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Post by Dredd77 on Oct 25, 2017 20:20:11 GMT -5
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Post by islandmojo671 on Oct 25, 2017 20:28:27 GMT -5
I didnt receive wsp deal today did pix stop it?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2017 20:35:50 GMT -5
I didnt receive wsp deal today did pix stop it? "Targeted offers based on demographics" totally unbiased. You're just unlucky.
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expletivedeleted
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Post by expletivedeleted on Oct 25, 2017 20:36:23 GMT -5
Yes but you are falling for their game hook, line and sinker. Here is the play:
1. advertising something for an outrageous price which is 10 (or more) times the price of comparable products 2. then offer a 30% Off "deal" for said overpriced product 3. laugh all the way to the bank as people throw fistfulls of money at you because of the "great value discount" your are now offering
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Post by Dredd77 on Oct 25, 2017 20:50:13 GMT -5
Yes but you are falling for their game hook, line and sinker. Here is the play: 1. advertising something for an outrageous price which is 10 (or more) times the price of comparable products 2. then offer a 30% Off "deal" for said overpriced product 3. laugh all the way to the bank as people throw fistfulls of money at you because of the "great value discount" your are now offering Skimmed the piece, did you?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2017 20:56:38 GMT -5
Dredd77, what would you think of the a deal of 180 Kumiho components and 120 Haechi components for 500 gold?
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Post by Landy on Oct 25, 2017 20:58:38 GMT -5
Haven't gotten a chance to read it but just wanted to point out that the dark text under the header is many times almost impossible to make out. I don't even try to read it anymore but I usually read every word on your topics.
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Post by Dredd77 on Oct 25, 2017 21:05:32 GMT -5
Dredd77 , what would you think of the a deal of 180 Kumiho components and 120 Haechi components for 500 gold? Using the method in the article, that's $7.50 in value for $5.00, for a 1.5 return.
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Post by Dredd77 on Oct 25, 2017 21:06:04 GMT -5
Haven't gotten a chance to read it but just wanted to point out that the dark text under the header is many times almost impossible to make out. I don't even try to read it anymore but I usually read every word on your topics. Thanks! Yeah, that's a "feature" with the template. Still trying to figure out how to change it.
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roadbot
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Post by roadbot on Oct 25, 2017 21:34:48 GMT -5
Yes but you are falling for their game hook, line and sinker. Here is the play: 1. advertising something for an outrageous price which is 10 (or more) times the price of comparable products 2. then offer a 30% Off "deal" for said overpriced product 3. laugh all the way to the bank as people throw fistfulls of money at you because of the "great value discount" your are now offering Finally someone that gets it.
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Post by zer00eyz on Oct 25, 2017 22:25:42 GMT -5
Uhh --- You missed the part where the "great value" is on 1/2 the light bulb, you still have to pay full price for the other half AND the electricity to make it work --- Even after all this mucking about with WSP trading one of the k-bots would still cost ME more than a returning player.
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Post by T34 on Oct 25, 2017 22:46:09 GMT -5
Dredd77 , what would you think of the a deal of 180 Kumiho components and 120 Haechi components for 500 gold? Using the method in the article, that's $7.50 in value for $5.00, for a 1.5 return. and @darkangel12s
I look at this differently. My perspective as follows. In AUS dollars as that's the only currency that I can verify.
For starters, bear with me for a moment and for argument’s sake lets say you want the Haechi out of the deal. If so, you need to ignore the component offer associated with the Kumi. That is of no real benefit to you. The other reason why you should ignore the Kumi component portion because it is very likely that the Haechi will be bundled with other components later on (its already happening). In the long term you are likely to end up with one Haechi and 1/7th of everything else. The left over components are of no benefit to you as all you have done is sunk your money into 1/7th of everything else which you don’t get a benefit from. It is like an investment banker telling you that he will give you 20% return on your investment of $1M but the catch is that you have to deposit another $7M which you will receive no interest payments against. Hang on, and if you want to withdraw the $7M you will only get $1M worth of Chinese currency.
Based on the above, the maths is: Best Haechi buy price (4500+4500+850+200) = 160+160+31+8 which is $AUS 359 Under the offers you pay (in Au): 10,000/120 x 500 = 41,667 Au At full gold price (converted at best rate which here is 14K au for $160) = $476
So this looks really bad. Now you may think, what the hack, I just go for all 8 items because than I can combine the value of each component in the bundle. But that approach will only help you if the components for items are offered in equal amounts over time (which again does not seem to be the case). So you could end up with 1 haechi, .8 Inquisitor, 232 tempests 344 scourges, 2 kumis….. ? The above mentioned deal is very poor. This mechanism is so open to manipulation (like the BM wheel) that any long term future planning is next to impossible and what you get out of this is what Pixonic wants you to have. It’s a SCAM. It is a SCAM because many people don’t work through the maths and despite a seeming discount offer you are actually going to end up paying more. You pay as much as Pixonic wants to sell the item for. And in this particular case the 120haech+180kumiho offer is appalling and is only for suckers like those that buy a taran for $65.
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Post by T34 on Oct 26, 2017 0:11:02 GMT -5
Just a bit of a follow on from the above post.
When should you buy component offers for gold. Assuming you want to maximise the benefit of your gold purchases or the potential benefit from your gold stockpile.
Haechi is used as an example. Applies to other items as well but the maths has to be reworked.
Summary: 1. Don’t buy offers where less than 357 components are offered for 1000 Au. If you do you are paying more than the straight off buy out price which equates to 28,000 Au 2. Consider offers when the number of components is more than 714. That equates to 14,000 Au for the item 3. Jump on offers when 1430 components are offered for 1000 Au 4. These recommendations hold for the dash bots as they are assumed to be priced equally. Numbers need to be readjusted for items with higher or lower RM value.
Detail and logic: At the moment Pixonic has a range price just like there was a ranged price with the first and second BM chests. We do not know what that is. So the question really becomes how much is that Haechi really worth to you. I suspect the offers are driven by an algorithm that will extract the maximum value out of you should you start purchasing using gold. As per above, ignoring other components in the bundle, you should not buy anything with gold when a completed item at the offered rates is priced above the gold value of $359. Provided you are looking for a discount.
That mark is at $359 Au gold price. At the best conversion rate that is 28,000 Au. At that price the components are priced at the same rate as a buy now price. So the number of components in the bundle needs to be at least 357 per 1000 gold price.
For me a haechi is not worth 28,000 gold. IMO Pigsonic have played their hand when they offered the dashes for 14,000 Au to low ranked dormant account holders. Eventually that will be the price IMO. At 14,000 Au you need to see at least 714 components in a 1000 gold offer. Anything above that is good value and should be taken. The 1430 components offer is very good for a Haechi.
Note 1: if you purchase discount gold then the component offers can be discounted by the same margin for the above to hold true.
Note 2: Formula to use for determining value is
10,000 / X x Y = gold price X = components offered (for your preferred haechi) Y = gold price for component bundle
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Post by Fry on Oct 26, 2017 1:01:20 GMT -5
Just a bit of a follow on from the above post. When should you buy component offers for gold. Assuming you want to maximise the benefit of your gold purchases or the potential benefit from your gold stockpile. Haechi is used as an example. Applies to other items as well but the maths has to be reworked. Summary: 1. Don’t buy offers where less than 357 components are offered for 1000 Au. If you do you are paying more than the straight off buy out price which equates to 28,000 Au 2. Consider offers when the number of components is more than 714. That equates to 14,000 Au for the item 3. Jump on offers when 1430 components are offered for 1000 Au 4. These recommendations hold for the dash bots as they are assumed to be priced equally. Numbers need to be readjusted for items with higher or lower RM value. Detail and logic: At the moment Pixonic has a range price just like there was a ranged price with the first and second BM chests. We do not know what that is. So the question really becomes how much is that Haechi really worth to you. I suspect the offers are driven by an algorithm that will extract the maximum value out of you should you start purchasing using gold. As per above, ignoring other components in the bundle, you should not buy anything with gold when a completed item at the offered rates is priced above the gold value of $359. Provided you are looking for a discount. That mark is at $359 Au gold price. At the best conversion rate that is 28,000 Au. At that price the components are priced at the same rate as a buy now price. So the number of components in the bundle needs to be at least 357 per 1000 gold price. For me a haechi is not worth 28,000 gold. IMO Pigsonic have played their hand when they offered the dashes for 14,000 Au to low ranked dormant account holders. Eventually that will be the price IMO. At 14,000 Au you need to see at least 714 components in a 1000 gold offer. Anything above that is good value and should be taken. The 1430 components offer is very good for a Haechi. Note 1: if you purchase discount gold then the component offers can be discounted by the same margin for the above to hold true. Note 2: Formula to use for determining value is 10,000 / X x Y = gold price X = components offered (for your preferred haechi) Y = gold price for component bundle Thank you T34, your post has cleared offers for me and I like it because now I can take good deals.
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Post by arakos on Oct 26, 2017 1:39:32 GMT -5
Thank you for your work, Dredd77 , but this is the first time I completely disagree with your way of looking at reality, that is how you value the offers. For several reasons: 1. As you say, we have no information on how the next offers will be. I think their were terrible the first day, very good the second day with that offer of 1.430 Haechi components for 1k gold, and they have worsening day by day afterwards. 2. Offers are in pairs. That, from my humble opinion, lessens their value. You sum up the value of both items, I wouldn't. Why? because unless you have a huge, I mean really huge like hundreds of thousands of gold and even more WSP, you will likely concentrate on one or two items at most. For example if you want two Embers, you better ONLY buy those offers, or you simply won't get them in years. So I would only consider the value of the item you want most in each offer. The second one is irrelevant, because you'll never (ok: almost never) get 10.000 components for it. Btw, offers shouldn't come in pairs, they should be of only one item so people can pick theirs in an easier way and so we could easily figure out how much an item costs in terms of gold or WSP (for that particular offer). 3. Value should come from comparisons with the value of previous items. A Lancelot costs 5k gold. It was a new item when it came out. And it came out for 5k gold. The Carnage had a fixed cost in WSP, and so on. We should now be able to easily see how much the gold and WSP a new item costs, so that we can compare it to previous items. Ok I'll try to explain myself. @ asks you about an offer: Dredd77 , what would you think of the a deal of 180 Kumiho components and 120 Haechi components for 500 gold? Using the method in the article, that's $7.50 in value for $5.00, for a 1.5 return. Your answer is: for that offer you have a 1.5 return. If this was the stock market, I'd run and spend all my savings on it. But frankly I don't think your answer gives useful information. There is other way of looking at that offer: 1. If what you want is a Kumiho, that offer values the Kumiho in 27.778 gold. Do you like that price? Then take it. Otherwise, DON'T 2. If what you want is a Haechi, that offer values the Haechi in 46.667 gold. Do you like that price? Then take it. Otherwise, DON'T noobcake started an excellent thread called "Components Deals Breakdown". As I have stated before, it should be a sticky. And I say this politely, thanking you again four your great work in so many posts: that thread gives more useful information on how to ponder components offers. Arakos PS: in the example above, one might think: "oh, for 46.667 gold I get a Haechi... but I also get a Kumiho!". WRONG. Pixonic won't pair Haechi components always with Kumiho's ones. They pair them with all other components: Bulgasari's, Ember's, Shocktrain´s, Scourge's, Inquisitor's, Tempest's and I bet with new item's components when they come out. So as you take the Haechi components offers you'll end up with a lot of other item's components. These are, in my opinion, IRRELEVANT as to considering the value of an offer if you are searching for a particular item. Only if you (really) want both items in an offer they should be taken into consideration.
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Post by T34 on Oct 26, 2017 2:14:58 GMT -5
As per arakos above I also thank you for your work. While I don't agree with your underlying assumptions to represent the current environment it doesn't take away from the effort you put in. Despite the disagreement it started the discussion for the benefit of the community. That's is commendable and of high importance.
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expletivedeleted
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Post by expletivedeleted on Oct 26, 2017 15:56:46 GMT -5
Yes but you are falling for their game hook, line and sinker. Here is the play: 1. advertising something for an outrageous price which is 10 (or more) times the price of comparable products 2. then offer a 30% Off "deal" for said overpriced product 3. laugh all the way to the bank as people throw fistfulls of money at you because of the "great value discount" your are now offering Skimmed the piece, did you? Yup - are you saying I missed the part where you address the fact that these bots and weapons are way way overpriced for the in game value they offer? Because in all honesty i did not see anything to that effect in my skimming.
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Post by Dredd77 on Oct 26, 2017 16:06:53 GMT -5
Skimmed the piece, did you? Yup - are you saying I missed the part where you address the fact that these bots and weapons are way way overpriced for the in game value they offer? Because in all honesty i did not see anything to that effect in my skimming. I specifically stated the piece was looking at the data in isolation, and not passing judgment on the prices. I understand- and share- the opinion that these prices are unreasonable. But that's beyond the scope of this analysis. Of the folks taking issue with this piece, most seem to be getting hung up on that part of it.
Whether or not something is "worth" the money is ultimately a subjective statement. An Inquisitor is not "worth" $350 to me. It may be worth it to someone else. What I sought to do here was simple: now that we have new offers for Components and can establish dollar values on all currencies in the transaction, how do the outlay/inlay amounts compare.
In that regard, Pixonic is giving you 150% to 200% return. Is that a good deal? Yes. Is that inflated by the ridiculous valuation Pixo assigned these assets? Also yes. But in absolute terms, those are the numbers.
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expletivedeleted
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Post by expletivedeleted on Oct 26, 2017 16:26:21 GMT -5
The whole deal and discount discussion is a red herring:
No bot or weapon is worth that much money, gold or WSP - nor should it be - because if it actually was then that would unbalance the game into uselessness
There is only ever one reason to such ridiculous offerings - to scam money from people who have more money than sense
Also given there are currently 4 bots and 4 weapons - so 8 pieces of equipment - that means there are 28 possible pairing combinations - can you see yet what game we are playing by pairing the offers like they do?? These offers will be increasingly individualized and fine tuned to ensure you NEVER get the full amount for any one piece without paying some real money. They will let you get 50 or maybe even 80% there to make it look like you can do it - but then you tragically run out of Gold and WSP - what to do....
The best advice i can give is to stop trying to rationalize any of this and start with the base assumption of "How is this trying to rip me off?"
Intellectually I can appreciate their skill of manipulating people into thinking that they have a chance (or that chance is involved at all) however form a moral perspective I resent the fact that this is manipulating not just adults who "could" know better but also large numbers of kids who just want to have fun and are simply not equipped to see through any of this.
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expletivedeleted
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Post by expletivedeleted on Oct 26, 2017 16:32:55 GMT -5
Yup - are you saying I missed the part where you address the fact that these bots and weapons are way way overpriced for the in game value they offer? Because in all honesty i did not see anything to that effect in my skimming. I specifically stated the piece was looking at the data in isolation, and not passing judgment on the prices. I understand- and share- the opinion that these prices are unreasonable. But that's beyond the scope of this analysis. Of the folks taking issue with this piece, most seem to be getting hung up on that part of it.
Whether or not something is "worth" the money is ultimately a subjective statement. An Inquisitor is not "worth" $350 to me. It may be worth it to someone else. What I sought to do here was simple: now that we have new offers for Components and can establish dollar values on all currencies in the transaction, how do the outlay/inlay amounts compare.
In that regard, Pixonic is giving you 150% to 200% return. Is that a good deal? Yes. Is that inflated by the ridiculous valuation Pixo assigned these assets? Also yes. But in absolute terms, those are the numbers.
See this now makes me wonder just who you are trying to help by asking us to ignore the overpriced elephant in the room - and then declaring a deal involving this overpriced elephant as "good" ??!!
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Post by krebby on Oct 26, 2017 17:29:51 GMT -5
Yup - are you saying I missed the part where you address the fact that these bots and weapons are way way overpriced for the in game value they offer? Because in all honesty i did not see anything to that effect in my skimming. I specifically stated the piece was looking at the data in isolation, and not passing judgment on the prices. I understand- and share- the opinion that these prices are unreasonable. But that's beyond the scope of this analysis. Of the folks taking issue with this piece, most seem to be getting hung up on that part of it.
Whether or not something is "worth" the money is ultimately a subjective statement. An Inquisitor is not "worth" $350 to me. It may be worth it to someone else. What I sought to do here was simple: now that we have new offers for Components and can establish dollar values on all currencies in the transaction, how do the outlay/inlay amounts compare.
In that regard, Pixonic is giving you 150% to 200% return. Is that a good deal? Yes. Is that inflated by the ridiculous valuation Pixo assigned these assets? Also yes. But in absolute terms, those are the numbers.
I do not question your integrity or your analysis. I do, however, find myself unable to agree with a few relevant assumptions that drive the analysis. The two assumptions that seem off to me concern the exchange rate between: (1) Au and Ag, and (2) Au and WSP. Please allow me to explain. You are correct that you *can* exchange Au for Ag, and Au for WSP, within War Robots, but I do not believe those exchange rates are accurate/reliable indicators of the value of Ag and WSP. Au can be purchased for real money directly, so the exchange rate between Au and real money is stable. Ag, however, can only be purchased using Au at an exchange rate set by Pixonic. Ag doesn't "float" against Au. If demand for Ag goes down, you don't suddenly get more of it in exchange for Au—you still get 500,000 Ag for 250 Au. The problem here is that I seriously doubt that Pixonic's exchange rate is anywhere near players' valuation of those goods. I've seen dozens of threads from players talking about purchasing new Au weapons and bots; I have never heard of a single player who traded Au for Ag. Think about it: is 50,000,000 Ag *really* worth over $100? Does anyone *really* sit there and ponder whether they would rather buy: (1) 3 Lancelots and a Galahad; or (2) 50,000,000 Ag, with their Au? Sure, one can convert 18,500 Au into 50,000,000, but I imagine vanishingly few people do. So the fact that in-game conversion from dollars($)-to-Au-to-*whatever* is possible doesn't mean the same $ value is retained at the end of the chain. To me, the relevant method of assessing the value of component deals is this—If I were to buy, e.g., 3.2% of a Tempest (knowing that my purchase is worthless until I have the remaining 96.8%), am I willing to spend X amount of Au or WSP? Au is generally easier to think about in terms of $ of course because you buy it directly. If the price seems absurd to me, then it is irrelevant that there are even more expensive ways to obtain that 3.2% of a Tempest (that is worthless until they have the remaining 96.8%). And comparisons showing that "Absurd Price A" is lower than "Absurd Price B" doesn't matter too much. For some, WSP-to-component exchanges might be ok because they already have all the WSP items they want/need, and so WSP has no value to them anymore. For a few, Au may fall into the same category because they already have all the Au bots and weapons they want/need. For these players, trading WSP or Au for 3.2% of a Tempest (that is worthless until they have the remaining 96.8%) might be Ok because, well, something is better than nothing. I hope this helps explain why people can read you analysis and think: "I cannot agree that anything above XYZ qualifies as 'good value.'" Also, I know you're trying to show Pixonic that they're currently making a colossal series of mistakes. I wish you luck, and thank you for your efforts. Please tell them we wish they would go back to concentrating on how to make a silly and fun game about robots fighting, rather than new ways to sell power, obfuscate absurd prices, and manipulate their customers.
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Post by T34 on Oct 26, 2017 18:04:19 GMT -5
I specifically stated the piece was looking at the data in isolation, and not passing judgment on the prices. I understand- and share- the opinion that these prices are unreasonable. But that's beyond the scope of this analysis. Of the folks taking issue with this piece, most seem to be getting hung up on that part of it.
Whether or not something is "worth" the money is ultimately a subjective statement. An Inquisitor is not "worth" $350 to me. It may be worth it to someone else. What I sought to do here was simple: now that we have new offers for Components and can establish dollar values on all currencies in the transaction, how do the outlay/inlay amounts compare.
In that regard, Pixonic is giving you 150% to 200% return. Is that a good deal? Yes. Is that inflated by the ridiculous valuation Pixo assigned these assets? Also yes. But in absolute terms, those are the numbers.
See this now makes me wonder just who you are trying to help by asking us to ignore the overpriced elephant in the room - and then declaring a deal involving this overpriced elephant as "good" ??!!Pix logic I suppose
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Post by ᎶƦ℮℮ƊᎽ ƤΛƝƊΛ on Oct 26, 2017 18:07:44 GMT -5
Nice article. As a measly “normal” person that can’t afford these things, I appreciate the bit about the absolute value still being a concern.
I’d like to point out one other concern, is the targeted offers. They have admitted to targeting specific offers to specific players based on statistics they have on individual accounts. My bet is that if you are 2500 components away from a particular bot, you will stop seeing offers for those components and will be forced to spend the $50-75 to complete your purchase (depending on which bot you are collecting). Obviously just a theory, but it fits the model they’ve based other offers on.
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Post by CrownBlack on Oct 26, 2017 18:11:08 GMT -5
I specifically stated the piece was looking at the data in isolation, and not passing judgment on the prices. I understand- and share- the opinion that these prices are unreasonable. But that's beyond the scope of this analysis. Of the folks taking issue with this piece, most seem to be getting hung up on that part of it.
Whether or not something is "worth" the money is ultimately a subjective statement. An Inquisitor is not "worth" $350 to me. It may be worth it to someone else. What I sought to do here was simple: now that we have new offers for Components and can establish dollar values on all currencies in the transaction, how do the outlay/inlay amounts compare.
In that regard, Pixonic is giving you 150% to 200% return. Is that a good deal? Yes. Is that inflated by the ridiculous valuation Pixo assigned these assets? Also yes. But in absolute terms, those are the numbers.
See this now makes me wonder just who you are trying to help by asking us to ignore the overpriced elephant in the room - and then declaring a deal involving this overpriced elephant as "good" ??!!Here is the issue for me. These alleged deals whether good or bad will only get someone so far. You will not be able to build a bot with them without some point getting out the credit card to buy keys, Au or components.
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Post by Dredd77 on Oct 26, 2017 18:34:24 GMT -5
I specifically stated the piece was looking at the data in isolation, and not passing judgment on the prices. I understand- and share- the opinion that these prices are unreasonable. But that's beyond the scope of this analysis. Of the folks taking issue with this piece, most seem to be getting hung up on that part of it.
Whether or not something is "worth" the money is ultimately a subjective statement. An Inquisitor is not "worth" $350 to me. It may be worth it to someone else. What I sought to do here was simple: now that we have new offers for Components and can establish dollar values on all currencies in the transaction, how do the outlay/inlay amounts compare.
In that regard, Pixonic is giving you 150% to 200% return. Is that a good deal? Yes. Is that inflated by the ridiculous valuation Pixo assigned these assets? Also yes. But in absolute terms, those are the numbers.
See this now makes me wonder just who you are trying to help by asking us to ignore the overpriced elephant in the room - and then declaring a deal involving this overpriced elephant as "good" ??!!I wrote something. You didn’t read it, but still felt the need to get your two cents in. Someone else wrote something on this forum, an in-depth analysis. You posted “too long, didn’t read.” Youre not here to listen. Just to spout off. So knock yourself out. Let’s just not kid ourselves on that it’s anything remotely constructive.
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Post by ᎶƦ℮℮ƊᎽ ƤΛƝƊΛ on Oct 26, 2017 18:39:54 GMT -5
See this now makes me wonder just who you are trying to help by asking us to ignore the overpriced elephant in the room - and then declaring a deal involving this overpriced elephant as "good" ??!!I wrote something. You didn’t read it, but still felt the need to get your two cents in. Someone else wrote something on this forum, an in-depth analysis. You posted “too long, didn’t read.” Youre not here to listen. Just to spout off. So knock yourself out. Let’s just not kid ourselves on that it’s anything remotely constructive. As someone who doesn’t get along with Dredd77, I agree with him here. His article wasn’t pro Pixonic in the least, and wasn’t telling anyone to ignore anything. It was simply un-biased analysis and that was it. He even pointed out that the seemingly “good return” still means nothing to the average joe.
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expletivedeleted
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Post by expletivedeleted on Oct 26, 2017 19:04:11 GMT -5
See this now makes me wonder just who you are trying to help by asking us to ignore the overpriced elephant in the room - and then declaring a deal involving this overpriced elephant as "good" ??!!I wrote something. You didn’t read it, but still felt the need to get your two cents in. Someone else wrote something on this forum, an in-depth analysis. You posted “too long, didn’t read.” Youre not here to listen. Just to spout off. So knock yourself out. Let’s just not kid ourselves on that it’s anything remotely constructive. Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is where an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself. Keep on digging - you are doing a much better job at it than i ever could(;o) Just to bring it back on topic - The "substance of the argument " is that if you ask the reader to ignore the biggest sticking point of the issue then any and all analysis that follows is is at best pointless and at worst manipulative. Just to illustrate - an extreme example would be: "If you put aside the genocidal mania then you have to admit that the nazis did a good job building Autobahns in Germany." I choose an extreme example in the hope that it will enable you to see the problem with that statement - and statements that are similar in nature but smaller in severety?
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Post by Dredd77 on Oct 26, 2017 19:17:55 GMT -5
I wrote something. You didn’t read it, but still felt the need to get your two cents in. Someone else wrote something on this forum, an in-depth analysis. You posted “too long, didn’t read.” Youre not here to listen. Just to spout off. So knock yourself out. Let’s just not kid ourselves on that it’s anything remotely constructive. Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is where an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself. Keep on digging - you are doing a much better job at it than i ever could(;o) Just to bring it back on topic - The "substance of the argument " is that if you ask the reader to ignore the biggest sticking point of the issue then any and all analysis that follows is is at best pointless and at worst manipulative. Just to illustrate - an extreme example would be: "If you put aside the genocidal mania then you have to admit that the nazis did a good job building Autobahns in Germany." I choose an extreme example in the hope that it will enable you to see the problem with that statement - and statements that are similar in nature but smaller in Wow, you are totally unique, bringing material we have never seen here from any other troll, ever. Or something.
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expletivedeleted
Destrier
Posts: 28
Karma: 15
Pilot name: ExpletiveDelete
Platform: Android
League: Diamond
Server Region: Asia
Favorite robot: DB - though it never lives for long
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Post by expletivedeleted on Oct 26, 2017 19:20:46 GMT -5
Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is where an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself. Keep on digging - you are doing a much better job at it than i ever could(;o) Just to bring it back on topic - The "substance of the argument " is that if you ask the reader to ignore the biggest sticking point of the issue then any and all analysis that follows is is at best pointless and at worst manipulative. Just to illustrate - an extreme example would be: "If you put aside the genocidal mania then you have to admit that the nazis did a good job building Autobahns in Germany." I choose an extreme example in the hope that it will enable you to see the problem with that statement - and statements that are similar in nature but smaller in Wow, you are totally unique, bringing material we have never seen here from any other troll, ever. Or something. Wow doubling down on the personal attack - I wonder which president taught you that strategy
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Post by T34 on Oct 26, 2017 19:22:09 GMT -5
Ok. what dredd did was a value analysis. More like part 1 of a value analysis and the work is incomplete as it did not take into account every aspect of the product on offer. By not taking every feature into account and not relating them to real world conditions the cost of the product was not established and hence the value propositions presented are inaccurate.
Such value analysis needs to identify the best offer at the least cost from which the customer gets the most benefit from. Ratios presented are not accurate and of little value for decision making due to critical aspects not being considered. At the end of the day this sort of work needs say, you should buy if.... and don't buy if....and if you buy at that value than that benefit derived is x.
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