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Post by Dredd77 on Jun 13, 2017 14:27:17 GMT -5
mijapi300 Considering the context (an article celebrating their successes after three years), I'd be certain it was a cross-platform number. Best foot forward, and all that. The real trick would be seeing how they define "players." There is a huge, huge difference between "unique users" and "player sessions," since I often have many multiples of the latter throughout the day.
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Post by mijapi300 on Jun 13, 2017 14:34:59 GMT -5
mijapi300 Considering the context (an article celebrating their successes after three years), I'd be certain it was a cross-platform number. Best foot forward, and all that. The real trick would be seeing how they define "players." There is a huge, huge difference between "unique users" and "player sessions," since I often have many multiples of the latter throughout the day. Yeah, so there's no way to really know what that number means. The amount of unique players each day could range from a couple hundred thousand to the 1.5million figure they show. To add to the speculation, if you consider what they did with the MSRP figures (let's agree on the term incompetence, regardless of intention), this number could very well just be made up. The could've just said "well we have 40m downloads, so 1.5m active players sounds reasonable right?" Lol. Speculation aside, the "data" is only truly useful if you know what it is measuring, and we can't really tell.
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mrx4vi
Destrier
Posts: 33
Karma: 15
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Post by mrx4vi on Jun 13, 2017 16:06:25 GMT -5
Has anyone been able to buy a doc by annoying their friends via Facebook?
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Post by exorcismus on Jun 14, 2017 22:35:52 GMT -5
OP is absolutely right. Influence points and the pricing of the new robots are broken, to say the least. Look at it this way; the butch is merely 1 heavy weapon slot stronger than the fury, and it might not even be as effective in many cases due to the long reload time for quick draw, yet he costs almost three times as much. You are right in that OP is partially doing this because of self-interest, but that's not a bad thing like you would believe. I am angry about this too, and I want to see the price lowered for "self-interest". However, that only shows that war robots is hurting customers, which is neither good for us nor them. I'm a player of this game, and have been loyal to it for a long time, even spending a bit of money here and there. I've been shocked at the pricing of many of the deals the company offers-4 magnums for around 70 dollars!!!, but selling a robot for 100 dollars is taking it too far. You might argue that we don't have to "buy something" if we think its price is unjustified, but the game developers have developed these robots for us, their customers, and if we have a problem with the price tags on what they're making, then IT DOES concern them and it's important that they hear our opinions. The "just don't buy it" argument only works when people are not personally involved-as a way to get people to mind their own business-but this IS our business. Creating robots that we feel terrible about because its expensive and we'll never buy them or spend two years earning enough points for them is personal for us; a pretty extreme but accurate analogy would be like creating a cure for AIDS that sells for 100 times its production price so only the really rich get to have it.
Pixonic, I really hope you lower the prices of the wild west robots lower. Keep in mind that the end goal of all the development you're doing is for the entertainment purposes of your player base, and creating overpriced robots that at most 10% of your players will ever get to use does not achieve that goal. In fact, you'll probably gain more players by word of mouth if people think you're responding to our needs and that your robots are reasonably priced, meaning you'll earn more money in the long run. Take a look at other successful video game marketing strategies-in clash royale, you can get the best card in the game (legendaries) for around 10 dollars (legendary chest). Yet they make so much money because they have many, many players-something you'll achieve better through word of mouth rather than IP rewards for facebook posts people will never post-and because people are much more willing to pay for reasonably priced in-app purchases.
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Post by Firebeard on Jun 15, 2017 0:35:08 GMT -5
It's more fiscally responsible to have 1'000 Players spend $20/diem vs. 100 Players spend $100/diem.
Lower Price = More Sales = Greater Revenue ..
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Post by mijapi300 on Jun 15, 2017 1:03:49 GMT -5
It's more fiscally responsible to have 1'000 Players spend $20/diem vs. 100 Players spend $100/diem. Lower Price = More Sales = Greater Revenue .. This kind of brings clarity in explaining why I feel Pixonic has a bad business model.
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Post by Firebeard on Jun 15, 2017 1:11:12 GMT -5
It's more fiscally responsible to have 1'000 Players spend $20/diem vs. 100 Players spend $100/diem. Lower Price = More Sales = Greater Revenue .. This kind of brings clarity in explaining why I feel Pixonic has a bad business model. Right. In College, one of the Businesses we studied was McDonalds. After Supply and Inventory McDonald's only earns 0.3¢ per hamburger .. but they Sell 1Bln hamburgers lol
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Post by mijapi300 on Jun 15, 2017 1:14:43 GMT -5
FirebeardI honestly can't believe people eat those things. No offense if you do lol. I've never had one and not gotten terribly sick.
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Post by Firebeard on Jun 15, 2017 1:23:24 GMT -5
FirebeardI honestly can't believe people eat those things. No offense if you do lol. I've never had one and not gotten terribly sick. LOL There was a running joke, a play on words about McDonald's it was referred to as McChemicals lol Since then, McDonald's claims to be healther. But more than that, McDonald's also wants you to Work for them for Life and will put through their own recognized colleges and advance you in the company. McDonald's is a One-Stop Shoppe for employment ..
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Post by Russel on Jun 15, 2017 8:27:40 GMT -5
1) But the fact that it literally takes two years to acquire enough points for these three bots is absurd. 2) They don't forcefully pick 5 people at random, make you send it to all 5, and give you a minimal total reward for the 5, AND make you post to your wall for all your friends to see. (There's usually a separate task and bonus in other games for posting the game to your wall). 3) The most influential players in the game trying to tell Pixonic what's wrong with the game. They talked over people that were too bluntly honest, talked down ideas, and months later have not done a single thing to address any of the issues the players brought up. 1) It is absurd. I made 11K+ gold in a matter of 3 months, playing hardly 2 hours per day. So for half a year, I'd say, you can get all three of WW bots if you a casual player and don't speed up updates, skip dailies or buy paintjobs. 2) The are not. You can change people who you sent invite to. Just click at the photo. 3) I honestly don't like 60% of the ideas that players were suggesting. Especially ideas about "level-based hangars", "give us more gold" (might be paraphrasing here a little bit) and "make paintjobs cheaper" P.s. Introducing new currency is IMHO stupid. New prices are somewhat OK. But I would like for the "new" bots to be priced 14, 7 and 3.5 K for a month or two after release, and then be sold in usual store at 5, 2.5 and 1.25 K So if you CRAVE for new premium best bot at the first day - you pay extra. If not - just wait a little bit. Oh, and WW bots are NOT the most effective bots out there, and definitely not worth the price if you account only in-game performance. Though, it is good thing to buy only if you want to have some fun or bored with other bots. So, be smart, be like me. I think that hassling your friends with War Robots request is stupid, and I don't do that. I think that Butch is not worth it's price, and I don't intend to buy it. Problem solved! P.p.s and I told you already that Dredd tend to be a bit harsh in his communications, so I believe he's not holding any personal grudge against you.
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Post by Russel on Jun 15, 2017 8:31:47 GMT -5
My bad, it's 1.5m "players" per day, not 1.0m. Source. If1.5M people were playing every day, we wouldn't have matchmaking problems and Pixonic wouldn't have to merge Diamond to Champion in one league. I've got 7 friends who play\used to play War Robots. And for the most part they are in Bronze\Silver (save for me and another guy). So I think there are abundance of players in every league from Private all the way up to gold, but shortage of high-leveled players. I got some indirect proof of that - Pixx _MIGHT_ be dividing lower leagues more, and _MIGHT_ be consolidating higher leagues. war-robots-forum.freeforums.net/thread/9470/new-league-tiers-distributin
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Post by critter667 on Jun 15, 2017 8:50:35 GMT -5
Short version: may be you aren't the target demographic for influence points so tough luck.
My guess... The average age of posters in this topic far, far, far exceeds the targeted demographic for facebook/influence points. Yes, as an adult or college age person, maybe even late high school, you won't annoy your Facebook friends.
On the other hand.... 13, 14, 15... Young high school, no car, tons of Facebook friends, probably all flooding each other with invites to games, deals, etc. If they hook on or two, bonus for PIX. If those few but a Google play card or ask their parents to cover the extra, more money for PIX. All that for minimal effort... A few lines of code and a few graphics to represent the influence points. Seems like a win to me for PIX.
As for older folks, we either have the cash and just buy the gold to buy influemce points or don't and are screwed. Such is life. Don't blame PIX, they are just following business models put for my millions of games before them.
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Post by DIeGo100% on Jun 15, 2017 9:15:39 GMT -5
Let's analyze here. What can you get with influence points? Jesse: 3,500 IP Doc: 7,000 IP Butch: 14,000 IP Currently, how do you get influence points? There is literally only one way. Inviting five Facebook friends every single day in exchange for 15 influence points. On the rare occasion you invite someone that's actually new and they play for a couple hours, you get 600 influence points. Let's assume that won't happen for the following reason. Nobody in their right mind is going to link their real Facebook to War Robots AND send five invites AND share a post about it to their real Facebook every single day. So who will be the only people actually completing this task? People using fake Facebook profiles. And people that use a Facebook just for War Robots, who are their friends? Other War Robots players. So this whole thing isn't really exposing the game to anyone other than those who already play it. So there's no benefit to the game. Also, since you likely aren't actually inviting anyone new, you're stuck to 30 IP daily. This means it'll take 117 days, 234 days, and 468 days, respectively to get each bot. Or, to round it out, TWO YEARS to get all three. What is the other, more realistic outcome? People will exploit the system. The people that have multiple devices will create a bunch of different facebooks, and keep getting themselves 600IP over and over. It would take a skilled player maybe 30 minutes to reach level 5 from a new account. So in a few hours, they can get 3,000 points a day. But like many other aspects of the game, this feature ONLY BENEFITS EXPLOITERS. They need to make the benefits better, and make it so you don't have to share the post on your Facebook. And not have to invite FIVE DIFFERENT PEOPLE every damn day. /fin The opportunity is there , you take it or not... Is better to just being a 「female dog」 about it, IP is not stupid only requires time investment and patience , 1 hour a day is all i did to get my free doc and butch .
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Post by mijapi300 on Jun 15, 2017 9:35:28 GMT -5
Let's analyze here. What can you get with influence points? Jesse: 3,500 IP Doc: 7,000 IP Butch: 14,000 IP Currently, how do you get influence points? There is literally only one way. Inviting five Facebook friends every single day in exchange for 15 influence points. On the rare occasion you invite someone that's actually new and they play for a couple hours, you get 600 influence points. Let's assume that won't happen for the following reason. Nobody in their right mind is going to link their real Facebook to War Robots AND send five invites AND share a post about it to their real Facebook every single day. So who will be the only people actually completing this task? People using fake Facebook profiles. And people that use a Facebook just for War Robots, who are their friends? Other War Robots players. So this whole thing isn't really exposing the game to anyone other than those who already play it. So there's no benefit to the game. Also, since you likely aren't actually inviting anyone new, you're stuck to 30 IP daily. This means it'll take 117 days, 234 days, and 468 days, respectively to get each bot. Or, to round it out, TWO YEARS to get all three. What is the other, more realistic outcome? People will exploit the system. The people that have multiple devices will create a bunch of different facebooks, and keep getting themselves 600IP over and over. It would take a skilled player maybe 30 minutes to reach level 5 from a new account. So in a few hours, they can get 3,000 points a day. But like many other aspects of the game, this feature ONLY BENEFITS EXPLOITERS. They need to make the benefits better, and make it so you don't have to share the post on your Facebook. And not have to invite FIVE DIFFERENT PEOPLE every damn day. /fin The opportunity is there , you take it or not... Is better to just being a ?female dog? about it, IP is not stupid only requires time investment and patience , 1 hour a day is all i did to get my free doc and butch . 1 hour a day as in using different facebooks, creating and playing the new accounts yourself?
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Post by DIeGo100% on Jun 15, 2017 9:42:50 GMT -5
The opportunity is there , you take it or not... Is better to just being a ?female dog? about it, IP is not stupid only requires time investment and patience , 1 hour a day is all i did to get my free doc and butch . 1 hour a day as in using different facebooks, creating and playing the new accounts yourself? 1hour-1hour and a half, reach level 5 is pretty easy it takes 3-4 battles that last 3min or less cuz I was using the free bot I got . and 30 mins the day before creating accounts
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Post by mijapi300 on Jun 15, 2017 10:08:34 GMT -5
1 hour a day as in using different facebooks, creating and playing the new accounts yourself? 1hour-1hour and a half, reach level 5 is pretty easy it takes 3-4 battles that last 3min or less cuz I was using the free bot I got . and 30 mins the day before creating accounts So basically, you're an example of what I originally said is going to be the problem. People aren't going to invite real people. They're going to create fake accounts to exploit the system. That doesn't benefit the game. Hence my opinion of the IP system as it was implemented being stupid.
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Post by DIeGo100% on Jun 15, 2017 12:41:54 GMT -5
1hour-1hour and a half, reach level 5 is pretty easy it takes 3-4 battles that last 3min or less cuz I was using the free bot I got . and 30 mins the day before creating accounts So basically, you're an example of what I originally said is going to be the problem. People aren't going to invite real people. They're going to create fake accounts to exploit the system. That doesn't benefit the game. Hence my opinion of the IP system as it was implemented being stupid. I just got a question, if the IP system is so stupid why do you care so much?
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Post by mijapi300 on Jun 15, 2017 12:43:30 GMT -5
So basically, you're an example of what I originally said is going to be the problem. People aren't going to invite real people. They're going to create fake accounts to exploit the system. That doesn't benefit the game. Hence my opinion of the IP system as it was implemented being stupid. I just got a question, if the IP system is so stupid why do you care so much? This is a forum for discussion about the game we love to play. I felt like discussion an issue I see. That doesn't mean I "care so much". It means I felt like discussion it on a forum that's here for us to do just that.
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Post by DIeGo100% on Jun 15, 2017 12:48:33 GMT -5
I just got a question, if the IP system is so stupid why do you care so much? This is a forum for discussion about the game we love to play. I felt like discussion an issue I see. That doesn't mean I "care so much". It means I felt like discussion it on a forum that's here for us to do just that. That's a cliche everyone use that to cover the real feeling, reading your post you took the time to do math about IP, you used capital letters just to make a strong message , I just want to know the real deal behind it, you want the wild bunch but no for IP currency? You hate the exploiters? You mad with pixonic ways?
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Post by mijapi300 on Jun 15, 2017 13:20:36 GMT -5
This is a forum for discussion about the game we love to play. I felt like discussion an issue I see. That doesn't mean I "care so much". It means I felt like discussion it on a forum that's here for us to do just that. That's a cliche everyone use that to cover the real feeling, reading your post you took the time to do math about IP, you used capital letters just to make a strong message , I just want to know the real deal behind it, you want the wild bunch but no for IP currency? You hate the exploiters? You mad with pixonic ways? I don't like bad business model, and my opinion is that the IP system as it was implemented is bad business. If you've seen how I generally write, I usually provide a lot of detail in my comments. I plan on simply not buying the WW bots. One thing ive always praised Pixonic on is that the game is very well balanced and is not P2W even in the slightest. So I have the opportunity to simply not buy them without worrying about falling behind. My posts about the IP are just my opinion, that the IP is a broken system right now. It's a good general idea, just not in the way they've done it.
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Post by seanh on Jun 15, 2017 13:26:04 GMT -5
Reading this is like when you out for something to eat and your married friends are having a domestic in the restaurant. So my better judgement is screaming ‘don’t get involved’, but sure having a slow day at the grind so I’ll give a few thoughts.
Firstly everyone who has posted has a valid point of view, different but equally valid, but I was trying to think about it from Pixonic’s point of view and then my own as a revenue generating unit (customer).
Firstly who are Pixonic and do they know what they are doing? Well I’m not going to dissect their corporate CV, but it is enough to know that they have developed a very successful game which has us all hooked and emotive enough to be squabbling on forums, it has whatever number of million users and I would same by any reasonable measure is a huge success. So the only reasonable assumption is that they know exactly what they are doing. We may not know what they are doing however and therein lies some of the frustration, but you have to acknowledge they are good at what they do and have most of us tapping to their beat. Assuming they have made a mistake is simply not giving them enough credit. (unless one or you happen to be the CEO of a hugely successful game developer, then I will obviously bow to your better judgement).
So what are they trying to do here? Two options really, trying to get revenue or trying to get new users (perhaps a bit of both). I would think it very unlikely that they expect to have many direct sales of these influence bots. They have made something that is not really meta and priced it prohibitively (made something that is not game changing and made it way too expensive to buy direct). Sure, some people will flash the proverbial credit cards, but the numbers doing that will be very small and I would think it unlikely that this is pix’s real target.
The other element on the revenue side is actually a little more subtle. I am new to the game and the boards, but what I have figured out is that while Au is how harder to get many of the longer standing / better players are sitting on stock piles. This might be an indirect way of turning some of these players back into revenue generating units, getting them to splurge some of the stock pile, so they might actually have to spend real money down the road on the next thing they want. While I think this is a more likely objective than direct sales its clearly still not the primary goal.
Even as the name of the currency suggests this is all about getting new users. Many more millions of downloads, a longer term pipeline of new payers. So what is the current ask? For a wild west bot I would have to find between 6 and 23 people who I could get to give the game a proper go. For every 200 of my facebook friends I decide to spam I reduce that number by 1. If I win a video upload comp, deadly, 4 less converts needed. Is that reasonable?
I certainly don’t think its unreasonable, I don’t really use facetube at all but I could certainly get 6, get myself a Jessie, not sure about butch, definitely won’t be getting a full set or filling a hanger with them. But I know plenty people who would and could if they really wanted to.
Can the system be gamed? yeah, but at no loss to pix’s, whoever is gaming it was probably never going to do it legitimately anyway. Will the prices change going forward? It depends, if this works then no, in fact you will more items coming on line for the currency, success breeds success and all that. If it doesn’t work for them they will have to lower the bar.
Is it fair? Well that’s a relative concept and comes down to what resources you have / don’t have. If you have friend you can ‘influence’ (sorry), or a stock pile of Au, then maybe. If you have neither then not so much. But then if you don’t have the resource it’s a luxury item, you don’t need it to play or get on in the game, its in the nice to have.
Anyway, apologies for the long post, I kind of just got carried away.
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Post by mijapi300 on Jun 15, 2017 13:47:09 GMT -5
seanhI'm not stranger to long posts, so no harm done to me haha. That was a very good read with some insightful points. The only thing I'd have to point out, which may be nitpicking, is that the current Pixonic did not develop this game. Pixonic was sold in November, and was already very successful at that point. I joined the game around that time, so I can't say - but I've seen a lot of sentiment around the boards that the new ownership has been alienating the long-term player base. That's not to say they're actually doing a bad job. For all we know, the decisions that have alienated a few thousand could have brought a million new players. All we can do is speculate and form opinions.
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Post by seanh on Jun 15, 2017 14:39:41 GMT -5
seanh I'm not stranger to long posts, so no harm done to me haha. That was a very good read with some insightful points. The only thing I'd have to point out, which may be nitpicking, is that the current Pixonic did not develop this game. Pixonic was sold in November, and was already very successful at that point. I joined the game around that time, so I can't say - but I've seen a lot of sentiment around the boards that the new ownership has been alienating the long-term player base. That's not to say they're actually doing a bad job. For all we know, the decisions that have alienated a few thousand could have brought a million new players. All we can do is speculate and form opinions. It's a fair point, I don't know the history to it. I would still be inclined to think that they have a fair idea what they are doing. There may well be an element or trade off between long standing and new customers. It's hard to keep every segment happy while trying to grow and not everyone is on board with change, there is balance, hopefully they get it right.
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Post by billwillson on Jul 25, 2017 4:20:59 GMT -5
It's unfortunate OP couldnt have a discussion about this without a smug moderator hounding him and people posting without reading.
I got the impression that influence points were only supposed to be for people who put the time into publicising the game, and the high au to IP price was to keep it exclusive to them. You'd think the majority of people who both play mobile games and watch videos of them on YouTube would also have a Facebook. A youtuber JoergSprave(?) had a download link for his viewers to download and sign up for the game, I image he got many many IP from that. If this is true though, I'd have thought they would add a description about it in game to encourage people to participate.
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