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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Dec 7, 2016 17:20:54 GMT -5
I think I'm pretty smart, and I've stared at the matchmaking Wiki page for far too long. I keep seeing an anomaly in most peeps hangers however, in that their medium bots are at the same level as their heavy bots, and it's creating an itch in my brain that I just have to scratch. Now I do realize there are some serious changes coming to the Matchmaker, but in the mean time... warrobots.wikia.com/wiki/MatchmakingAs an example, say a pilot has a Rhino at level 4 with an average of level 6 guns. According to the chart, that should equal a Hanger Score (HS) of 615 (H4/6). In order to create a 'balanced' hanger and avoid having one bot be stronger than the rest o your hanger, I'm assuming you should find the nearest equivalent hanger score for the rest of your non-heavy bots and target upgrades accordingly. In this example, any medium bot should be having one of the following combos for a HS of 610; 1/11, 3/10, 5/9, or 7/8. For light bots, they would need to would be at 6/12, 8/11, or 10/10 for a HS of 605. So is it just me? Am I missing something? 'Cause the vast majority of profiles that I look at don't seem to have that statistical strategy...  |
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Post by Muhlakai on Dec 7, 2016 18:37:12 GMT -5
You're absolutely correct. Most folks have no idea how the MM works. So they build randomly and mostly just try to copy whatever magic numbers they think might be working from someone else's profile.
In general, work towards getting your hangar to exactly where you know you SHOULD have/want it. If you want to look at other hangars, only look at hangars that scored about the same or more damage than you. Ignore the numbers and just look at what weapons they're using. Keep in mind that everyone gets lucky sometimes, too, so if their build looks weird it probably still is even if they outscored you.
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Dec 7, 2016 19:10:42 GMT -5
That's just... I mean, wait, seriously? That can't be right... I'm too old to be that smart...
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Post by Muhlakai on Dec 7, 2016 20:05:27 GMT -5
Look at it this way: some people still think you're crazy with that pro-Gep stance...  |
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Post by Zhøu™ on Dec 7, 2016 22:25:47 GMT -5
It's not rocket science. And also dependant on the Medium bot. If it's Carnage, Fujin or Galahad, generally recommended to keep it equally leveled as your heavy bots to prevent MM from screwing things up.
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Post by BLYTHE on Dec 7, 2016 22:34:45 GMT -5
It's not rocket science. And also dependant on the Medium bot. If it's Carnage, Fujin or Galahad, generally recommended to keep it equally leveled as your heavy bots to prevent MM from screwing things up. Hey, Zhou. I didn't know this--it's because those are gold or WSP bots, yes? But maybe when you're already in gold tier it doesn't matter all that much since your 8/11 hangar's going to go up against maxed out one anyway. |
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Post by Zhøu™ on Dec 7, 2016 22:47:51 GMT -5
It's not rocket science. And also dependant on the Medium bot. If it's Carnage, Fujin or Galahad, generally recommended to keep it equally leveled as your heavy bots to prevent MM from screwing things up. Hey, Zhou. I didn't know this--it's because those are gold or WSP bots, yes? But maybe when you're already in gold tier it doesn't matter all that much since your 8/11 hangar's going to go up against maxed out one anyway. Yeah, they have a 1.1 multiplier, that bumps you up probably 1 tier just by having it. |
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Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Dec 10, 2016 16:29:28 GMT -5
So here are my results. Das Hanger:  I'll admit, the other team might have had their heads up their waste orifices, but they did try. Is this clubbing yet?  But no matter what, I'm proud of my hanger now, where as before I was ashamed. ill admit it does look a lot better (even though I can't see the photos on here), but obviously everyone starts somewhere. You already had the knowledge required to make a sound hangar and the skills to pilot your bots, so it made it a lot easier. |
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Dec 11, 2016 0:45:37 GMT -5
ill admit it does look a lot better (even though I can't see the photos on here), but obviously everyone starts somewhere. You already had the knowledge required to make a sound hangar and the skills to pilot your bots, so it made it a lot easier. It's called a PEBKAC error... "Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair" Let's try that again. I'm currently upgrading the Galahad to to level 10, then the Carnage next. This will bump up my hanger score by about 5 points, so no big deal. Then I will work on upgrading all the guns for the Heavies to level 9 and on and on and on. This is my hanger.  This is a recent match result where I almost felt like a seal clubber.  |
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Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Dec 11, 2016 0:58:53 GMT -5
It's called a PEBKAC error... "Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair" i think everyone had this error when they started War Robots  |
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Post by Strayed on Dec 11, 2016 4:16:18 GMT -5
Hello lilith, mm goes off of the highest level bot you have for matchmaking. This means that not keeping your bots at equal level is effectively handicapping yourself.
Heavy bots start at level 6, have more weaps, and can usually hold heavier weaps, so that's why they have a higher mm score that doesn't matter outside of low silver.
Also, while that galahad of yours, as well as the carnage, have a mm penalty, it does not matter outside of low silver. Same for the rhino.
Remove your mediums until your heavies get up to speed. Also, why did you spend gold on that griffin skin rather than something to replace your leo? If you want midrange, I would almost always recommend an rdb griff or a trident fury over any other setup outside of maybe a trident carnage.
You should be keeping all of your bots at the same level by now. Keep your weaps two levels higher than bots and you should be fine.
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Post by Strayed on Dec 11, 2016 4:20:30 GMT -5
Also, your current hangar is at high gold, you may wanna step back a bit. Just saying.
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Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Dec 11, 2016 4:28:43 GMT -5
Heavy bots start at level 6, have more weaps, and can usually hold heavier weaps, so that's why they have a higher mm score that doesn't matter outside of low silver. how exactly does this work? This pretty much means that you can throw all other tier advice out the window past low silver. |
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Post by Strayed on Dec 11, 2016 4:42:16 GMT -5
Generally, in low silver, most of the meta bots have to be at most level 4. Heavies start at level 6.
Now, let's compare the griffin and the Patton. The griffin holds two lights and two mediums which adds up to a total firepower of 5 light slots. The patton can hold four light slots. This means the griff has one more light slot of firepower than the patton, which pix has adjusted for. Differing weapon slots, light, medium, and heavy, have different mm weights and averages. However, weapon slots by themselves generally have a much lower weight than bots, which means that the difference is negligible outside of low silver where a small amount of mm change can be the difference between beating up noobs and facing six gold tier rhinos(I love how rhinos are still the boogeymen of the game) due to the large amount of players there. MM is desperate to get players into the higher tiers.
In the higher tiers, this difference becomes negligible, as medium bots can level up to level 6 and beyond, and the individual level of each weapon becomes much less important outside of keeping them at least two levels higher than bots. This is due to the higher tiers having a much higher level of mm variance due to a lower amount of players. Bot speed and health are much more important in the higher tiers as bots are slower so they'll have to take more damage in general and still have to have enough speed to avoid db setups. This is why 4/12 lights are recommended in low silver while 7/9 bots in general are recommended for low gold.
This does not throw out all other tier advice out of the window. You still have to have weaps higher than bots, it's just that bot level matters a lot more.
Forgive me if I missed anything or there is some inaccuracy, it is quite late over here.
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Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Dec 11, 2016 4:57:36 GMT -5
What happened to lights being weighted less than mediums and mediums less than heavies? O.o so confused right now..
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Post by Strayed on Dec 11, 2016 5:04:35 GMT -5
AFAIK, that only really applies in the lower tiers. The higher tiers have too much variance.
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Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Dec 11, 2016 5:13:15 GMT -5
AFAIK, that only really applies in the lower tiers. The higher tiers have too much variance. after sticking in low gold for quite a while now, I can safely say that 8/9 heavies, 9/10 mediums and 10/11 lights are weighted very similarly. I check hangars very often and can generally tell when a strangely high hangar gets pushed down to low gold. Past that I believe puts you very frequently into high gold, which in turn matches you often against maxed hangars. Edit: but it is good to know that bots are weighted more similarly past low silver, I was pretty left in the dark for a while there. |
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Post by Strayed on Dec 11, 2016 5:15:47 GMT -5
Even with 7/9 heavies I was getting pushed up to top tier every once in a while. MM might have changed by then though.
Currently, with a 6/6-7 hangar I'm getting pushed up to low gold every other match.
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Dec 11, 2016 11:52:23 GMT -5
Numbers don't lie, me buckos... I'm going strictly by the matchmaking stat chart made by this very community, and according to that, it matters. M10/10 is HS 750, and H6/8 is 735. Once I've upgraded the heavies weapons to L9, my HS will be 775. And I will absolutely testify to my medium bots are finally not being such glass cannons. I regularly get 300K damage and some 2 - 3 kills (and that screen shot of a match I finally posted correctly, which shows 11 kills and 500K+ damage), and sometimes I don't even need to pull out the Leo for a sniper's revenge. I haven't been running this hanger long enough to give a good estimate on win/loss just yet, but already it's much more *satisfying* to play in general. As for my effective battle tier, I think I'm seeing high silver at best, with occasional trash gold matches. I have yet to ever see any maxed hangers in this game, period. Well, maybe there's been a few times when squadding with my clan, but some of WWF's members are pushing H10/10 so it's their fault  [Edit] About the skin on my Griffin... Bite Me!  I'm only human. That Griff is oldest bot in my collection by purchased date. It's killed several hundred if not thousands of bots by now. I'm also an original pirate (read: anarchist) so I'm a sucker for anything with a skull or Jolly Roger on it. It's also the cheapest skin and I really don't like any of the other skins. 1200 Au was worth it to me, fair enough?[/] |
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Post by SGT D00M! on Dec 11, 2016 12:35:35 GMT -5
Balance is easy with all like bots. Start mixing light, medium, and heavies and wsp/britbots and the math gets stupid hard fast. It's why I have always been a fan of hangar average score. Hopefuly the new MM will allow us to burn our slide rulers for good....
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Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Dec 11, 2016 14:34:26 GMT -5
About the skin on my Griffin... Bite Me! I'm only human. That Griff is oldest bot in my collection by purchased date. It's killed several hundred if not thousands of bots by now. I'm also an original pirate (read: anarchist) so I'm a sucker for anything with a skull or Jolly Roger on it. It's also the cheapest skin and I really don't like any of the other skins. 1200 Au was worth it to me, fair enough?[/] pale rider is the best one anyway |
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Post by Strayed on Dec 11, 2016 16:18:26 GMT -5
Numbers don't lie, me buckos... I'm going strictly by the matchmaking stat chart made by this very community, and according to that, it matters. M10/10 is HS 750, and H6/8 is 735. Once I've upgraded the heavies weapons to L9, my HS will be 775. And I will absolutely testify to my medium bots are finally not being such glass cannons. I regularly get 300K damage and some 2 - 3 kills (and that screen shot of a match I finally posted correctly, which shows 11 kills and 500K+ damage), and sometimes I don't even need to pull out the Leo for a sniper's revenge. I haven't been running this hanger long enough to give a good estimate on win/loss just yet, but already it's much more *satisfying* to play in general. As for my effective battle tier, I think I'm seeing high silver at best, with occasional trash gold matches. I have yet to ever see any maxed hangers in this game, period. Well, maybe there's been a few times when squadding with my clan, but some of WWF's members are pushing H10/10 so it's their fault [Edit] About the skin on my Griffin... Bite Me! I'm only human. That Griff is oldest bot in my collection by purchased date. It's killed several hundred if not thousands of bots by now. I'm also an original pirate (read: anarchist) so I'm a sucker for anything with a skull or Jolly Roger on it. It's also the cheapest skin and I really don't like any of the other skins. 1200 Au was worth it to me, fair enough?[/] Can you show me the hangars of some of your enemies? High silver is around bot level 6, weap level 8. |
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Dec 11, 2016 16:45:47 GMT -5
I'll grab some for ya, sure!  'Tis a puzzle most vexing to me... Especially with all the 'upside down' bots. |
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Post by Strayed on Dec 11, 2016 16:51:44 GMT -5
 This is my current hangar. |
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Dec 11, 2016 17:38:36 GMT -5
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Post by Strayed on Dec 11, 2016 17:54:15 GMT -5
Judging by bot levels, both are mid gold at the very least.
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Post by [AurN]Zenotaph on Dec 11, 2016 18:02:34 GMT -5
I'm all about a balanced hangar, since I came to this forum.
Momentarily I run medium bots 4 with weapons 6. But I'm working on heavies 6 with weapons 8.
I want to bring along a Carnage and a Gepard. The last one for beacon capping.
What to say? It works out really fine. I'm almost always in the top three and first,
or second in beacon capping. I'm thinking about leveling my meds further up, but right now,
I don't know how to it the best way...
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Dec 11, 2016 20:47:00 GMT -5
Judging by bot levels, both are mid gold at the very least. But they're upside-down-ish... and they totally sucked until they figured out to team up on me... Would my hanger be higher or lower? I'd also like to point out my four beacon captures. I might have had higher damage if I wasn't trying to win the match. That said, methinks we lost because of too many glory hounds on our team, but that's soloing for you. |
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Post by Strayed on Dec 11, 2016 21:45:09 GMT -5
Lol, I can feel the pain of other solo-ers.
Anyways, as stated before, weap levels have much less weight on mm than bot levels. Unless those stats were exceptionally bad enough to qualify them for "trash" gold(which would only apply to maybe the first two), they're in mid gold.
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Dec 15, 2016 14:57:42 GMT -5
Here's where I'm at now. I haven't done any gold farming runs in about a week (nor am I going back to that, don't need it anymore), so that 74% win-rate is with this hanger (with the exception that I swapped out a Leo I hardly use with a Golem I hardly use).  |
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'Tis a puzzle most vexing to me... Especially with all the 'upside down' bots.![[AurN]Zenotaph Avatar](http://www.teeri.net/aurn/aurnlogo28feb1-avatar.jpg){kind=avatar}