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Post by lrob on Jul 13, 2022 10:41:42 GMT -5
During the last few weeks I have been reconfiguring my hangar with some recently upgraded toys, and I have not been playing so much with mortars, even in the big open "mortar maps". However, when facing players using dual RM12, they are constantly getting less than 10 kills in 2-round battles. This started before the announcement of the fixed alert for RM, and I actually remember Koalabear mentioning something similar in a thread about a RM implant. Has anyone else noticed the same? Or it's just a wrong impression perhaps? |
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Post by Koalabear on Jul 13, 2022 12:26:27 GMT -5
There are times when it feels like I just can't miss with my RMs. But then, there are times when I can't hit anything too. It's weird. I've been trying to figure out RM flight characteristics so I've been paying more attention lately.
Here's some thoughts at random - and yes, I have the gold implant for splash radius but it's not maxed yet.
- tall building or mountains will block the RMs. I seem to remember they didn't way back when, but now, they definitely do. Even when shooting at far targets.
- actual effective range of RMs is drastically reduced. For example, don't try for targets that are well beyond 100m unless they are under stasis, shock pulse or capping a beacon
- once you've identified a human player, do NOT try to hit him/her. If they are halfway competent, they will avoid most if not all your shots
- shots fired around the minimum range of 46m will land FAST and hit hard and targets won't have as much time to escape.
- trying to hit targets at the edge of the map is an exercise in futility. The edge of the map will block most of the salvo.
- try to look up after firing to follow the flight path of the RMs. This, you will learn which structures will block the RMs.
- RM builds fall under two categories: fast and nimble and campers. The KS builds can run all over the map and can pick and choose it's own targets and is very hard to hit by red RM mechs. The campers are hard to find as they only come out of cover to fire at targets and there is no blue mech with LOS on it to light it up on the map. It's weakness of course is if there are no reds scouting, it can't find it's own targets without exposing itself to return RM fire. (yeah I've faced a lot of campers!)
Anyway, just some quick thoughts for now.
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Post by A.c.r.u.x. on Jul 13, 2022 12:56:45 GMT -5
I think there are some changes that have happened which indirectly make it seem like its less effective.
- I think pilots being more upgraded now with more HP and etc are actually coming into play a little.. tons of times I'll hit with my x2 RM10 and they just have health left whereas before they usually didn't.
- Surge/Shadow.. the surge now going invisible in its ability takes a target away to aim at and know where its at, and I'm seeing a lot more shadows in up in my level (esp AI)
- Better players either know how to somewhat counter (Have their own RM to fire back once they see you have them) or make you priority #1 once you take them out
All that said this new playoff I have 1500 pts in the kill 6mech w/o damage already and I've only played maybe 12 matches.. if you get x12+ kills w/o damage the points are doubled.
Some maps I have to understand where I'm at as it really depends where you are positioned, and sometimes above you is hindering your RM from making it in full.
My way to play with RM now is not even watch the main screen.. I watch the mini map and pick targets off that, I know the layout of each map so I know when I have a red dot highlighted if its worth firing at or not if there's a chance its below something that I cant hit anyways. Once I started doing this I've done a lot better at 10-15 per match, long as the last point above doesn't happen.
Edit: Add the radius implant when you see it offered in the daily.. that goes a long way too it seems.
Edit 2: Figured I'd pay attention even more when I did another match to see if anything else stood out..
- I generally never fire both together they are either a 1-3 seconds or so apart sometimes more.. what this does allows me to see if something I'm shooting at sprints, dashes etc.. so I can adjust and don't chance missing both on one target
- The decrease distance implant seems to help too, to Koala's point shorter distance they hit faster
- Running mine on the Redox helps when something comes close since I can slow it down, and that generally allows some AI/team member to keep me alive.
Just did a 5x5 on two arches and ended with 23Kills and 5Assists @ 3700+ SP so I deal with murder mode AI all the time
I also feel like pending where you are SP wise there are hardships humps to get over, ~3300 I was just getting destroyed in battles and would win 14-15 out 20, when I bumped over 3600 I've been only losing 1-2 out of 20 again playing solo. I've felt this along the way of certain SP levels, may just be in my head though.
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Post by S1E1 on Jul 13, 2022 15:00:53 GMT -5
It's the speed upgrade for all the AI Surges combined with all the Shadows, Killshots, even MDs. The stealth is a bit of an issue but the speed is the main thing. Makes it a lot harder to land hits from a distance, and it limits multi-kills which are a big part of how Mortars rack up tourney points. Unless the map has some good choke points, the AI just ends up clustering together a lot less because it is all moving so fast. And then you got 2 mechs with dash abilities that scoot out of the way when you fire. I play RM12s a lot in tournament (yes, I have become what I used to hate). I saw an initial dip in point earnings but I adjusted by trying to get closer when possible and being more careful to play only off the mini-map and anticipate when the AIs we're clustering together for a multi-kill. My scores are back up to normal, so I don't see any decrease in RM's capabilities, just the AI speed issue. And that there are now more Legendary pilots upping bots' HP makes sense too, I hadn't thought of that. I will note that I run a Killshot RM12, so I am much more able to get close and then retreat compared to folks who don't yet have their Killshots maxed. With all the fast mechs, stealth and dashes, it is dicier now to get in close. A.c.r.u.x. - wait, what do you mean you get double points if you get 12+ kills without damage? I didn't know that. Those are tournament points? How does it work? Does it double all your points total or points per kill for each unscathed kill after 12 or ?? |
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Post by A.c.r.u.x. on Jul 13, 2022 15:48:48 GMT -5
A.c.r.u.x. - wait, what do you mean you get double points if you get 12+ kills without damage? I didn't know that. Those are tournament points? How does it work? Does it double all your points total or points per kill for each unscathed kill after 12 or ?? Playoff not Tournament. The one objective in the playoff event is Kill 6 mechs w/o taking damage and its worth 100 points. If you kill 12, w/o damage you get 200, 18, 300 and so on.. Also playing 5x5 a match is considered 2-3 rounds.. so if in round 1 you only got 2 kills w/o damage (You wont get 100 points) but if in round 2 or 3 you got 4 more kills w/o damage it'll complete the objective and give you the 100 points for getting 6 kills w/o damage. |
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Post by OU812? on Jul 13, 2022 17:13:49 GMT -5
I just want to go on record: I HATE ROCKET MORTARS.
I usually curse those players that run them. But not you guys. You’re all ok in my book.
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Post by S1E1 on Jul 13, 2022 19:31:46 GMT -5
I think I might be worth cursing out at this point. I barely ran Rocket Mortars my first 10,000 games and hated folks who did, but now I run them all the time in Tournament. Nothing else lets you earn so many points and play less games like they do. I've even started going for 1st in Grandmaster sometimes. I've gotten to enjoy them tbh and I've become a complete 「illegitimate child」 with them.
Now that I've got my Shadow in good shape, I try not to run them in CPC much though. Sometimes I am too lazy to unequip them or have them in the mix for event tasks, but Shadow usually lets me have a good counter on hand without using RMs myself.
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Post by A.c.r.u.x. on Jul 13, 2022 20:51:33 GMT -5
I just want to go on record: I HATE ROCKET MORTARS. I usually curse those players that run them. But not you guys. You’re all ok in my book. I was the same then got tired of dealing with them so they became a counter at first.. now.. pending mode im playing they can get used often. Your shadow is a nightmare to deal with though..hah |
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Post by Koalabear on Jul 14, 2022 7:59:40 GMT -5
I just want to go on record: I HATE ROCKET MORTARS. I usually curse those players that run them. But not you guys. You’re all ok in my book. TBH, it's not personal. It's just farming in Tournament cause if you lose and still get a lot of kills, you still get decent points to move up. Yeah I didn't play Tournament much until a couple weeks ago when I decided I needed the A-coins. I tend to play the map in my KS, meaning I'll be running all over looking for those short range targets and the debuff icons. This also gives any humans the opportunity to target me - which is a double edged sword cause if they're camping, I can't see them to hit them back so it's not fair, but at the same time, it's nearly impossible to hit an aware KS with RMs. I'm almost maxed my Surge and I'm tempted just for giggles to put RMs on it for CPC play. I can freeze them, then back away under stealth and drop RMs on them at 46m. In CPC, I'll play the KS as long as I can. On most maps, there are sweet spots built just for RM builds and it's fun to look for them. For example, on the flying ship map, if you go down to the bottom level right up against the edge, you can drop RMs at relatively short ranges anywhere on the map, even center CP. Of course, if I see a human do this against me, I'll jump in my Shadow and hit them from the ledge on the top level. I think the main reason I'll never shelve my Shadow is because of RM builds. My KS is usually first out of the gate so when it dies, I lose my highest damage indirect fire build. But if the opposing team pulls out a RM build mid to late game, I use my Shadow to hunt them down. Now that I have a second stealth mech, I can use my Surge for this too. Just learning the ropes with the Surge now cause it plays completely different from the Zephyr. On a slightly different note, I'm thinking of leveling my Tengu next and am playing around with the idea of putting RM8 on it. Thoughts? |
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Post by S1E1 on Jul 14, 2022 11:17:13 GMT -5
On a slightly different note, I'm thinking of leveling my Tengu next and am playing around with the idea of putting RM8 on it. Thoughts? My understanding is that RM8 is far less effective because it fires less rockets. That matches my experience being targeted by them. Combined with needing a second set of implants levelled up, I don't know. I've thought about maybe getting RM10s myself someday as a backup and then I could just put them on a Stalker or maybe my Juggy which is less levelled, but it is probably worth looking at the database to see how big a difference there is between 8s and 10s as both fire less rockets. I have encountered some maxed light mechs in CPC with RM8a that can be difficult - Shadow and Lancer. Could work with Tengu too as the jump helps against incoming mortars. Tengu is a PITA with Shotguns though and it is pretty lethal with Jav8s as well. |
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Post by Koalabear on Jul 14, 2022 12:08:58 GMT -5
Thanks! It was just a thought I'm playing around with. RM8 fires 5 rockets, RM10 fires 6 and RM12 fires 8, so there's a big jump in hit and damage potential from 10 to 12. IDK, I was thinking of the RM8 as having potential, especially if I can get that gold splash radius implant maxed. I love JR8, but it's got it's downsides, hence the thought of trying RM8 on a light mech as a second light/fast indirect fire mech. I figured Tengu cause I can either use the ability to finish off a target or put it in Stasis while I quickly back up to minimum range and fire.
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Post by lrob on Jul 14, 2022 13:29:06 GMT -5
Thank you so much for all the answers. I think that totally makes sense. Koalabear about Tengu, I don't have RM8, but from my experience playing with Tengu, I use really frequently the butt-attack or sky strike, and after that it's more convenient to have a weapon that can attack the rear armor of the other mech. |
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Post by Koalabear on Jul 15, 2022 5:49:44 GMT -5
Thank you so much for all the answers. I think that totally makes sense. Koalabear about Tengu, I don't have RM8, but from my experience playing with Tengu, I use really frequently the butt-attack or sky strike, and after that it's more convenient to have a weapon that can attack the rear armor of the other mech. So, maybe AT10 with AT6? I'd much rather use SG8, but I don't have that. Hopefully they make it available eventually. |
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