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Post by zer00eyz on Apr 18, 2017 15:22:27 GMT -5
There are some issues I see repeated often when talking about new MM: - League MM keeps me at a 50% win rate.
- I miss bot XXXX in the current meta. Brick fighting comes to mind, but there are others.
- It is hard to play with clan mates in different League Levels
- The meta is boring and narrow
- Matches that you can’t win: Tankers, over leveled players, people being jerks, MM throwing you to the sharks.
The whole conversation has been colored by the IOS happy place vs the Android hell pit dichotomy we have. Dredd77 gave a high level description of his IOS diamond hanger, and I thought to myself that I can barely stay in android gold with the same gear. There are other things that we really haven’t discussed as a community: - All the bots and weapons we have are buffed/nerfed for the old MM. (Pix seems to be slowly changing this, punishers/molots, rogatka, proposed missile changes).
- All the pricing (cash value) is based on the OLD MM.
- Weapons and bot leveling is priced in time for the old MM (also a bigger deal and maybe a bigger android problem).
- Pix needs to make money. It is a business and they need to keep the lights on, the servers running, and the engineers fed.
What were the problems with the old MM? Well Gepard clubbing was one, but at least it was contained and only impacted a small group of players. The one we don’t think about is one that only PIX would have seen: how money flows into that system! Each tier in the old MM was a plateau, You could max out a hanger for “silver", and stay there. You could collect rewards, have a high win rate, and lots of satisfaction fairly easily. If you can be a Gepard clubber, or the "king of silver tier with a high win rate" what incentive do you have to make a continued FINANCIAL investment in the game? Satisfied players don’t need to make ongoing cash investments! By throwing us all in the same pool, people are experiencing dissatisfaction because there isn’t a path to be a “winner” (Over 50% win rate) without making that investment My guess is that the majority of revenue in the old system came from sales (how many gepards got sold to farm gold?), or from players blending earned gold and items with purchases (I’m 1/2 way to an XXX but 10 bucks will get me over the top let me do that). ————————————————— The harsh reality is this, hanger based MM probably doesn’t have the ROI potential that a working league system would! It also pushes pix back into the buff/nerf change the rules business that they don’t want to be in. These rules that make make it hard to add new bots, and new maps, without chasing their tail on rules changes and pissing someone off. However the prices, and the time involved are optimizations for the old system. It seems to be geared toward one off high dollar purchases from a small percentage of the players rather than smaller sum’s from a larger number. The current distribution of rare rewards (gold) encourages bad behavior, and skews the meaning of “winning” (top 3 + beacon capture all all that really matter). The system is frustrating, and it needs to be to get you to spend, but not to the tune of several hundred dollars... What can pix do to “fix” some of these issues? - Sales: let me buy meta bots directly for cash at a discount more frequently, a $0.99 sale on skins would net gobs of money.
- Change how things level (24 or 36 levels, keep the damage at the top and bottom the same, the total time the same but dole out smaller gains more frequently). Make the late game curve look much less steep!
- Adjust gold reward distribution, double it for premium players (one gold for each winner, 2 gold on premium, lots of things you could do here)… the outsized value on placing first is having a negative impact
- Are light/medum/unlmited leagues viable? It would create fewer dead ends (bring back the boa and brick fighting). It would make balancing interesting, and break up a bit of the meta.
- Incentivize clan/squad play: 1~2 gold per match raise the cap to 20 or 50 a day…
- Re-align MM scoring to better sort on damage: This may be harder, but an adjustment to rewards for being on the winning team (gold) and lessoning the hurt for loosing (league loss) might make sense.
- Provide the missing insights we sort of need in a league system based on ELO (are we points starving, inflating, deflating, make the dam thing a bit more transparent in that regard).
- For the love of god, fix the new player experience: noobs should be protected and nurtured not tossed to wolves before their ready! A "light league", might give them a bit more opportunity to hang on to some of those early bots!
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Post by SlowReflexes on Apr 18, 2017 15:59:53 GMT -5
I occasionally find myself with small amounts of 'leftover' Play Store credit. A $.99 skin sale would be just about right for Pix to hoover that credit right out of my account.
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Post by SlowReflexes on Apr 18, 2017 16:14:17 GMT -5
Now you've got me thinking. Is Pix's minimum purchase amount set too high?
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Post by zer00eyz on Apr 18, 2017 18:09:57 GMT -5
Now you've got me thinking. Is Pix's minimum purchase amount set too high? Lets look at an optimal purchase rather than the low end: What if I drop $100 for a pair of lances and the anciles to go on them? Another $100 gets you a furry, some orkins, zeuses, and probably enough left over for a Galahad... Time to pay for upgrades (I don't even want to try and do the math there). Looking at another mobile game LOL, 500 bucks buys you all the champions: 70 of them. I think that the price is on par with other games, but I don't think that the quantity is on par with others -- the individual items might be over valued.
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Post by mijapi300 on Apr 18, 2017 19:34:23 GMT -5
Just did some calculations on the true cash cost of a maxed hangar from scratch. The endgame meta hangars vary, so I used the following: Ancile-Taran-Lancelot Thunder-Orkan-Lancelot Taran-Magnum-Galahad Orkan-Aphid Griffin Orkan-Piñata-Griffin This is for getting a maxed 12/12 hangar instantly.
This is the cost in each metric for a 12/12 hangar: 1,114,761,000 Ag 29,200 Au 24,450 WSP 440,259 minutes of upgrade time
Conversion for workshop points was assumed at 2 Au per WSP due to the increasing cost. It's probably actually higher than that. The conversion for time is assumed at 2.33 minutes per Au, based off a current upgrade I have going. Silver is obviously converted at 18,500 Au per 50,000,000 Ag.
The TOTAL Au cost of buying a 12/12 hangar from scratch is estimated at 679,514. This works out to $4,850+ to purchase that much Au. This also doesn't factor in when this specific hangar becomes irrelevant through future game balance adjustments. So who knows how long you'll have the endgame meta.
I believe based on this, items and premium currency is heavily overpriced in this game. This could be mitigated by some of the suggestions above, such as frequent "deals" to get people to buy things at a discounted price. Another way to help would be adjusting the Au to Ag exchange rate. The $132 it costs to buy 50,000,000 Ag is absurd. That doesn't even cover the cost of leveling two weapons to level 12. It's unimaginable to spend almost $5k on a mobile game to get the best hangar, when it's guaranteed to not be the best hangar for more than couple months.
Take this with a grain of salt. The overall mood of the post doesn't reflect how I feel about the game, but rather how I feel about premium prices in game only. I like the game overall, the IAPs are just horribly valued.
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Post by zer00eyz on Apr 18, 2017 19:41:55 GMT -5
</snip> It's unimaginable to spend almost $5k on a mobile game to get the best hangar, when it's guaranteed to not be the best hangar for more than couple months. Take this with a grain of salt. The overall mood of the post doesn't reflect how I feel about the game, but rather how I feel about premium prices in game only. I like the game overall, the IAPs are just horribly valued. Thanks for doing the math on that! I know I brought up LOL earlier, but IM going to point out this: www.techinasia.com/the-true-cost-of-league-of-legends-compared-by-region-infographicIt isn't just the cost, it is what the cost buys you --- $500 in LOL gets you 78 champions... 6.50 per "item"... you can't buy anything for 6.50 in War Robots...
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Post by spawnreaper on Apr 18, 2017 19:52:59 GMT -5
I completely agree with op.
The thing that kills me is there were awesome suggestions in this forum how to fix mm and pixonic ignored them. This would have created the most awesome play making and gameplay on android.
As for making money pixonic could have asked us how to do it instead of extorting players. There are a lot of good models for sales that work better than what they have.
As a result they created a pay to win game with lacking gameplay.....someday I hope to wake up and it turns out to be just a bad dream.
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Post by zer00eyz on Apr 18, 2017 20:06:31 GMT -5
I completely agree with op. The thing that kills me is there were awesome suggestions in this forum how to fix mm and pixonic ignored them. This would have created the most awesome play making and gameplay on android. As for making money pixonic could have asked us how to do it instead of extorting players. There are a lot of good models for sales that work better than what they have. As a result they created a pay to win game with lacking gameplay.....someday I hope to wake up and it turns out to be just a bad dream. You still don't have to pay to win, but the current MM is "dissatisfying" (possibly intentionally), and the cost is a "hangover" from a different model it seems...
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Post by spawnreaper on Apr 18, 2017 20:34:26 GMT -5
I completely agree with op. The thing that kills me is there were awesome suggestions in this forum how to fix mm and pixonic ignored them. This would have created the most awesome play making and gameplay on android. As for making money pixonic could have asked us how to do it instead of extorting players. There are a lot of good models for sales that work better than what they have. As a result they created a pay to win game with lacking gameplay.....someday I hope to wake up and it turns out to be just a bad dream. You still don't have to pay to win, but the current MM is "dissatisfying" (possibly intentionally), and the cost is a "hangover" from a different model it seems... It's more than a model its square one of one. We have a two year wait to catch up to other games lvl of model though. Good news is they are still aware of the ongoing tanking and sealclubbing problems. I'm sure pixonic will be aware of them two years from now as well.
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Post by anjian on Apr 18, 2017 22:51:19 GMT -5
Get used to it.
This kind of matchmaking, aimed to leveling win rates, has become pretty common in many games such as World of Warships, World of Tanks and Overwatch.
The only difference is how responsive the matchmaker should swing to your favor. In any case, it should not be responding by the time you reach 40%. It needs to put you on a better team the moment you drop to 49%.
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Post by zer00eyz on Apr 18, 2017 23:35:23 GMT -5
Get used to it. This kind of matchmaking, aimed to leveling win rates, has become pretty common in many games such as World of Warships, World of Tanks and Overwatch. The only difference is how responsive the matchmaker should swing to your favor. In any case, it should not be responding by the time you reach 40%. It needs to put you on a better team the moment you drop to 49%. I dont ojbect to the 50% win rate... It is a byproduct of the model. Some folks don't get that and look at the stat as carrying more meaning than it does. I like that you brought up WOT... 400 odd tanks in game... with prices far removed from ours... Similar model but rarity/scarcity on some tanks, and tons of options to be had at a lower price point...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2017 1:59:49 GMT -5
Get used to it. This kind of matchmaking, aimed to leveling win rates, has become pretty common in many games such as World of Warships, World of Tanks and Overwatch. The only difference is how responsive the matchmaker should swing to your favor. In any case, it should not be responding by the time you reach 40%. It needs to put you on a better team the moment you drop to 49%. Don't have to. Gets bad enough, or continues, some can always leave.
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Post by anjian on Apr 19, 2017 2:29:36 GMT -5
Get used to it. This kind of matchmaking, aimed to leveling win rates, has become pretty common in many games such as World of Warships, World of Tanks and Overwatch. The only difference is how responsive the matchmaker should swing to your favor. In any case, it should not be responding by the time you reach 40%. It needs to put you on a better team the moment you drop to 49%. Don't have.to. Gershwin bad enough, or continues, some can always leave. You can always leave the game...then land in another game that has it. Then remember, that I said, I told you so. To be honest, I have a lot of people complaining about brutal losing streaks, and hearing it in this game is all too familiar for anyone who also played World of Tanks or World of Warships.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2017 4:19:19 GMT -5
Don't have.to. Gershwin bad enough, or continues, some can always leave. You can always leave the game...then land in another game that has it. Then remember, that I said, I told you so. To be honest, I have a lot of people complaining about brutal losing streaks, and hearing it in this game is all too familiar for anyone who also played World of Tanks or World of Warships. If I leave this game, I will not likely pick up another. As far as the "I told you so", WTH, are you 12?
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Post by anjian on Apr 19, 2017 5:17:55 GMT -5
You can always leave the game...then land in another game that has it. Then remember, that I said, I told you so. To be honest, I have a lot of people complaining about brutal losing streaks, and hearing it in this game is all too familiar for anyone who also played World of Tanks or World of Warships. If I leave this game, I will not likely pick up another. As far as the "I told you so", WTH, are you 12? That's good. Well, not even Candy Crush?
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Post by frunobulax on Apr 19, 2017 8:37:52 GMT -5
What were the problems with the old MM? Well Gepard clubbing was one, but at least it was contained and only impacted a small group of players. The one we don’t think about is one that only PIX would have seen: how money flows into that system! [...] ————————————————— The harsh reality is this, hanger based MM probably doesn’t have the ROI potential that a working league system would! [...] What can pix do to “fix” some of these issues? - Sales: let me buy meta bots directly for cash at a discount more frequently, a $0.99 sale on skins would net gobs of money.
- Change how things level (24 or 36 levels, keep the damage at the top and bottom the same, the total time the same but dole out smaller gains more frequently). Make the late game curve look much less steep!
- Adjust gold reward distribution, double it for premium players (one gold for each winner, 2 gold on premium, lots of things you could do here)… the outsized value on placing first is having a negative impact
- Are light/medum/unlmited leagues viable? It would create fewer dead ends (bring back the boa and brick fighting). It would make balancing interesting, and break up a bit of the meta.
- Incentivize clan/squad play: 1~2 gold per match raise the cap to 20 or 50 a day…
- Re-align MM scoring to better sort on damage: This may be harder, but an adjustment to rewards for being on the winning team (gold) and lessoning the hurt for loosing (league loss) might make sense.
- Provide the missing insights we sort of need in a league system based on ELO (are we points starving, inflating, deflating, make the dam thing a bit more transparent in that regard).
- For the love of god, fix the new player experience: noobs should be protected and nurtured not tossed to wolves before their ready! A "light league", might give them a bit more opportunity to hang on to some of those early bots!
That's a very interesting observation. It is possible that Pixo went to a performance based matchmaking, because (a) clubbing would net you all the gold you needed without paying a dime, and (b) you could stay in a tier and be highly successful, without buying gold robots/weapons and purchasing premium to collect the silver necessary to upgrade hangars to 12. Of course, the new matchmaking offers the same mechanics. Is there an incentive to buy a shiny new robot or weapons? After all, this will only increase your rating by a few points and then you're back at a 50% win rate. Plus, it damages the game long term because it appears that players are playing less. (At least when looking at matches at off peak times, it seems that it is much harder to find players and there's a lot more rubberbanding going on.) If we would introduce the simple change of giving more silver and possibly gold depending on the strength of the matches (say, both scale with the average league of all 6 players of the opposing team), there would suddenly be an incentive to play in higher leagues, for which you need better equipment. But you would probably have to adjust costs of weapons and robots, which would cause major unrest with some players. (Either it is easier or harder for the new players to upgrade to 12.) However, I still think a hangar based matchmaking is the only good solution that allows squads of players with mixed levels (allowing stronger players to "dress down" to their clanmates), and allows changeup hangars. Maybe we could have a mix of both worlds, such that skill is a modifier to hangar score.
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Post by frunobulax on Apr 19, 2017 8:58:11 GMT -5
Get used to it. This kind of matchmaking, aimed to leveling win rates, has become pretty common in many games such as World of Warships, World of Tanks and Overwatch. The only difference is how responsive the matchmaker should swing to your favor. In any case, it should not be responding by the time you reach 40%. It needs to put you on a better team the moment you drop to 49%. Actually, no. Matchmaking and reward system go hand in hand in those games. You are rewarded for advancing in the rankings, and there is less incentive for tanking (even though tanking/clubbing happens in many games). My problem is that the new matchmaking solved no problems but created a bunch of new ones, that could really kill the game in the long term. I would agree to a performance based matchmaking, but only if the reward system is adjusted to create sufficient incentives to play in the highest league possible and to minimize the potential benefits of tanking. I suggested to introduce a new currency (we have silver and gold, let's call it diamonds) that is payed out depending on league advancement, and make new robots, weapons and possibly upgrades available for diamonds(either introduce new levels 13-15, or use it to upgrade diamond robots/weapons). Diamonds are payed out if you advance a league, and as a reward for every match (win or loss, loss pays half the diamonds) depending on your league. Say, a player averages 5 diamonds a game (depending on damage and beacons capped) in bronze league, and 50 diamonds in legend league. This way, existing currency wouldn't have to be touched, but the diamond stuff would create a strong incentive to rise in the leagues. (Note that players will receive 0 diamonds if they don't cap enough beacons and have not enough damage. We don't want skript kiddies and hackers acquiring diamonds, as it happened with the event currency.)
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[AurL] Valiant
Destrier
Posts: 101
Karma: 53
Pilot name: ValiantSr
Platform: Android
Clan: Aurora Luvenis
League: Diamond
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Griffin
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Post by [AurL] Valiant on Apr 19, 2017 9:48:04 GMT -5
There are other things that we really haven’t discussed as a community: - All the bots and weapons we have are buffed/nerfed for the old MM. (Pix seems to be slowly changing this, punishers/molots, rogatka, proposed missile changes).
- All the pricing (cash value) is based on the OLD MM.
- Weapons and bot leveling is priced in time for the old MM (also a bigger deal and maybe a bigger android problem).
- Pix needs to make money. It is a business and they need to keep the lights on, the servers running, and the engineers fed.
To the OP interesting thought - logical conclusion and well thought out and I agree on most points. Might I suggest a one different change though? You propose more Au per match but I would suggest we do the opposite - no Au for match reward. Now this would require some serious cost re-balancing which you are already proposing needs to take place anyway - I completely agree prices as shown in post above are too high. If we eliminate Au as a match reward we would seriously decrease the tanking issue (why tank when the incentive isn't there), also this would allow an increase in the daily objective rewards and possible number of objectives. At the same time rather then having stagnant daily rewards maybe we could gear these and the match rewards to the tier you are playing in (higher the tier bigger the rewards). This promotes a push to the top. Also I agree short term/limited time sales would be a good revenue stream currently there are only 1 or 2 I know of and they are only offered to new players to speed them through the entry levels. I would bite on a Galahad sale or maybe even a weapons bundle package for X$ you get two Orkans or X$ gets you a Taran and a Mag but only for a limited time. These sales would rotate and could be changed as the meta changes - what a way to introduce a new weapon or bot hey it's XX Au in the hanger or you can get one now for X$ but only for the first 24hrs from release. These type of things are generaly appealing and if done well would offer a reasonable value to the player base in the form of time saved. Also love the suggestion of micro sales for skins that were discussed above. A reduction in skin cost - I would also suggest a big picture view in creating skins. If they would design some themes for the skins for instance a skull theme skin for every bot (each skin different but in the same general theme) or a flames skin etc.. players could then create a preferred cohesive appearance across their hangers. A decreased skin cost with cohesive skins available for all bots should provide a general revenue increase and a more visually unique game experience. In a related thought why not provide a selection of clan crest which could be purchased by the members of a clan and would show on their hangers and bots? More coding but a thought to further add some visual identity to the bots you pilot and the clans you belong too.
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Post by zer00eyz on Apr 19, 2017 9:49:19 GMT -5
I suggested to introduce a new currency (we have silver and gold, let's call it diamonds) that is payed out depending on league advancement, and make new robots, weapons and possibly upgrades available for diamonds(either introduce new levels 13-15, or use it to upgrade diamond robots/weapons). Diamonds are payed out if you advance a league, and as a reward for every match (win or loss, loss pays half the diamonds) depending on your league. Say, a player averages 5 diamonds a game (depending on damage and beacons capped) in bronze league, and 50 diamonds in legend league. This way, existing currency wouldn't have to be touched, but the diamond stuff would create a strong incentive to rise in the leagues. (Note that players will receive 0 diamonds if they don't cap enough beacons and have not enough damage. We don't want skript kiddies and hackers acquiring diamonds, as it happened with the event currency.) You know I'm not sure how that would work. We already have problems of scarcity and cost, does adding another currency fix that? The cost of the game is high, but it isn't out of line with other games. The cost of the items is very high in relation to other games (maybe even excessive). I think allowing a deflation of gold would be a better fix (giving out more of it more frequently) vs introducing something "new".
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Post by zer00eyz on Apr 19, 2017 10:29:55 GMT -5
You propose more Au per match but I would suggest we do the opposite - no Au for match reward. Now this would require some serious cost re-balancing which you are already proposing needs to take place anyway - I completely agree prices as shown in post above are too high. If we eliminate Au as a match reward we would seriously decrease the tanking issue (why tank when the incentive isn't there), also this would allow an increase in the daily objective rewards and possible number of objectives. At the same time rather then having stagnant daily rewards maybe we could gear these and the match rewards to the tier you are playing in (higher the tier bigger the rewards). This promotes a push to the top. Also I agree short term/limited time sales would be a good revenue stream currently there are only 1 or 2 I know of and they are only offered to new players to speed them through the entry levels. I would bite on a Galahad sale or maybe even a weapons bundle package for X$ you get two Orkans or X$ gets you a Taran and a Mag but only for a limited time. These sales would rotate and could be changed as the meta changes - what a way to introduce a new weapon or bot hey it's XX Au in the hanger or you can get one now for X$ but only for the first 24hrs from release. These type of things are generaly appealing and if done well would offer a reasonable value to the player base in the form of time saved. Also love the suggestion of micro sales for skins that were discussed above. A reduction in skin cost - I would also suggest a big picture view in creating skins. If they would design some themes for the skins for instance a skull theme skin for every bot (each skin different but in the same general theme) or a flames skin etc.. players could then create a preferred cohesive appearance across their hangers. A decreased skin cost with cohesive skins available for all bots should provide a general revenue increase and a more visually unique game experience. In a related thought why not provide a selection of clan crest which could be purchased by the members of a clan and would show on their hangers and bots? More coding but a thought to further add some visual identity to the bots you pilot and the clans you belong too. Right now there is 14 Au per match... The rewards I'm suggesting from "regular play" are 8 au (maybe 10 on a 3 way beacon tie)... Doubling that for premium players brings it to 16-20, however that would mean a lot of paying customers, on the recurring revenue stream. Tweeting the "daily rewards" would be awesome as well... but again they are "on par" with other games so Im not sure what the outcome would be there. Sales are interesting, running sales, and running them more and more frequently lets you move a price down over time without pissing off your current customer base.... It is a tool, and could be an immediate cost offset and lure back paying players. More skins would be good. I don't think clan skins would are technically viable. Each of them would need to be added to the client, and be down loaded by everyone --- I don't think you can "side load" them into unity, I don't think you can "side load" them and not be in violation of some app store policies (or skirting them).
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Post by frunobulax on Apr 19, 2017 11:09:41 GMT -5
I suggested to introduce a new currency (we have silver and gold, let's call it diamonds) that is payed out depending on league advancement [...] You know I'm not sure how that would work. We already have problems of scarcity and cost, does adding another currency fix that? The cost of the game is high, but it isn't out of line with other games. The cost of the items is very high in relation to other games (maybe even excessive). I think allowing a deflation of gold would be a better fix (giving out more of it more frequently) vs introducing something "new". I'm just trying to give an option that doesn't involve the change of the gold/silver flow. If you make gold scarce in lower leagues, you disadvantage players that start the game now against players that have been playing for some time. And if moving up a league should be an incentive, there must be less gold in lower leagues. Now, even if you introduce new, very expensive gold robots (say 50k), you would make things much easier for former clubbers (who have a big stash of gold laying around) and players who already have a TT hangar and can spend all their gold on new robots. Silver, well, reducing silver in lower leagues would also disadvantage new players (and all silver/gold players that are 500-1000mil or more from their target hangar) to some degree. After all, that would mean even more grinding on your way to a TT hangar. So the only way to change the value system without screwing newer players is to introduce a new currency. That's always the problem, it's pretty hard to do a major change to a value system. Mind you, I think it's only the second best (or third best) option to introduce a new currency. My #1 solution would be to go back to a hangar based matchmaking, that is smarter and protects noobs better than the old system.
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Post by Scuzzbopper on Apr 19, 2017 11:14:37 GMT -5
I occasionally find myself with small amounts of 'leftover' Play Store credit. A $.99 skin sale would be just about right for Pix to hoover that credit right out of my account. Patches. Instead of skins, adding the ability to toss a patch on your bot at noticeable locations. It would increase the app size with additional assets but who would like a skull or two on their Galahad shield? Fix the MM:Control weapon/bot levels in leagues more strictly. Increase Silver payout in upper leagues. Add a new arcade option of play that is controlled only by bot/weapon level and gives out smaller silver rewards. No impact on any other stat or separate stat record in terms of kills/damage done/win %.
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Post by frunobulax on Apr 19, 2017 11:17:54 GMT -5
Right now there is 14 Au per match... The rewards I'm suggesting from "regular play" are 8 au (maybe 10 on a 3 way beacon tie)... Doubling that for premium players brings it to 16-20, however that would mean a lot of paying customers, on the recurring revenue stream. I think the increased silver income is already a sufficient incentive to buy premium. Unless you're a hardcore gamer that can spend as much time as he wants on the game, getting the silver required for a top tier hangar is very hard without premium. If you give the impression that the game is pay to win, then you will scare off a lot of players. I'd rather have five million returning players, of which 5% (250k) pay 10 bucks a month for premium and more buy the occasional event and gold package, than 50k players of which 50% buy premium. Pixo does a pretty good job, giving the casual player without much time and gold investment a change to check out the game for free and become a regular player. If they get more greedy this could backfire.
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Post by zer00eyz on Apr 19, 2017 11:23:49 GMT -5
Mind you, I think it's only the second best (or third best) option to introduce a new currency. My #1 solution would be to go back to a hangar based matchmaking, that is smarter and protects noobs better than the old system. Hanger based MM: By putting up a system that lets you earn/grind, and have high satisfaction, lets you do painful upgrades in the background while having a good time is not a good way to maximize revenue. Pix spent a lot of money getting its user base to where it is, and is probably at the point of diminishing returns on it. 1.5 million DAU is BIG for a game, and a mobile one at that. How do you do hanger based MM and make it punishing enough to make people spend money!
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FunkenA
GI. Patton
Iron Pirates clan ID 19488. 4 slots and 200 cups minimum, and involved in chat. use line app to comm
Posts: 143
Karma: 77
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Post by FunkenA on Apr 19, 2017 11:30:07 GMT -5
Battle titans is coming and War Robots will fade away Battle Titans has some of the original Walking War Robots developers.. so who cares about War Robots anymore... They burnt their bridge and the fact is this game went from 1.5 million active to less that 400K active.... You can bet the farm the moment a satisfying replacement mech games hits the exodus will be swift and final IMO. members in my clan are already following Battle Titans and anticipating it. www.youtube.com/channel/UCe9G5F3rJKThKF8WqF8l8jw
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Post by frunobulax on Apr 19, 2017 11:35:58 GMT -5
I think the increased silver income is already a sufficient incentive to buy premium. Unless you're a hardcore gamer that can spend as much time as he wants on the game, getting the silver required for a top tier hangar is very hard without premium. As many players in this forum are new, here's a quick calculation: If you pick your 5 robots for your target hangar and don't upgrade anything else (which is highly theoretical, because even if you spend lots of cash and buy all the robots and weapons you need, you might still change your preference and priorities while you play), you'll need about 300 days and 1100 million gold to upgrade that hangar to 12/12. So, you'll need to earn almost 4 million a day on average. Without premium that's maybe 25 games a day, or 4 hours.
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Post by frunobulax on Apr 19, 2017 12:07:45 GMT -5
Battle titans is coming and War Robots will fade away Battle Titans has some of the original Walking War Robots developers.. so who cares about War Robots anymore... They burnt their bridge and the fact is this game went from 1.5 million active to less that 400K active.... You can bet the farm the moment a satisfying replacement mech games hits the exodus will be swift and final IMO. members in my clan are already following Battle Titans and anticipating it. www.youtube.com/channel/UCe9G5F3rJKThKF8WqF8l8jwI wouldn't bet on it. There were many cases where a great game was followed up by an inferior game from the same developers, and I must say my first impression of battle titans is not that enthusiastic. But yeah, I'm already playing other games while 2 months ago I played only War Robots in my spare time, and it's entirely possible that I leave if I find another game that captures me as much as War Robots.
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Post by anjian on Apr 19, 2017 12:09:39 GMT -5
Get used to it. This kind of matchmaking, aimed to leveling win rates, has become pretty common in many games such as World of Warships, World of Tanks and Overwatch. The only difference is how responsive the matchmaker should swing to your favor. In any case, it should not be responding by the time you reach 40%. It needs to put you on a better team the moment you drop to 49%. Actually, no. Matchmaking and reward system go hand in hand in those games. You are rewarded for advancing in the rankings, and there is less incentive for tanking (even though tanking/clubbing happens in many games). My problem is that the new matchmaking solved no problems but created a bunch of new ones, that could really kill the game in the long term. I would agree to a performance based matchmaking, but only if the reward system is adjusted to create sufficient incentives to play in the highest league possible and to minimize the potential benefits of tanking. I suggested to introduce a new currency (we have silver and gold, let's call it diamonds) that is payed out depending on league advancement, and make new robots, weapons and possibly upgrades available for diamonds(either introduce new levels 13-15, or use it to upgrade diamond robots/weapons). Diamonds are payed out if you advance a league, and as a reward for every match (win or loss, loss pays half the diamonds) depending on your league. Say, a player averages 5 diamonds a game (depending on damage and beacons capped) in bronze league, and 50 diamonds in legend league. This way, existing currency wouldn't have to be touched, but the diamond stuff would create a strong incentive to rise in the leagues. (Note that players will receive 0 diamonds if they don't cap enough beacons and have not enough damage. We don't want skript kiddies and hackers acquiring diamonds, as it happened with the event currency.) Um no. Reward is based on your performance on the game. Matchmaking works off on your win rate and looks to achieve a 50-50% win loss rate as ideal. You end up carrying a team or getting carried by it. Contrary, the higher your tier is, those games (World of Tanks, World of Warships) actually penalizes with higher repair costs, so that at the highest tier, you may not be making money at all, and an average performance in a game can send you rather a net loss. You are forced to perform at a very high level just to break even.
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Post by frunobulax on Apr 19, 2017 12:14:35 GMT -5
Hanger based MM: By putting up a system that lets you earn/grind, and have high satisfaction, lets you do painful upgrades in the background while having a good time is not a good way to maximize revenue. Pix spent a lot of money getting its user base to where it is, and is probably at the point of diminishing returns on it. 1.5 million DAU is BIG for a game, and a mobile one at that. How do you do hanger based MM and make it punishing enough to make people spend money! Why do you think the current MM encourages the spending of money more? If you get your Ancilot and the Fury, you're still up against TT clubbers in your unlevelled robot. And clubbing is easier than before, as is painfully obvious by the loads of tankers in the game. The more players have fun with the game, the more income. If you spoil the fun, you hurt your revenue. The usual reaction from most players I know is "I won't spend a dime until Pixo fixes this mess", and that partly from players who used to buy premium like clockwork.
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Post by anjian on Apr 19, 2017 12:15:18 GMT -5
Mind you, I think it's only the second best (or third best) option to introduce a new currency. My #1 solution would be to go back to a hangar based matchmaking, that is smarter and protects noobs better than the old system. Hanger based MM: By putting up a system that lets you earn/grind, and have high satisfaction, lets you do painful upgrades in the background while having a good time is not a good way to maximize revenue. Pix spent a lot of money getting its user base to where it is, and is probably at the point of diminishing returns on it. 1.5 million DAU is BIG for a game, and a mobile one at that. How do you do hanger based MM and make it punishing enough to make people spend money! Your last question is already being done in games like War Thunder and World of Tanks. Your hanger is still going to be facing players whose hanger and equipment is one to two tiers higher than you.
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