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Post by 2die on Apr 22, 2017 7:52:28 GMT -5
Listening to the pixonic and players discussion the devs mention (@about 1:48:50) the aphids are overpowered and do about 40% more damage than other light weapons and say that was not their intent to do this and they pretty much say it has to be nurfed.
I just bought 2 a few days ago and couldn't decided between 2 aphids or 1 orkan as I didn't have any, I'm kind of regretting the decision already.
I might have to stop leveling them already (1 is level 8 and the other is level 5 at the moment on a level 6 griff) and go for pins instead.
This makes 4 gold items I have saved for ages through 100s of hours of play to get that is of no use now, it would be nice if they give a option to refund gold for items that they change but it won't happen as they want to sell gold for cash.
Thoughts and opinions?
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Post by carnage on Apr 22, 2017 8:03:33 GMT -5
I really don't see Aphids as OP at all. I bought a few, and find them very underwhelming.
I mean, Gareths/Galahads are just too fast (and even if you connect, damages are minimal), Griffin can jump, Anciles stop Aphids... frankly there is not that many situations in which I can really say that Aphids are so efficient. On the opposite I'd say they are kinda useless in quite a lot of situations.
If anything they'd need a little buf.
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Post by 2die on Apr 22, 2017 8:09:31 GMT -5
I really don't see Aphids as OP at all. I bought a few, and find them very underwhelming. I mean, Gareths/Galahads are just too fast (and even if you connect, damages are minimal), Griffin can jump, Anciles stop Aphids... frankly there is not that many situations in which I can really say that Aphids are so efficient. On the opposite I'd say they are kinda useless in quite a lot of situations. If anything they'd need a little buf. A quad aphid patton has often dropped my hit points by half or more. I hate getting smashed by them.. it's the reason I bought them in the first place.
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zigzak0110
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Post by zigzak0110 on Apr 22, 2017 8:13:50 GMT -5
I really don't see Aphids as OP at all. I bought a few, and find them very underwhelming. I mean, Gareths/Galahads are just too fast (and even if you connect, damages are minimal), Griffin can jump, Anciles stop Aphids... frankly there is not that many situations in which I can really say that Aphids are so efficient. On the opposite I'd say they are kinda useless in quite a lot of situations. If anything they'd need a little buf. True. Aphids are so predictable. Any bot that has speed >40 can easily minimize (or completely avoid) aphid damage. I think the most used bots that have trouble with aphids are only Rhino and Leo I used to run 4 Aphids no my Patton but now i put him in storage. And not to mention the buggy flight animation of the missiles.
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SiłentButĐeadły
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Post by SiłentButĐeadły on Apr 22, 2017 8:16:04 GMT -5
Seriously? If they do nerf Aphids I'm going to be pissed off to the max. They took away my geps, messed up match making and now they might nerf the best weapon that I use? The part that really gets me steamed is that I spent 6000 in gold for geps. Then they make them completely useless. I've spent 4500 in gold for my aphids and now they want to make them useless? If the geps and Aphids cost silver, so be it, but why are they going to charge US gold that is hard enough to come by and then basically pull the carpet out from under us. Man I'm getting sick of this crap.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2017 8:16:19 GMT -5
Yea, I give up when I see a Patton Aphid. I can lose 2 or 3 bots to one. One! 1!
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Post by ou812gr8m8 on Apr 22, 2017 8:26:03 GMT -5
Seriously? If they do nerf Aphids I'm going to be pissed off to the max. They took away my geps, messed up match making and now they might nerf the best weapon that I use? The part that really gets me steamed is that I spent 6000 in gold for geps. Then they make them completely useless. I've spent 4500 in gold for my aphids and now they want to make them useless? If the geps and Aphids cost silver, so be it, but why are they going to charge US gold that is hard enough to come by and then basically pull the carpet out from under us. Man I'm getting sick of this crap. .. so you spend more...
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ionflow
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Post by ionflow on Apr 22, 2017 8:26:28 GMT -5
I really don't see Aphids as OP at all. I bought a few, and find them very underwhelming. I mean, Gareths/Galahads are just too fast (and even if you connect, damages are minimal), Griffin can jump, Anciles stop Aphids... frankly there is not that many situations in which I can really say that Aphids are so efficient. On the opposite I'd say they are kinda useless in quite a lot of situations. If anything they'd need a little buf. Breaking news! Rockets can be dodged by fast bots and don't penetrate anciles! Next week, a hard hitting investigation: is plasma effective against physical shields? You won't believe what experts tell us!
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Post by boomsplat on Apr 22, 2017 8:34:22 GMT -5
Aphids are still effective, just not as effective as they once were. I'm not understanding how anyone can say they don't work against an ancille or shielded bot - they are, it just takes more shots to kill the red bots off. I use aphids and a thunder to kill ancelots and carnages in close quarters....just have to keep that shield knocked back with the thunder.
Aphids have been already nerfed in two ways: 1) directly by loosening their spread and flattening their trajectory so they have a harder time against physical shield bots and 2) indirectly by the speed buffs to many bots.
If anyone is saying they need to be nerfed even more, that is pathetic as they are a light Gold wep....they should be better.
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Post by The VVatcher on Apr 22, 2017 8:46:52 GMT -5
No one is saying they need to be nerfed. But Pixonic is going to anyway. Stupid.
The aphids don't need a buff. And they absolutely don't need a nerf.
To Pixonic: why don't you get rid of all the small weapons already. Let's all just use medium weapons, specifically tarans and orkans. Go look at your own legends league. Look at your new bots. Notice a pattern yet?
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SiłentButĐeadły
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Post by SiłentButĐeadły on Apr 22, 2017 8:53:35 GMT -5
Seriously? If they do nerf Aphids I'm going to be pissed off to the max. They took away my geps, messed up match making and now they might nerf the best weapon that I use? The part that really gets me steamed is that I spent 6000 in gold for geps. Then they make them completely useless. I've spent 4500 in gold for my aphids and now they want to make them useless? If the geps and Aphids cost silver, so be it, but why are they going to charge US gold that is hard enough to come by and then basically pull the carpet out from under us. Man I'm getting sick of this crap. .. so you spend more... I refuse to spend any money on this game at all. Ive spent a couple of bucks here and there in the past, but nowhere near to what I read some players have spent. I earn ALL of my gold and silver. Ever since the new MM I decided to not give Pix one nickle.
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Ostrava
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Post by Ostrava on Apr 22, 2017 9:19:30 GMT -5
I usually start matches with a Rhino/Leo, and of late, I'm getting crippled by Aphids (Gepards/Pattons) especially on Dead City and Powerplant. What I do in these cases is immediately select the Carnage 2xThunders I have in my hangar (for precisely this scenario, or else I usually play it last) and hunt that bot down as quickly as I can. 80-90% of the time, with a tactical approach, I can destroy them with minimal damage to myself. Anyhow, I feel Aphids are overpowered as light weapons. I mean, the machine guns, even with the 3 second fire rate boost, are still massively underpowered. Now you have the advent of the Dash Mk2 with its OP jump ability and energy shield, so I don't know how long Aphids will be this effective, but they need a nerf as of now, in my opinion.
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Post by FRΞΞDØM☆F1GHTΞR on Apr 22, 2017 9:20:12 GMT -5
Yea, I give up when I see a Patton Aphid. I can lose 2 or 3 bots to one. One! 1! Tip: Plasmahad can dodge Aphids and destroy a Patton real quick. It takes 10 seconds for Aphids to reload, which is plenty of time to take down an unarmed Patton. Aphids are not OP. If they're new to you, the trick is to be aware of their presence and make every effort to avoid them. They can easily be avoided in mediums or lights by running sideways to their flight path. Other techniques include hugging a wall, hiding under cover, or glueing yourself to a friendly Ancilot. In fact, the best way to counter them, is to get a couple and learn their capabilities. They're not a magic as they seem. Aphids were nerfed not too long ago. They were a little OP then, but seem to be spot on now.
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Post by llama4president on Apr 22, 2017 10:03:42 GMT -5
For me they do too much Burst damage for a no-Los weapon.
IMHO every weapons that lets u stay hidden in cover, and shoot safely, should have always less damage than a direct Los weapon.
Not only they can overcome Los, but they can overcome even elevation differences (see yam or moon).
In my mind the balance should always be:
direct los sustained fire > direct los burst fire > direct los slow splash > direct los burst splash > indirect Los sustained fire > indirect Los burst fire
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Post by GuitarGuy on Apr 22, 2017 10:26:21 GMT -5
In almost a year of playing and seeing Aphids and now anciles being buffed because of slow sales and making them OP AF to sell piles of them, Only to wait for the player base to complain, then hear Pix say " gosh, they really are too strong" and bring them down to there original pre buff specs is just a money grab plain and simple.
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Post by Thunderkiss on Apr 22, 2017 10:36:00 GMT -5
Aphids are absolutely fine the way they are. Any further nerfs will render them unusable. If you are having trouble with being on the receiving end, you're doing it wrong and need to learn the term "cover" and stop being suicidal, because if aphids give you trouble then EVERYTHING is giving you trouble, it's not the aphid.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2017 10:39:14 GMT -5
I feel Aphids are very balanced now; a deadly, short version of a Hydra.
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Post by loren on Apr 22, 2017 10:48:25 GMT -5
In almost a year of playing and seeing Aphids and now anciles being buffed because of slow sales and making them OP AF to sell piles of them, Only to wait for the player base to complain, then hear Pix say " gosh, they really are too strong" and bring them down to there original pre buff specs is just a money grab plain and simple. Getting a little tired of this trend as well. To add to the aphids issue, mounting them to a Galahad or Leo gives you 1 exploding on launch. I was excited about the Rog buff, but then remembered the nerf they took as well. Got burned three times now, Rog, Gepard and Aphid. To see a further reduction of the Aphid usefulness is a sure event to shelve them. If they do nerf it further, it should be an Ag cost weapon.
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zigzak0110
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Post by zigzak0110 on Apr 22, 2017 10:53:20 GMT -5
In paper they are quite powerful. But there are many things should be taken into consider when playing in actual battle: .As long as you are moving, depend on your speed, a few or a lot of missiles will miss your bot. .The missiles can hit obstacles on their way to you, further reduce their potential. .If aphid users stand close to a building, before firing they have to expose themself to make sure all of the missiles will not hit that building, or else the 2 lower aphids will most likely be useless. Good pilots will know when will they move out of hiding to shoot. .Dead City and Power Plant map in theory are good for aphids but they also provide lots of cover for the enemy, Shenzen may be their best playground. .They can use the elevation mechanic of aphids on Yanmatau and Moon Base but these 2 maps also have very little cover for aphids to hide while waiting for reloading. Players can either drop down (Yan) or jump (Moon) and melt them. .Most of the time when aphids deal massive damage to your bot is when you are distracted while fighting others. In this scenario, aphids serves similarly as a support unit. And IMO, supporters with range <350 is already a punishment for them. .And last, if you are piloting a slow and unprotected bots, being eaten alive by aphids is the law of the game. They are GOLD weapons after all.
This is my personal experience about playing and dealing with aphids.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2017 11:45:30 GMT -5
Seriously, if you guys haven't listened to the meeting, you are doing your self a disservice.
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Post by War Child on Apr 22, 2017 11:51:43 GMT -5
zig zak,You said everything I wanted to say,but better.And yes,sometimes the aphid does definitely need line of sight to reach the target.Also take note that some of the best aphid carriers are underwhelming bots,like gep and patton.So I see no reason to buff them,nor a nerf.The ones saying aphids needs a buff,go learn to be patient,and to the ones saying they need a nerf,go buy a couple,and I guarantee you will take your words back.
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Post by War Child on Apr 22, 2017 11:55:14 GMT -5
Seriously, if you guys haven't listened to the meeting, you are doing your self a disservice. They WILL be needing it. The word gradually was used, and I believe, so was "significantly". so your saying is that they will be cycling buffs and nerfs until they find a sweet spot?ok
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2017 12:06:04 GMT -5
Seriously, if you guys haven't listened to the meeting, you are doing your self a disservice. They WILL be needing it. The word gradually was used, and I believe, so was "significantly". so your saying is that they will be cycling buffs and nerfs until they find a sweet spot?ok I am mistaken, must have heard wrong. N/A!
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Post by Dredd77 on Apr 22, 2017 12:08:24 GMT -5
Guys, I could be wrong, but as someone who attended and just relistened to that clip three times, it seems pretty clear to me that they were talking about strategy in the past. In other words, the 40% was what moved them to act, not the justification for a new buff. I haven't seen any other attendee report an incoming Aphid nerf.
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Post by sonofsam on Apr 22, 2017 12:13:43 GMT -5
Listening to the pixonic and players discussion the devs mention (@about 1:48:50) the aphids are overpowered and do about 40% more damage than other light weapons and say that was not their intent to do this and they pretty much say it has to be nurfed. I just bought 2 a few days ago and couldn't decided between 2 aphids or 1 orkan as I didn't have any, I'm kind of regretting the decision already. I might have to stop leveling them already (1 is level 8 and the other is level 5 at the moment on a level 6 griff) and go for pins instead. This makes 4 gold items I have saved for ages through 100s of hours of play to get that is of no use now, it would be nice if they give a option to refund gold for items that they change but it won't happen as they want to sell gold for cash. Thoughts and opinions? They didn't say they are going to be nerfed. They said that is the reason they nerfed them about the time the MM launched. I started on New year's day and apparently they had buffed them before I started. I actually have 6 or 8 of them and they decided to nerf them. Now I have a huge pile of silver in my hanger. Edit: How dare you Ninja post on me dredd77?
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Post by jckidd on Apr 22, 2017 12:19:23 GMT -5
They don't have to nerf the aphids. They will be reduced in efficiency through buffing other items... Bots in particular. Look at the rog buff that is already gone active. They game is getting faster folks, and thereby decreasing effectiveness of aphids. I also see it hitting my db griffin. My orkin rog is more effective now with all the gareth and galahads on the field. Has more survivability, nearly the hp pool, and still has good ability to damage. I switched to a punisher griffin and stay out at 350-400 to counter plasma with it now. The game evolves, so must we or be left behind ?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2017 13:07:31 GMT -5
Guys, I could be wrong, but as someone who attended and just relistened to that clip three times, it seems pretty clear to me that they were talking about strategy in the past. In other words, the 40% was what moved them to act, not the justification for a new buff. I haven't seen any other attendee report an incoming Aphid nerf. I listened to it again, and that part seems different. It was very late, when I listened to it the first time. Must be mistaken. We really need a post delete option
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Post by Dredd77 on Apr 22, 2017 13:12:40 GMT -5
+DethHilt+ I'm gonna lock this thread. No sense letting misinformation float about.
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