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Post by ΜØØSE on May 20, 2017 16:50:26 GMT -5
Revelation 1: I crossed a threshold this week - I came to a point where I am no longer interested in upgrading my weapons or robots. I have a huge variety of them, I switch them around for fun, and it makes for more interesting matches when I do so. However, there is no point in upgrading them. All it does is match me up against more powerful weapons as my league standing rises. What good is it to spend days and weeks upgrading a loadout, only to have it place me against similar loadouts? The whole process is self-negating. It adds nothing positive to the match experience. If anything, it adds occasional frustration when matched against players with much more developed hangars... Let alone deliberate tankers and clubbers.
Revelation 2: I got on the test server today, and holy 「dookie」, it was fun. Refreshingly fun. Enough I had to ask myself why.
It was two things: One, there was a huge variety of additional loadouts to be excited about. Two, ALL BOTS AND WEAPONS WERE THE SAME LEVEL - 8.
This automatically balanced the game. There was no wondering if that Lancelot's Orkans were level 7 or 12. I knew if I made good decisions on the battlefield I could expect desired results, not random outcomes. What I did mattered.
Revelation 3: New weapons and bots, not upgraded weapons and bots, make the game exciting and progressive. I can't wait for these new weapons and bots to come out. It's fun to experiment, even more fun to use them to innovate new tactics.
So, how should War Robots change?
1. Get rid of weapon and bot levels. Make it so player skill matters more. 2. Get rid of the current MM process. 3. Expand the current system where weapons and bots are available as you progress. It could be by in-game achievements or leveling up, or both. 4. Adjust the MM to be based on weapon and bot *availability*. That would take care of clubbing. New players wouldn't be seeing tridents, or ancilots, because they aren't available to the yet. 5. Keep making new weapons and bots.
Pixonic can still make money - things can still cost gold. And I don't think Pixonic makes a lot of money off what players spend to upgrade - silver. That is mostly accrued through playing.
What do you think?
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Post by War Child on May 20, 2017 17:13:29 GMT -5
Ummm...you know upgrades past lvl 9/10 would eat up more silver than you can earn right?
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Post by Thunderkiss on May 20, 2017 17:22:32 GMT -5
Ummm...you know upgrades past lvl 9/10 would eat up more silver than you can earn right? Ummm...you know that that's the point right? I mean it's inaccurate to state because you certainly CAN earn more silver than you spend, but moreover, silver is the real gold in this game, and No one buys it because it's a foolish investment.
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Post by FRΞΞDØM☆F1GHTΞR on May 20, 2017 17:23:26 GMT -5
Yeah, test server is fun.
If you don't want to upgrade and climb the ranks, then don't. Nobody is forcing you.
Upgrading is a major part of this game, so I doubt they'll ever do away with it.
People do pay for silver. I'm currently running premium so I can keep my silver income ahead of my upgrade times. Currently going from 10 to 11. I don't even want to think about the level 12 upgrade costs...
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Post by War Child on May 20, 2017 17:23:42 GMT -5
Ummm...you know upgrades past lvl 9/10 would eat up more silver than you can earn right? Ummm...you know that that's the point right? I mean it's inaccurate to state because you certainly CAN earn more silver than you spend, but moreover, silver is the real gold in this game, and No one buys it because it's a foolish investment. One word Premium Edit:you type faster than me. XD
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Post by Thunderkiss on May 20, 2017 17:24:49 GMT -5
4 words.
You Missed The Point
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Post by Thunderkiss on May 20, 2017 17:25:58 GMT -5
Yeah, test server is fun. If you don't want to upgrade and climb the ranks, then don't. Nobody is forcing you. Upgrading is a major part of this game, so I doubt they'll ever do away with it. People do pay for silver. I'm currently running premium so I can keep my silver income ahead of my upgrade times. Currently going from 10 to 11. I don't even want to think about the level 12 upgrade costs... Yeah bro, the pain is real from 11 to 12.
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sethile
GI. Patton
Posts: 126
Karma: 54
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Post by sethile on May 20, 2017 18:40:34 GMT -5
Try the LQ. The randomness makes it fun IMHO.
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Post by ΜØØSE on May 20, 2017 19:04:15 GMT -5
Try the LQ. The randomness makes it fun IMHO. I'm not looking for random matchups. I'm looking for balance.
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sethile
GI. Patton
Posts: 126
Karma: 54
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Post by sethile on May 20, 2017 19:37:08 GMT -5
Try the LQ. The randomness makes it fun IMHO. I'm not looking for random matchups. I'm looking for balance. You got balance. You starting winning, you went up in the League... you then plateaued out... sounds like balance to me...
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Post by hi5 on May 20, 2017 19:41:54 GMT -5
I agree removing weapon and bot levels would be great, however it's not aligned to the current War Robots monetization model. I bet a significant part of their revenue is from premium purchases (events are probably the biggest). "The Grind" makes them too much money to eliminate.
I would actually be willing to pay a fair amount for this War Robots game as a non-freemium model app to avoid grinding and rev-generating tactics design to frustrate (currently have not spent any RM). But mobile has the largest potential user base and freemium is the most lucrative model for mobile games so it's unlikely to happen.
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psychoticwolf13
GI. Patton
When you hear my howl, you know there's no escape
Posts: 139
Karma: 26
Pilot name: Psychotic_Wolf13
Platform: iOS
Clan: The Wolf Clan
League: Expert
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Bulwark, Lancelot, Mercury
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Post by psychoticwolf13 on May 20, 2017 20:17:24 GMT -5
I see what you are saying in a sense. It would make it so that the game would be more balanced. However, it would make the game fade out quickly. With nothing to upgrade, people will not feel as if there is any goal to the game.
To make sure that you know that I understand your pain, I suggest a new MM system: All your weapon levels would be added up and be divided by the number of weapon slots. All your bot levels are added, doubled, then added to your weapon score. This would be your loadout score.
Your skill score would be from +15 to -15. The skill score determines the range of your opponents.
For example: if you are bad, you would have a low score (such as -15). That means that, on average, other players would have 15 less loadout score than you.
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Post by tectonic on May 20, 2017 20:23:50 GMT -5
I have actually stopped upgrading any weapon past lv 7 but I keep pushing my bots levels higher for similar reasons as the op. My only exception is sniper weapons. Higher damage output is a fools errand. Stronger, faster bots that can out last opponents in fire exchanges is much more enjoyable of a game to me.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Karma:
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2017 20:28:29 GMT -5
Hangar based game = hangar based MM Skill based game = skill based MM
Unfortunately War Robots is a game heavily based on your hangar and its levels. Either get rid of the MM and put the old one back or set everything to a similar level. I like that idea.
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psychoticwolf13
GI. Patton
When you hear my howl, you know there's no escape
Posts: 139
Karma: 26
Pilot name: Psychotic_Wolf13
Platform: iOS
Clan: The Wolf Clan
League: Expert
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Bulwark, Lancelot, Mercury
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Post by psychoticwolf13 on May 20, 2017 20:37:48 GMT -5
Hangar based game = hangar based MM Skill based game = skill based MM Unfortunately War Robots is a game heavily based on your hangar and its levels. Either get rid of the MM and put the old one back or set everything to a similar level. I like that idea. What i am saying is to combine them to make an accurate, fair, nearly impossible to tank system.
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Post by Cdr. Crimmins on May 20, 2017 22:29:04 GMT -5
I see what you are saying in a sense. It would make it so that the game would be more balanced. However, it would make the game fade out quickly. With nothing to upgrade, people will not feel as if there is any goal to the game. To make sure that you know that I understand your pain, I suggest a new MM system: All your weapon levels would be added up and be divided by the number of weapon slots. All your bot levels are added, doubled, then added to your weapon score. This would be your loadout score. Your skill score would be from +15 to -15. The skill score determines the range of your opponents. For example: if you are bad, you would have a low score (such as -15). That means that, on average, other players would have 15 less loadout score than you. Have you done the math on what a hangar with 4 L1 weaponless pattons and a 5/12 taran ancilot would be? weapon score is 36 / 19 = 1.89 bot score is 9*2 = 18 total score = 20, rounding up meanwhile a 3 slot hangar with stock L3 Golem, vityaz and Boa would equal (14/8)+18=20 rounding up i like the intention but I believe it would be problematic in practice.
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Post by 0ppressor on May 20, 2017 22:35:09 GMT -5
Get everything to level 12. Now, just like the test server, you are either equal in level to everyone else, or above at their own fault.
Run whatever you want then?
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Post by Cdr. Crimmins on May 20, 2017 23:57:13 GMT -5
Deep down in the leagues, that's where everything is viable. Because less viable bots can be a bit overleveled compared to the op bots. Same for weapons.
At the top, there's no room for imperfection. Only the beautiful get deployed.
No thank you.
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Post by Pulse Hadron on May 21, 2017 0:10:27 GMT -5
I'm like tectonic, leveling weapons to just 7 but bots 9 or more. This lets me experiment with fun builds and play my hardest while staying in iOS gold 1 where there's a good amount of variety. Though at certain times of the day it feels like diamond 1 again with a glut of britbots.
Varied levels is part of the challenge, that guesswork and strategizing about what I can take on, don't think it should be removed. But when I see all level 11 weapons in gold 1 it's no fun. Maybe keep hangars with very different weapon averages apart. Sometimes I see players with mostly level 6s but a few 11s or 12s. They're fun to fight but not a nearly maxed hangar.
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Post by nocluevok on May 21, 2017 1:21:47 GMT -5
Yeah, test server is fun. If you don't want to upgrade and climb the ranks, then don't. Nobody is forcing you. Upgrading is a major part of this game, so I doubt they'll ever do away with it. People do pay for silver. I'm currently running premium so I can keep my silver income ahead of my upgrade times. Currently going from 10 to 11. I don't even want to think about the level 12 upgrade costs... LOL. It's only 31 million for an orkan from 11 to 12.
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Post by ᴛʜᴇ ʙɪɢ ᴅʀᴏᴘ on May 21, 2017 8:08:10 GMT -5
I get it! Totally see where your coming from... A new game mode!
it would resemble what the test-server is except maybe a trade-off in the fact that you must own a weapon to use it and perhaps there are diminished rewards--or no rewards at all and the matches results dont affect your statistics or count toward your league or activity.
A game mode such as this should certainly exist.
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phoenix232
GI. Patton
Posts: 132
Karma: 74
Pilot name: Phoenix-232
League: Diamond
Server Region: North America
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Post by phoenix232 on May 21, 2017 8:46:47 GMT -5
If you don't want to upgrade and climb the ranks, then don't. Nobody is forcing you. The game is forcing you. By constantly placing you against players with higher level weaponry, it gimps your performance and your enjoyment. Nobody likes being +/-2(or more) weapon and bot levels behind their opponents. That was literally the entire point of his thread, and you missed it.
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Post by mechtout on May 21, 2017 9:06:53 GMT -5
once you hit 10/10, you'll be putting the hurt on 12/12's if you have some decent skills. weapons and bot levels can only get you so far. I would even say 9/10 can hold their own vs maxed players. Play like you assume everyone is maxed out, and you won't be confused (at least until you see their health depleting quickly )
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Post by FRΞΞDØM☆F1GHTΞR on May 21, 2017 9:55:17 GMT -5
If you don't want to upgrade and climb the ranks, then don't. Nobody is forcing you. The game is forcing you. By constantly placing you against players with higher level weaponry, it gimps your performance and your enjoyment. Nobody likes being +/-2(or more) weapon and bot levels behind their opponents. That was literally the entire point of his thread, and you missed it. No, it's not forcing you. The game has a natural progression curve and you have the choice of keeping up or staying behind. Most players choose to follow the curve and upgrade their equipment because winning is generally more fun than losing. The biggest downside to upgrading is that eventually the equipment levels even out between players. At that point, one can no longer use that as the excuse for why they perform so poorly.
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Chicken Adobo
Destrier
Posts: 93
Karma: 61
Pilot name: W A R L Ө C K
Platform: iOS
League: Diamond
Server Region: Asia
Favorite robot: Griffin
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Post by Chicken Adobo on May 21, 2017 9:59:31 GMT -5
So easy isn't it?
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Post by nocluevok on May 21, 2017 10:19:27 GMT -5
So easy isn't it? Depends on how much you play. I need 180 million just to finish off weapon upgrades in my primary hanger. That's going to take a minute.
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Chicken Adobo
Destrier
Posts: 93
Karma: 61
Pilot name: W A R L Ө C K
Platform: iOS
League: Diamond
Server Region: Asia
Favorite robot: Griffin
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Post by Chicken Adobo on May 21, 2017 10:42:41 GMT -5
So easy isn't it? Depends on how much you play. I need 180 million just to finish off weapon upgrades in my primary hanger. That's going to take a minute. I feel yah bro! It's too expensive to upgrade weapons in Russia. It also take darn long. They only add a few grams of gunpowder on those Pinatas and a few breadcrumbs of Mexican taco dipped in petrol for splash damage... and it will take hours and even days. They could've put some nuke in there for that timeframe. Let me tell yah something bro, let's go to China as I've heard the upgrade costs of weapons there is cheaper. And the best thing is, they'll add firecrakers inside every rockets and missiles. They'll also install a Bruce Lee sfx on the grills of my Griffin so that when it fires its rockets on a Lancelot it will feel like nunchucks on a New Year's Day as firecrackers engulfs its face.
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Post by Ron Gaul on May 21, 2017 11:20:20 GMT -5
I want to be able to run my bots at whatever level is strongest for my play style. If you make all bots and weapons have only one level, that removes a major strategic element: determining what is the most effective bot and weapon level FOR YOU, for that bot, for that setup. It allows you to optimize your hangar to suit your own needs. Though, I do believe they should go back to a gear-based MM.
What you've described, where all bots are equally leveled on the test server...well, max your bots out and nothing will be stronger than you! And then it becomes skill-based. And, the skills you've earned as you worked your way upwards, those skills will serve you well now that you're at the top of the food chain.
But that's something to earn, to work towards. Without that, what is there to do in this game? Because currently, every game is a struggle to figure out how to get a tiny little edge to give you the advantage. Maybe you just upgraded a Taran to L10, and you duel a pilot who only has an L9. All other things being equal, you win, because you upgraded and he didn't.
Take away levels and this game will die. Upgrading gear is part of what makes this game what it is.
If anything, I'd like them to add more levels.
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Post by nocluevok on May 21, 2017 12:09:29 GMT -5
Depends on how much you play. I need 180 million just to finish off weapon upgrades in my primary hanger. That's going to take a minute. I feel yah bro! It's too expensive to upgrade weapons in Russia. It also take darn long. They only add a few grams of gunpowder on those Pinatas and a few breadcrumbs of Mexican taco dipped in petrol for splash damage... and it will take hours and even days. They could've put some nuke in there for that timeframe. Let me tell yah something bro, let's go to China as I've heard the upgrade costs of weapons there is cheaper. And the best thing is, they'll add firecrakers inside every rockets and missiles. They'll also install a Bruce Lee sfx on the grills of my Griffin so that when it fires its rockets on a Lancelot it will feel like nunchucks on a New Year's Day as firecrackers engulfs its face.
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Post by ΜØØSE on May 21, 2017 13:14:53 GMT -5
To those who are telling me to simply max out my hangar to make everything equal...
That literally takes thousands of matches to get to that point, even with premium. I have a job, family, volunteer work, and it's all grand. I'm not giving that up to achieve game balance.
Not to mention, having everyone at 12 is not balanced. Having everyone at 8 produces a lot more variety in gameplay, as the test server demonstrates.
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