|
|
Post by dinnerplain on Sept 16, 2024 10:42:14 GMT -5
I just played a game with an Android player (INT BL6WR) from China (from clan ID:213737) where their robot was under the map.
Their active hanger is a combination of Angler, Hellburnerm and one Shell.
Modus operandi: run around under the map, where you can't be shot, at supersonic cheating speads, exploding and killing reds.
Last 50 battles:
Victories: 100%. Robots destroyed per battle? 21.6 Max cheating (err winning) streak: 98 Average damage: 4123211 Max damage delt: 10.9M
|
|
|
|
Post by 0megaman on Sept 16, 2024 12:27:22 GMT -5
Is the update released across all platforms already? If so, I will take a look  |
|
|
|
Post by munkeeee on Sept 16, 2024 12:38:40 GMT -5
had a hack with an angler yesterday, in constant stealth/phase mode, yet had hellburner abilities frying all the blue Smurfs. I had pics and wrote a rant, but deleted because I am over this bs game. It will never be fixed so I just accept the bs and move on with my day when it happens.
but from what I have read and seen the anti hack thing is only supposed to be for PC players since I guess pix thinks that's where most of the hacking is coming from.
|
|
|
|
Post by dinnerplain on Sept 16, 2024 16:28:31 GMT -5
but from what I have read and seen the anti hack thing is only supposed to be for PC players since I guess pix thinks that's where most of the hacking is coming from.
Step 1, prepare big bucket of sand. Step 2, insert head into sand. Step 3, announce all War Robots hacking problems are fixed because PC platform.
|
|
|
|
Post by gus169 on Sept 18, 2024 1:54:47 GMT -5
yeah, I think this was posted before the pc update, so anticheat wouldn't have been in place yet. pc updated yesterday for me. I'd be very interested to see if there are any further sightings now. I won't be surprised
|
|
|
|
Post by 0megaman on Sept 19, 2024 12:18:39 GMT -5
omg.... LoL
Pigsonic decided to use Denuvo for their PC anti-cheat solution. Utterly useless given their particular client/server model. Sure, it'll slow down some kinds of cheats, but not others. IMHO, they arent serious about it at all.
|
|
|
|
Post by dinnerplain on Sept 21, 2024 5:14:05 GMT -5
had a hack with an angler yesterday, in constant stealth/phase mode, yet had hellburner abilities frying all the blue Smurfs. I had pics and wrote a rant, but deleted because I am over this bs game. It will never be fixed so I just accept the bs and move on with my day when it happens.
Exactly what I was seeing, except they were "below the map". The mroe things change, the more they stay the same.
|
|
|
|
Post by easystrider on Sept 22, 2024 20:11:23 GMT -5
The problem I'm seeing is that supposedly denuvo anti-cheat works by getting kernel level access to your computer. That means it has such a low level access it can access anything. I know this is third party software but still don't think I'd trust company such as Pixonic to install anything like that on my machine.
Plus, I doubt I could install it even if I wanted. Since I sometimes work remotely I have security software installed by my company that I think would block the War Robots install/update. It has blocked installing a game or two in the past that tried to sneak in spyware.
|
|
|
|
Post by 0megaman on Sept 23, 2024 12:02:18 GMT -5
The problem I'm seeing is that supposedly denuvo anti-cheat works by getting kernel level access to your computer. That means it has such a low level access it can access anything. I know this is third party software but still don't think I'd trust company such as Pixonic to install anything like that on my machine. Plus, I doubt I could install it even if I wanted. Since I sometimes work remotely I have security software installed by my company that I think would block the War Robots install/update. It has blocked installing a game or two in the past that tried to sneak in spyware.
A kernel-mode driver is really just a mechanism to control various functions between the core OS and the user-space of the OS. By itself, its not dangerous, most AV software use this method for obvious reasons. Its also the recommended method by Microsoft for security related software, the interface/functions/methods are extremely well documented.
With that said, it comes down to trust of the company implementing it... whether its trust via that company's reputation, and/or trust in the company's capabilities/competency.
There are 2 issues, which are related, but ultimately different... Denuvo, IMHO is a piece of junk, and not particularly effective, its been broken more than a few times. With that said, its just a tool, in no way malicious by itself. Could some company utilize Denuvo to do less than scrupulous things to a user? Probably. Normal companies wouldnt dare in any direct way, the reputational damage and criminal prosecution would be devastating.
Heres the interesting thing, hypothetical of course  If a company wants to use Denuvo to block all manners of cheats, they certainly can, and it will slow-down hacks/cracks by third parties. However, the company implementing Denuvo for their game can do whatever they want. SO, if some company say, wants to sell cheats on the side and under-the-table for their own game, those cheats can be made to work with the implementation, as they control the underlying specs for the implementation.
Just my perspective on such things
|
|
|
|
Post by easystrider on Sept 23, 2024 12:40:43 GMT -5
The problem I'm seeing is that supposedly denuvo anti-cheat works by getting kernel level access to your computer. That means it has such a low level access it can access anything. I know this is third party software but still don't think I'd trust company such as Pixonic to install anything like that on my machine. Plus, I doubt I could install it even if I wanted. Since I sometimes work remotely I have security software installed by my company that I think would block the War Robots install/update. It has blocked installing a game or two in the past that tried to sneak in spyware.
A kernel-mode driver is really just a mechanism to control various functions between the core OS and the user-space of the OS. By itself, its not dangerous, most AV software use this method for obvious reasons. Its also the recommended method by Microsoft for security related software, the interface/functions/methods are extremely well documented.
... Kernel mode access is giving access to your entire PC, including reading password caches and etc. Sure, software given that access usually is well behaved but that's not the best architecture to have. I can accept security solutions being given that access but I'd push back on games doing it, even though at the moment it's only way to prevent cheating on PC. Microsoft is aware of it (especially after the Crowdstrike incident) and looks like will be moving away from granting kernel level access: www.notebookcheck.net/Microsoft-paves-the-way-for-Linux-gaming-success-with-plan-that-would-kill-kernel-level-anti-cheat.888345.0.html |
|
|
|
Post by 0megaman on Sept 23, 2024 13:28:19 GMT -5
A kernel-mode driver is really just a mechanism to control various functions between the core OS and the user-space of the OS. By itself, its not dangerous, most AV software use this method for obvious reasons. Its also the recommended method by Microsoft for security related software, the interface/functions/methods are extremely well documented.
... Kernel mode access is giving access to your entire PC, including reading password caches and etc. Sure, software given that access usually is well behaved but that's not the best architecture to have. I can accept security solutions being given that access but I'd push back on games doing it, even though at the moment it's only way to prevent cheating on PC.
I've written 4 kernel-mode drivers in my career, for use with (at the time) Win 7 and Win Server 2012. Just because its a KMD, does not give default access to the entire PC, it depends on how its written. Denuvo has specific restrictions in place (like all legit vendors must have), an implementer of their product cannot write arbitrary code to access VAS's that arent included in Denuvo's framework, its not going to happen. Their scope is very limited relative to an AV for example.
There are dangers with KMD's however, as you pointed out, CS is a perfect example, they just plain screwed up, and in a big way. That goes back to the trust aspect I mentioned, notably capability/competency of the vendor in question. CS's name is mud in the industry now, as it should be. If Denuvo screws up, it could potentially cause a similar problem, but it wouldnt be because Pigsonic screwed up Denuvo. Like all commercial vendors, Denuvo must adhere to specific practices and limitations, to prevent directed malicious use of their products by third parties. Otherwise they lose all the certifications, certificates, and trusted authority references get revoked.
Most root kits try to utilize a KMD in Windows based systems, for obvious reasons, and even they have to be somewhat carefully written as to not crash the whole system. The way those are written are designed to hijack specific interfaces in Windows, most common being file system drivers. Again, theyre criminals, and not commercial vendors.
Microsoft has been wanting to get away from KMD architecture for quite some time now, and its a good idea. There are better ways to implement structured security in Windows, but theyve been damn lazy about it, clinging to old methods as to not spend money developing new approaches. After CS, they have to take it seriously finally, visibility in the industry is high right now.
As for War Robots, Pigsonic doesnt need Denuvo. All they need to do is clean up their own code, its really not that hard to reasonably lock it down. Another one is Fortnite, sloppy sloppy sloppy. Many game vendors are lazy, and have unserious coders working for them, and/or their priorities are totally wrong (like Pigsonic).
|
|
|
|
Post by easystrider on Sept 23, 2024 14:24:26 GMT -5
Kernel mode access is giving access to your entire PC, including reading password caches and etc. Sure, software given that access usually is well behaved but that's not the best architecture to have. I can accept security solutions being given that access but I'd push back on games doing it, even though at the moment it's only way to prevent cheating on PC.
I've written 4 kernel-mode drivers in my career, for use with (at the time) Win 7 and Win Server 2012. Just because its a KMD, does not give default access to the entire PC, it depends on how its written. Denuvo has specific restrictions in place (like all legit vendors must have), an implementer of their product cannot write arbitrary code to access VAS's that arent included in Denuvo's framework, its not going to happen. Their scope is very limited relative to an AV for example.
...
Right, but you are talking about self-policing and possible Microsoft review process. I'm referring to not triggering exception when it tries to access something it should have no access to, regardless if it was done maliciously or by mistake. At any rate, I doubt my current security software would accept that, I've had it reject game or two I wanted to install but cannot recall if it was due to anti-cheat. I agree that's an overkill to add it for ~2k steam user when their platform has ~600k daily mobile users. But then it's very visible issue that many have been complaining about. My feeling though is that even after installing it the "cheats" won't stop since most people cannot distinguish between cheating and insanely OP items that Pixonic peddles. |
|
|
|
Post by 0megaman on Sept 23, 2024 16:27:37 GMT -5
I've written 4 kernel-mode drivers in my career, for use with (at the time) Win 7 and Win Server 2012. Just because its a KMD, does not give default access to the entire PC, it depends on how its written. Denuvo has specific restrictions in place (like all legit vendors must have), an implementer of their product cannot write arbitrary code to access VAS's that arent included in Denuvo's framework, its not going to happen. Their scope is very limited relative to an AV for example.
... Right, but you are talking about self-policing and possible Microsoft review process. I'm referring to not triggering exception when it tries to access something it should have no access to, regardless if it was done maliciously or by mistake. Self-policing... kind of? The software vendor/developer has their application/components digitally signed, which ends up in a variety of trust authorities, all of which are independent from each other (but partnered usually). Many Security applications (particularly zero-trust frameworks) maintain extensive lists of signed applications, their hash, and other signature info, and most of that is shared with other security orgs, etc. If they get legitimately dinged as 'dangerous' because of a security hole or specific malicious potential, theyre pretty much in huge trouble. For a KMD, if its a 'mistake' as with CS, their driver attempted to write to a VAS that belonged to another core system driver improperly. Those type of issues are an instant BSOD. A malicious KMD has to be installed by someone with no clue, with no security apparatus, or allow the bypass of, are typically written to hook specific functions/API's to do whatever theyre going to do. They are very specific in what they target, and they work from there. A legit KMD cant give 'access' outside of whats defined in its framework, so a game company cant utilize something like Denuvo to blanket access whatever the game developers want. If Denuvo allowed such a thing, they'd be instantly black-listed. For the record, as I mentioned before, I think Denuvo is junk... they may drop 「dookie」 on the fan like CS, ya never know. Its not malicious, just incredibly stupid. |
|
|
|
Post by GuitarGuy on Sept 23, 2024 16:33:44 GMT -5
but from what I have read and seen the anti hack thing is only supposed to be for PC players since I guess pix thinks that's where most of the hacking is coming from.
Step 1, prepare big bucket of sand. Step 2, insert head into sand. Step 3, announce all War Robots hacking problems are fixed because PC platform.
there are tons of PC players using emulators on Android. The only platform you would be hard pressed to hack is iOS. |
|
|
|
Post by easystrider on Sept 23, 2024 17:13:42 GMT -5
Right, but you are talking about self-policing and possible Microsoft review process. I'm referring to not triggering exception when it tries to access something it should have no access to, regardless if it was done maliciously or by mistake. Self-policing... kind of? The software vendor/developer has their application/components digitally signed, which ends up in a variety of trust authorities, all of which are independent from each other (but partnered usually). Many Security applications (particularly zero-trust frameworks) maintain extensive lists of signed applications, their hash, and other signature info, and most of that is shared with other security orgs, etc. If they get legitimately dinged as 'dangerous' because of a security hole or specific malicious potential, theyre pretty much in huge trouble. For a KMD, if its a 'mistake' as with CS, their driver attempted to write to a VAS that belonged to another core system driver improperly. Those type of issues are an instant BSOD. A malicious KMD has to be installed by someone with no clue, with no security apparatus, or allow the bypass of, are typically written to hook specific functions/API's to do whatever theyre going to do. They are very specific in what they target, and they work from there. A legit KMD cant give 'access' outside of whats defined in its framework, so a game company cant utilize something like Denuvo to blanket access whatever the game developers want. If Denuvo allowed such a thing, they'd be instantly black-listed. For the record, as I mentioned before, I think Denuvo is junk... they may drop 「dookie」 on the fan like CS, ya never know. Its not malicious, just incredibly stupid. Not denying anything you wrote, I'm sure the entire framework has very robust measures to prevent any kind of abuse or bugs. But it seems MS is deciding that it will be just easier to restrict kernel level access going forward. About denuvo I have a mixed feelings, to be honest. On one hand, it's a "no go" for me for now. I could solve the problem by using only work laptop for work and then I'd kick out all of the company security software from my desktop. But I like using my desktop for work and don't feel the urge to install War Robots for now. On the other hand denuvo's goal is to prevent cheating and it can't do it effectively without kernel level access, so what can you do? I feel weird about complaining about Pixonic not doing anything about cheating and when they do something about it I say that it's not for me. So I kind of give them pass there, there was a cheating problem and they at least attempted to fix it. |
|
|
|
Post by munkeeee on Sept 23, 2024 21:08:30 GMT -5
the funny thing about all of this, is since its been brought to the table by pix as a FIX if you will, I have encountered a significant increase in hacks, at least 1-2 bots every 3 to 5 games over the past few days, and at different hours of the day. Thought maybe it might just be a time zone, or match selection, but it seems to be pretty even across the board. Minimum of 1 bot every 3 games, 1 to 2 every 3 to 5. I even ventured away from TDM and DOM into BR and FFA and met the same situation. So either folks are scrambling to get their kicks in before the introduction of it, or Pix just opened a big new can of worms.
|
|
|
|
Post by hereforprizes on Sept 24, 2024 3:56:43 GMT -5
Yep, I’ve been seeing plenty too, but oddly doing little damage and leaving early. I reckon it’s Pix training their new software. Drop a hack and see if it gets reported or not / reports correlate with the software.
Even if it doesn’t work at all, that’ll still be an improvement over the current system where any moron with hurt feelings reports anyone who killed their favourite new bot.
|
|
|
|
Post by T34 on Sept 29, 2024 18:22:17 GMT -5
Pix is probably introducing this because cheaters don’t pay or pay very little.
|
|
|
|
Post by GuitarGuy on Oct 7, 2024 14:01:22 GMT -5
  Heck, I am even seeing iOS hackers now. check this guy out. |
|
|
|
Post by titando on Oct 7, 2024 14:48:19 GMT -5
There is some sort of invincibility bug that was introduced in the last update. Never seen it before. My Revenant got down to 8K HP, then I was invincible for the entire match.
|
|
|
|
Post by meetjoeblack on Oct 8, 2024 4:13:46 GMT -5
There is some sort of invincibility bug that was introduced in the last update. Never seen it before. My Revenant got down to 8K HP, then I was invincible for the entire match. Actually i had that luck to be the first one who recorded that bug, but at that time We all were very lucky cuz the bug was only noticed on test server. This was recorded somewhere in the middle of August: But unfortunately with new update Immortal Bug moved from test server to live server and I connected the Bug with new Sonic weapons. It has to be and thats why we haven't experienced immortal bug in last update cuz we didn't have Screamer and Howler weapon before this 10.4 update. Some people thought it is connected to Condor but that happens even where there are no Condors in the match however new Sonic weapons are similar to all cases. Anyway it would be fair if You just leave the game when You get that bug. I know You can say can I just swap buggy robot? Unfortunately when You do that Your next robot will not be possible to control. So it is useless to switch the robots. However if You find Yourself in situations where enemy decides to exploit the bug here the only way how You can defeat them: How to BEAT IMMORTAL BUG | Buggy and maxed MAULER with 1 HP | War robots game [War Robots] |
|
If a company wants to use Denuvo to block all manners of cheats, they certainly can, and it will slow-down hacks/cracks by third parties. However, the company implementing Denuvo for their game can do whatever they want. SO, if some company say, wants to sell cheats on the side and under-the-table for their own game, those cheats can be made to work with the implementation, as they control the underlying specs for the implementation.
