[MA] Mech Rework Concepts | War Robots Forum

Adazahi
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A·da·za·hi /ädäzähē/

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[MA] Mech Rework Concepts Nov 1, 2022 16:39:44 GMT -5 Koalabear, OU812?, and 1 more like this

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Post by Adazahi on Nov 1, 2022 16:39:44 GMT -5

I like the balance between most bots that this game provides. Seeing grey bots and blue bots able to fight purple bots and gold bots on equal footing is a breath of fresh air from War Robots. With that being said, there are some outliers who find themselves with very few use cases.

I’d like to overview bots as a whole in this game and provide some ideas (and concept art!) for ways the bots that lag behind the pack can be improved. I’d also like to suggest a very minor change to the role system, and since it’s a short segment, I’ll go over it first.

A new role is added - Sniper! Panther and Orion are moved to this role. It’s a very small role since it has only two bots, but in the future more could be added.
Tank gets a new addition, with an Arachnos rework (detailed below) moving it to the tank class!

That’s all for the role changes, now here’s my ideas for bot changes:

Paragon

Boost cooldown 9s -> 8s
While boosting, Paragon cleanses and ignores all negative effects (including EMP)
Additionally, Paragon gets 25% damage resistance and doesn’t take extra side damage or back damage during boost

Paragon is a simple bot with a simple function. I’ve heard that it does well in rocket mortar fights due to the sprint ability, but generally, it doesn’t see much play since most players would prefer damage from brickhouse or stalker on their RM builds. This buff makes Paragon a little better at what it already does, giving some more incentive to pick it.

Panther

No changes

Panther is a great mech, maybe even a bit on the powerful side, but it’s flimsy HP keeps it in check.

Arachnos

Moved to tank category
Arachnos ability reworked:
Turret lasts 8s and cools down for 14s.
Turret activates instantly, instead of when an enemy is spotted
Turret now projects a half circle shield that works the same way as panther’s, but doesn’t freeze enemies that go through it.
Turret now slowly applies stasis to those who are under its fire for too long.
Concept image (From my old post)

I actually made a whole post about this a year or so ago, but would like to bring the topic back to light in this post. In the Arachnos spotlight, it was advertised as a bot that was all about area denial and beacon control. As all of us who play know, the bot is actually all about collecting dust after you get anything else to replace it. This sort of change makes it what it was advertised to be - but also keeps it out of panther’s territory by trading off duration : cooldown ratio and speed for better HP and freeze at range.

Guardian

No changes

Similar to Panther, I think this bot is in a great spot as is.

Stalker

No changes

Honestly, this bot is kind of OP. I think it should get its HP nerfed back, as it’s now an all in one tank/assault bot.

Redox

Caustic blast radius 30m -> 45m
Base Speed 16km/h -> 19km/h
Ability base damage 13k -> 16k
New effect: Caustic blast now slows down reloads, cooldowns, and fire rate of affected enemies by 50%.

Commentary: While I have little personal experience with this bot, I know a bit about (and the major grievances players have with it) because I thought it looked cool and wanted it when I first started playing, so I did quite a lot of research. I found that the main issues are that it’s super slow and that its ability is unimpressive, so that’s what I tried to change.

Lancer

Cleanse negative effects (including EMP) on jump

I was happy to see that tengu didn’t directly powercreep this bot, as the jump height is quite different and lancer remains to be the only bot that can reach certain ares of the map and barrage enemies with Javs. This use case is extremely niche, so I thought that giving the lancer an instant cleanse would be more than enough to carve some space for it in the meta when paired with its super short cooldown.

Killshot

No changes

Killshot is still a top bot, and while the surge buff gave it some competition, I don’t believe it kicked it out of the meta.

Shadow & Tengu

During stealth, take no bonus back/side damage and 50% reduced splash damage

While I don’t personally Pilot a Shadow, I have found them insanely easy to kill in stealth with Disc Launchers. As a matter of fact, they’re actually easier to kill in stealth than out of stealth with these weapons since you can splash them with back hits. I don’t think there should be any case where Shadow or Tengu's ability make them more vulnerable than they already are. It's less of an issue for Tengu thanks to the Stasis and the fact that it spends some of its stealth time in air, but a third party using disc launchers that you didn't hit with your ability will kill you just as they would kill a shadow - pretty fast.

Redeemer

No changes

This bot just came out, so I’m not sure as to how it’s performing. At first glance in the overview video, it seems to be quite good.

Surge

No changes

I honestly think surge was was a bit overtuned. They brought it up from a D tier bot to #1 bot in the game virtually overnight, but still, I think that the addition of cleanse to paragon and lancer will make for some unexpected counters to this bot without the need for direct nerfs. I also chose to not give it the same stealth buff as Tengu and Stalker, as it performs just fine without being tougher to kill in stealth.

Juggernaut & Ares

Both can now cancel shield early by tapping the ability button again. Cooldown is reduced by however much HP was left on the shield (ie, 50% shield HP, cooldown halved)
Juggernaut durability increased by 10%
Juggernaut shield mechanics changed to be the same as ares (shield lasts forever)
Concept image

Many top players seem to omit Juggernaut from their lineup since it's stats are slightly worse than those of Ares, so I was a little bit more generous with Juggernaut's buffs. This makes them each have trade offs - Juggernaut is a bit slower a bit tankier, and can activate its shield slightly more often, but Ares can protect teammates with it's shield and has a bit more speed. Also some QoL for both of them, allowing for an early shield cancellation to start generating the next, instead of having to get damaged to do so, and Jugg gets the ability to keep its shield for as long as it wants just like Ares.

Aegis

You and your teammates can shoot through the bubble
Bubble cooldown 10s -> 15s
Bubble duration 10s -> 7.5s
Bubble is no longer thrown forward, but instead drops right where Aegis is standing
Bubble is destroyed if Aegis exits it

It’s surprising to see such a new bot get used so little, mainly, if I had to guess, due to the nature of the bubble shield being an impediment to your team. With some careful changes to the numbers, and requiring aegis to remain in the bubble to hold it up, I think this could be implemented without causing powercreep of Panther and the buffed Arachnos.

Brickhouse

Overcharger radius 10m -> 15m
Overcharger self damage boost 50% -> 60%
Durability +10%
Overcharger now grants 10% damage resistance to brickhouse and those in its area of effect.

Since this bot is a tank, I think it should have some defensive ability, even though it's an "off-tank" of sorts that specializes in damage. I think it should get buffed in multple ways because it has effectivally been replaced by Stalker, who can do it's job better and without all the clunkiness that comes with being a huge tank mech. Making the damage buff it gives itself slightly stronger and making it take less damage instead of more damage is a good way to give this mech an edge on Stalker in some ways, but still be worse off in others.

MD

Heal radius 10m->15m
Ability cooldown 12s -> 8s
Now continues to heal while taking damage, but at 50% power

I have seriously never seen a non-AI MD on my team before. It’s the one and only bot bestowed with the power to heal allies and yet it sees virtually no use because of its weaknesses. Allowing it to heal a little through firepower, fit more teammates in the heal radius, and have its ability active more often than not (10s:8s ability cooldown ratio) may allow this low firepower dedicated support to shine.

Cheetah

No changes

Cheetah was buffed a little after I started playing this game, and I think that buff is more than enough for now, as I recall many people saying it was too much.

Zephyr

Speed 18km/h -> 22km/h
Shock pulse radius 30m -> 40m
Durability 71200 -> 92000
Cooldown 8s -> 9s

Since Zephyr is losing to Surge for the spot of EMP champion, I think it should get some stat adjustments. This way, instead of having entirely worse stats than surge, it makes trade offs. Zephyr would have more durability and a significantly larger EMP radius, but it gives up speed and stealth, as well as incurring a slightly longer cooldown.

Orion

No changes

Orion is has a really strong ability that is synergistic with basically any weapon and can cut down tanks with ease. This bot is a bit too strong, but again, I’d rather buff other bots than resort to nerfing this one.

If you read till the end - thank you for listening to my ramble! What do you think about these change concepts?

Last Edit: Nov 1, 2022 16:47:24 GMT -5 by Adazahi

I dunno much about bots. I just hold the red button until they stop moving.

salvia
Blitz

Posts: 296
Karma: 277

[MA] Mech Rework Concepts Nov 3, 2022 13:56:56 GMT -5 Adazahi likes this

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Post by salvia on Nov 3, 2022 13:56:56 GMT -5

Just wanted to comment quickly on your proposals, which are imaginative and certainly pertinent overall. Good job.

First off, I think you should send them to Plarium.
You have given much thought on the matter, so it'd be a waste otherwise. And one never knows, it might end up proving useful for the devs.

Paragon, Arachnos and MD in particular need more love - for sure. Their rebalancing should be a priority for the devs.

Now some proposals I don't agree with :

Sniper role : generally roles are based upon mech characteristics ; e.g. scouts are light (or supposed to be), tanks are very beefy, etc. But there's no such defined characteristics when it comes to sniping, especially with such a general purpose mech as Panther.
Aegis : I don't think either the player or his teammates should be allowed to shoot from inside. That would give them an unfair advantage. Letting teammates shoot from outside of the bubble, i.e. not blocking their line of fire, would make sense.
EMP bypass : Plarium has started this trend with Redeemer but I'm not sure it's a good thing. If a mech can ignore it, then bots such as Zéphyr and Guardian (with its EMP variant) completely lose any purpose. (Whilst Surge can at least be used for its dash function).

Adazahi
Invader

I are good at grammar

A·da·za·hi /ädäzähē/

Posts: 1,165
Karma: 2,201
Pilot name: ᴀᴅᴀᴢᴀʜɪ ʏᴛ
Platform: iOS
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Favorite robot: Ao Ming

[MA] Mech Rework Concepts Nov 3, 2022 17:28:21 GMT -5

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Post by Adazahi on Nov 3, 2022 17:28:21 GMT -5

Nov 3, 2022 13:56:56 GMT -5 salvia said:

Just wanted to comment quickly on your proposals, which are imaginative and certainly pertinent overall. Good job.

First off, I think you should send them to Plarium.
You have given much thought on the matter, so it'd be a waste otherwise. And one never knows, it might end up proving useful for the devs.

Paragon, Arachnos and MD in particular need more love - for sure. Their rebalancing should be a priority for the devs.

Now some proposals I don't agree with :

Sniper role : generally roles are based upon mech characteristics ; e.g. scouts are light (or supposed to be), tanks are very beefy, etc. But there's no such defined characteristics when it comes to sniping, especially with such a general purpose mech as Panther.
Aegis : I don't think either the player or his teammates should be allowed to shoot from inside. That would give them an unfair advantage. Letting teammates shoot from outside of the bubble, i.e. not blocking their line of fire, would make sense.
EMP bypass : Plarium has started this trend with Redeemer but I'm not sure it's a good thing. If a mech can ignore it, then bots such as Zéphyr and Guardian (with its EMP variant) completely lose any purpose. (Whilst Surge can at least be used for its dash function).

Thank you for your comment! Do you happen to know what the best way to reach out to Plarium with this is? I was actually intending on doing so - but first, I'd like to apply some of your feedback.

Sniper role : I play lots of games that have sniper as a dedicated role and thought it'd be cool to bring to MA - but I understand where you're coming from here, sniper can just remain as a "sub-role" of assault/support. I'll axe the role change section from what I send to Plarium.

Aegis : While i see the potential power in allowing the shield to be able to be shot through from the inside, I think that allowing it to only be shot at from the outside would create a really awkward playstyle. It's a bubble, and the point it to protect players inside - allowing it to be shot through from the outside will have most aegis players throw it in front of them and use it like a regular barrier, never really going inside. If this is the case, and the numbers don't change, Aegis just becomes a tougher panther with a weridly shaped barrier. Since there seems to be an issue with allowing it to be shot through in general, regardless of how much the numbers are tweaked, I'll create a new buff concept here - tell me what you think of this instead!

Aegis

Bubble duration 10s -> 12s
Bubble cooldown 10s -> 16s
Aegis and his teammates generate a Juggernaut-like overshield when entering the bubble
The overshield generates over time rather than being applied instantly, taking 4 seconds to reach max HP (25% generated per second)
The shield HP is determined by the Aegis' level, but it should be a decent bit less than Juggernaut's actual overshield
If you exit the bubble, you will keep the overshield, but if you don't return to the bubble within 4 seconds, it will dissapear
Going back in the bubble will regenerate the overshield if it was damaged, or apply a new one from zero if it was completely destroyed at 25% per second.

With these changes, killing players who are inside the bubble becomes incredibly hard since they regenerate a shield very quickly. The bubble becomes a very bad zone for enemies to be in, as they are put at a disadvantage - but only when inside! This makes for a significantly less oppressive change than allowing players to shoot through the bubble, since that would put any enemy in line of sight at a disadvantage. The shield will linger when exiting, allowing the bubble to be used when making a push, but it doesn't linger for long enough to be too oppressive. Snipers can wait out the 4 seconds before it dissapears before taking the shot, but brawlers may need to chew through it. The duration of the bubble is increased to allow for use of this feature and dipping in and out to get shots in while shielded, but since it's significantly stronger now, the cooldown gets increased more than the duration, making the uptime to downtime ratio 3:4 instead of 1:1.

EMP bypass : I see how it can be an issue to allow too many bots to have the ability to bypass EMP completely - I'm a Zephyr player myself and It'd be pretty stressful for bots to just ignore my EMP all the time. With Paragon and Lancer able to bypass it, 3 bots in the game would exist that would be strong counters to EMP. I'll make a couple changes to Lancer and Paragon in order to try and address this

Paragon

Boost cooldown 9s -> 8s
While boosting, Paragon cleanses and ignores all negative effects except for EMP
Additionally, Paragon gets 25% damage resistance, a 15% damage boost, and doesn’t take extra side damage or back damage while boost is active

I replaced the EMP ignore with a 15% damage boost during Boost. Paragon will still ignore other effects, like overheat, stasis, caustic blast, etc, but not EMP.

Lancer

Jumping cleanses all negative effects except for EMP and decreases sprint cooldown by 3 seconds
Speed 25km/h -> 36km/h

I'm gonna be honest, I don't even think my original buff idea was nearly enough to make Lancer viable. Something you may already know is that the jumping bots can already ignore EMP - you just need to time it well. I do this often with my tengu - since the EMP area isn't large enough to hit you at the apex of your jump, a well timed jump over an unsuspecting player will result in a wasted EMP for them and a free kill for you. It's likely a bit easier to do this with lancer, since it's jump is higher which allows for a larger margain of error. Anyway, I removed the EMP resist to make it so you must time a jump well in order to dodge EMP, and revised my original change by giving this bot easily the best mobility in the game. Since you're faster than every other bot by quite a bit, and can dodge killshot and Surge dashes with your jump, you get to decide when the fight happens. This allows an opportunistic player to fight enemies only when they have the advantage when using lancer.

Thoughts?

Last Edit: Nov 3, 2022 17:32:40 GMT -5 by Adazahi

I dunno much about bots. I just hold the red button until they stop moving.

OU812?
Fenrir

Posts: 1,640
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[MA] Mech Rework Concepts Nov 3, 2022 18:35:25 GMT -5 Adazahi likes this

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Post by OU812? on Nov 3, 2022 18:35:25 GMT -5

Sound and well thought out proposals. I really couldn’t fault any of them IMHO.

I wouldn’t mind a reduction of rocket mortars projectile speeds to give tanks some increased survivability on open maps. I’m close to wishing I’d gone with a (speedy) light-mech hanger.

salvia
Blitz

Posts: 296
Karma: 277

[MA] Mech Rework Concepts Nov 4, 2022 6:33:45 GMT -5 Adazahi likes this

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Post by salvia on Nov 4, 2022 6:33:45 GMT -5

Nov 3, 2022 17:28:21 GMT -5 Adazahi said:

Thank you for your comment! Do you happen to know what the best way to reach out to Plarium with this is?

You can either send them an email at arena.support@plarium.com (I suggest specifying in the email title that you're sending an improvement proposal), or create a thread on the official forum (which is regularly spammed and somewhat negative in tone) : plarium.com/forum/en/mech-arena/702_game-discussion/

You could first send an email, and if you don't get a confirmation that your suggestions have been forwarded to the devs, make a thread on Plarium's forum.

Nov 3, 2022 17:28:21 GMT -5 Adazahi said:

Aegis : While i see the potential power in allowing the shield to be able to be shot through from the inside, I think that allowing it to only be shot at from the outside would create a really awkward playstyle. It's a bubble, and the point it to protect players inside - allowing it to be shot through from the outside will have most aegis players throw it in front of them and use it like a regular barrier, never really going inside. If this is the case, and the numbers don't change, Aegis just becomes a tougher panther with a weridly shaped barrier. Since there seems to be an issue with allowing it to be shot through in general, regardless of how much the numbers are tweaked, I'll create a new buff concept here - tell me what you think of this instead!

I start from the assumption that Aegis was created specifically against mortar fire. Hence, even if you can't fire from inside the dome, the mech still accomplishes its core mission, which is to protect against mortars.

I also assume that the n°1 complaint which players have had Aegis got out, was that its dome was blocking ally fire.
Allowing players to shoot throught it, albeit only from the outside, would address this grievance.

Now, your new proposal for a "personal overshield generating dome" is certainly creative.

It would represent an improvement for close contact fights, e.g. when Aegis drops its dome over a control point, which enemies then attempt to retake.

I do note, however, that Aegis' dome would no longer be impervious to mortars. That's a fundamental change to the mech dynamics, and one which may not be welcome for those whoe primary concern is mortars. Because instead of avoiding shooting when they spot a dome on their radars, enemy mortars would instead start to focus on it. They'd pummel it and quickly kill off anything it contains.

***

As for the rest of your proposals, I think they're pretty attractive.