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Post by Russel on Jun 13, 2017 10:33:42 GMT -5
Going deeper into the issue, the prices for premium items in this game have always been outrageous when you compare to other mobile games. This has been mitigated by the fact that it's never been a true pay-to-win game, and the fact that the prices weren't frequently shoved in your face. So it was easy to simply forget about the fact that you basically have to pay $100 for a single good bot with good weapons. (Slight exaggeration) Basically, people have always had a gripe with the steep prices Pixonic charges for little in return. I think I did a calculation a while back based on the endgame meta, and it would've cost at the time over $4,700 to get a maxed top tier hangar from scratch. In most mobile games, you can buy top level everything for anywhere between $500-$1,500. Far less than what Pixonic demands. But, you don't NEED to spend money in War Robots to get there eventually, and it didn't constantly remind you how much things cost. I am getting some information from people on WIKI, and what I keep hearing is "wow, this game is SO CHEAP!". What game do you comparing it to? I can assure you that RealRacing, Clash of Clans, Clash Royale, would be at leas x10 times more expensive to get to the top; and in the end you can do that in War Robots for free for decent amount of time (i'd say half a year for an avid player and up to the year for lazy like me). Upd: that of course don't make Pixx less of a fools for putting stupid in-game advices like "speed up upgrade" or "let's upgrade worst possible item for gold". But on the other hand - NO ads, NO energy bars (you can't play until it replenishes), NO pre-rolls, and even NO in-game ads even in form of banners on buildings in the cities.
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Post by mijapi300 on Jun 13, 2017 10:44:21 GMT -5
Going deeper into the issue, the prices for premium items in this game have always been outrageous when you compare to other mobile games. This has been mitigated by the fact that it's never been a true pay-to-win game, and the fact that the prices weren't frequently shoved in your face. So it was easy to simply forget about the fact that you basically have to pay $100 for a single good bot with good weapons. (Slight exaggeration) Basically, people have always had a gripe with the steep prices Pixonic charges for little in return. I think I did a calculation a while back based on the endgame meta, and it would've cost at the time over $4,700 to get a maxed top tier hangar from scratch. In most mobile games, you can buy top level everything for anywhere between $500-$1,500. Far less than what Pixonic demands. But, you don't NEED to spend money in War Robots to get there eventually, and it didn't constantly remind you how much things cost. I am getting some information from people on WIKI, and what I keep hearing is "wow, this game is SO CHEAP!". What game do you comparing it to? I can assure you that RealRacing, Clash of Clans, Clash Royale, would be at leas x10 times more expensive to get to the top; and in the end you can do that in War Robots for free for decent amount of time (i'd say half a year for an avid player and up to the year for lazy like me). You think it costs $47,000 to get to the top of clash of clans? I'll have to admit that I haven't really played many of the other big games since discovering War Robots because none of them even come close to being as good for pure game play and entertainment value. So my memory of what it costs in other games to reach the top is outdated (they've also added a few TH levels to the top since I played clash too). And the small group of Wiki guys disagree with every one of the small group of squad mates I have. I may be a little biased because until yesterday I've never met anyone willing to spend $75-100 for the equivalent of two or three upgrades. I was also a little more agitated than normal because I was being personally attacked by someone that is supposed to be keeping the forum civil. Basically, if you feel it's worth spending the money and have it to spend then more power to you. I still don't think it's a good deal, and I still don't agree with their decision to start charging 3x the price for new bots they release, or the decision to add layers of conversions to confuse people into what they're getting for what they're spending. In my opinion, they're drifting further and further away from a good business model. And bad business models eventually fail. And I enjoy this game, so it irritates me to see the trends going on.
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Post by Dredd77 on Jun 13, 2017 10:47:16 GMT -5
I am getting some information from people on WIKI, and what I keep hearing is "wow, this game is SO CHEAP!". What game do you comparing it to? I can assure you that RealRacing, Clash of Clans, Clash Royale, would be at leas x10 times more expensive to get to the top; and in the end you can do that in War Robots for free for decent amount of time (i'd say half a year for an avid player and up to the year for lazy like me). I may be a little biased because until yesterday I've never met anyone willing to spend $75-100 for the equivalent of two or three upgrades. I was also a little more agitated than normal because I was being personally attacked by someone that is supposed to be keeping the forum civil. Dude, seriously. We had a lively discussion and it's concluded. Put down the victimhood drum and move on.
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Post by Russel on Jun 13, 2017 10:52:08 GMT -5
I understand that time has a financial value. I'm a finance major. Opportunity cost is real. And it applies to every fraction of every second of your life. Every single thing you do in your life, you could be doing something else. And I get that it would take almost 20 hours of solid gameplay with premium in order to accumulate 33,500,000 silver. Assuming 300k silver per match at 10minute matches. So ~$3.50 per hour would seem like a fairly low financial cost. But there is also an entertainment value you gain from playing the game. Is the lack of happiness and entertainment you lose from not spending that 20 hours actually playing equivalent to the benefit you'll receive from making the purchase up front? These are personal preferences and we could go on for days, so I'll stop rambling about that. Awesome, I agree with every letter here. For me as a F2P player, current income model is very very good. I play 1-2 hours a day, I utilize VIP from TestServer to get more silver, and I am making just enough Silver\Gold for me to advance at comfortable pace. So, getting Silver\Gold as well as entertaining myself.
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Post by mijapi300 on Jun 13, 2017 10:53:37 GMT -5
Dredd77 We had a member bashing session by the most popular and well-liked mod on the forum, and now anything I say anywhere is greeted by a personal attack because of it. So I'm sorry if I have an issue with you because of how you acted yesterday, but I do.
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Post by Russel on Jun 13, 2017 10:56:28 GMT -5
I am getting some information from people on WIKI, and what I keep hearing is "wow, this game is SO CHEAP!". What game do you comparing it to? I can assure you that RealRacing, Clash of Clans, Clash Royale, would be at leas x10 times more expensive to get to the top; and in the end you can do that in War Robots for free for decent amount of time (i'd say half a year for an avid player and up to the year for lazy like me). You think it costs $47,000 to get to the top of clash of clans? I'll have to admit that I haven't really played many of the other big games since discovering War Robots because none of them even come close to being as good for pure game play and entertainment value. So my memory of what it costs in other games to reach the top is outdated (they've also added a few TH levels to the top since I played clash too). And the small group of Wiki guys disagree with every one of the small group of squad mates I have. I may be a little biased because until yesterday I've never met anyone willing to spend $75-100 for the equivalent of two or three upgrades. I was also a little more agitated than normal because I was being personally attacked by someone that is supposed to be keeping the forum civil. Basically, if you feel it's worth spending the money and have it to spend then more power to you. I still don't think it's a good deal, and I still don't agree with their decision to start charging 3x the price for new bots they release, or the decision to add layers of conversions to confuse people into what they're getting for what they're spending. In my opinion, they're drifting further and further away from a good business model. And bad business models eventually fail. And I enjoy this game, so it irritates me to see the trends going on. I'll get you some info. If you would like to know the person's name\contact (if you don't believe me) - I can ask him to contact you or get you his account ID (my words in blue).
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Post by Dredd77 on Jun 13, 2017 11:02:53 GMT -5
Dredd77 We had a member bashing session by the most popular and well-liked mod on the forum, and now anything I say anywhere is greeted by a personal attack because of it. So I'm sorry if I have an issue with you because of how you acted yesterday, but I do. This isn't middle school, however "popular and well-liked" you seem to think I am, people are more than happy to call me out on my BS. And thank God for that. You've convinced yourself that you're getting hammered because you offended "the Dredd fanboys" or something, when in reality, you're getting hammered because you're talking nonsense. And not only are you talking nonsense, but when called on it, you double down with even more nonsense. Nonsense squared. Of course, admitting or even considering that would involve a level of personal accountability you thus far seem highly reluctant to engage in. Everything seems to be someone else's fault. Okay. Despite the fact that I'm a mod, I've been very clear all along that I conduct myself as a poster first, mod second. That means I get to roll up the sleeves and get into it with folks sometimes, too. Most of the time, it's seen for what it is- a spirited and lively debate. You seem to be taking this extremely personally. I noticed that towards the end of the debates we were having yesterday, which is why I moved to close them down. I felt badly that caught up in the spirit of the moment, I hadn't picked up on that sooner. I love arguments, but I don't want to hurt anyone. You simply weren't taking them in the spirit as I was, so one beer gif picture and a compliment later, I figured life goes on. But now you're back today acting like you've nurtured a grudge overnight. If you want to go back and forth like Itchy and Scratchy we can, but man, isn't that a waste of time? Wouldn't you rather be playing War Robots or something?
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Post by mijapi300 on Jun 13, 2017 11:26:46 GMT -5
Dredd77I didn't spew any bull「dookie」, I shared my opinions and provided support for why I have them. You didn't debate my opinions, you attacked my character. You provided to evidence of any of the things you disagreed with, you simply said I'm wrong because I'm a 「dookie」ty person. If you said "this is wrong, and here is how I know that is wrong" or "that's wrong, and this is why I feel that's wrong", we couldn't had a heated and lively debate that actually went somewhere. I'm not one to let someone just put my character on a tee and start swinging at it. If you provided one bit of actual debate, I would've engaged in that. But you decided to pursue my character rather than the issues I was bringing up. Which left me with two options - defend myself, or ignore you. As I stated, I'm not one to let character attacks go. So I'm going to defend myself, and continue to do so as long as you continue to include my character in your comments. You don't know me. You have no idea what kind of person I am. Lastly, you continually ignored anything positive or constructive I was saying in your quest to attack who I am as a person, which again you have no idea about. When I bring up LQ, and suggest a way to fix it, you ignore the suggestion and just attack me for being in it. It would be fine to include an excerpt in your reply stating that you disapprove of me taking advantage of LQ, but that you agree or disagree that it's a problem, and you agree or disagree that my idea would fix the problem. When I say that I think the influence point system is broken, you can say you disagree, that it's great the way it is. Or say, which I think you were trying to get at, that it is a good direction and just needs to be worked on. I actually agree with that, but I don't know for sure if you were saying that because the majority of your comments weren't about the problem or suggestions, it was about me personally. When I say that I think the game is overly expensive, you can disagree and provide examples of other games that are actually more expensive. If I'm presenting an opinion, I'm presenting it based on the information I've been exposed to. You could very well introduce information that I've never seen before and I may even agree with you at that point. But you decided to call me entitled and stick with that. Take Russel for example. I had no idea Clash Royale would cost $10k+ or take several years to reach the top. Now I have a different viewpoint to look at War Robots from. The point is, you didn't debate anything. From the start. You immediately took towards my character. And I continuously tried to bring it back to the actual issues I wanted to discuss, while defending myself from what you were trying to say about me. And you kept ignoring the topic and just restating that I'm a terrible human being. I'm not sure where in any of that you thought we were having a debate rather than a one-sided attack. But yes, I have a problem with you now. And as long as you continue to pretend like you were just having an innocent debate, I'm going to continue to have a problem with you. You bring up personal accountability, yet won't acknowledge the fact that you acted like a complete 「bum-bum hole」. I've already acknowledged I got defensive and agitated, and wouldn't normally conduct myself in that matter. I'm not, however, going to apologize for having an opinion or having the desire to defend my character.
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Post by mijapi300 on Jun 13, 2017 11:28:19 GMT -5
You think it costs $47,000 to get to the top of clash of clans? I'll have to admit that I haven't really played many of the other big games since discovering War Robots because none of them even come close to being as good for pure game play and entertainment value. So my memory of what it costs in other games to reach the top is outdated (they've also added a few TH levels to the top since I played clash too). And the small group of Wiki guys disagree with every one of the small group of squad mates I have. I may be a little biased because until yesterday I've never met anyone willing to spend $75-100 for the equivalent of two or three upgrades. I was also a little more agitated than normal because I was being personally attacked by someone that is supposed to be keeping the forum civil. Basically, if you feel it's worth spending the money and have it to spend then more power to you. I still don't think it's a good deal, and I still don't agree with their decision to start charging 3x the price for new bots they release, or the decision to add layers of conversions to confuse people into what they're getting for what they're spending. In my opinion, they're drifting further and further away from a good business model. And bad business models eventually fail. And I enjoy this game, so it irritates me to see the trends going on. I'll get you some info. If you would like to know the person's name\contact (if you don't believe me) - I can ask him to contact you or get you his account ID (my words in blue). Thats absolutely insane. I had no idea Clash had gotten that bad. Kind of glad I stopped playing it a long time ago. It was always more of a P2P game. I think I got to TH8 in Clans and it was going to take like 3 months to get to TH9 and I gave up. Never got far in Royale before I realized it was more of the same thing.
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Post by Dredd77 on Jun 13, 2017 11:33:01 GMT -5
mijapi300 We'll just have to agree to disagree then.
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Post by Russel on Jun 13, 2017 11:33:27 GMT -5
Dredd77 We had a member bashing session by the most popular and well-liked mod on the forum, and now anything I say anywhere is greeted by a personal attack because of it. So I'm sorry if I have an issue with you because of how you acted yesterday, but I do. This isn't middle school, however "popular and well-liked" you seem to think I am, people are more than happy to call me out on my BS. And thank God for that. You've convinced yourself that you're getting hammered because you offended "the Dredd fanboys" or something, when in reality, you're getting hammered because you're talking nonsense. And not only are you talking nonsense, but when called on it, you double down with even more nonsense. Nonsense squared. Of course, admitting or even considering that would involve a level of personal accountability you thus far seem highly reluctant to engage in. Everything seems to be someone else's fault. Okay. Despite the fact that I'm a mod, I've been very clear all along that I conduct myself as a poster first, mod second. That means I get to roll up the sleeves and get into it with folks sometimes, too. Most of the time, it's seen for what it is- a spirited and lively debate. You seem to be taking this extremely personally. I noticed that towards the end of the debates we were having yesterday, which is why I moved to close them down. I felt badly that caught up in the spirit of the moment, I hadn't picked up on that sooner. I love arguments, but I don't want to hurt anyone. You simply weren't taking them in the spirit as I was, so one beer gif picture and a compliment later, I figured life goes on. But now you're back today acting like you've nurtured a grudge overnight. If you want to go back and forth like Itchy and Scratchy we can, but man, isn't that a waste of time? Wouldn't you rather be playing War Robots or something? Hey, let me bash you, I like doing that to admin moderator :-D In your article you use "WSP"; however it's "WP. And you swapped "best" and "worst" for Hydra.
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Post by Dredd77 on Jun 13, 2017 11:35:47 GMT -5
Russel D'oh! I'll fix that swap. I see other people use WSP though, might just be a bad habit.
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Post by Russel on Jun 13, 2017 11:42:05 GMT -5
Dredd77 You're correct that it is just a difference in opinion based on perceived value. Exclusivity is a valuable characteristic in real markets, although I wouldn't consider these bots to be very exclusive anymore (again, that's opinion based). They're readily available with no limited supply to anyone willing to pay the price. Part of the exclusivity premium in real world markets is cause by a real, tangible lack of supply. These bots had that when they were exclusively offered during events and then off the market. Other games achieve this exclusivity by offering a fixed amount of an item, and then it's off the market forever. Pixonic puts itself in a corner by first offering the item under the assumption that it's exclusive to an event and then later putting it on the market. You can't offer it for cheaper prices than it cost just a few weeks ago without pissing off those that bought the item when they thought it was limited edition. But now you're charging 3x the price for an item compared to other items with similar characteristics. A simple comparison to a real market would be limited edition artwork. It's sold at a premium because it's a limited supply and it's exclusive. What if the artist sold 10 pieces for $50k each because they're the only 10 copies in the world. And then later that year, the artist prints 500,000 more copies. Can he sell those for $50k each? Probably not. Should he charge less for them? Probably not. The solution would've been not deceiving people into thinking they were going to be exclusive in the first place. In a real world situation, those first 10 buyers would likely win a lawsuit against the artist. It's a good topic you picked up - exclusivity and price. Actually, I was thinking about it, A LOT. And I can tell that IMO it would be great if "the best and most current bot available" would be 5K, while older models would cost less. If you can compare it to a car - new, shining, fast piece of metal would be 60~120K USD, depends on make, model, country, etc. But if you go into dealership to pick up _exact_same_car_ but, say which been stored in a dealership for 2 years - would it cost the same? Just because something WAS priced with some tag back then when it was "new and exclusive" doesn't mean that price tag should remain the same. Actually I think Gepard should be 250 gold, Gareth 600, and Jesse 1250, so that older models would be easily available for every player. Maybe with a little nerf (but honestly Dashes are the worst that could happen to Britbots). So yes, exclusivity costs something, and yes, it is good IMO to drop prices for a thing that is no longer "new" or "exclusive". And if people rant about their old precious bot being sold for less - well, I could imagine what they are saying when they selling old cars.
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Post by Russel on Jun 13, 2017 11:43:39 GMT -5
Russel D'oh! I'll fix that swap. I see other people use WSP though, might just be a bad habit. :D Well, mod, consider yourself officially bashed! :-D
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Post by Dredd77 on Jun 13, 2017 11:49:57 GMT -5
Russel D'oh! I'll fix that swap. I see other people use WSP though, might just be a bad habit. Well, mod, consider yourself officially bashed! :-D
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Post by Russel on Jun 13, 2017 11:51:27 GMT -5
Dredd77 .. The point is, you didn't debate anything. From the start. You immediately took towards my character. And I continuously tried to bring it back to the actual issues I wanted to discuss, while defending myself from what you were trying to say about me. And you kept ignoring the topic and just restating that I'm a terrible human being. I'm not sure where in any of that you thought we were having a debate rather than a one-sided attack. But yes, I have a problem with you now. And as long as you continue to pretend like you were just having an innocent debate, I'm going to continue to have a problem with you. You bring up personal accountability, yet won't acknowledge the fact that you acted like a complete ?poo place?. I've already acknowledged I got defensive and agitated, and wouldn't normally conduct myself in that matter. I'm not, however, going to apologize for having an opinion or having the desire to defend my character. Just want to point out that I don't approve Dredd's tone pretty often. My War Robots forum experience actually started from countering Dredd's way of speaking. But he was cool to criticism, and I was not banned right away, so I decided to stay =) I think he's being pretty blatant too often; but for the most part his ideas are good, just presented too harsh to my liking. But hey, what do I know, I was "「fluffernutter」 you" 'ed today in War Robots for giving advice not to use Spirals with Thunder. And then again, in my Raijin thread some people thought I was just trolling community. So maybe Dredd is being polite, and that's just me.
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Post by mijapi300 on Jun 13, 2017 13:54:49 GMT -5
mijapi300 We'll just have to agree to disagree then. If only you had allowed that yesterday. It's a nice scapegoat today, though. *golf clap*
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Post by Dredd77 on Jun 13, 2017 14:05:05 GMT -5
mijapi300 We'll just have to agree to disagree then. If only you had allowed that yesterday. It's a nice scapegoat today, though. *golf clap* Nothing stopped you from saying that at any point yesterday, either. Instead, you chose to rewrite War and Peace.
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Post by mijapi300 on Jun 13, 2017 14:21:36 GMT -5
If only you had allowed that yesterday. It's a nice scapegoat today, though. *golf clap* Nothing stopped you from saying that at any point yesterday, either. Instead, you chose to rewrite War and Peace. I did at one point say that, and your reply was "I don't agree with that either" or something along those lines. I also said multiple times in several of my replies that you don't have to agree with my opinions, but that doesn't give you the right to attack my character.
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