chiya1
Destrier
Posts: 63
Karma: 11
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Post by chiya1 on Jan 23, 2017 22:24:52 GMT -5
Two players A and B, with 50% win rate
A has a level 6 leo with 3 weapons level 6 each
B has a level 6 fury with 3 weapons level 6 each
Are both players evenly matched? ASSUMING they win and lose equal number of matches.
Edit: it was brought to my attention that leo has 4 slots, okay lets assume one is empty as what one of the poster said below
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Post by ΜØØSE on Jan 23, 2017 23:01:19 GMT -5
Not seeing much of a difference honestly... Me either. I'm sure sure whether to be amused, confused, angry or apathetic.
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Post by zman on Jan 23, 2017 23:11:01 GMT -5
Two players A and B, with 50% win rate A has a level 6 leo with 3 weapons level 6 each B has a level 6 fury with 3 weapons level 6 each Are both players evenly matched? ASSUMING they win and lose equal number of matches. I'd definitely say no, since the Leo is missing one of its weapons! Haha Not enough information. One could be your six year old neffew that squads with you and your skill carries him. The other could be your fifteen year old cousin who is quite skilled, essentially a child prodigy, but has had poor connection issues and dropped from every theirs game which ranked his winrate.
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🌸M¡§$ M!©heL\_3🌸
Destrier
🐓🍭
Posts: 54
Karma: 30
Pilot name: M¡§$ M!©heL\_3
Platform: Android
Clan: [SI] self infliction
League: Gold
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: gareth
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Post by 🌸M¡§$ M!©heL\_3🌸 on Jan 23, 2017 23:36:06 GMT -5
Oh my gosh thank goodness theres a reason, i thought i was just having really bad luck, i went from 88 percent to 70 in a day or 2
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Post by Dead Mechanism on Jan 23, 2017 23:38:16 GMT -5
guys, I ran a bland "basic" rookie hangar until I lost %30. Now Ican run my normal gep hangar and mop up.
This system is danged whack. I only had to lose for a few hours before My bronze line up matched with bronze.
my ELO is reset and I can build what tier I want to be in.
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Jan 24, 2017 0:11:42 GMT -5
It's a performance rating, an unknown algorithm combining some or all of your stats, including things like win%, capture per game percent, avg dmg per game, etc. Nothing says anywhere that the stats you see on your profile have anything to do with your PR. We don't know the proper variables just yet, so thanks to those providing hard numbers and experiences.
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Post by ΜØØSE on Jan 24, 2017 0:12:07 GMT -5
guys, I ran a bland "basic" rookie hangar until I lost %30. Now Ican run my normal gep hangar and mop up. This system is danged whack. I only had to lose for a few hours before My bronze line up matched with bronze. my ELO is reset and I can build what tier I want to be in. You seem to think it's permanent or something, like if you win for a few hours you wont be right back into competitive matches. Just because you're now driving your Toyota Corolla in Mexico instead of a Mercedes in Aspen, it doesn't mean you're gonna be a hit with the ladies.
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Post by zman on Jan 24, 2017 1:10:51 GMT -5
Ok, very interesting little experiment I just performed. People have reported that when they swapped their hangers for super low Bot/weapon level hangers they saw no difference in the matches they had. I experimented on this a page ago, but ran a lvl6 Raijin withtoit weapon in addition to a lvl 1 Punisher Fuijin, and Cossack etc, and saw a marked decrease in the opposition. How can that be? Was a wrong? Was that match I tested just a fluke? Well, I had to know.
Well, I decided to do a bit more testing, bought a fleet off cossacks, lvl 1 stock, and ran like four games with them, won two and lost through no contribution outside of beacons. Actually netted 10 Au haha! Anyway, the opposition was positively Top Tier, pretty much the same I had been seeing with no reduction in strength. All lvl30 opponents.. This was directly at odds with my previous experiment. Ohhhh myyyy....
Well, I fired back up my Lvl 6 Raijin, threw some lvl 6 Teidents on him, then tossed in a lvl 6 Rhino woth odd lvl 6 weapons and an ecu, tossed in that lvl1 Fuijin and a pair of Cossacks. Well, wouldn't you know I saw a mixed bag of opponents, some were spot on a Heavy 6/6 plus the margin of not having as good an Elo, some were spot on. I actually fought and contributed to the match despite a honored setup. Sure, there were some people that didn't belong and were Too Tier, but there were a number of lvl25-29 players too. Basically it looked like the turbulence I keep talking about, I could see the New MM working and confirming my theories. I also saw something quite peciiliar....
So, based on some preliminary data there is a shelf installed meant to protect low levels bots and weapons from lvl30 players. Once I equipped a 6/6 Heavy the MM behaved differently. Now, its probabaly lower than 6/6, but it exists. Basically a lvl 30 player can't just field lvl 1s and get fair competition, but by H6/6 you can! It's quirky, clunky, and weird but I'm pretty sure it's there!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2017 1:57:46 GMT -5
Ok, very interesting little experiment I just performed. People have reported that when they swapped their hangers for super low Bot/weapon level hangers they saw no difference in the matches they had. I experimented on this a page ago, but ran a lvl6 Raijin withtoit weapon in addition to a lvl 1 Punisher Fuijin, and Cossack etc, and saw a marked decrease in the opposition. How can that be? Was a wrong? Was that match I tested just a fluke? Well, I had to know. Well, I decided to do a bit more testing, bought a fleet off cossacks, lvl 1 stock, and ran like four games with them, won two and lost through no contribution outside of beacons. Actually netted 10 Au haha! Anyway, the opposition was positively Top Tier, pretty much the same I had been seeing with no reduction in strength. All lvl30 opponents.. This was directly at odds with my previous experiment. Ohhhh myyyy.... Well, I fired back up my Lvl 6 Raijin, threw some lvl 6 Teidents on him, then tossed in a lvl 6 Rhino woth odd lvl 6 weapons and an ecu, tossed in that lvl1 Fuijin and a pair of Cossacks. Well, wouldn't you know I saw a mixed bag of opponents, some were spot on a Heavy 6/6 plus the margin of not having as good an Elo, some were spot on. I actually fought and contributed to the match despite a honored setup. Sure, there were some people that didn't belong and were Too Tier, but there were a number of lvl25-29 players too. Basically it looked like the turbulence I keep talking about, I could see the New MM working and confirming my theories. I also saw something quite peciiliar.... So, based on some preliminary data there is a shelf installed meant to protect low levels bots and weapons from lvl30 players. Once I equipped a 6/6 Heavy the MM behaved differently. Now, its probabaly lower than 6/6, but it exists. Basically a lvl 30 player can't just field lvl 1s and get fair competition, but by H6/6 you can! It's quirky, clunky, and weird but I'm pretty sure it's there! My current account still isn't lv 30 (le sigh). I can pretty much confirm that MM is hammering level 30 players, went from 6/6 light/mediums to 6/6 heavies and saw very little change in competition. One thing we haven't considered is that the initial MM was seeded on release, on basis of total games/victories. Most of the players I am encountering are within 1-200 games of me (guesstimate based on win% and victories). I haven't seen a single 5x mag gep pilot, whereas before today, I saw them in droves every day, and statistically, they were the only pilots with high bronze/low silver level hangars with 2-3k victories under their belt(explains why their world was on fire for new MM release as well)
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Post by redpoint5 on Jan 24, 2017 2:55:19 GMT -5
I don't see this fixing any perceived problem with lower level players loosing matches due to so-called seal clubbing. A seal clubber is just as likely to be on the friendly team as the enemy team. Driving win rates towards 50% for each player is kinda pointless since it doesn't significantly improve a poor players win percentage. 40% is just about as bad as someone could be on the old system, and I bet I could achieve a 30% win rate if I did absolutely nothing but spawn in and do nothing.
It's unrealistic to expect a battle without Davids and Goliaths.
Back on topic, I can confirm that hanger has nothing to do with the MM. Level 1 Destiers with level 1 weapons still put me in matches against maxed hangers. Kinda sucks that I'll never get to play my lighter bots again. It used to be fun to see if I can hold off Rogatkasaurus Rexes only with bots/weapons purchased with silver.
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Post by Strayed on Jan 24, 2017 3:27:45 GMT -5
Ok, it has been the better part of a week since the new MM got dropped on IOS and threw us for a loop. Now it hit Android. Firstly, yes, it sucks right now, and yes I hear your frustrations with matches all over the board. But, here is a brief explanation of how it works based on the data I've seen and the information Pix reps have given us. New MM = Hanger Strength + Elo +/-Uncertainty(Probably)Hanger Strength does matter, but it is not the primary determiner of your Matchmaking strength like it was under the old system. Elo is a large part of your matchmaking strength and is determined by some process that I'm sure is quite complicated and difficult based on a team game. We don't get to know what that is as Pix will keep us guessing. But, over time the MM can determine what your Elo should be. This is not based purely off winrate, or damage, or beacons, or bots killed etc. Unfortunately each player is starting with a default Elo and it is quite low, coupled with an uncertainty or range the MM is willing to pull from leads to some very sporadic matches that are outright terrible. The MM is very turbulant right now. Since this system was implemented wholesale on an existing playerbase of varied skill and hanger strengths it results in immediate chaos. Uncertainty by the system is very high and completely overpowers the hanger strength portion of MM equation. But, pretty quickly strong hangers and especially strong hangers with strong players being to rise, their Elo building match by match until they leave the turbulant fray behind. This system sorts from the top down, basically you have chaos and order rises from that chaos one strong hanger at a time and it works itself down. Why is my Low/Med hanger facing Top Tier guys? Most likely it is because you have begun to build up your Elo and they are fresh to the new MM. Or maybe you both jumped in with massive uncertainty in your Elos and the MM tossed you together, if so look on the other team, there is probably another hanger as strong as yours balancing it out as part of the system sorting things out. Since the system sorts from the top down people just like you are the proverbial whipping boy, the filter in which the initial setting of the system relies upon. Until most of the players have logged on and played enough games elevate their Elos and reduce the uncertainty in their Elo you will keep getting these fresh to the MM people until the move above you. Despite establishing your Elo, you are kept in the turbulance of the system constantly sorting the stronger hanger+Elo folks out and up. This does suck, but it does get better, hang in there and thank you for your service. Low/Med Hanger+Established Elo +/- Uncertainty = High Hanger +Default/Unestablished Elo +/-Uncertainty
Does the MM force a 50% Winrate?
No, the MM is not forcing a 50% winrate, but based on the new elo there is pressure towards a 50% winrate for all but the guys in the Top Tier. Essentially there will now be a smaller range in Winrates, ie majority of players will be between 40-60% and seeing winrates outside of that rage will become much rarer. My ExperiencesWhat have been my experiences on the MM. I have a formerly High Gold 9/9.5 Hanger. 1st Game: Crazy disparity in hanger strength, as low as 2/5 Geps as highest bot. 2nd Game: Crazy disparity in hanger strength, as low as 3/9 Geps. 3rd Game: Crazy disparity in hanger strength, as low as 4/12 Geps. 4-6 Games: Marginal improvement weeding out weaker hangers, often seeing 2-6 12/12 Top Tier Guys in each match. 7-20 Games: Incrementally less Top Tier Guys, seeing matches without them, or usually no more than 1/Match. Match balance is improving even if each player on each team is not well balanced. 20+Games: As each games goes on players weaker than 8/8 essentially disappear and 10/11 is usually the High End. Frequency of 12/12 Top Tier guys goes down significantly. Games are often well balanced even when mixed Squads are present. Few Outliers. Overall balance greatly improved and most of the time better than before the changeover. Biggest problem is not mismatched players, but players that drop matches. During this whole process my winrate went from 74% when the new MM hit down to a low of 54% and has since stabilized at 56-58% and hasn't shifted outside of 54-60% in dozens of games. Actually, winrate is now more stable than it was prior to the MM Change. Other MM Change Theories
Increased Weapon Level Weight: Weapons are now weighted more than they were before, ie a 4/12 bot is now closer to a 10/10 than a 9/9. A 2/7 is closer to a 6/6 than a 5/5. Even Teams> Even Players: As part of improved matchmaking for mixed strength squads the MM is more capable of create a balanced match with unbalanced players. There will be parity between hanger strengths on each side. Ie if one 12/12 is on a team, look at the other team, there is probably one that is comparable, or two that are closer than the rest. Edit: Word from Pix, 1-23-17, is that there is no special treatmeant for squad matchmaking. It takes the highest MM rated player in the squad and uses their matchmaking score and searches from there. I feel there was a missed opportunity for improved squadding. Using an algorithm to determine combined hanger strength and combined squad strength instead of strongest Bot and strongest player would have been hugely beneficial. Maybe we'll see an update here in the future, plus leagues are eventually on the way. Keep playing and trust that it gets better. It does, but it comes from the top down. The new problem is players intentionally throwing games to lower their Elo for clubbing. Pix has acknowledged this problem and will likely be coming up with a fix for it in the future.
Hang tight and keep on keeping on.Hey zman, is it okay if I use your post for the matchmaking page on the wiki? warrobots.wikia.com/wiki/Matchmaking
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Post by aleksrus on Jan 24, 2017 4:08:30 GMT -5
Yesterday I found a dramatic change in the balance of the game. Now I'm on light robots (Gepard, Shutzer all level 2) and weapons level 5 I get to heavy robots level 6-8 (Griffin, Rogatka, Fujin, Rhino!!!) with advanced weapons (Taran, Trident) levels 7-10. I do not have a chance - my robots immediately destroyed. I spent more than 10 fights - the situation has not changed. The game has lost all interest.
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Post by xxxdsmer on Jan 24, 2017 6:57:38 GMT -5
I really have no 「fluffernutter」ing clue why anyone is giving this bull「dookie」 a thumbs up. Matches should be matched for everyone. Not 「fluffernutter」ing sticking lv4/4 cossacks and lv1/4 gepards against 「gosh darn 」 lv10-12/10-12 「fluffernutter」ing WSP bots with gold and WSP weapons.
I spent $10, and one way or another I will recover those funds. I will not be punished for finding a way to keep myself competitive. A way, that btw, involved NERFING THE 「dookie」 OUT OF MYSELF via not even being able to use orkan, pinata, nor ANY heavy weapon, nor ANY other weapon that is minimum level 5. So I can 「fluffernutter」ing hit targets with molots/punishers... is that really reason to punish skill in aiming with an absolutely 「fluffernutter」ed up matchmaking system that just now fully hit android?
「fluffernutter」 the 「slow」 「bum-bum」 devs that thought it necessary to do this bull「dookie」, and 「fluffernutter」 all the 「female dog」es that complained about clubbing without giving a rats 「bum-bum」 what kind of effect their complaints would have on the however many actually skilled new players that will actually take the time to engage their brains and employ strategy, and come up with the best ways to use weapons, to come out on top. I don't have 「dookie」 like level 3 gepards with 「fluffernutter」ing two lv6 magnums and a lv1 punisher that I've 「fluffernutter」ING BEEN CLUBBED BY MANY TIMES. I'm just a good newb that's collateral damage from either 「slow」 「fluffernutter」ing developers, 「female dog」ing 「bum-bum」 「slow」 players, or a combination of both. And I'll be god damned if I'm going to play another 50 「fluffernutter」ing mataches against damn 12/12 hangars just for this ridiculously stupid new MM to figure out where I should be.
Pixonic and every one of its employees can go 「fluffernutter」 theirselves, and I will get my $10 back.
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patriot
Destrier
Posts: 10
Karma: 1
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Post by patriot on Jan 24, 2017 7:30:25 GMT -5
If no matter what you do you are driven to a 50% win rate, what's the point in trying? To heck with this, I'm gonna find something else to play.
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Post by zman on Jan 24, 2017 7:41:37 GMT -5
I don't see this fixing any perceived problem with lower level players loosing matches due to so-called seal clubbing. A seal clubber is just as likely to be on the friendly team as the enemy team. Driving win rates towards 50% for each player is kinda pointless since it doesn't significantly improve a poor players win percentage. 40% is just about as bad as someone could be on the old system, and I bet I could achieve a 30% win rate if I did absolutely nothing but spawn in and do nothing. It's unrealistic to expect a battle without Davids and Goliaths. Back on topic, I can confirm that hanger has nothing to do with the MM. Level 1 Destiers with level 1 weapons still put me in matches against maxed hangers. Kinda sucks that I'll never get to play my lighter bots again. It used to be fun to see if I can hold off Rogatkasaurus Rexes only with bots/weapons purchased with silver. Hey, read my last post a couple ahead of this one. I have found that 1/1s piloted by a level 30 pilot, me, gets maxed competition, but when Inopted for 6/6 Heavies in the hanger I got significantly different and mostly more appropriate competition. I don't know exactly what it is yet, but something is so play that keeps level 30 players away from the nursery.
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Post by zman on Jan 24, 2017 7:43:15 GMT -5
If no matter what you do you are driven to a 50% win rate, what's the point in trying? To heck with this, I'm gonna find something else to play. Pressure, not forceful. So far we've got many reports that good pilots can maintain a solid 60% winrate under the New MM. Some have reported even better. Myself, I've been able to hold 56-58% without too much variation. There is pressure towards 50%, but a 50% winnrate wont be forced on you.
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Post by zman on Jan 24, 2017 7:46:41 GMT -5
Ok, it has been the better part of a week since the new MM got dropped on IOS and threw us for a loop. Now it hit Android. Firstly, yes, it sucks right now, and yes I hear your frustrations with matches all over the board. But, here is a brief explanation of how it works based on the data I've seen and the information Pix reps have given us. New MM = Hanger Strength + Elo +/-Uncertainty(Probably)Hanger Strength does matter, but it is not the primary determiner of your Matchmaking strength like it was under the old system. Elo is a large part of your matchmaking strength and is determined by some process that I'm sure is quite complicated and difficult based on a team game. We don't get to know what that is as Pix will keep us guessing. But, over time the MM can determine what your Elo should be. This is not based purely off winrate, or damage, or beacons, or bots killed etc. Unfortunately each player is starting with a default Elo and it is quite low, coupled with an uncertainty or range the MM is willing to pull from leads to some very sporadic matches that are outright terrible. The MM is very turbulant right now. Since this system was implemented wholesale on an existing playerbase of varied skill and hanger strengths it results in immediate chaos. Uncertainty by the system is very high and completely overpowers the hanger strength portion of MM equation. But, pretty quickly strong hangers and especially strong hangers with strong players being to rise, their Elo building match by match until they leave the turbulant fray behind. This system sorts from the top down, basically you have chaos and order rises from that chaos one strong hanger at a time and it works itself down. Why is my Low/Med hanger facing Top Tier guys? Most likely it is because you have begun to build up your Elo and they are fresh to the new MM. Or maybe you both jumped in with massive uncertainty in your Elos and the MM tossed you together, if so look on the other team, there is probably another hanger as strong as yours balancing it out as part of the system sorting things out. Since the system sorts from the top down people just like you are the proverbial whipping boy, the filter in which the initial setting of the system relies upon. Until most of the players have logged on and played enough games elevate their Elos and reduce the uncertainty in their Elo you will keep getting these fresh to the MM people until the move above you. Despite establishing your Elo, you are kept in the turbulance of the system constantly sorting the stronger hanger+Elo folks out and up. This does suck, but it does get better, hang in there and thank you for your service. Low/Med Hanger+Established Elo +/- Uncertainty = High Hanger +Default/Unestablished Elo +/-Uncertainty
Does the MM force a 50% Winrate?
No, the MM is not forcing a 50% winrate, but based on the new elo there is pressure towards a 50% winrate for all but the guys in the Top Tier. Essentially there will now be a smaller range in Winrates, ie majority of players will be between 40-60% and seeing winrates outside of that rage will become much rarer. My ExperiencesWhat have been my experiences on the MM. I have a formerly High Gold 9/9.5 Hanger. 1st Game: Crazy disparity in hanger strength, as low as 2/5 Geps as highest bot. 2nd Game: Crazy disparity in hanger strength, as low as 3/9 Geps. 3rd Game: Crazy disparity in hanger strength, as low as 4/12 Geps. 4-6 Games: Marginal improvement weeding out weaker hangers, often seeing 2-6 12/12 Top Tier Guys in each match. 7-20 Games: Incrementally less Top Tier Guys, seeing matches without them, or usually no more than 1/Match. Match balance is improving even if each player on each team is not well balanced. 20+Games: As each games goes on players weaker than 8/8 essentially disappear and 10/11 is usually the High End. Frequency of 12/12 Top Tier guys goes down significantly. Games are often well balanced even when mixed Squads are present. Few Outliers. Overall balance greatly improved and most of the time better than before the changeover. Biggest problem is not mismatched players, but players that drop matches. During this whole process my winrate went from 74% when the new MM hit down to a low of 54% and has since stabilized at 56-58% and hasn't shifted outside of 54-60% in dozens of games. Actually, winrate is now more stable than it was prior to the MM Change. Other MM Change Theories
Increased Weapon Level Weight: Weapons are now weighted more than they were before, ie a 4/12 bot is now closer to a 10/10 than a 9/9. A 2/7 is closer to a 6/6 than a 5/5. Even Teams> Even Players: As part of improved matchmaking for mixed strength squads the MM is more capable of create a balanced match with unbalanced players. There will be parity between hanger strengths on each side. Ie if one 12/12 is on a team, look at the other team, there is probably one that is comparable, or two that are closer than the rest. Edit: Word from Pix, 1-23-17, is that there is no special treatmeant for squad matchmaking. It takes the highest MM rated player in the squad and uses their matchmaking score and searches from there. I feel there was a missed opportunity for improved squadding. Using an algorithm to determine combined hanger strength and combined squad strength instead of strongest Bot and strongest player would have been hugely beneficial. Maybe we'll see an update here in the future, plus leagues are eventually on the way. Keep playing and trust that it gets better. It does, but it comes from the top down. The new problem is players intentionally throwing games to lower their Elo for clubbing. Pix has acknowledged this problem and will likely be coming up with a fix for it in the future.
Hang tight and keep on keeping on.Hey zman, is it okay if I use your post for the matchmaking page on the wiki? warrobots.wikia.com/wiki/MatchmakingI'd be honored. Of course this is a theory that so far fits the data and evidence we have, but is not based on any insider information etc, just the information Pix has given us, the data I've gathered, the evidence others have supplied, and the extrapolation of a Hanger+Elo that starts at a default Elo of 0. It might be a good idea to have those Pix contacts give it a once over and maybe give you a silent head shake or wink wink, haha.
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Post by frunobulax on Jan 24, 2017 7:54:30 GMT -5
I really have no ?firetruck?ing clue why anyone is giving this bull?poo-poo? a thumbs up. Matches should be matched for everyone. Not ?firetruck?ing sticking lv4/4 cossacks and lv1/4 gepards against 「gosh darn 」 lv10-12/10-12 ?firetruck?ing WSP bots with gold and WSP weapons. I spent $10, and one way or another I will recover those funds. [...] Pixonic and every one of its employees can go ?firetruck? theirselves, and I will get my $10 back. Boy, sometimes I wish we had an age verification in this forum.
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Post by Loop_Stratos on Jan 24, 2017 8:23:32 GMT -5
I really have no ?firetruck?ing clue why anyone is giving this bull?poo-poo? a thumbs up. Matches should be matched for everyone. Not ?firetruck?ing sticking lv4/4 cossacks and lv1/4 gepards against 「gosh darn 」 lv10-12/10-12 ?firetruck?ing WSP bots with gold and WSP weapons. I spent $10, and one way or another I will recover those funds. [...] Pixonic and every one of its employees can go ?firetruck? theirselves, and I will get my $10 back. Boy, sometimes I wish we had an age verification in this forum. That's a whole lot of unnessecary censored words.
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Post by Trogon on Jan 24, 2017 9:42:54 GMT -5
If no matter what you do you are driven to a 50% win rate, what's the point in trying? To heck with this, I'm gonna find something else to play. Pressure, not forceful. So far we've got many reports that good pilots can maintain a solid 60% winrate under the New MM. Some have reported even better. Myself, I've been able to hold 56-58% without too much variation. There is pressure towards 50%, but a 50% winnrate wont be forced on you. If you think about it - when you play a sport or game like chess or tennis against an evenly matched opponent, you should win about 50% of the time. That's not the same as "forcing" you to a 50% rate - it's just attempting to match you up with even competition. We all like to win, but if you win 60-90% of the time, that means your opponents are really not even with you.
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Post by Dredd77 on Jan 24, 2017 9:46:57 GMT -5
Pressure, not forceful. So far we've got many reports that good pilots can maintain a solid 60% winrate under the New MM. Some have reported even better. Myself, I've been able to hold 56-58% without too much variation. There is pressure towards 50%, but a 50% winnrate wont be forced on you. If you think about it - when you play a sport or game like chess or tennis against an evenly matched opponent, you should win about 50% of the time. That's not the same as "forcing" you to a 50% rate - it's just attempting to match you up with even competition. We all like to win, but if you win 60-90% of the time, that means your opponents are really not even with you. That's such a great way to look at it, and you're exactly right. Even I've had a little trepidation about the 50% hover, but I didn't think of it this way. Well said!
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fan2x
Recruit
Posts: 2
Karma: 0
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Post by fan2x on Jan 24, 2017 9:48:19 GMT -5
I can only say one thing: it is not fun to play with people who have 25 more lv than you. I mean, adding weapon by weapon and bot.
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Post by Trogon on Jan 24, 2017 9:52:03 GMT -5
I can only say one thing: it is not fun to play with people who have 25 more lv than you. I mean, adding weapon by weapon and bot. I agree. I was not speaking to the success of the current MM implementation, more to the theory of the 50% win rate being sound if the purpose is to make even matches. In the vast majority of cases, matching hangars that are 3-6 levels different will never be even, unless the lower-level player is a superstar pilot. Because this is a team game with vast variations of possible hangar setups, finding that elusive "even" match must be a lot harder than in a game that is much"simpler" to measure skill, like chess.
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Post by lephturn on Jan 24, 2017 10:00:14 GMT -5
I can only say one thing: it is not fun to play with people who have 25 more lv than you. I mean, adding weapon by weapon and bot. If you are level 30, go to 6/6 heavies right away, because you'll face that anyway. Whatever your top level weapon is will determine what you will face. So if you have 2/10 mag Gep you will face 10/10 or 10/9 heavies. Know that up front and adjust your hangar accordingly. Once you do the match making will make sense again and you will have decently balanced games after you run a few.
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Post by Dead Mechanism on Jan 24, 2017 10:00:47 GMT -5
guys, I ran a bland "basic" rookie hangar until I lost %30. Now Ican run my normal gep hangar and mop up. This system is danged whack. I only had to lose for a few hours before My bronze line up matched with bronze. my ELO is reset and I can build what tier I want to be in. You seem to think it's permanent or something, like if you win for a few hours you wont be right back into competitive matches. Just because you're now driving your Toyota Corolla in Mexico instead of a Mercedes in Aspen, it doesn't mean you're gonna be a hit with the ladies. that's the whole point, I said, to float back up to where I want to be, never to stay in rookie tier. It's literally the same thing as getting curb stomped by max guys on the top end for half a day, instead of sinking down I'll be floating up. ...except MM is even more messed up down here. I can run a Carnage against factory-new Destriers. If Pixonic thought this system would fix "seal clubbing," I have really really bad news: you can club harder than was ever possible in the past. You can tank your stats and run a max hangar in what is essentially the rookie tier. I want to be clear this was not and is not my intention, I just thought sinking and evening back out to fair MM would be faster and, most importantly, much less frustrating than getting smashed by max players. But my experiment shows a major flaw in MM.
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Post by lephturn on Jan 24, 2017 10:05:53 GMT -5
I wouldn't suggest tanking your War Robots... plus that would be boring as snot.
Pixonic will do something about that pretty quickly I think. I would do it by benchmarking a player's highest Elo and then never letting them sink more than a certain % below that no matter what they do.
Anyone willing to intentionally lose in order to tank their Elo so they can club will be shunned by the community until such time as Pixonic finds a way to stamp them out.
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Post by Trogon on Jan 24, 2017 10:10:58 GMT -5
I can only say one thing: it is not fun to play with people who have 25 more lv than you. I mean, adding weapon by weapon and bot. If you are level 30, go to 6/6 heavies right away, because you'll face that anyway. Whatever your top level weapon is will determine what you will face. So if you have 2/10 mag Gep you will face 10/10 or 10/9 heavies. Know that up front and adjust your hangar accordingly. Once you do the match making will make sense again and you will have decently balanced games after you run a few. I wish this were consistently true. My ios hangar of 6/7 heavies still gets matches with multiple heavies in the 10/10 to 12/12 range. It would be interesting to know how many games people have played who see things stabilizing vs those of us who are still seeing craziness. Has anyone been tracking # of matches in that way? I've probably played 30-50 iOS matches in the last week.
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Post by lephturn on Jan 24, 2017 10:17:11 GMT -5
If you are level 30, go to 6/6 heavies right away, because you'll face that anyway. Whatever your top level weapon is will determine what you will face. So if you have 2/10 mag Gep you will face 10/10 or 10/9 heavies. Know that up front and adjust your hangar accordingly. Once you do the match making will make sense again and you will have decently balanced games after you run a few. I wish this were consistently true. My ios hangar of 6/7 heavies still gets matches with multiple heavies in the 10/10 to 12/12 range. It's getting better. I sometimes see 8/9 heavies but rarely 10. If I see a 10 they usually have level 5-6 weapons and 3 slots. It was like that a couple of days ago for me but it's much better now. Also check their win rates. If you are vs. a 12/12 in 6/7 heavies it probably means the 12/12 guy hasn't played many games yet under this new system and has a very low Elo. OR he has played and he is a 40% player while you are a 70% player. When I start comparing win rates as well as equipment for the entire team (not just me) the matches start to look pretty balanced. I'm getting more games won or lost by mech-out than ever before, because they are actually pretty close!
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Post by 『 Dᴇᴀᴛʜ 』 on Jan 24, 2017 10:21:59 GMT -5
Pressure, not forceful. So far we've got many reports that good pilots can maintain a solid 60% winrate under the New MM. Some have reported even better. Myself, I've been able to hold 56-58% without too much variation. There is pressure towards 50%, but a 50% winnrate wont be forced on you. If you think about it - when you play a sport or game like chess or tennis against an evenly matched opponent, you should win about 50% of the time. That's not the same as "forcing" you to a 50% rate - it's just attempting to match you up with even competition. We all like to win, but if you win 60-90% of the time, that means your opponents are really not even with you. This is just wrong in so many levels. I mean do you even read what you write and use some logic to analyze it? Your comparission to chess and tenis is just a joke in my eyes. Maxed player vs maxed player applies to that but not players that have 6 or more levels apart and not to mention bots(gold, wsp, heavy, light, etc..). Just look at it like this in chess both players start with the same pieces in the same position, same with tennis. Nobody has there super chess pieces that can jump everywhere or rackets that boost your accuracy... With this MM WHEN you win too much or do too much damage you will start games with uneven odds against you, how is that fair? I mean if I get matched with players that are equally skilled like me or EVEN more/better than me , I don't mind at all as long as they have similar bots and levels to mine. Don't make simple mistakes like this because I'm forced to question many of you provoters as just biased consumers.
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6pack
Destrier
Posts: 48
Karma: 14
Platform: Both
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Post by 6pack on Jan 24, 2017 10:25:16 GMT -5
Pressure, not forceful. So far we've got many reports that good pilots can maintain a solid 60% winrate under the New MM. Some have reported even better. Myself, I've been able to hold 56-58% without too much variation. There is pressure towards 50%, but a 50% winnrate wont be forced on you. If you think about it - when you play a sport or game like chess or tennis against an evenly matched opponent, you should win about 50% of the time. That's not the same as "forcing" you to a 50% rate - it's just attempting to match you up with even competition. We all like to win, but if you win 60-90% of the time, that means your opponents are really not even with you. Except this is not really the case with War Robots. You are not using an even playing field when they pit you against bots and weapons that are above or below you. That is not being evenly matched. In the sports you mention, the game is the same for everyone. White player doesn't have stronger pawns or bishops than the black player. The box isn't bigger or the net lower for one player vs another in Tennis. Those are true skill based games. As for player skill in this game, its a myth. Once you learn the controls and maps, its all about advantage. A 12/12 spiral/Hydra griff will eat a 12/12 taran/mag griff on most maps simply because the Taran/Mag griff cant get close enough. Not skill, just a gear/map advantage. If gear/bots don't provide an advantage, why upgrade/purchase them at all? Would be no need for Geps, or Gals, or Furies, etc. No need for weapon/bot levels. Just give everyone a Destrier, a Golem, and a Leo with the exact same weapons. For those that are seeing even results and fair matches, that's great for you. There are a good number of use who are seeing woefully out-geared matches though. Telling us that we need to just buck it up and take our lumps is absurd. Would you sit in a dentist chair and let him start drilling before you were numbed up if he said, “Dont worry, it just takes a little while for the meds to kick in, you'll be fine soon”? Doubt it. I'm not a free player. I have purchased the premium and some gold/robots/weapons. After trialing the game, I found it fun and didn't mind helping support them for the development effort and to help them make a profit. However, now that I am getting slaughtered by bots/weapons I have no chance of beating and no chance of making the top 3 on the leader board, all due to a chaotic MM system, my enjoyment factor has plummeted. As a result, I am not planning on renewing my membership or purchasing any additional gold or bots.
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