With brawling setup that is. What you are talking about is direct encounter between haechi and quizzy, but good haechi pilot won't let inquisitor catch him in the open. If he does, then yes haechi will die, but only noob will let that happen. What i found to be a good setup for inquisitor is trident/tulumbas. It's awesome at pissing off the shocktrain bulg campers ?. I think it will always have a place in my hangar, well as long as bulgasaris are running arround with those 「really happy」 setups.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2018 8:50:10 GMT -5
Heh, somebody dug up this old thread and it's interesting to see how things changed since January.
Now I have two haechis and one inquisitor. While I'd still give edge to haechi I have a lot respect for inquisitors. Haechi is better general purpose bot while Inquisitor is more of an ambush hunter. I get beat by Inqui in haechi mostly when I just had another fight and my dash and/or ancile were depleted.
Inquisitor with tri/tulum is very interesting idea. Since on amazon there aren't that many bulgs yet I'm building my Inquisitor to have zeus/ scourge setup. Any thoughts on that one?
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Post by windcaster on May 22, 2018 10:41:42 GMT -5
Haechi has ancile too, +60k at lvl 10. I'm telling ya, only way an inquisitor can kill me is if he attacks me from behind. When i jump out of cover to kill quizzy after his stealth ends, i lose 30-40k hp tops. Unless he has taran redeemer, in that case, i'll corner shoot him a bit ?. That's with lvl 12/12/10 orkans. isn't enough to make up for the lack in firepower and the descend. And you can always use plasma instead. It is to me.. I guess it comes down to pilot skill then because I fear not descend in my dash bots unless we're in the middle of a field which I typically try to avoid. I fear no quiz.. If I see a jumping stealth or shocktrain fire.. those are my triggers.. I don't care about the match.. I don't care if you're half way across the map, im coming. and I win those fights in my haechi more than I loose. If im feeling particularly jaded, I might just leave you with a sliver of life, retreat to a safe distance and watch the sharks circle.
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Post by stonew on May 30, 2018 3:13:34 GMT -5
The Kumiho is better than both bots. I am completely with you
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Post by hellcatq on May 30, 2018 5:55:03 GMT -5
I like my inquisitor. I run the Zuess and shocktrain combo. I suspect ions would work well instead of shocktrains too. Due to the energy an range, Haechi generally stay away or get pretty hurt.
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Post by alubyansky on May 30, 2018 7:22:57 GMT -5
Eh... I don't think so. The only thing the Kumiho is better at is speed. In a pure 1v1, like a custom 1v1 match, no bot trait is more important than agility. A Kumiho can easily just widdle you away slowly, regardless of what you're using, simply because it can stay behind cover no matter what. In theory, yes. In practice, no. Except on the wiggliest spots on the tightest maps, Kumi ends up dashing a couple of times. Then it gets hit, maybe fires back. One more dash, same theatrics again, dead Kumi. The reason is the weak payload and low health. Kumiho's are potentially VERY annoying to the real dash/descend bots, but they are essentially nonlethal, unless the other guy is already at 50% or lower. Kumi's are great at either crippling or finishing off "bigger" bots.
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Post by ༒ƜƦƛƖƬӇ༒ on May 30, 2018 8:36:43 GMT -5
I own an Inquisitor and a 2-Bulg's and that faster Kumhio I got it all through the chests.. all leveled at 8. with weapons at lvl9 I am Diamond 3-2-3-2-3 I bounce between those two.. In my hanger 1 of those slots go to the Inquisitor 2 of them go to Dash Bots with the other two, depending on gameplay mood for the day.. I believe much of the dynamics change map to map though as a average I think the Haechi is a better bot, and the Bulgasari is SO dependent on the skill level of the person playing it.. knowing how to use its shield is huge.. Any map where I have a lot of lower level play area, I really like the Inquisitor's ability to hide, pop up do some smashing and then hide.. For me.. Dreadnought and the Ship maps are perfect for the Inquisitor.. But for my game play, those are the only two maps where I feel the inquisitor is the better bot.. Bulg and Haechi should pizz all over the Inq on the other maps, especially any Map with a lot of open space.. The Inquisitor is not nimble .. take that thing across a map and you are just a target.. Cheers
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Post by OrangeMegatron on May 30, 2018 8:50:23 GMT -5
Inquisitor is just a pure punching bag for orkan haechi lmao. You just need to fire a few rockets, inquisiotr will jump, let his stealth end, then prepare a nice funeral for him. I'm sorry to all the inquisitors i've taken down using this method. You will be remembered. I used to start my Haechi Orkans salvo 1-2 seconds after Inquisitor landed on my level. Even though it's stealthed all rockets hitting directly cause damage. When the stealth wears off he has 10% HP at the best...
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Post by OrangeMegatron on May 30, 2018 8:54:45 GMT -5
In a pure 1v1, like a custom 1v1 match, no bot trait is more important than agility. A Kumiho can easily just widdle you away slowly, regardless of what you're using, simply because it can stay behind cover no matter what. In theory, yes. In practice, no. Except on the wiggliest spots on the tightest maps, Kumi ends up dashing a couple of times. Then it gets hit, maybe fires back. One more dash, same theatrics again, dead Kumi. The reason is the weak payload and low health. Kumiho's are potentially VERY annoying to the real dash/descend bots, but they are essentially nonlethal, unless the other guy is already at 50% or lower. Kumi's are great at either crippling or finishing off "bigger" bots. I think you didn't have a fight with a good Kumiho pilot. I had occasion to stand against some of them and they are deadly. Also the weapon is really important - Kumiho with Scourge is especially nasty as it has a long range...
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Post by [CK]erazor on May 30, 2018 8:55:11 GMT -5
Hitachi is versatile while Quizzy is situational. If I'm in Haechi, I have no problem dealing with Quizzy if I have cover near me. If I have no cover where I can dash to, I made a mistake. Usually in 1:1, I take out 9(10) Quizzy.
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