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Post by SATmaster728 on Apr 16, 2017 15:34:39 GMT -5
We need to make the best mm for war robots! Post your best mm, help others, tweak, work togethor! Remember, people are what keeps a game alive, and we must do all we can to fix the mm! Now who's with me!!!!
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Post by loren on Apr 16, 2017 16:11:53 GMT -5
We need to make the best mm for war robots! Post your best mm, help others, tweak, work togethor! Remember, people are what keeps a game alive, and we must do all we can to fix the mm! Now who's with me!!!! I am pretty sure this is as good as it gets... Shaulin came up with a few good mixed League/Hangar based MM's that sound like they would work. I am sure there was an influx of $$$ since the new MM launch so it doesn't make financial sense for Pix to change anything. |
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Post by blastronaut on Apr 16, 2017 16:40:21 GMT -5
I like the current MM, it is easily exploitable.
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Blight Thunder
Destrier
Posts: 116
Karma: 43
Pilot name: Blight Thunder
Platform: Android
Clan: Honey Badgers
League: Silver
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Stalker
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Post by Blight Thunder on Apr 16, 2017 16:52:57 GMT -5
I like the current MM, it is easily exploitable. Blastronaut exploits! I'm kidding. |
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Post by War Child on Apr 16, 2017 16:56:25 GMT -5
Old MM+League system
Just put in ads for a month so we can have some pocket gold for free and pix can also have a bit of pocket money.
Seriously,Pixonic should really need to 'pix' the MM.
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Post by SGT D00M! on Apr 16, 2017 20:07:40 GMT -5
**Save this space**
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Post by procrastinatorx3 on Apr 16, 2017 20:19:45 GMT -5
There should be better rewards for staying in higher leagues.
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Post by peterw35 on Apr 16, 2017 20:26:51 GMT -5
One quick way to fix tanking is to introduce handicap for silver and gold payout when high level hanger hits a lower hanger bot. Say like 20% per bot level difference. Although this means the game has to track your every single hit and which bot you hit.
So say a lv12 bot hits a lv7 bot, he will get 0 silver payout for the dmg he has done because there's a 5 level difference.
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Post by procrastinatorx3 on Apr 16, 2017 20:52:31 GMT -5
One quick way to fix tanking is to introduce handicap for silver and gold payout when high level hanger hits a lower hanger bot. Say like 20% per bot level difference. Although this means the game has to track your every single hit and which bot you hit. So say a lv12 bot hits a lv7 bot, he will get 0 silver payout for the dmg he has done because there's a 5 level difference. Thats more like a punishment instead of focusing on why players tank. There is simply no point in being in top leagues. |
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Post by SATmaster728 on Apr 16, 2017 21:53:13 GMT -5
One quick way to fix tanking is to introduce handicap for silver and gold payout when high level hanger hits a lower hanger bot. Say like 20% per bot level difference. Although this means the game has to track your every single hit and which bot you hit. So say a lv12 bot hits a lv7 bot, he will get 0 silver payout for the dmg he has done because there's a 5 level difference. This is actually in clash of clans. Whenever you get against a lower town hall, you get less loot. |
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Ferro Magnus
Destrier
Posts: 114
Karma: 46
Pilot name: Ferro Magnus
Platform: iOS
Clan: [AuEx]
League: Expert
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Butch/Raijin
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Post by Ferro Magnus on Apr 16, 2017 21:56:06 GMT -5
Where's the "Other" option?
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Post by HEATHEN HERETIC on Apr 16, 2017 21:58:07 GMT -5
One quick way to fix tanking is to introduce handicap for silver and gold payout when high level hanger hits a lower hanger bot. Say like 20% per bot level difference. Although this means the game has to track your every single hit and which bot you hit. So say a lv12 bot hits a lv7 bot, he will get 0 silver payout for the dmg he has done because there's a 5 level difference. Yeah, I think not. If I were to blow a hunch of real dough upgrading my equipment to 12/12 while being way down there on player level I don't think I'd like being penalized for having upgraded equipment in my matches with other same player level matches. And I certainly wouldn't be happy being thrown into higher player ranked matches with much more experienced players. And I seriously doubt Pixo is about to even try doing any of that to a good customer either. |
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Post by peterw35 on Apr 17, 2017 1:40:34 GMT -5
One quick way to fix tanking is to introduce handicap for silver and gold payout when high level hanger hits a lower hanger bot. Say like 20% per bot level difference. Although this means the game has to track your every single hit and which bot you hit. So say a lv12 bot hits a lv7 bot, he will get 0 silver payout for the dmg he has done because there's a 5 level difference. Thats more like a punishment instead of focusing on why players tank. There is simply no point in being in top leagues. I am focusing on why players tank. Players tank for easy kill, easy silver and easy gold. And my solution is directly targeting the reason by not giving them easy money unless they go up and find their match. You can call it punishment, I will call it less incentive to go down. Because you have a choice not to be "punished" |
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Post by peterw35 on Apr 17, 2017 1:45:43 GMT -5
One quick way to fix tanking is to introduce handicap for silver and gold payout when high level hanger hits a lower hanger bot. Say like 20% per bot level difference. Although this means the game has to track your every single hit and which bot you hit. So say a lv12 bot hits a lv7 bot, he will get 0 silver payout for the dmg he has done because there's a 5 level difference. Yeah, I think not. If I were to blow a hunch of real dough upgrading my equipment to 12/12 while being way down there on player level I don't think I'd like being penalized for having upgraded equipment in my matches with other same player level matches. And I certainly wouldn't be happy being thrown into higher player ranked matches with much more experienced players. And I seriously doubt Pixo is about to even try doing any of that to a good customer either. If you think about a proper environment is implemented, you won't want to be down in the lower league in the first place. You get higher rewards by being in a higher league (see my other post about incentive). And you won't get much by being down in the lower league. You will find your balance and be where you are in the league system. Similar situations to higher leveled opponents, they won't want to go down to fight you because it won't pay the bill to do so. From what I have described I think wherever I am at in my comfortable league level,i should be seeing players roughly 1-3 levels different to me which should be a good match. |
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Post by SGT D00M! on Apr 17, 2017 19:51:26 GMT -5
3 main problems (3.5)
1) Skill is not being measured, so calling it an ELO MM is false. Damage *IS* super important, because it's the measure of hangar *power* but not skill. Various point systems have been recommended and many of them are good. I like 1 point per 100,00 damage, one point per beacon captured and one point per Robot killed. Doesn't change much just harder to manipulate and recognizes strategic play and beacon cappers.
2) League Cup distribution almost guarantees that nobody really advances or even goes down in leagues. Combined with above ELO scoring adjust the Cup distribution to something like Winning team [18,16,15,14,13,11] & Losing team [2,0,-6,-12,-24,-48]. Consistently score top two in ELO ranking? Go up fast. Middle scores will float till their hangar improves or slowly improve and bottom two will sink to a kinder league quickly.
3) Tankers. My favorite is the 3 min of play or *NO* rewards. No gold, no cups (positive or negative) no stats towards dailies. AND/OR no new battle can be started till the first battle ends. The time needed to tank would grow, beyond the usefulness of it. Downsides is you could drop matches you were clearly losing after two minutes with no penalty. Maybe keep the ditcher league? My other idea was to flatten the Au rewards. Top two ELO scores get 3 Au and everyone else on the winning team gets 2 Au. Incentive to keep going for the win at all costs, and no real Au increase for fighting lower level players. Now the main Au payout is from League advancement.
3.5) Gold and Diamond players being banded into Champion level games. Hard limits on how far you can league band. Top Tier just needs to have longer cue times until more players advance. Stop punishing Gold and Diamond players.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Karma:
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2017 22:46:18 GMT -5
1 and 2 are pretty much the same
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Post by GreenFace on Apr 18, 2017 2:24:21 GMT -5
There should be option: I did send Pixonic some ideas, and they thank for it, then there's a magic word follows: "SOON"  . |
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Post by frunobulax on Apr 18, 2017 4:47:41 GMT -5
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Post by SGT D00M! on Apr 18, 2017 5:53:14 GMT -5
Pix has stated repeatedly that going back is not going to happen. On top of that, I think skill based MM has more potential. It's sad Pix rolled out the new MM with the worst choices possible. New MM w/o leagues. Single data point for "skill". No manner to check cheaters. Changing cup scoring so that league advancement is nearly impossible and no longer an incentive. Skill based MM is a great idea implemented disastrously. I almost wonder if it is still fixable at this point. I think it is, see my post above, but I truly get the frustration. |
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Post by frunobulax on Apr 18, 2017 6:06:12 GMT -5
Maybe it's possible to design a skill based matchmaking that works for War Robots, but it would have to include a fundamentally different value system, and I still don't see how they would fix the "changeup hangar" issue. And whatever the perceived advantages of a skill based MM are, can't they be achieved with a hangar-based matchmaking that is a little bit tweaked to account for skill?
Skill based matchmaking will always encourage tanking. Countermeasuresmay eliminate obvious tanking as it is happening now, but there's just no way to prevent "light" tanking: just drop a few leagues, all you need to do is to run a Cossack-only hangar and get yourself killed really fast. And players will be content with losing, in the way "one ineviatable loss out of the way".
What is the benefit of performance based matchmaking? Theoretically, being matched up against players with equal skills. Practically, the problem of tanking would have to be solved completely before this can work.
What are the disadvantages? Tanking, seal clubbing, disability to play with changeup hangar/weaker clanmates.
I really hope our "round table" players will make this clear to Pixo. Go back to hangar based matchmaking, keep leagues, and maybe develop ideas how to build a better performance based matchmaking in the background.
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Post by SATmaster728 on Apr 18, 2017 6:32:51 GMT -5
Maybe it's possible to design a skill based matchmaking that works for War Robots, but it would have to include a fundamentally different value system, and I still don't see how they would fix the "changeup hangar" issue. And whatever the perceived advantages of a skill based MM are, can't they be achieved with a hangar-based matchmaking that is a little bit tweaked to account for skill? Skill based matchmaking will always encourage tanking. Countermeasuresmay eliminate obvious tanking as it is happening now, but there's just no way to prevent "light" tanking: just drop a few leagues, all you need to do is to run a Cossack-only hangar and get yourself killed really fast. And players will be content with losing, in the way "one ineviatable loss out of the way". What is the benefit of performance based matchmaking? Theoretically, being matched up against players with equal skills. Practically, the problem of tanking would have to be solved completely before this can work. What are the disadvantages? Tanking, seal clubbing, disability to play with changeup hangar/weaker clanmates. I really hope our "round table" players will make this clear to Pixo. Go back to hangar based matchmaking, keep leagues, and maybe develop ideas how to build a better performance based matchmaking in the background. before the new mm was implemented, there was a brief period of time when hanger strength and win rate was both counted in determining your standing. this was the best of both worlds for me. no artillery natashas, but very few map gepards as well. |
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Post by frunobulax on Apr 18, 2017 6:54:03 GMT -5
before the new mm was implemented, there was a brief period of time when hanger strength and win rate was both counted in determining your standing. this was the best of both worlds for me. no artillery natashas, but very few map gepards as well. Yes. The old mm wasn't bad, it just had the drawback that robot level was valued way too much, allowing 4/12 Gepards in a league with 6/1 Nattys. And it counted only your best robot, so players with unequal hangars were in trouble. They could have fixed all problems with a bit of tweaking in the hangar score. |
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Post by SGT D00M! on Apr 18, 2017 7:06:17 GMT -5
Maybe it's possible to design a skill based matchmaking that works for War Robots, but it would have to include a fundamentally different value system, and I still don't see how they would fix the "changeup hangar" issue. And whatever the perceived advantages of a skill based MM are, can't they be achieved with a hangar-based matchmaking that is a little bit tweaked to account for skill? Skill based matchmaking will always encourage tanking. Countermeasuresmay eliminate obvious tanking as it is happening now, but there's just no way to prevent "light" tanking: just drop a few leagues, all you need to do is to run a Cossack-only hangar and get yourself killed really fast. And players will be content with losing, in the way "one ineviatable loss out of the way". What is the benefit of performance based matchmaking? Theoretically, being matched up against players with equal skills. Practically, the problem of tanking would have to be solved completely before this can work. What are the disadvantages? Tanking, seal clubbing, disability to play with changeup hangar/weaker clanmates. I really hope our "round table" players will make this clear to Pixo. Go back to hangar based matchmaking, keep leagues, and maybe develop ideas how to build a better performance based matchmaking in the background. Before I get into it, I want to clarify that I see this as a discussion and not an argument. Bravo to frunobulax for taking the time to think of real answers. A quick reminder, what you refer to as "fun" or "change-up" hangars were clubbing hangars. The reason they were so fun was because they were so unbalanced. They are part of the reason for the new MM. You can run fast hangars now, you just don't get an immediate domination with them anymore. (hence why I recommended the League cup distribution that I did above). Tankers really only ruin the game on the way down for me. The rare over-matched player on his way back up doesn't ruin the game for me the same way 5 or 4 vs 6 does. The "light tanking" doesn't bother me if they are stopped prior to below bronze or silver (probably silver). As far as squading with lower level clan mates, my experience is markedly different than yours. My clan is very young and low powered and I have not seen them dragged up to my level. I squad from time to time with expert league guys (I'm silver) and it is hardly an auto loss for my team. You talk about incentive and punishment, but I fail to see the incentive in the old MM. upgrade to far or mix your hangar and you lose. Tier camp at the right magical numbers and you win...kinda boring really. I'm 100% sure it will be brought up at the round table. I'm also 100% sure Pix will hear what they want to hear and do it their own way anyway. AKA adding beacons to Elo score (like we asked for) as opposed to the disastrous new league cup scores (the turd we were given) . All that said, the old MM and Frunobulax's concept are better than the current one. This one has potential, I just no longer trust Pix to be able to fix it. |
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Post by wildboar on Apr 18, 2017 7:16:31 GMT -5
We need to make the best mm for war robots! Post your best mm, help others, tweak, work togethor! Remember, people are what keeps a game alive, and we must do all we can to fix the mm! Now who's with me!!!! Sorry ... that reminded me of the iconic Bluto speech  |
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Post by frunobulax on Apr 18, 2017 7:36:14 GMT -5
A quick reminder, what you refer to as "fun" or "change-up" hangars were clubbing hangars. The reason they were so fun was because they were so unbalanced. That's not true. You can debate whether "many" or "a few" players used it for clubbing, but not all. I never ran clubbing hangars, but I would always "dress down" when I was squadding with weaker teammates, using say 4/6-4/7 Boas, Golems and Pattons, and yes, also one MagGep, and that brought us into low silver. Squadding always involved a short communication about the target tier, everybody switched robots, and off we went. And I also ran "changeup hangars" in the sense that I would put out a Gep, two Cossacks and two Thunder Schützes. Now, where my hangar is more developed, I would love to use my Boas, Golems and Pattons again. I still do run changeup hangars now, but my win rate is negligible until I drop two leagues or so, so I hardly ever do it anymore. (I can pretty much hold my ground with a Gary, a Stalker, a Fujin and two Galahads, but there's no way I can contribute with Cossacks and Schützes now unless I drop to silver III or so.) Mind you, I do suggest to use the number of wins as modifier to a hangar score. This way, players with say less than 1000 wins would enjoy protection, fewer wins giving higher matchmaking bonus. That would pretty much eliminate clubbing, if matchmaking is made a bit more intelligent (adjust value of weapon level and robot level more intelligently). |
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Post by raahloonraah on Apr 19, 2017 22:05:21 GMT -5
I like the current MM, it is easily exploitable. Please do tell how exactly you are being successful at this?! I would want to play this game at a lower level since it feels like I have been slowly been forced to buoy into a league just to be thrashed around. |
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Post by Thunderkiss on Apr 19, 2017 23:00:56 GMT -5
Add
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