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Post by Ron Gaul on Jun 2, 2017 14:37:07 GMT -5
I present to you a Matchmaker that would be impossible to abuse.
Matchmaker has 6 basic levels: rookie, copper, bronze, silver, gold, platinum. Matchmaking algorithm operates off of the highest robot or weapon in a players hanger. This will encourage players to upgrade their hanger equally. If a player has five L1 mechs with all L3 weapons, he will be matched in Bronze tier due to five slots. If that player adds one L6 weapon or mech, he will be bumped to Silver tier, even with only L1 mechs. And so on up the ladder. This completely eliminates clubbing; no bot will ever be able to use L8 gear below Gold tier. Premium equipment inflicts 1-level penalty; an L6 premium or weapon would have the same MM effect as an L7 Ag bot or weapon.
Rookie: bots must be no higher than L3, likewise with weapons. No premium equipment, maximum 3 hangar slots.
Copper: bots and weapons L4 to L5, no premium equipment, maximum 4 hangar slots. 5% increased rewards over Rookie tier.
Bronze: equipment L1 to L5, all equipment allowed. 6% increased rewards over Copper tier.
Silver: equipment L1 to L7, all equipment allowed. 7% increased rewards over Bronze tier.
Gold: equipment L1 to L9, all equipment allowed. 8% increased rewards over Silver tier.
Platinum: equipment L1 to L12, all equipment allowed. 10% increased rewards over Gold tier.
Thus, a player earning 100k Ag in Rookie would earn the following for the same score in each league:
Rookie: 100k
Copper: 105k
Bronze: 111.3k
Silver: 119k
Gold: 128k
Platinum: 141k
Revised premium equipment limitations:
Au bots:
Heavy: restricted to gold tier and above. Thus, an L3 Lance or Fury would never be able to enter Bronze or even Silver tier. Thus no clubbing.
Medium and light: restricted to silver tier and above. You'd see Galahad and Gareth, and Rogatka, in Silver tier in large numbers. But they'd receive a 1-level penalty, so a single L6 Gareth would bump you into Gold tier.
Au weapons: no special restrictions. The Orkan starts at L5, placing it immediately in Bronze tier; with the rocket meta in its current condition, the Piñata, Pin, and Tulumbas are fairly similar to the Orkan, sufficient to prevent the Orkan being overpowered. In fact all Au weapons would be unable to enter Copper tier, since they start at L5.
WSP bots:
Given that the current WSP bots are slightly less powerful in general than their Au counterparts, WSP equipment is restricted to Bronze league and above. 1-level penalty.
WSP weapons: 1-level penalty. Otherwise no special restrictions.
Au rewards remain as-is.
3 additional special leagues, accessible to L30 players:
Gunfighters league: hangers consisting of only gunfighting mechs (equipped with Kang, Nashorn, Thunder, Punisher/Mk2, Molot/Mk2, Ancile), L1 to L12. Rewards equivalent with Gold tier.
Infinity league: hangars consisting of only plasma mechs (equipped with Treb, Zeus, Gekko, Taran, Magnum, Thunder), L1-12. Rewards equivalent with Platinum tier.
Sniper league: hangars consisting of only snipers (equipped with Treb, Kang, Nash, Gekko, Ancile), L6-12. Rewards equivalent with Gold tier.
Open to suggestions and thoughts. Under this model, maxed players could not simply equip L1 gear and blitz rookie or Copper tiers; their 5-bot hangars would prevent them.
I don't believe a simpler, more balanced concept exists.
Anyway. Thoughts?
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Post by zer00eyz on Jun 2, 2017 14:49:47 GMT -5
This is a free to play game.
If you create a spot that people can pause at and "win" more than loose, then you have failed in designing your system.
There can be only ONE end game, ONE meta, or you can have parallel ones, but you can't have points for people to rest on the path to the end.
If you do, no one will ever pay, the servers will get turned off, and then what are we going to play.
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Post by Ron Gaul on Jun 2, 2017 15:03:26 GMT -5
This is a free to play game. If you create a spot that people can pause at and "win" more than loose, then you have failed in designing your system. There can be only ONE end game, ONE meta, or you can have parallel ones, but you can't have points for people to rest on the path to the end. If you do, no one will ever pay, the servers will get turned off, and then what are we going to play. Hmm. Let's follow your argument to its climax: suppose everyone does reach L12, in the end? And then there's nothing left to go for...so then what? You get bored and stop playing, because there's nothing left to accomplish. Your argument is flawed in its core premise, which is that everyone will stop unless they HAVE to keep going. No; under this matchmaker, a player is perfectly free to stop wherever they like. But they'll only receive greater rewards if they go all the way. This matchmaker doesn't encourage one-tier play or even low-tier play, in fact it does the opposite. This matchmaker encourages players to master EVERY tier, with all bots at all levels. Because, then they can do what they want at any level. Rather than just pushing for the top, this concept encourages advancing and mastering the entire game. You'll make more money when you get people to spend money not because they have to, but because you've convinced them they want to. In this game I spend money on paint jobs and for stuff I want, not stuff I need. I spend money because I WANT to, but danged if I'll spend one cent if it's a requirement in order to advance. In fact people spend more money on something if they have the freedom NOT to! |
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Post by critter667 on Jun 2, 2017 15:28:10 GMT -5
Don't Griffins and Leos start at level 6?
Couldn't I just abuse your system by purchasing 5 heavy premium bots, leveling them to 4 and stomping all newer players who are trying to rise up the ranks? The new players can't match me unless they spend gold as any heavy starts at level 6.
In the least, you would have to remove the starting level on bots and weapons and possibly eliminate the level restrictions on the heavier bots.
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Post by zer00eyz on Jun 2, 2017 15:29:22 GMT -5
This is a free to play game. If you create a spot that people can pause at and "win" more than loose, then you have failed in designing your system. There can be only ONE end game, ONE meta, or you can have parallel ones, but you can't have points for people to rest on the path to the end. If you do, no one will ever pay, the servers will get turned off, and then what are we going to play. Hmm. Let's follow your argument to its climax: suppose everyone does reach L12, in the end? And then there's nothing left to go for...so then what? You get bored and stop playing, because there's nothing left to accomplish. Your argument is flawed in its core premise, which is that everyone will stop unless they HAVE to keep going. No; under this matchmaker, a player is perfectly free to stop wherever they like. But they'll only receive greater rewards if they go all the way. This matchmaker doesn't encourage one-tier play or even low-tier play, in fact it does the opposite. This matchmaker encourages players to master EVERY tier, with all bots at all levels. Because, then they can do what they want at any level. Rather than just pushing for the top, this concept encourages advancing and mastering the entire game. You'll make more money when you get people to spend money not because they have to, but because you've convinced them they want to. In this game I spend money on paint jobs and for stuff I want, not stuff I need. I spend money because I WANT to, but danged if I'll spend one cent if it's a requirement in order to advance. In fact people spend more money on something if they have the freedom NOT to! "Your argument is flawed in its core premise, which is that everyone will stop unless they HAVE to keep going.No; under this matchmaker, a player is perfectly free to stop wherever they like. But they'll only receive greater rewards if they go all the way." Uhhh ... "Au rewards remain as-is." The reward that players covet is gold: you can trade it for slots, bots, weapons and even TIME (elapsed time on upgrades). Your system is still handing that out like candy on halloween. Your creating places for the players to "rest" on a level playing field and grind for those advantages. Getting beaten by better bots, Be they higher leveled gear, or geppard clubbing is a motivator for a sale somewhere in the system. By spreading it out to more places and locations, by creating mismatches your driving people to UPGRADE and some to SPEND. "You'll make more money when you get people to spend money not because they have to, but because you've convinced them they want to." Right, you don't beat them up every game... only some of them, you let a few clubbers continue to do their thing because power by example is much better than any sales pitch. You get that most of the FTP games are following the same formula for a reason... IT WORKS! "In fact people spend more money on something if they have the freedom NOT to!" No, people ride "free" as long as they can. There are tons of industries that prove this out. As an example, in LA the hotel workers union has its own dentist for union members. For a long time it was "free", but people blew off appointments, now it costs 10$ a visit, and people keep the majority of their appointments. Free, and freedom is not an incentive to pay, people don't work that way and the industry has tried it time and time again. You should be grateful that they haven't gone "pay to win". |
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Post by Ron Gaul on Jun 2, 2017 16:08:04 GMT -5
Hmm. A lot of people like to point out what's wrong with a system while not bothering to suggest something to remedy the issue they've found.
Zero, in retail, people tend to spend more money if they have the idea that they're spending because they want to, not have to. People spend money because they need something, more to get what they want, and if they can afford it they spend a lot of money to get what they desire. In this game, people don't "need" the game. They play because they want to. So the goal becomes, get people to WANT to spend money. Give them a very good reason to...but don't force it!!! No better way to break a sale than try to snatch every last penny - the wallet instantly closes and your sale walks out the door.
Again, in a game like this you have to target the WANT, not the need.
Critter, that could be worked around by simple limitations, such as Gareth cannot go below Silver and Galahad and Lancelot are an instant trip to Gold.
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Post by jckidd on Jun 2, 2017 16:28:19 GMT -5
I posted on this awhile ago. New matchmaker idea thread. Couldn't figure out how to get it on here tho
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Post by ΒΣRΖΣRKΛ²³ on Jun 2, 2017 16:31:43 GMT -5
Hmm. A lot of people like to point out what's wrong with a system while not bothering to suggest something to remedy the issue they've found. Zero, in retail, people tend to spend more money if they have the idea that they're spending because they want to, not have to. People spend money because they need something, more to get what they want, and if they can afford it they spend a lot of money to get what they desire. In this game, people don't "need" the game. They play because they want to. So the goal becomes, get people to WANT to spend money. Give them a very good reason to...but don't force it!!! No better way to break a sale than try to snatch every last penny - the wallet instantly closes and your sale walks out the door. Again, in a game like this you have to target the WANT, not the need. Critter, that could be worked around by simple limitations, such as Gareth cannot go below Silver and Galahad and Lancelot are an instant trip to Gold. How do you know? You make a lot of assumptions..people want this peaople act like that..how do you know? Do you have proof? Don't say it's because you don't like it that way, when this is actually the way it works. And this game DOES work. You can play as long as you want, you actually can archived anything in the game for free. MM works. It does not work the way YOU want, but it does work. |
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Post by make7upyours on Jun 2, 2017 16:34:21 GMT -5
Let me point out the key flaw here. People that put money into the game to power up, want to have an advantage over others. So if you take away their ability to abuse lower players, you take away the reason for them to spend money.
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Post by ΒΣRΖΣRKΛ²³ on Jun 2, 2017 16:39:45 GMT -5
I bought 2500au during the event so I could spin some chests. I wanted the gear To abuse the diamond tier players to get into expert!!
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Post by make7upyours on Jun 2, 2017 16:42:59 GMT -5
This is a free to play game. If you create a spot that people can pause at and "win" more than loose, then you have failed in designing your system. There can be only ONE end game, ONE meta, or you can have parallel ones, but you can't have points for people to rest on the path to the end. If you do, no one will ever pay, the servers will get turned off, and then what are we going to play. Mostly agree, but I think you can have more than one. Examples: Hearthstone and Clash Royale HS 1. Casual 2. Ranked 3. Arena - Draft a deck 4. Tavern Brawl - Fun rules casual game. Rules change every week. 5. Friendly battle - Just going to list this because War Robots lacks this feature. CR 1. Ladder 2. Tournament - The dev's answer to people complaining about the game being unfair and unfair match-ups. Here you have level caps. 3. Challenges - Basically replaced Tournament as the way to play casually. Level caps at 9/7/4/1 so everything is much more fair. 4. Friendly battle - Just going to list this because War Robots lacks this feature. For HS, each play mode kind of has it's own meta. Arena is a draft game, but there's still somewhat a meta of type of cards people pick. Same for CR. There's a meta for ladder and there's a meta for tournament mode because level caps exist. meta on ladder is basically to abuse card levels as much as you can; that's the only reason certain cards don't work well in tournament mode. Because they need to be over-leveled to be good. To end, I feel War Robots could use a casual mode. Maybe a deathwatch or something. Just a mode I can log on and play casually without worrying about being punished for trying fun new things or for leaving the game early. |
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Post by zer00eyz on Jun 2, 2017 16:52:32 GMT -5
This is a free to play game. If you create a spot that people can pause at and "win" more than loose, then you have failed in designing your system. There can be only ONE end game, ONE meta, or you can have parallel ones, but you can't have points for people to rest on the path to the end. If you do, no one will ever pay, the servers will get turned off, and then what are we going to play. Mostly agree, but I think you can have more than one. Examples: Hearthstone and Clash Royale HS 1. Casual 2. Ranked 3. Arena - Draft a deck 4. Tavern Brawl - Fun rules casual game. Rules change every week. 5. Friendly battle - Just going to list this because War Robots lacks this feature. CR 1. Ladder 2. Tournament - The dev's answer to people complaining about the game being unfair and unfair match-ups. Here you have level caps. 3. Challenges - Basically replaced Tournament as the way to play casually. Level caps at 9/7/4/1 so everything is much more fair. 4. Friendly battle - Just going to list this because War Robots lacks this feature. For HS, each play mode kind of has it's own meta. Arena is a draft game, but there's still somewhat a meta of type of cards people pick. Same for CR. There's a meta for ladder and there's a meta for tournament mode because level caps exist. meta on ladder is basically to abuse card levels as much as you can; that's the only reason certain cards don't work well in tournament mode. Because they need to be over-leveled to be good. To end, I feel War Robots could use a casual mode. Maybe a deathwatch or something. Just a mode I can log on and play casually without worrying about being punished for trying fun new things or for leaving the game early. Great examples of parallel paths... Pix could roll Light, Light/medium and unlimited (light/medium/heavy) out and no one would think twice... all those useless bots would suddenly have a home... |
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Post by ewing411 on Jun 2, 2017 17:36:28 GMT -5
<snip> You'll make more money when you get people to spend money not because they have to, but because you've convinced them they want to. In this game I spend money on paint jobs and for stuff I want, not stuff I need. I spend money because I WANT to, but danged if I'll spend one cent if it's a requirement in order to advance. <snip> <snip> You should be grateful that they haven't gone "pay to win". The game arguably went pay-to-win with the release of the Brit Bots. If the Dash Bots go the same rout we can safely say Pix is doing bad game development on purpose. I've often wondered if the various high stress designs of matchmaking since march was an attempt to force spending or innocent mistakes. Kind of like how ignoring Seal Clubbing for so long raised questions to Pixonic's motives. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2017 18:41:00 GMT -5
then I will stick five l3 lancelots, whatever, the meta.
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Post by Ron Gaul on Jun 2, 2017 19:10:31 GMT -5
Hmm. A lot of people like to point out what's wrong with a system while not bothering to suggest something to remedy the issue they've found. Zero, in retail, people tend to spend more money if they have the idea that they're spending because they want to, not have to. People spend money because they need something, more to get what they want, and if they can afford it they spend a lot of money to get what they desire. In this game, people don't "need" the game. They play because they want to. So the goal becomes, get people to WANT to spend money. Give them a very good reason to...but don't force it!!! No better way to break a sale than try to snatch every last penny - the wallet instantly closes and your sale walks out the door. Again, in a game like this you have to target the WANT, not the need. Critter, that could be worked around by simple limitations, such as Gareth cannot go below Silver and Galahad and Lancelot are an instant trip to Gold. How do you know? You make a lot of assumptions..people want this peaople act like that..how do you know? Do you have proof? Don't say it's because you don't like it that way, when this is actually the way it works. And this game DOES work. You can play as long as you want, you actually can archived anything in the game for free. MM works. It does not work the way YOU want, but it does work. People act predictably. Studying human nature will show you that, as much as people would like to think that they are original and spontaneous, the reality is that people tend to follow fairly predictable behaviors. Yes, I do make assumptions. They are based on what I observe in human nature. You, sir, have also made an assumption; you have made the assumption that I am automatically wrong, because I do not have what you consider to be irrefutable proof. So now, I ask you: why do you say the matchmaker works? Kindly provide the observations and facts you use to make that statement. |
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Post by ΒΣRΖΣRKΛ²³ on Jun 3, 2017 0:12:30 GMT -5
You, sir, have also made an assumption; you have made the assumption that I am automatically wrong, because I do not have what you consider to be irrefutable proof. So now, I ask you: why do you say the matchmaker works? Kindly provide the observations and facts you use to make that statement. Guess I sounded a bit harsh. No offense really, pixonix didn't invent this kind of mm. |
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Post by FlashAhAhh on Jun 3, 2017 0:47:14 GMT -5
Nooooo. People will max out in a tier and stay there. Then you are started in that tier if you have even 1 weapon or bot at the required level.
That means that EVERY level will be you getting seal clubbed until you level up closer to max.
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Post by Ron Gaul on Jun 3, 2017 1:38:24 GMT -5
Nooooo. People will max out in a tier and stay there. Then you are started in that tier if you have even 1 weapon or bot at the required level. That means that EVERY level will be you getting seal clubbed until you level up closer to max. Not exactly. In fact not remotely. It's more than possible to face off against L10 mechs in L8 gear, and in the lower tiers there's even less difference between levels. You'll lose more often than not at first, probably, but you won't be hopelessly, laughably outmatched as you would running that same L8 gear against L12's. So what would happen is, yes, you would see tier-maxed hangars. But they wouldn't be unbeatable, even for a player who only has one weapon or bot leveled to fight in that tier. What would that encourage? Well, playing more! Play more, accumulate Ag, upgrade your gear, become competetive in your tier, and then when you're maxed in your tier, you can finally start to either upgrade more hangars or begin to press on into higher tiers for increased rewards. That's the normal progression this game used to follow, actually. That was the progression I followed when I started. That was the progression the Wiki - and later this forum - used to teach. Level up, bringing a full hangar up gradually. The endgame wasn't always Top Tier, either. More often than not, players chose to stay in Gold or Silver tier for the varied competition. In top tier you usually only see the most powerful mechs and weapons for that meta; powerful but boring, because everyone's hangar is the same. In a way, unless this game changes so that more bots are viable in the upper levels, it's actually better for the game if people don't max out. Because the game is at its most interesting when it's at its most versatile, and the upper levels are not versatile. And every player who plays in Silver or Gold tier, it's always in the back of their mind that should they ever get bored where they're at now, there's always a higher tier with a tougher challenge. Hence the additional special leagues I suggested. Leagues like those would be interesting and fun, just because they'd be duels like no other tier in the game. Sniper league might be boring at times, though it'd be very strategic, but Gunfighter league would be insane. I also would like to see a 1v1 Last Man Standing duel mode added at some point. Five bots apiece, random map, fight until only one player stands. |
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Post by Ron Gaul on Jun 3, 2017 1:39:02 GMT -5
You, sir, have also made an assumption; you have made the assumption that I am automatically wrong, because I do not have what you consider to be irrefutable proof. So now, I ask you: why do you say the matchmaker works? Kindly provide the observations and facts you use to make that statement. Guess I sounded a bit harsh. No offense really, pixonix didn't invent this kind of mm. None taken, compadre.  OP has been edited with revised adjustments for premium gear. Should effectively account for the issues raised. |
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dilwale
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Post by dilwale on Jun 3, 2017 9:43:04 GMT -5
Pixo should think about while matchmaking is any player have two sniper bot or two missiles bots they should match them with similar players. Now many will say learn to play...blah blah...no offence but i have been adapting bit its killing fun out of game. Yesterday on my side 5 players were snipers/full missiles bot and I was the only brawler. They did not help me or team at all and we ended loosing side. That was height of bad matchmaking. I was the first one to out of the match . They just sit and hide. I understand there should be variety of bots and weapons of choice but there should be proper matchmaking. If have more than one sniper/full missile bot you should be with similar players.
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