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Post by zman on Jan 23, 2017 16:29:37 GMT -5
Alright, I've been messing around all day after the new MM dropped on android, and I'm over-matched no matter what setups I run. If I run my normal 4/12 lights (high silver/low gold) I see what would have been medium gold. If I throw in, say, my level 1 carnage w level 5 thunders, I see maxed out guys. I have a very under developed "gold" style line up I could play, w Gareth, Carnage, Rhino, Griffs, etc, but again, I'm terribly over-matched. So what do I do to bulldoze my way through the MM turbulence? Run my normal 4/12 geps? Run random "gold" type bots? I think either way I am going to be losing a lot... It's weird, I ran Pilot of the Hour earlier and came in 3rd. I didn't see real disparity in MM until I tried my Thunder Carnage. Since then I've unlocked all hell. Easiest way to rise above the turbulence the quickest is to equip your highest hanger, which is your 4/12 Geps, which were equivalent to 9/9 Lights before, they might be weighted a bit hgiher now, but sit and ride it out. It is settling from the top down. I wish people would stop using ‘ELO’. The very nature of this game prevents using the method Arpad Elo came up with for estimating the skill of players in CHESS. You simply cannot use his equation since the game itself is different among players (I.E. lvl 5/5 bots vs lvl 6/6 bots, Team play, multiple win scenarios). If this was a 1vs1 game, you couldn’t even use this method for rating 2 level 30 players with 5 slot 12/12 hangars since their bots and weapons will not be identical. Now if you start ADDING equations for these values, then you have fundamentally changed his method and it cannot be considered an ‘ELO Rating System’ 50% Winrate? How is it possible to calculate the effect that player A had over player B on the winning team? Beacon Captures? Damage? Kills? Pix doesn’t even score beacons captures as that important on the results board. Capture all the beacons for your team and you will get 5au but you will be last on the board and you will get very little Ag or Experience. Do the most damage, you will still only get 5Au but you will get much more Ag and Experience. So is damage the main value? Then why have beacons at all let alone as a win option. So now we are to believe that putting a 12/12 driver on each team with the weaker 6/6 (Whatever combo you choose) is good for the game? How does the player with the 8/8 hangar compete for damage and therefore the higher experience and higher Ag? Hes not maxed so winning Ag is important for them. Oh and as for the “Skill vs Level” argument I see a lot. Hehe, yeah, let’s see your skill when you are in a level 6/6 bot faced with even something as low as a 9/9. Of course to accurately test the skill you would need the same bot type and weapon types. Can’t have you hiding in a corner sticking an arm out to shoot your spirals at the big fat enemy robot. Actually come to think about it, nothing about this game is skill. Its advantage based. Better weapons, better position, better luck of the draw in MM, etc. Real skill? Pick up a bow and arrow and see how many times you can outscore your opponent. Yes, Elo isn't the right term nor directly appropriate. But, everyone has been using it as a reference and people know what we're talking about. Think of Elo describing this skill aggregate like every calls facial tissue Kleenex regardless the brand.
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Post by Divine Thunder on Jan 23, 2017 16:32:04 GMT -5
Zman
Thanks for the reply. Since i have been party to the pix-mod/-admin discussions, just wanted to know where your data came so the community would have a clear, transparent idea of what is going on. I just wish pix was as transparent as they said they would be when the new mm was mentioned months ago. We literally got a hint minutes before the new mm took affect.
To answer the squad vs random matching, no we did not have any TT, top tier i presume, for two of those matchups.
One match, i think we had one who did have a couple maxed bots.
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Post by WE034 on Jan 23, 2017 16:37:58 GMT -5
Depending on the number of games you've played and the resultant refinement of your Elo (modified) score, the perimeters you described speaks to your talent/skill. The new system creates a balanced (somewhat) manifold score from your hanger rating and performance. If you are on the positive side, or have a high score, the system matches you with like scorer. The increased level of the bots you're facing could speak to the game trying to find you an equal match.
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Post by boomsplat on Jan 23, 2017 16:39:31 GMT -5
My other question is: Does this mean squadding with Clanmates who have the same hangar will put you in disparate MM tiers now? How is player EO going to affect Squads? My experience is mixed. At the start of the new MM and through Day 4, every time we (level 9 heavy weps with around 50-60% win rate) ran a squad of 6 we got matched up with 12/12 squads. We gave that up and just ran squads of 2-4....those matches were primarily up against comparable players with occasional 12/12 pilots dropping in on matched squads, especially when MM put our squad of 3 with another squad of 3 and then dropped us in against a squad of 6 12/12. On Day 5, we ran with a couple of 12/12 pilots from BMF with the rest of us lvl 9....and our matches were pretty good. Once we were dropped in against a full squad of Rogue Nation and the next match was Stoned Raiders.....we lost the first but won the second (these are great IOS clans). On Day 6, we ran a full squad of level 9-10 wep players and saw fairly balanced matches. The thing that you can't do anymore is put in lower level equipment and think you will get lower level competition. I'm uncertain of how the new MM looks at squads, but it doesn't seem like it keys off of the highest power player in the squad like it used to. It is getting better....it is just very tough the first 4 days. Cheers!
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Post by lephturn on Jan 23, 2017 16:42:22 GMT -5
I have a very under developed "gold" style line up I could play, w Gareth, Carnage, Rhino, Griffs, etc, but again, I'm terribly over-matched. So what do I do to bulldoze my way through the MM turbulence? Run my normal 4/12 geps? Run random "gold" type bots? I think either way I am going to be losing a lot... From what I am seeing, play your best balanced hangar. NOTE: Balance does NOT mean what it used to mean. Balance now means bot lvl = weapon lvl based on what I'm seeing. If you run anything with level 12 weapons on it you are going to see 12/12 hangars on red and maybe blue. I tried dropping down to 3/3 lights for 2 days. Didn't adjust much and I still saw 8/7 and 8/8 heavies - but the teams were balanced better and better. I was not terribly relevant outside of capping a couple of beacons, but my win rate was still in the 60s. I then swapped in a Griffin and put 6/7 weapons on it and started working on my 2/6 and 2/7 mediums to bring the bot levels up. It's not great yet but the games are pretty close. The main reason to run your best balanced hangar is that you want to be one of the top geared guys on your team. If you are running lighter and lower bots than you could and are the worst geared guy on your team most of the time, you won't be able to win that much. With that said - weapon levels seem to determine much of what you will face in terms of bots and weapons, full stop. That means if you have level 12 weapons you might need to put then away for quite a while - like until you get your bots up to 8-10. Lastly - weapons more than 1 over bot level seems to be heavily penalized. Maybe not with a penalty per se but a Cossack 3/7 (like I was running before the new MM dropped) will face 7/6 Leos and Griffins, maybe even 8/8 if you have a good War Robots. Better to pick up a Griffin at level 6 and toss level 6-7 weapons on it if you are going to face 6-8 Griffins anyway.
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Post by Dead Mechanism on Jan 23, 2017 16:56:29 GMT -5
I dunno about the "balanced means bot level match weapons levels" because I tried running a full on rookie set up and still was in mid gold. I had a 1/1 destriers against level 9 Rhinos.
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Post by Dredd77 on Jan 23, 2017 17:04:04 GMT -5
Dead Mechanism It's not going to radically adjust based on what you're running. Performance is weighed much heavier than gear now.
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Post by lephturn on Jan 23, 2017 17:12:52 GMT -5
How is that determined? I am being pitched up against way way stronger robots with stronger weapons and I'm getting beaten to a pulp. I don't know how one can say "oh I wasn't as good as I thought, my level 4 light can't even beat a maxed out Rhino!" It seems to me if you sucked, you'd be pitted against way easier opponents. As it stands, I'm being handicapped where I am not allowed to use the same level bots as my opponents. It'd be one thing if we were on the same playing field... Essentially yes. What has been happening is that the hanger scores used to make matches were easily manipulated. Any player smart enough to come to these forums or even just observe who is clubbing them very quickly learned that the key was to keep bot levels low and weapon levels high. To the point that I would run into clubbers running 5 Geps 1/10 and some running 4/12. Players also figured out that some weapons in certain combinations are extremely powerful. Tri mag Geps. Tri Aphid Geps. Etc. So before this change many players manipulated the MM by keeping bot levels low and weapon levels very high to ensure they matched against far inferior equipment most of the time. We combined this with knowing enough to choose the most powerful bot/weapon combinations. The result was that smart players were almost always facing far inferior equipment and players at lower tiers, and with some sort of Elo system and the MM changes that prevent things like 2/10 Geps from facing 3/5 meds like they were, and the unrealistic 80%+ win rates are going to go down. So people are discovering that the 85% win rate they had is not representative - they are not as good as they thought, and when MM sorts them to face opponents with equivalent equipment and skill levels, or a combination of higher equipment and lower skill, they will no longer win as much.
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Post by Divine Thunder on Jan 23, 2017 17:19:18 GMT -5
Zman,
I thought i had posted a reply. However, it seems to have vanished.
Thanks for your response. Just wanted to make sure there is a measure of transparency. There is a lot of guessing going on because pix has not been as transparent as they said they would when they announced the new mm months ago on facebook.
Well, time will tell the truth cincerning how this new mm operates and this community will decode the secrets just as it was decoded after the ladt mm shakeup.
Concerning your question about my randoms vs squad experience. No, we did not have any TT, presumed to mean top tier, pilots among the randoms. At least the first two enounters, were that way. They had vastly more powerful bots and the win rates to boot and they were on yhe same clan. The third, was a little different, we did have one pilot with 12/12 bots. How many? Did not record. But in a match up going down the list, there was no comparison.
Again thanks for clarification.
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Post by Dredd77 on Jan 23, 2017 17:19:32 GMT -5
Dead Mechanism You're seeing the big Rhinos right now because everyone starts with a clean slate, apparently, rather than any kind of weighting or seeding. Those max level players will soon be rocketing well past the likes of you and me. I faced 'em early on (and, like you, was left scratching my head), seldom see them now.
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Post by zman on Jan 23, 2017 17:23:59 GMT -5
I dunno about the "balanced means bot level match weapons levels" because I tried running a full on rookie set up and still was in mid gold. I had a 1/1 destriers against level 9 Rhinos. And 1/1 Destriers with an established Elo will match up against Strong hanger guys who have a default Elo score. Basically, the system has settled low enough to differentiate the lower ends of teh power scale yet. Dead Mechanism It's not going to radically adjust based on what you're running. Performance is weighed much heavier than gear now. Actually...... The reason is becasue of the turbulance, basically it hasn't settled low enough yet. Low Hanger + Established Elo = Strong Hangers + Default Elo. Hanger strength is weighted, it just isn't relevant until the system settles low enough. And it is coming, just takes a while for the bottom to sort out. I just tested my hanger strength hypothesis. Since the MM has been pretty consistant for me I figured it was stabalized enough for a test of a weak hanger being useful. Here it is! Essentially I dropepd myself to my strongest bot being a weaponless lvl 6 Raijin and as I expected I got tossed into the turbulance. Here it is! Just ran a test match lowing my hanger to a weaponless lvl 6 Raijin, weaponless lvl6 Fuijin, lvl1 Fuijin with Punisher Ts, a weaponless lvl 6 Rhino, and a lvl 1 Cossack freshly bought. I went from seeing my normal fare to an utter cluster of a game. In the game on Red was a 3 man clan of 12/12 and 11/12 TT guys. They had one H9/10 guy with a 42% winrate. And an 8/10 guy with a 58% winrate. Their weakest player was a H7/7.5 L9/8 with an abysmal 36% win rate. Red H12/12 H12/12 H11/12 H9/10 Win 42% H8/10 Win 58% H7/7.5 L9/8 36% Winrate Blue H7/9 H10/7 3 Slots H 9/8 Win 42% H7/8 Win 68% H6/6 Win 44% H6/6 Win 58%(Me) The strongest player on Blue was a H7/9 guy or a 3 slot hanger guy whose best was a 10/7. We also had a H6/6 guy with 44% winrate. A H9/8 with 42% winrate. And one last guy with a H7/8 and 68% Winrate. Ok, given what I've described and the fact I was pretty much running a weaponless setup... I did get over 20k damage, 3 beacons, and 1 kill! We got slaughtered, it was a joke. My normal hanger is a 9/9.7 with 58%winrate and the competition usually runs a touch stronger than me on average and I don't see really anything weaker than 8/8. What I saw on blue equated to a huge drop in hanger strength and competence and turened into the random mess the Low/Mid guys are reporting in the MM. Running a game with mynormal hanger now.... And the game was close, we got botted out with 2 minutes left... we ran up the score on beacons but spread ourselves too thin. They sat and waited for us to move into their Aphids screen of death. We had a strong win but five us us botted out within 30s of each other. Looks like we were going to ride to the win when we got botted. I was third on my team with 6 kills, 594k, and 2 Beacons. Strongest Bot on each team. This was a bit stronger than I usually face, but overall it was a good match and looks like I was one that got bumped up to fight the TT Squad. Even most of the 12/12 guys, not a one had a full 12/12 hanger, most had mixes and were closer to the 11/11 mark. Blue H12/12 50% Win H12/12 46%Win H10/12 40%Win H9/9.7 58% Win(Me) H10/11 42% Win 4Slots H8/10 40% Win Red H12/12 44% Squadded H12/12 42% H10/11.25 L12/11 Win 64% H10/11 56% Squadded H9/11.7 40% H9/10.25 54% Basically running this experiment was a stark difference from my normal games, I dropped from my spot up where High Gold/Mediocre TT, down into the turbulance where everything was chaotic and nothing made sense. This fits perfectly with my Med Hanger + Established Elo = Turbulance. Essentially this is an easy test for me to see that the MM hasn't settled down in the H6/6 level yet, but is much much more settled up in 9/10ish.
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Post by SlowReflexes on Jan 23, 2017 17:24:13 GMT -5
I am not speaking to my own player skill, but I don't get this whole stream of thought here. People are finding out they aren't as good as they thought? How is that determined? I am being pitched up against way way stronger robots with stronger weapons and I'm getting beaten to a pulp. I don't know how one can say "oh I wasn't as good as I thought, my level 4 light can't even beat a maxed out Rhino!" It seems to me if you sucked, you'd be pitted against way easier opponents. As it stands, I'm being handicapped where I am not allowed to use the same level bots as my opponents. It'd be one thing if we were on the same playing field... It's also foolishly presenting only a part of the picture. Dunning-Kruger describes the situation where basically, people are too stupid to realize how stupid they are. The flip side of that is imposter syndrome, where competent people are so unthinkingly good, they assume everyone is that good, and tend to focus on only their own shortcomings and failures. The moron says 'I'm awesome' and the genius says 'I suck'.
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Post by zman on Jan 23, 2017 17:26:50 GMT -5
Zman, I thought i had posted a reply. However, it seems to have vanished. Thanks for your response. Just wanted to make sure there is a measure of transparency. There is a lot of guessing going on because pix has not been as transparent as they said they would when they announced the new mm months ago on facebook. Well, time will tell the truth cincerning how this new mm operates and this community will decode the secrets just as it was decoded after the ladt mm shakeup. Concerning your question about my randoms vs squad experience. No, we did not have any TT, presumed to mean top tier, pilots among the randoms. At least the first two enounters, were that way. They had vastly more powerful bots and the win rates to boot and they were on yhe same clan. The third, was a little different, we did have one pilot with 12/12 bots. How many? Did not record. But in a match up going down the list, there was no comparison. Again thanks for clarification. No problem. I wish they were transparent too. So, I got tired of waiting and decided to dust off the old scientific method, take what they gave of us "Hanger Strength + Elo" and use it to explain just what was going on. Once the Default Elo is low part became apparent the whole thing made sense and it is indeed settling from the top down as espected. I even tested it with varying hanger strengths from up where it is mostly settle to throwing it into the turbulance and chaos and can littler see it happen. My recent text also disproves the "Pure Elo" hypothesis. Could be confirmation bias, but no other hypothesis explains what we are seeing yet. I may not have got it perfect, but it is the best we got to explain it with Pix being tight lipped.
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Post by Golden Sabre on Jan 23, 2017 17:31:19 GMT -5
I want to be on the red team :/
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2017 17:36:37 GMT -5
Hangar strength doesn't seem to matter much at all except where you were initially pegged. I can run low bots and score low/no damage and it will still adjust my opposition upward if my team happens to win in spite of my outlandishly weak beacon-grabber hangar.
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Post by zman on Jan 23, 2017 17:50:32 GMT -5
Hangar strength doesn't seem to matter much at all except where you were initially pegged. I can run low bots and score low/no damage and it will still adjust my opposition upward if my team happens to win in spite of my outlandishly weak beacon-grabber hangar. Hey King. Hanger strength does matter and once the MM settles down and reaches all power levels it will show that. I just did a test a couple of posts above that demonstrated it. It will adjust your opposition upward if you win with your beacon grabbrs, but it is still calculating the strength of your hanger. But, since you are on Android and the MM just hit playing enough games to establish your Elo means your weak hanger + developed Elo will be pitting you against strong hangers without established Elos. This will change and your hanger strength will be a bigger factor for your opposition one all the active players have established their Elos. Right now having a weak hanger and an established Elo you are down in chop and turbulence. I assure you I can test and show hanger strength matters and it isn't purely Elo or performance, but until the vast majority of active players establish their Elo you aren't going to feel like it matters. Best advice for riding out this wave, equip your strongest hanger for the next week and let each and every person with a stronger hanger and similar or better skills get sifted through you. Basically, once you establish a reliable Elo you are a filter that sifts the rest of the population and it works by the TT guys rising to the top first and then it settles from the top down.
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Pulse Hadron
Destrier
Posts: 85
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Pilot name: Pulse Hadron
Platform: iOS
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Post by Pulse Hadron on Jan 23, 2017 18:15:24 GMT -5
Since Thursday I've been playing with a 1/1 hangar: 2 Cossack Molot and 3 Destrier Spirals. I am NOT tanking games, I'm playing to the best of my abilities to see how the MM functions. Recording the battle stats and top blue and red hangar of each game.
Initially I was facing TT guys and the best I could do was distract and cap. Did earn beacon gold a few times but my damage averaged 30k while others were 500k+.
After about 20 games and 2 days I finally noticed the first shift. Still really strong bots but not 12/12s anymore. 20 more games and there was another shift to Cossacks and Destriers appearing.
It's been 70 games now and appearing to half resemble something bronzish. There's usually a Natasha or Fujin, a handful of Golem, Patton, Boa and the rest Cossack, Destrier, Schutze.
I can actually engage some of the enemy now so I switched my hangar to 3 Cossack Punisher, a Destrier Molot and a Destrier Spiral, all 1/1 still. Now I can get 100k damage and a few kills.
My win rate started around 72% and in all this time the lowest it went was 54%, my team would win despite me.
This is probably not the best time to experiment, what with elo scores still trickling down. My intent is to find out what it'll take to continue having battle variety and use all my bots. I'm one of those people with several hangars for each tier and liked to hop around depending on my mood. The idea is to get competive 1/1 hangar battles, play it for real fun (which it's starting to be again) then when I get bored switch in something a bit stronger, let it get competitive, have fun, get bored and switch up a bit again. Move all the way up to my best bots (8/8 splash Galahad and Gareth, 6/7 Zeus Carnage, 6/8 DB and PDB Griffin) then cycle back to 1/1.
Thanks zman for your insight, it's eliminated some lamenting about the loss of my preferred battling style.
Wish I could've played bronze with other skilled pilots though (sans maggep), that would have been really fun.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2017 18:20:43 GMT -5
I really haven't played that many matches (12?) with 5 of those being with my lights. Hard to believe that would make me "established".
I'm tempted to just tank and see how the MM reacts when I've got low wins and zero damage in my last 50 matches. Will it still retain some memory of the 8/7 heavy environment that it initially believed I should be placed in? I wouldn't be surprised if the implementation in Android was slightly different based on the experience with iOS.
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Post by zman on Jan 23, 2017 18:25:16 GMT -5
I really haven't played that many matches (12?) with 5 of those being with my lights. Hard to believe that would make me "established". I'm tempted to just tank and see how the MM reacts when I've got low wins and zero damage in my last 50 matches. Will it still retain some memory of the 8/7 heavy environment that it initially believed I should be placed in? I wouldn't be surprised if the implementation in Android was slightly different based on the experience with iOS. 12 matches definitely establishes a solid Elo especially if the Default Elo is indeed 0 and losing matches can potentially increase it from that point or winning even a single match causes you to jump up quite a bit. To put it in perspective the lowest bots in my first three games were Game 1 2/5 Gep, Game 2 3/9 Get, Game 3 4/12 Gep. By a half dozen games, of which I think I went 6-0, I was facing mostly Gold and above bots. I could literally feel the MM tuning up and shifting me upwards, it doesn't make sense until you are above the noise or it comes down to you. And each day it has tuned in from there on out. By Day 2, 12 games in I really didn't see anything under 8/8 anymore.
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Post by WE034 on Jan 23, 2017 19:05:22 GMT -5
I want to be on the red team :/
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Post by blastronaut on Jan 23, 2017 19:33:14 GMT -5
Zman, I thought i had posted a reply. However, it seems to have vanished. Thanks for your response. Just wanted to make sure there is a measure of transparency. There is a lot of guessing going on because pix has not been as transparent as they said they would when they announced the new mm months ago on facebook. Well, time will tell the truth cincerning how this new mm operates and this community will decode the secrets just as it was decoded after the ladt mm shakeup. Concerning your question about my randoms vs squad experience. No, we did not have any TT, presumed to mean top tier, pilots among the randoms. At least the first two enounters, were that way. They had vastly more powerful bots and the win rates to boot and they were on yhe same clan. The third, was a little different, we did have one pilot with 12/12 bots. How many? Did not record. But in a match up going down the list, there was no comparison. Again thanks for clarification. No problem. I wish they were transparent too. So, I got tired of waiting and decided to dust off the old scientific method, take what they gave of us "Hanger Strength + Elo" and use it to explain just what was going on. Once the Default Elo is low part became apparent the whole thing made sense and it is indeed settling from the top down as espected. I even tested it with varying hanger strengths from up where it is mostly settle to throwing it into the turbulance and chaos and can littler see it happen. My recent text also disproves the "Pure Elo" hypothesis. Could be confirmation bias, but no other hypothesis explains what we are seeing yet. I may not have got it perfect, but it is the best we got to explain it with Pix being tight lipped. I can confirm that the new MM is mostly results/performance based. I ejected from 50 straight matches after capping 1 beacon and causing a little damage to reds. Got my kill rate down to 0.4 from 4.7, damage down to 40k from avg. of 440K, win rate down to 30% from 75%. I was seeing all destriers and cossacks at the bottom with my hangar unchanged from 4/8 mediums and lights. I kept track and i hit rock bottom about 35-40 straight ejects into my experiment. Use this information however you like, i'm starting my climb back up to the middle.
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Post by zman on Jan 23, 2017 19:44:07 GMT -5
No problem. I wish they were transparent too. So, I got tired of waiting and decided to dust off the old scientific method, take what they gave of us "Hanger Strength + Elo" and use it to explain just what was going on. Once the Default Elo is low part became apparent the whole thing made sense and it is indeed settling from the top down as espected. I even tested it with varying hanger strengths from up where it is mostly settle to throwing it into the turbulance and chaos and can littler see it happen. My recent text also disproves the "Pure Elo" hypothesis. Could be confirmation bias, but no other hypothesis explains what we are seeing yet. I may not have got it perfect, but it is the best we got to explain it with Pix being tight lipped. I can confirm that the new MM is mostly results/performance based. I ejected from 50 straight matches after capping 1 beacon and causing a little damage to reds. Got my kill rate down to 0.4 from 4.7, damage down to 40k from avg. of 440K, win rate down to 30% from 75%. I was seeing all destriers and cossacks at the bottom with my hangar unchanged from 4/8 mediums and lights. I kept track and i hit rock bottom about 35-40 straight ejects into my experiment. Use this information however you like, i'm starting my climb back up to the middle. Or, according to my theory you tanked your Elo down to essentially nothing and your entire matchmaking score was equal to your Hanger, while your low level opponents were fielding weak hangers but had an established Elo score. Your combined matchmaking score was so low the system deemed them appropriate competition. Med Hanger Strength + Tanked Elo = Weak Hanger Strength + Established Elo. It is majority performance based, but if someone ranks their Elo as low as it can go and are being fielded against legitimate hanger + Elo. Once Pix fixes the loophole in the system you're using of just ejecting to purposefully tank your Elo, nothing like that would be happening. Basically Pix foolishly didn't think people would purposefully tank their Elo to club up the rise. So naive..... I've done testing That shows hanger strength matters. But, hanger strength may only be roughly half of your score and someone that intentionally tanks their Elo will still be able to dip into the kiddy pool. Pix is aware of the loophole and will fix it sometime in the future. Of course we will never be told about it directly.
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Post by Dead Mechanism on Jan 23, 2017 20:06:22 GMT -5
I still can't get my head around it.
"Skill" is determined by stats, and stats are a direct reflection of equipment. I get that if we all had 1/1 Destriers and went head to head, some of us will be a lot better than others.
But there's no metric for that, no "base" skill ranking established by Pixo. So basically I just don't see how anyone can accurately establish anyone's skill in a game like this when so much tactical advantage and ability to inflict damage depends on the bot setup you use. My old 4/12 Gep line up established my win % and damage score. I would not have the same % or score if I had to play with only Cossacks the whole time.
To that point, tanking you stats and starting from zero seems in my mind as the most accurate way to figure out your "rank" in the game. It doesn't seem like gaming the system, it seems like resetting the system and allowing yourself to climb where you should.
I understand you are all saying at some point it will SETTLE there eventually anyway, but yikes, the unevenness of these matchups is brutal.
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Post by Ⅎ₹ѺC₭₩ELDEℲ₹ on Jan 23, 2017 20:07:48 GMT -5
Not seeing much of a difference honestly...
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Post by blastronaut on Jan 23, 2017 20:27:32 GMT -5
I can confirm that the new MM is mostly results/performance based. I ejected from 50 straight matches after capping 1 beacon and causing a little damage to reds. Got my kill rate down to 0.4 from 4.7, damage down to 40k from avg. of 440K, win rate down to 30% from 75%. I was seeing all destriers and cossacks at the bottom with my hangar unchanged from 4/8 mediums and lights. I kept track and i hit rock bottom about 35-40 straight ejects into my experiment. Use this information however you like, i'm starting my climb back up to the middle. Or, according to my theory you tanked your Elo down to essentially nothing and your entire matchmaking score was equal to your Hanger, while your low level opponents were fielding weak hangers but had an established Elo score. Your combined matchmaking score was so low the system deemed them appropriate competition. Med Hanger Strength + Tanked Elo = Weak Hanger Strength + Established Elo. It is majority performance based, but if someone ranks their Elo as low as it can go and are being fielded against legitimate hanger + Elo. Once Pix fixes the loophole in the system you're using of just ejecting to purposefully tank your Elo, nothing like that would be happening. Basically Pix foolishly didn't think people would purposefully tank their Elo to club up the rise. So naive..... I've done testing That shows hanger strength matters. But, hanger strength may only be roughly half of your score and someone that intentionally tanks their Elo will still be able to dip into the kiddy pool. Pix is aware of the loophole and will fix it sometime in the future. Of course we will never be told about it directly. Yeah maybe. But that's your theory. If hangar had a meaningful contribution to your MM score I could not be facing only extremely new players with 1/1 destriers and cossacks. Literally it was my normal hangar playing with 11 destriers.
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Post by player1hasleft on Jan 23, 2017 21:20:48 GMT -5
Won't let me post on my thread because of MANY MM Rants. Seems ELO MM was implemented on android today? Seriously what the 「fluffernutter」 is Pixo doing with this game? Feels like pix is being a 「wee-wee」, when it gets uncomfortable on the right side, flip it to the left side. The only thing left for them to do it bend it over and put it inside their own 「bum-bum」.
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Post by Divine Thunder on Jan 23, 2017 21:25:09 GMT -5
I still can't get my head around it. "Skill" is determined by stats, and stats are a direct reflection of equipment. I get that if we all had 1/1 Destriers and went head to head, some of us will be a lot better than others. But there's no metric for that, no "base" skill ranking established by Pixo. So basically I just don't see how anyone can accurately establish anyone's skill in a game like this when so much tactical advantage and ability to inflict damage depends on the bot setup you use. My old 4/12 Gep line up established my win % and damage score. I would not have the same % or score if I had to play with only Cossacks the whole time. To that point, tanking you stats and starting from zero seems in my mind as the most accurate way to figure out your "rank" in the game. It doesn't seem like gaming the system, it seems like resetting the system and allowing yourself to climb where you should. I understand you are all saying at some point it will SETTLE there eventually anyway, but yikes, the unevenness of these matchups is brutal. The old mm was basically built upon the "potential" of the hanger. In the new mm, that potential is transformed into a "kinetic" reality through a series of matches. The first mm was about what your hanger could do and you were matched with and against similar hangers. Now, after a series of matches, how you faired, win/lose, reveals how you can transform that potential into results. It really cannot be calculated, it has to be revealed through action. That is why it takes a series of matches. We all started this new mm with the same kinetic value. Each win and lose modified that value up and down. That now participates in the matching function.
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Post by ŞĆĦŇIŦŽ€Ł on Jan 23, 2017 21:39:31 GMT -5
Won't let me post on my thread because of MANY MM Rants. Seems ELO MM was implemented on android today? Seriously what the 「fluffernutter」 is Pixo doing with this game? Feels like pix is being a 「wee-wee」, when it gets uncomfortable on the right side, flip it to the left side. The only thing left for them to do it bend it over and put it inside their own 「bum-bum」. New ELO MM implemented to android today They're trying to pit users with/against those with similar skill levels, but since it's just released, it needs a couple matches to adjust, hence why you may be getting too easy or too hard matches
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patriot
Destrier
Posts: 10
Karma: 1
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Post by patriot on Jan 23, 2017 21:51:34 GMT -5
Late yesterday I played 13 games straight where at least 1 player did zero damage & got zero beacons. Just stood there until we lost. Makes sense now, they were dropping their win rate. If you can't beat them, join them!
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Post by Dredd77 on Jan 23, 2017 22:12:53 GMT -5
If you can't beat them, join them! Not sure I'd recommend that.
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