ziglodyte
GI. Patton
Posts: 147
Karma: 111
Pilot name: Light Legs
Platform: Facebook
Clan: ANgr
League: Master
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Gareth
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Post by ziglodyte on May 20, 2017 6:33:35 GMT -5
This is inspired in part by ideas I've seen floated for weapon-splitters that would allow for new weapon set possibilities.
Right now we have:
Light: 4x on Patton 2x2 on Jesse 3x on Gep 2x on Stalker and Destrier 1x1M on Gareth 2x1M on Galahad 2x2M on Griff and Rhino 2x1H on Vit 3x1H on Leo 2x2H on Natasha 1x1Mx1H on Golem
Medium: 3x on Fujin 2x on Rog 1x1H on Boa 1x on Cossack 2x1H on Lance 2x2 on Doc
Heavy: 1x on Shutze 2x on Carnage and Raijin 3x on Fury 2x2 on Butch
In terms of bots: 7x light 8x Medium 8x Heavy
In terms of hardpoints across bots: 30x light hardpoints 20x medium hardpoints 19x heavy hardpoints I think I got that all right but going on memory.
Dash bots notwithstanding, what would you most like to see introduced?
Should Stalker/Destrier, Griff/Rhino, or Carnage/Raijin be changed to have unique hardpoints? Do any existing bots seem out-of-place comparatively?
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Post by Golden Sabre on May 20, 2017 6:54:34 GMT -5
Three heavies on the Raijin, (even though I don't own one or even care to) would be a great improvement. I personally would pay real money for a bot that goes 80kph + and has 3 medium hardpints. I don't care much for heavy hardpints as they are too slow for my tastes and lights just don't do enough damage.
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Post by psyflex on May 20, 2017 7:07:05 GMT -5
I'd like to have adapters for heavy and medium hardpoints, so it would become possible to mount medium or light weapons on a heavy hardpoint and light weapons on a medium hardpoint.
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ziglodyte
GI. Patton
Posts: 147
Karma: 111
Pilot name: Light Legs
Platform: Facebook
Clan: ANgr
League: Master
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Gareth
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Post by ziglodyte on May 20, 2017 7:07:54 GMT -5
Looking at what we got, the Patton seems out of place to me. Only bot that can weild 4 of the same weapon without swapping like the gunslingers, and it's a silver bot. I think changing it to a 3x light, 1x medium would up it's firepower yet break up the 4-weapon set, bringing it more in line with the Leo, Vityaz, and Golem while backing off of Jesse's niche. Bot specs might need to be changed some as well for balance, but I think this could balance the game a little better in terms of overall weapon set balance.
As a bit of a tangent, I also like the idea of giving the poor ol' Destrier either a hardpoints makeover or a special ability of some kind. It's the starter bot, but also the only bot with a redundant hardpoint set and no unique ability. Here's an idea: give Destrier a unique ability to instantly flip a beacon from white to blue or red to white, 20sec cooldown. Get new players thinking beacons right off the bat and open up suicide Destrier beacon-capping shenanigans.
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Post by Russel on May 20, 2017 7:20:40 GMT -5
Looking at what we got, the Patton seems out of place to me. Only bot that can weild 4 of the same weapon without swapping like the gunslingers, and it's a silver bot. I think changing it to a 3x light, 1x medium would up it's firepower yet break up the 4-weapon set, bringing it more in line with the Leo, Vityaz, and Golem while backing off of Jesse's niche. Bot specs might need to be changed some as well for balance, but I think this could balance the game a little better in terms of overall weapon set balance. As a bit of a tangent, I also like the idea of giving the poor ol' Destrier either a hardpoints makeover or a special ability of some kind. It's the starter bot, but also the only bot with a redundant hardpoint set and no unique ability. Here's an idea: give Destrier a unique ability to instantly flip a beacon from white to blue or red to white, 20sec cooldown. Get new players thinking beacons right off the bat and open up suicide Destrier beacon-capping shenanigans. And what about Gepard? What is his uniqueness? Less slots that Jesse\Gareth\Patton Slower speed that almost any light bot (save for Destrier) and even some mediums (Carnage, Rog) Less HP that most of lights (Stalker, Schutze, Gareth+shield, Destrier) No special ability PRICED IN GOLD
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ziglodyte
GI. Patton
Posts: 147
Karma: 111
Pilot name: Light Legs
Platform: Facebook
Clan: ANgr
League: Master
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Gareth
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Post by ziglodyte on May 20, 2017 7:25:04 GMT -5
I'd like to have adapters for heavy and medium hardpoints, so it would become possible to mount medium or light weapons on a heavy hardpoint and light weapons on a medium hardpoint. Shoulda included weapon-splitters/adapters in the poll perhaps. Are you talking straight-up trading down, or trading 1 slot for 2 lighter weapons? If you had to choose one kind of splitter/adapter, what would be the most reasonable? How would you use it? A medium-to-light adapter sounds the most appealing to me, but that also sounds like a recipe for Aphid shenanigans. Trading 1 heavy for 2 light might be more balanced and interesting. 6x Gekko/Noricum Natasha/Fury. 4x Magnum Carnage/Raijin. This question gets out of hand because it could have such a wide-ranging impact and easily create OP builds. It's simpler to consider what we already have and what single change could create more balance and variety.
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ziglodyte
GI. Patton
Posts: 147
Karma: 111
Pilot name: Light Legs
Platform: Facebook
Clan: ANgr
League: Master
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Gareth
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Post by ziglodyte on May 20, 2017 7:31:27 GMT -5
Looking at what we got, the Patton seems out of place to me. Only bot that can weild 4 of the same weapon without swapping like the gunslingers, and it's a silver bot. I think changing it to a 3x light, 1x medium would up it's firepower yet break up the 4-weapon set, bringing it more in line with the Leo, Vityaz, and Golem while backing off of Jesse's niche. Bot specs might need to be changed some as well for balance, but I think this could balance the game a little better in terms of overall weapon set balance. As a bit of a tangent, I also like the idea of giving the poor ol' Destrier either a hardpoints makeover or a special ability of some kind. It's the starter bot, but also the only bot with a redundant hardpoint set and no unique ability. Here's an idea: give Destrier a unique ability to instantly flip a beacon from white to blue or red to white, 20sec cooldown. Get new players thinking beacons right off the bat and open up suicide Destrier beacon-capping shenanigans. And what about Gepard? What is his uniqueness? Less slots that Jesse\Gareth\Patton Slower speed that almost any light bot (save for Destrier) and even some mediums (Carnage, Rog) Less HP that most of lights (Stalker, Schutze, Gareth+shield, Destrier) No special ability PRICED IN GOLD Fair points, but it's weapon set is at least unique, and there is real value in having multiple slots of the same kind (i.e. Patton vs Golem). I agree though that it's up there in terms of bots that could use more of a niche to excel at. Hell, give it that beacon-turning ability too. Destrier can still become obsolete.
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Post by psyflex on May 20, 2017 7:42:04 GMT -5
Shoulda included weapon-splitters/adapters in the poll perhaps. Are you talking straight-up trading down, or trading 1 slot for 2 lighter weapons? If you had to choose one kind of splitter/adapter, what would be the most reasonable? How would you use it? Well is was thinking of a 1:1 trade. Rajin, Carnage and Natasha could carry 2 Tarans instead of Thunders... The Cossack could carry Aphids or a Magnum... And so on... There are surely more interesting options. A 2:1 trade would also be a possibility, allowing the Rajin to carry 4 of the soon to be buffed Geckos, but a 2:1 trade might really be a problem for the whole balance of the game. It was just an idea that came up my mind one day and i thought it would fit good into this thread. I'd like to see more mountable devices in the game, that are no weapons, so each mech could be customized more to ones liking.
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Post by Russel on May 20, 2017 8:06:51 GMT -5
And what about Gepard? What is his uniqueness? Less slots that Jesse\Gareth\Patton Slower speed that almost any light bot (save for Destrier) and even some mediums (Carnage, Rog) Less HP that most of lights (Stalker, Schutze, Gareth+shield, Destrier) No special ability PRICED IN GOLD Fair points, but it's weapon set is at least unique, and there is real value in having multiple slots of the same kind (i.e. Patton vs Golem). I agree though that it's up there in terms of bots that could use more of a niche to excel at. Hell, give it that beacon-turning ability too. Destrier can still become obsolete. Honestly, being "Cheetah" should give this bot ability to make very fast leap to catch up on enemy... And we might make it special ability... and call it.. Dash? Oh, crap, it is already out there :( Then it would be nice to disable enemy bot controls or fiddle with them, say, enemy bot got his left and right swapped for a 10 seconds.
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Post by Russel on May 20, 2017 8:08:46 GMT -5
Shoulda included weapon-splitters/adapters in the poll perhaps. Are you talking straight-up trading down, or trading 1 slot for 2 lighter weapons? If you had to choose one kind of splitter/adapter, what would be the most reasonable? How would you use it? Well is was thinking of a 1:1 trade. Rajin, Carnage and Natasha could carry 2 Tarans instead of Thunders... The Cossack could carry Aphids or a Magnum... And so on... There are surely more interesting options. A 2:1 trade would also be a possibility, allowing the Rajin to carry 4 of the soon to be buffed Geckos, but a 2:1 trade might really be a problem for the whole balance of the game. It was just an idea that came up my mind one day and i thought it would fit good into this thread. I'd like to see more mountable devices in the game, that are no weapons, so each mech could be customized more to ones liking. :-D Got this very heated up discussion about "how many light weapons equals to one heavy" And it is not that easy as you stated. Heavy is NOT equal 2 or 3 light weapons, and Medium is NOT equal to 1.5 light. So it would be nice to make 1-1 trade for some specific builds, but no complicated conversion rate.
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Post by drake1588 on May 20, 2017 10:24:55 GMT -5
Would love to see Leo have his topmost light hardpoint changed to a medium. Think it would be just enough of a nudge to get him to where Griffin is - totally serviceable from the time you buy him.
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Post by Russel on May 20, 2017 10:39:44 GMT -5
Would love to see Leo have his topmost light hardpoint changed to a medium. Think it would be just enough of a nudge to get him to where Griffin is - totally serviceable from the time you buy him. Well, Thunder or Zeus is nice and comes pre-upgraded to lvl5
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Post by drake1588 on May 20, 2017 10:50:58 GMT -5
Would love to see Leo have his topmost light hardpoint changed to a medium. Think it would be just enough of a nudge to get him to where Griffin is - totally serviceable from the time you buy him. Well, Thunder or Zeus is nice and comes pre-upgraded to lvl5 My bad - meant that he'd be playable up to champion with the extra firepower. Having an orkan or taran there would make a big quality of life difference against Brit bots and carnages. He gives up lances shields for more firepower, and it'd make ancile on him much more significant. He'd be closer to a Galahad in terms of effectiveness. Same firepower, but more raw HP, no shield, but an ancile to ward off rockets. Would really fill a niche that doesn't exist yet.
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Post by Russel on May 20, 2017 11:10:59 GMT -5
Well, Thunder or Zeus is nice and comes pre-upgraded to lvl5 My bad - meant that he'd be playable up to champion with the extra firepower. Having an orkan or taran there would make a big quality of life difference against Brit bots and carnages. He gives up lances shields for more firepower, and it'd make ancile on him much more significant. He'd be closer to a Galahad in terms of effectiveness. Same firepower, but more raw HP, no shield, but an ancile to ward off rockets. Would really fill a niche that doesn't exist yet. Well, I haven't been to Champions, but I heard it is a bore where only Gareth, Galahad, Lance, Griffin and Carnage could be player, so it's not a big loss for me :-D Please tell me - why Zeus is no good in Champions?
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Post by gr3ygh05t on May 20, 2017 11:28:01 GMT -5
Personally, I like my current setup: A large hardpoint set low, below the belt.
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Post by drake1588 on May 20, 2017 11:42:56 GMT -5
My bad - meant that he'd be playable up to champion with the extra firepower. Having an orkan or taran there would make a big quality of life difference against Brit bots and carnages. He gives up lances shields for more firepower, and it'd make ancile on him much more significant. He'd be closer to a Galahad in terms of effectiveness. Same firepower, but more raw HP, no shield, but an ancile to ward off rockets. Would really fill a niche that doesn't exist yet. Well, I haven't been to Champions, but I heard it is a bore where only Gareth, Galahad, Lance, Griffin and Carnage could be player, so it's not a big loss for me :-D Please tell me - why Zeus is no good in Champions? Trident fury makes it in as well. Gary usually doesn't other than as a beacon capper. 12/12 Ancilots are largely the reason for the stale meta at the top. Its mostly a bunch of lances, db griffins, plasma Galahad, and a few trident furies. Zeus struggles because of all the shield bots. Trident fury can knockdown or weaken the thork lances and Galahads, as well as the Griffs.
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Post by Russel on May 20, 2017 14:53:02 GMT -5
Well, I haven't been to Champions, but I heard it is a bore where only Gareth, Galahad, Lance, Griffin and Carnage could be player, so it's not a big loss for me :-D Please tell me - why Zeus is no good in Champions? Trident fury makes it in as well. Gary usually doesn't other than as a beacon capper. 12/12 Ancilots are largely the reason for the stale meta at the top. Its mostly a bunch of lances, db griffins, plasma Galahad, and a few trident furies. Zeus struggles because of all the shield bots. Trident fury can knockdown or weaken the thork lances and Galahads, as well as the Griffs. Well, in iOS it's a little bit different. A lot of Gareths, with occasional Rhino, and, sometimes, even Fujin. But overall it's like Quake3 with a lot less jumping. About Zeus - I was thinking; with good deal of damage and short reload time, it ignores the Ancile, so can deal good damage to a Lance or Carnage; more than that, you don't need to aim it well.. May it be that the reason behind Zeus being underappreciated is the notorious bug with damage not being registered?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2017 16:03:25 GMT -5
The Fujin is unique. It is actually more like 3x Medium and 1x Heavy. Maybe 1.5x Heavy since the shield is so strong. It's a medium bot that has the firepower of a heavy bot like a Griffin, plus it has an extra hard point.
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ziglodyte
GI. Patton
Posts: 147
Karma: 111
Pilot name: Light Legs
Platform: Facebook
Clan: ANgr
League: Master
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Gareth
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Post by ziglodyte on May 20, 2017 16:16:36 GMT -5
The Fujin is unique. It is actually more like 3x Medium and 1x Heavy. Maybe 1.5x Heavy since the shield is so strong. It's a medium bot that has the firepower of a heavy bot like a Griffin, plus it has an extra hard point. The Fujin shield is hard to compare directly. It's strong, but holding still to deploy it is a significant downside that goes a long way to balance it. Carnage is generally considered superior thanks to its mobility. The lack of bot diversity in higher leagues is a big concern for me. Might help a lot if Lance had the Butch deal where Ancile can't be equipped. Both kinds of shields on one bot makes it so dominant. Another solution would be having Ancile deploy and immobilize the bot just like with the Fujin shield. Carnage would be more balanced if shield only deployed during its rush mode.
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ziglodyte
GI. Patton
Posts: 147
Karma: 111
Pilot name: Light Legs
Platform: Facebook
Clan: ANgr
League: Master
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Gareth
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Post by ziglodyte on May 20, 2017 16:26:04 GMT -5
Would love to see Leo have his topmost light hardpoint changed to a medium. Think it would be just enough of a nudge to get him to where Griffin is - totally serviceable from the time you buy him. This might make Golem too obsolete. At least in Silver, Leo already is probably second most common after Griff. I think a change to Griff would be more in line with game balance. It's currently the only silver bot that excels at high levels, and that diminishes Rhino usage a lot.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2017 17:30:48 GMT -5
The Fujin is unique. It is actually more like 3x Medium and 1x Heavy. Maybe 1.5x Heavy since the shield is so strong. It's a medium bot that has the firepower of a heavy bot like a Griffin, plus it has an extra hard point. The Fujin shield is hard to compare directly. It's strong, but holding still to deploy it is a significant downside that goes a long way to balance it. Carnage is generally considered superior thanks to its mobility. The lack of bot diversity in higher leagues is a big concern for me. Might help a lot if Lance had the Butch deal where Ancile can't be equipped. Both kinds of shields on one bot makes it so dominant. Another solution would be having Ancile deploy and immobilize the bot just like with the Fujin shield. Carnage would be more balanced if shield only deployed during its rush mode. True, but it's still a bit much for a medium. If you're talking about the Carnage Thunder, it's considered a glass cannon. All the WSP bots require skill to use. It makes it easier for me. You only have to deal with 2 types of bots. Whenever there is a new bot on the field, like the Rogatka or Butch, it messes with my mojo.
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ziglodyte
GI. Patton
Posts: 147
Karma: 111
Pilot name: Light Legs
Platform: Facebook
Clan: ANgr
League: Master
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Gareth
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Post by ziglodyte on May 20, 2017 22:01:29 GMT -5
Thinking about it more, I'm okay with all the silver bots becoming mostly absolete in upper leagues. It's fine as long as they are varied and diverse enough to serve in the lower leagues for newer players, slowly being replaced as you progress. Griff is the one true exception to this. The Griff's hardpoints are what really seem out of line to me. Two sets of two ends up being really powerful. The Rhino has the same but its special ability disables the mediums. With Griff as a silver bot, it seems like too much.
If the Griff instead had 1 light and 2 medium, or 3 light and 1 medium, it would make the Rhino the only 2Lx2M, with that built-in disability. I imagine Plasma and DB Griffs would still see play in lower tiers, but not such overplay. And Rhinos would be more attractive over them for higher tiers then. The best Griff setups would still work well enough with 3 Mags and 1 Taran, or 1 Pinata and 2 Orkans. Still more firepower than Galahad.
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Post by cakeordeath on May 20, 2017 22:56:54 GMT -5
Three heavies on the Raijin, (even though I don't own one or even care to) would be a great improvement. I personally would pay real money for a bot that goes 80kph + and has 3 medium hardpints. I don't care much for heavy hardpints as they are too slow for my tastes and lights just don't do enough damage. 3 heavies on the raijin would make the Fury utterly obsolete. Adding a light (or maybe a medium) weapon to its existing two hardpoints would be a solid upgrade.
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ziglodyte
GI. Patton
Posts: 147
Karma: 111
Pilot name: Light Legs
Platform: Facebook
Clan: ANgr
League: Master
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Gareth
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Post by ziglodyte on May 21, 2017 0:15:13 GMT -5
Three heavies on the Raijin, (even though I don't own one or even care to) would be a great improvement. I personally would pay real money for a bot that goes 80kph + and has 3 medium hardpints. I don't care much for heavy hardpints as they are too slow for my tastes and lights just don't do enough damage. 3 heavies on the raijin would make the Fury utterly obsolete. Adding a light (or maybe a medium) weapon to its existing two hardpoints would be a solid upgrade. Yeah, it's very important to keep in mind what else is out there and avoid making anything obsolete. That's why I laid out the info in the OP. 2 heavy and 1 medium on Raijin would also give it a unique weapon set, like either of my Griff suggestions above. I'd be in favor of this change as well at first blush.
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Post by ༒ƜƦƛƖƬӇ༒ on May 22, 2017 2:43:18 GMT -5
Would love to see Leo have his topmost light hardpoint changed to a medium. Think it would be just enough of a nudge to get him to where Griffin is - totally serviceable from the time you buy him. Leo would then also need a speed buff..
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Post by drake1588 on May 22, 2017 10:01:39 GMT -5
Would love to see Leo have his topmost light hardpoint changed to a medium. Think it would be just enough of a nudge to get him to where Griffin is - totally serviceable from the time you buy him. Leo would then also need a speed buff.. I would vote he gets a missile umbrella. It'd be hilarious, plus he'd automatically be the go to camping not! Everyone would think it is useless until Pix accidentally overbuffs Noricum and zenith, then all of a sudden umbrella Leo is king! ? ??
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