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Post by mijapi300 on Apr 19, 2017 13:27:56 GMT -5
This is just a copy/paste of a comment I made on a different thread, but I wanted to post it as it's own thread to make it easier to find for anyone interested. Keep in mind these are using values as of 4/18/2017, and may not be accurate after future updates, or meta changes.
Also, out of interest, I added a poll to figure out how much you think would be a fair price for a maxed hangar. Keep in mind, Pixonic is a free market company. They need to earn revenue to keep the game running. You can also use other games as an example to back up your choice.
Original post:
Just did some calculations on the true cash cost of a maxed hangar from scratch. The endgame meta hangars vary, so I used the following:
Ancile-Taran-Lancelot
Thunder-Orkan-Lancelot
Taran-Magnum-Galahad
Orkan-Aphid Griffin
Orkan-Piñata-Griffin
This is for getting a maxed 12/12 hangar instantly.
This is the cost in each metric for a 12/12 hangar:
1,114,761,000 Ag
29,200 Au
24,450 WSP
440,259 minutes of upgrade time
Conversion for workshop points was assumed at 2 Au per WSP due to the increasing cost. It's probably actually higher than that. The conversion for time is assumed at 2.33 minutes per Au, based off a current upgrade I have going. Silver is obviously converted at 18,500 Au per 50,000,000 Ag.
The TOTAL Au cost of buying a 12/12 hangar from scratch is estimated at 679,514. This works out to $4,850+ to purchase that much Au. This also doesn't factor in when this specific hangar becomes irrelevant through future game balance adjustments. So who knows how long you'll have the endgame meta.
I believe based on this, items and premium currency is heavily overpriced in this game. This could be mitigated by some of the suggestions above, such as frequent "deals" to get people to buy things at a discounted price. Another way to help would be adjusting the Au to Ag exchange rate. The $132 it costs to buy 50,000,000 Ag is absurd. That doesn't even cover the cost of leveling two weapons to level 12. It's unimaginable to spend almost $5k on a mobile game to get the best hangar, when it's guaranteed to not be the best hangar for more than couple months.
Take this with a grain of salt. The overall mood of the post doesn't reflect how I feel about the game, but rather how I feel about premium prices in game only. I like the game overall, the IAPs are just horribly valued.
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Post by Team Alpha Strike on Apr 19, 2017 13:39:15 GMT -5
Where is the option for "Hey, my time is money"?
Grinding is the the substitute for real money. I can afford $500, but everything you want short if the event bots are available with just a small amount of play and the passage of time.
Wouldn't a better poll be ---- how much real money would you pay for all the Event Bots you now want?
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Post by mijapi300 on Apr 19, 2017 14:20:12 GMT -5
Team Alpha Strike the poll is more about a maxed end-game hangar, right now. The event bots aren't out yet, and there's no way of telling where or even if they would fit in the endgame hangar. Time is money, yes, and that could and should be factored in to how much you'd be willing to spend. It would take approximately 305 days to acquire a 5 bot maxed hangar. You'd also have to play at least 10-15 games per day every single day to earn the silver required to upgrade everything. Assuming it would take at least 2 hours a day to do this, it would take a minimum of 710 active hours of playing. So in effect, saying you'd only spend $500 and no more means that your time is worth about $0.70 when you're also receiving entertainment during that time. Just some food for thought.
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Post by sharpmango on Apr 19, 2017 14:26:10 GMT -5
I wish free to play games were designed more for ordinary people who can afford to pay, rather than for the super rich.
I have Netflix, I have Amazon Prime, I'm happy to pay for my entertainment. I don't mind the premium option for War Robots. I do however wish it was a better proposition than it actually is.
Furthermore the gold and silver real money prices are genuinely ridiculous. There has to be a better metric here. I mean is 500 gold really worth £5? Considering the Lancelot costs 5000 and that doesn't even get you any upgrades.
Long story short: I'd rather games were aimed at the Netflix crowd, rather than at the 'my daddy is an oil baron' crowd...Why aim at the 1% when a sizable percentage of of us are of working age and able to pay?
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Post by sonofsam on Apr 19, 2017 14:38:29 GMT -5
I wish free to play games were designed more for ordinary people who can afford to pay, rather than for the super rich. I have Netflix, I have Amazon Prime, I'm happy to pay for my entertainment. I don't mind the premium option for War Robots. I do however wish it was a better proposition than it actually is. Furthermore the gold and silver real money prices are genuinely ridiculous. There has to be a better metric here. I mean is 500 gold really worth £5? Considering the Lancelot costs 5000 and that doesn't even get you any upgrades. Long story short: I'd rather games were aimed at the Netflix crowd, rather than at the 'my daddy is an oil baron' crowd...Why aim at the 1% when a sizable percentage of of us are of working age and able to pay? If the Lance cost $5 it would be cheap enough everyone would have several. This makes the game pay to win because then you have to reach into your pocket or you will get blasted. I feel making gold bots $25-50 is a fair balance. It can be obtained now but not everyone is going to spend that kind of money to get it. The skins are a completely different matter because they offer no advantage. If they dropped them to $5 and made them a real money only option it would create a gold mine for them. |
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Post by mijapi300 on Apr 19, 2017 14:38:39 GMT -5
sharpmango I agree but think there should be a balance. While I feel the endgame hangar is currently overpriced, I do think it should cost around $1500 to obtain. Where they completely whiff is the lack of deals. Most games charge a ridiculous amount (1000-1500) for max everything. But they also have periodic deals. I was shocked when the newbie deal (Gepard and 30 gold per day for a month) was not replaced with a new deal after the timer ran out. Deals like that are not only satisfying to many people, but also create an incredible amount of impulse purchases. I think something like $19.99 for a Galahad and 2,000 Au would be great. And I believe deals like this should refresh once a week into a new one.
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Post by Team Alpha Strike on Apr 19, 2017 14:40:25 GMT -5
Team Alpha Strike the poll is more about a maxed end-game hangar, right now. The event bots aren't out yet, and there's no way of telling where or even if they would fit in the endgame hangar. Time is money, yes, and that could and should be factored in to how much you'd be willing to spend. It would take approximately 305 days to acquire a 5 bot maxed hangar. You'd also have to play at least 10-15 games per day every single day to earn the silver required to upgrade everything. Assuming it would take at least 2 hours a day to do this, it would take a minimum of 710 active hours of playing. So in effect, saying you'd only spend $500 and no more means that your time is worth about $0.70 when you're also receiving entertainment during that time. Just some food for thought. I enjoyed my 2 years on this game. My time passed on the game whatever hangar I had and enjoyment was based on the level of my hangar, so buying up 12/12 gear never made sense to me. I also don't value my time in such a way that I put a dollar amount on stuff I like doing when I wouldn't have been doing anything else anyhow. I mean, this game isn't so captivating that it causes you to let other things in life slip --- right? There are games you can't put down, but this is thankfully isn't one of them (it's one of reason I like the game - because it doesn't consume you). Anyhow, a question like "Do you think having a maxed hangar instantly make you happy and play the game more" is more apt. If I had a maxed hangar, it wouldn't change a thing. |
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Post by sonofsam on Apr 19, 2017 14:45:49 GMT -5
sharpmango I agree but think there should be a balance. While I feel the endgame hangar is currently overpriced, I do think it should cost around $1500 to obtain. Where they completely whiff is the lack of deals. Most games charge a ridiculous amount (1000-1500) for max everything. But they also have periodic deals. I was shocked when the newbie deal (Gepard and 30 gold per day for a month) was not replaced with a new deal after the timer ran out. Deals like that are not only satisfying to many people, but also create an incredible amount of impulse purchases. I think something like $19.99 for a Galahad and 2,000 Au would be great. And I believe deals like this should refresh once a week into a new one. I was surprised when another deal didn't pop up as well. I, like a lot of people, passed on the deal thinking "I'm not giving you money for a game I don't know if I'll like. I'll catch a deal in a week or two if I decide I like the game". I think " weekly deals" would be great This week 5k gold $40 Next week Galahad $15 Ect. |
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Post by Team Alpha Strike on Apr 19, 2017 14:45:56 GMT -5
It occurred to me that the "real cost" of some games are your job, your finances, your friends, etc.
IMO, this game isn't addictive to the point where it's toxic to real life --- which is one reason I like it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2017 14:47:53 GMT -5
sharpmango I agree but think there should be a balance. While I feel the endgame hangar is currently overpriced, I do think it should cost around $1500 to obtain. Where they completely whiff is the lack of deals. Most games charge a ridiculous amount (1000-1500) for max everything. But they also have periodic deals. I was shocked when the newbie deal (Gepard and 30 gold per day for a month) was not replaced with a new deal after the timer ran out. Deals like that are not only satisfying to many people, but also create an incredible amount of impulse purchases. I think something like $19.99 for a Galahad and 2,000 Au would be great. And I believe deals like this should refresh once a week into a new one. I was surprised when another deal didn't pop up as well. I, like a lot of people, passed on the deal thinking "I'm not giving you money for a game I don't know if I'll like. I'll catch a deal in a week or two if I decide I like the game". I think " weekly deals" would be great This week 5k gold $40 Next week Galahad $15 Ect. And this is when War Robots starts look pay to win. |
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Post by sonofsam on Apr 19, 2017 14:56:31 GMT -5
I was surprised when another deal didn't pop up as well. I, like a lot of people, passed on the deal thinking "I'm not giving you money for a game I don't know if I'll like. I'll catch a deal in a week or two if I decide I like the game". I think " weekly deals" would be great This week 5k gold $40 Next week Galahad $15 Ect. And this is when War Robots starts look pay to win. This is when they make money because of perceived value. A Galahad costing $15 instead of $20 for one week doesn't change the number of Galahads by much because it is still a lot to spend on a digital possession (and really $20 isnt much harder for most people to come up with than 15)but if it goes on sale and gives a perceived value people who were questioning buying it are more likely to actually pay that week. The point is that it isn't going to make more people suddenly buy things its going to sway people who were thinking about it anyway. |
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Post by mijapi300 on Apr 19, 2017 15:13:36 GMT -5
I was surprised when another deal didn't pop up as well. I, like a lot of people, passed on the deal thinking "I'm not giving you money for a game I don't know if I'll like. I'll catch a deal in a week or two if I decide I like the game". I think " weekly deals" would be great This week 5k gold $40 Next week Galahad $15 Ect. And this is when War Robots starts look pay to win. Not really. This would only be the case if something for real money was overpowered. The only bot that is overpowered is the Ancilot. And it's not so much overpowered, and isn't a problem until the top tiers, where it becomes whichever team has the most ancilots wins. Weekly deals, as long as the game remains balanced, would do nothing but increase revenue and perceived satisfaction. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2017 15:16:26 GMT -5
And this is when War Robots starts look pay to win. Not really. This would only be the case if something for real money was overpowered. The only bot that is overpowered is the Ancilot. And it's not so much overpowered, and isn't a problem until the top tiers, where it becomes whichever team has the most ancilots wins. Weekly deals, as long as the game remains balanced, would do nothing but increase revenue and perceived satisfaction. It would LOOK pay to win. Any game that I see have any sort of weekly 'bundles' or special 'offers' looks like a money grabbing game. Currently War Robots is not in that state. |
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Post by zer00eyz on Apr 19, 2017 15:16:48 GMT -5
And this is when War Robots starts look pay to win. This is when they make money because of perceived value. A Galahad costing $15 instead of $20 for one week doesn't change the number of Galahads by much because it is still a lot to spend on a digital possession (and really $20 isnt much harder for most people to come up with than 15)but if it goes on sale and gives a perceived value people who were questioning buying it are more likely to actually pay that week. The point is that it isn't going to make more people suddenly buy things its going to sway people who were thinking about it anyway. The problem with the "sale" is that your going to sell something to someone that is "unusable" as is.... Amazon figured out a long time ago that longer shipping times are a deterrent... Buying a galahad and waiting 9 days to use it, or spending more on gold to get it to level 9 dramatically changes the cost of the bot or the satisfaction from it. Buy a level 9 Galahad for $15 would be a solid offer because it has use for a lot of people out of the gate or is an instant gain to their league standing. |
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Post by mijapi300 on Apr 19, 2017 15:18:44 GMT -5
Team Alpha Strike the poll is more about a maxed end-game hangar, right now. The event bots aren't out yet, and there's no way of telling where or even if they would fit in the endgame hangar. Time is money, yes, and that could and should be factored in to how much you'd be willing to spend. It would take approximately 305 days to acquire a 5 bot maxed hangar. You'd also have to play at least 10-15 games per day every single day to earn the silver required to upgrade everything. Assuming it would take at least 2 hours a day to do this, it would take a minimum of 710 active hours of playing. So in effect, saying you'd only spend $500 and no more means that your time is worth about $0.70 when you're also receiving entertainment during that time. Just some food for thought. I enjoyed my 2 years on this game. My time passed on the game whatever hangar I had and enjoyment was based on the level of my hangar, so buying up 12/12 gear never made sense to me. I also don't value my time in such a way that I put a dollar amount on stuff I like doing when I wouldn't have been doing anything else anyhow. I mean, this game isn't so captivating that it causes you to let other things in life slip --- right? There are games you can't put down, but this is thankfully isn't one of them (it's one of reason I like the game - because it doesn't consume you). Anyhow, a question like "Do you think having a maxed hangar instantly make you happy and play the game more" is more apt. If I had a maxed hangar, it wouldn't change a thing. I understand that's how you value your time, but others value it differently, so you can't project the same valuation system on everyone. I personally value it as "is advancing quicker in the game worth my real money?" If yes, I'll buy something. If not, I won't. The time I spend on the game is of little value, because I play this game in my free time. If I wasn't playing, I'd be doing something else for pure enjoyment. I also have no kids, and I play when my wife is at work, so I'm not infringing on time I could be spending with someone important. Some people, however, earn a lot of money outside of their day job. They'll do side projects or contract work in their free time. Those types of people are more likely to assign an opportunity cost to their time. And it would make much more sense for them to spring for an ultimate hangar if that's what their ultimate goal is. That's really the point of this poll and the discussion. To find out what different people want and how they value premium purchases. |
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Post by mijapi300 on Apr 19, 2017 15:21:16 GMT -5
Not really. This would only be the case if something for real money was overpowered. The only bot that is overpowered is the Ancilot. And it's not so much overpowered, and isn't a problem until the top tiers, where it becomes whichever team has the most ancilots wins. Weekly deals, as long as the game remains balanced, would do nothing but increase revenue and perceived satisfaction. It would LOOK pay to win. Any game that I see have any sort of weekly 'bundles' or special 'offers' looks like a money grabbing game. Currently War Robots is not in that state. Oh okay, I misread your point. That is true. It would appear more in line with those games that you seemingly have to pay to keep up. I'm not sure if that's a deterrent or not to new players, as I don't have access to those statistics. Some of the most active and highest grossing apps on the market have this type of deal structure, so on the surface I'd say it probably does more to draw people and keep them active than it does the other way around. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2017 15:29:53 GMT -5
It would LOOK pay to win. Any game that I see have any sort of weekly 'bundles' or special 'offers' looks like a money grabbing game. Currently War Robots is not in that state. Oh okay, I misread your point. That is true. It would appear more in line with those games that you seemingly have to pay to keep up. I'm not sure if that's a deterrent or not to new players, as I don't have access to those statistics. Some of the most active and highest grossing apps on the market have this type of deal structure, so on the surface I'd say it probably does more to draw people and keep them active than it does the other way around. It's a deterrent to some. Personally, I don't like to play and see those games that have a "Buy this ...... for 4.99" every time. |
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