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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 3:10:07 GMT -5
Zenits are fun to play with. It's good at getting rid of Furys and other slow bots. I also clear center beacon of Yamantau and make way for my teammates. It does take a lot of skill to use, so I'm still learning. Out of the sniper categories, Zenits are better at taking down Fury, Natasha, and Leo. I haven't hunted that many laser Leos yet, but it would take too long to take down by Trebs so you need something with more DPS. Leos have a bit more speed, but you should be able to shepherd them in and land your missiles. Fire left of them, fire right of them, then they have no where to go and will most likely give up and take the hits. Then fire at them. It uses a similar skillset as Aphids, so I've gotten better using Aphids (I think). I couldn't hit anything a week ago with Aphids. If you know how to lead your target and can predict their movements, then you should do well in Zenit Fury. If you're worried about getting damage, then you need to hunt slow, meaty target which is mostly Furys and its brethren. Then eject, and not waste time for secondary objectives. Whatever you are doing with Zenits please don't be this guy: you honestly don't need Zenit for more than first minute or two of a match. Oh, did I say "don't need"? It's more like "you absolutely CAN NOT use". You need to give Zenits a chance and let a maestro show you how it's done. That Raijin would be a perfect target for me. Do you know why? Trebs would hit its double shield. Same with KWK, which many prefer over Trebs, but still useless in this scenario. Also, the Raijin is stationary so even more perfect for long range artillery. If they are standing that close, I would get double damage too. Even without it, Zenits do a lot of damage and kill that Natasha faster than my Trebs. Plus, every sniper knows how annoying that side is, because the campers hide behind that cylindrical column. I spent more time in my Trebs waiting for them to pop out of cover, and Champion players are smart enough not to pop out of cover unlike noobs. Everytime I see a Raijin on the other side (which was possible to manipulate the matchmaker to give you), then I get a high scoring game with my Zenits. After firing my salvo of rockets, its health is drained halfway which is incredulous considering it has a high health pool. I had to check the wiki at first because I didn't know it could do that much damage.
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Post by shaolinrogue on Apr 11, 2017 3:13:19 GMT -5
Whatever you are doing with Zenits please don't be this guy: you honestly don't need Zenit for more than first minute or two of a match. Oh, did I say "don't need"? It's more like "you absolutely CAN NOT use". You need to give Zenits a chance and let a maestro show you how it's done. That Raijin would be a perfect target for me. Do you know why? Trebs would hit its double shield. Same with KWK, which many prefer over Trebs, but still useless in this scenario. Also, the Raijin is stationary so even more perfect for long range artillery. If they are standing that close, I would get double damage too. Even without it, Zenits do a lot of damage and kill that Natasha faster than my Trebs. Plus, every sniper knows how annoying that side is, because the campers hide behind that cylindrical column. I spent more time in my Trebs waiting for them to pop out of cover, and Champion players are smart enough not to pop out of cover unlike noobs. Everytime I see a Raijin on the other side (which was possible to manipulate the matchmaker to give you), then I get a high scoring game with my Zenits. After firing my salvo of rockets, its health is drained halfway which is incredulous considering it has a high health pool. I had to check the wiki at first because I didn't know it could do that much damage. Do you have a personal best score you could share from a match you spent in your Natty the whole time? End game screen shot would be great but not necessary
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 3:30:31 GMT -5
You need to give Zenits a chance and let a maestro show you how it's done. That Raijin would be a perfect target for me. Do you know why? Trebs would hit its double shield. Same with KWK, which many prefer over Trebs, but still useless in this scenario. Also, the Raijin is stationary so even more perfect for long range artillery. If they are standing that close, I would get double damage too. Even without it, Zenits do a lot of damage and kill that Natasha faster than my Trebs. Plus, every sniper knows how annoying that side is, because the campers hide behind that cylindrical column. I spent more time in my Trebs waiting for them to pop out of cover, and Champion players are smart enough not to pop out of cover unlike noobs. Everytime I see a Raijin on the other side (which was possible to manipulate the matchmaker to give you), then I get a high scoring game with my Zenits. After firing my salvo of rockets, its health is drained halfway which is incredulous considering it has a high health pool. I had to check the wiki at first because I didn't know it could do that much damage. Do you have a personal best score you could share from a match you spent in your Natty the whole time? End game screen shot would be great but not necessary Not with that platform because the Noricums detract from my primary mission objectives. They have a different range and different purpose. I don't really write down my scores so I forgot now what my best is. TBH, it was a while ago, and the number seems too high so I don't know if I used other weapons, and I haven't been able to replicate it. But for 3x level 8 Trebs, it's around 650K. No misses, fired almost everytime it was ready. My efficiency was 90%, which is prolly the most you can get unless you are a robot. For 10,10,9 Tridents, it's around 970K or so. Pretty recent, last few days. Either on Canyon or Yamantau, maybe even both.
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Post by shaolinrogue on Apr 11, 2017 3:33:39 GMT -5
Do you have a personal best score you could share from a match you spent in your Natty the whole time? End game screen shot would be great but not necessary Not with that platform because the Noricums detract from my primary mission objectives. They have a different range and different purpose. I don't really write down my scores so I forgot now what my best is. TBH, it was a while ago, and the number seems too high so I don't know if I used other weapons, and I haven't been able to replicate it. But for 3x level 8 Trebs, it's around 650K. No misses, fired almost everytime it was ready. My efficiency was 90%, which is prolly the most you can get unless you are a robot. For 10,10,9 Tridents, it's around 970K or so. Pretty recent, last few days. Either on Canyon or Yamantau, maybe even both. Thanks for the info
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 11:52:14 GMT -5
My vote is always cast as 3 KF, 1 mid, 1 long for a 5 slot hangar. Tri carn/ Tri-pin Nat/TriTri-Fury for mid, Treb Raijin/Fury/Butch (if you're that lucky) for long. Granted, the long range bot shouldn't be camped in for more than 2 minutes unless you're up on beacons. I did some napkin math awhile ago and figured that the optimal DPM to number of shots for trebs is around 12-13 seconds of charge time(kang reload time), as It retains about 90% of it's total DPM vs the full 23 second charge after factoring in the 3 second reload from continuous fire, vs DPS/DPM of a fully charged shot.
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Post by Russel on Apr 11, 2017 14:31:34 GMT -5
You need to give Zenits a chance and let a maestro show you how it's done. That Raijin would be a perfect target for me. Do you know why? Trebs would hit its double shield. Same with KWK, which many prefer over Trebs, but still useless in this scenario. Also, the Raijin is stationary so even more perfect for long range artillery. If they are standing that close, I would get double damage too. Even without it, Zenits do a lot of damage and kill that Natasha faster than my Trebs. Plus, every sniper knows how annoying that side is, because the campers hide behind that cylindrical column. I spent more time in my Trebs waiting for them to pop out of cover, and Champion players are smart enough not to pop out of cover unlike noobs. Everytime I see a Raijin on the other side (which was possible to manipulate the matchmaker to give you), then I get a high scoring game with my Zenits. After firing my salvo of rockets, its health is drained halfway which is incredulous considering it has a high health pool. I had to check the wiki at first because I didn't know it could do that much damage. Do you have a personal best score you could share from a match you spent in your Natty the whole time? End game screen shot would be great but not necessary Sadly, as you can see from "LEAVE BATTLE" button at the bottom, this was not me. I was lying dead, near enemy spawn ramp, looking at the stars, falling at me... Wait, those not the stars. Ahh, those are Zenit\Noricum barrage, hitting aimlessly at the empty battlefield.
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Post by Russel on Apr 11, 2017 14:58:05 GMT -5
<rantmode=on> I would like to tell you (probably there are people who do not know what's the big deal with the snipers) what all this butthurt with snipers about. For quite some time I was thinking that only noobs can stay in the same camper whole match, even when we are low on beacons, just pushing this big red button. I was puzzled. Noticed many times that sniper are NOT aiming at lowest health bots, NOT aiming at the heat of battle to help teammates, and just shooting biggest one, most often without a shield, and with most health. Many times on Yamantau we were just 1K hp away from staying and capping center beacon, but sniper decided to shoot fresh-spawned red Leo on the horizon.
However, some time later, I notice that many of them are actually have better hangar than me, and are scoring 500-600K a match easily. That was the moment I begin to wonder. And then I saw those rant about "oh Pixonic, why are you not letting us make more silver, I need to update my weapon so much" aaaaaand it hit me. So now I am very sorry, but if some guy is sniping for two minutes and we are loosing, I will push him off the cliff. Work well every time, just need a fast bot. If you are having fun and not contributing to blue team - well, why can't I do the same. Hopefully, player has only one high-level sniper bot, and he must select knifer next. </rantmode=off>
Now to serious business. Why being bad sniper is good, particularly on high levels. 1) Silver income is low for upgrading weapons at level 8+ 2) You are getting silver for damage, not for the win. So, if you are topdamage and your team loses, it is more profitable than if you are at the bottom, and your team wins. 3) To get more damage you need to get "sweet" shots, namely: a lot of HP, healthy (not in the battle), without an Acnile, and probably without shield (because shield\ancile HP does not count at damage score) 4) You need to spend less time walking, and more - shooting.
So, what all this stuff boil down to? You need to be stationary - so, no beacon capping You need to shoot ideally non-shielded, freshly spawned bots with big HP pool - so, no helping teammates (because if you shot at Leo left with 10K health with your Nashorn you are wasting a shot, wasting reload time, wasting aim). Also, you are not wasting your valuable time\shots at small bots (remember- maximize your damage!) - so, NO shooting enemy beacon runners. Let those beacons burn. And more than that - you are NOT interested in your team winning. Because you just can't make all those damage in 3 minutes match; you'll be better off in 10 minutes LOOSING match. You can shoot a lot of silver, you know.
And having told all that - snipers behave pretty much like parasites, taking all they need, not killing but not helping it's host, just sucking all the juices dry.
But you know what's the fun stuff? Snipers need those Silver for upgrading their weapons. They like to think "I will just temporarily camp, gather all Silver I need, and them will be wreaking havoc to the enemy!". So you updated you hangar, ditch Natashas and get into the action, only to see campers on DeadCity.
And that the "oh, COME ON" moment of sniper's life.
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Post by Firebeard on Apr 11, 2017 15:13:05 GMT -5
Russel are you saying that Snipers have no value on the battlefield and that the primary reason people use sniper weapons is to gather Silver?
I've been taken down by a Sniper who was covering a Beacon and witnessed the havoc a good Sniper can do to aid his Teammates by wearing down the opposition.
Only of late have I been actively entering Sniper nests and disrupting their flow. I, personally, would be there offering support as a Sniper.
My, opinion ..
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Post by shaolinrogue on Apr 11, 2017 18:15:58 GMT -5
<rantmode=on> I would like to tell you (probably there are people who do not know what's the big deal with the snipers) what all this butthurt with snipers about. For quite some time I was thinking that only noobs can stay in the same camper whole match, even when we are low on beacons, just pushing this big red button. I was puzzled. Noticed many times that sniper are NOT aiming at lowest health bots, NOT aiming at the heat of battle to help teammates, and just shooting biggest one, most often without a shield, and with most health. Many times on Yamantau we were just 1K hp away from staying and capping center beacon, but sniper decided to shoot fresh-spawned red Leo on the horizon. However, some time later, I notice that many of them are actually have better hangar than me, and are scoring 500-600K a match easily. That was the moment I begin to wonder. And then I saw those rant about "oh Pixonic, why are you not letting us make more silver, I need to update my weapon so much" aaaaaand it hit me. So now I am very sorry, but if some guy is sniping for two minutes and we are loosing, I will push him off the cliff. Work well every time, just need a fast bot. If you are having fun and not contributing to blue team - well, why can't I do the same. Hopefully, player has only one high-level sniper bot, and he must select knifer next. </rantmode=off> Now to serious business. Why being bad sniper is good, particularly on high levels. 1) Silver income is low for upgrading weapons at level 8+ 2) You are getting silver for damage, not for the win. So, if you are topdamage and your team loses, it is more profitable than if you are at the bottom, and your team wins. 3) To get more damage you need to get "sweet" shots, namely: a lot of HP, healthy (not in the battle), without an Acnile, and probably without shield (because shield\ancile HP does not count at damage score) 4) You need to spend less time walking, and more - shooting. So, what all this stuff boil down to? You need to be stationary - so, no beacon capping You need to shoot ideally non-shielded, freshly spawned bots with big HP pool - so, no helping teammates (because if you shot at Leo left with 10K health with your Nashorn you are wasting a shot, wasting reload time, wasting aim). Also, you are not wasting your valuable time\shots at small bots (remember- maximize your damage!) - so, NO shooting enemy beacon runners. Let those beacons burn. And more than that - you are NOT interested in your team winning. Because you just can't make all those damage in 3 minutes match; you'll be better off in 10 minutes LOOSING match. You can shoot a lot of silver, you know. And having told all that - snipers behave pretty much like parasites, taking all they need, not killing but not helping it's host, just sucking all the juices dry. But you know what's the fun stuff? Snipers need those Silver for upgrading their weapons. They like to think "I will just temporarily camp, gather all Silver I need, and them will be wreaking havoc to the enemy!". So you updated you hangar, ditch Natashas and get into the action, only to see campers on DeadCity. And that the "oh, COME ON" moment of sniper's life. You may not understand the logic of a Snipers choices from your perspective of the battle, it's referred to as Overwatch. I rarely play Mid/Snipe myself but when I do, I look at the whole battlefield and pick targets after considering: - Does my team already have that enemy/area under control & the target will be soon dead anyway? - Would it be more effective to soften up/pick off the enemy support coming to reinforce the front line so they are easy to deal with when they reach my teammates? - Which have enemies which weapons vs. the weapons my teammates have?... who is the biggest threat?.... who needs help? - Are there enemies flanking my team they are not aware of that I should focus on and hopefully draw their attention to? - Should I be cleaning up wounded enemies or suppressing enemy snipers/mid range so my knifers can advance? - Can I do no further good as overwatch/It's time to ditch & get hands dirty? There is a lot to consider beyond who is within range when everyone is. A GOOD sniper assesses all that & is in position for his chosen target in time for the end of his reload cycle. Finding a good overwatch spot that provides cover & maximum target selection with minimal movement is not necessarily laziness, it is like knowing where to find the best ambush spots as a knifer...comes from experience. Being a Pro-Active sniper or sharpshooter can not only shut the other team down, prioritizing your targets will maximize your contribution to your team & net you more damage than waiting for "lemmings" Also, extending matches to maximize silver is not efficient. Fast violent matches that avoid the late game "hide & seek"/"peek-a-boo" stage where your DPM (Damage/Minute) will net you a better SPM (Silver/Minute) rate. Depending on the map this is even better for the "selfish" sniper because if he takes half of everyone's health as they walk out of spawn, the rest of his team has to walk over there first and share the leftovers between them After they finish off a bot or 2 they may die & have to walk all the way back to re-engage... sometimes the match is over by then...all the while your weapons are humming away helping you & your team. Remember just because you don't see another person's logic doesn't mean they are not using any, it's a matter of perspective That being said only 1-2 Snipers, 1-2 Midrange no more per squad is ideal for most maps, if you all drop range or knifers it should be an unspoken rule that the ones with the best weapons/bots for that role stay, the rest either eject and swap or at least charge in & go out in style before switching.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 18:54:52 GMT -5
<rantmode=on> I would like to tell you (probably there are people who do not know what's the big deal with the snipers) what all this butthurt with snipers about. For quite some time I was thinking that only noobs can stay in the same camper whole match, even when we are low on beacons, just pushing this big red button. I was puzzled. Noticed many times that sniper are NOT aiming at lowest health bots, NOT aiming at the heat of battle to help teammates, and just shooting biggest one, most often without a shield, and with most health. Many times on Yamantau we were just 1K hp away from staying and capping center beacon, but sniper decided to shoot fresh-spawned red Leo on the horizon. However, some time later, I notice that many of them are actually have better hangar than me, and are scoring 500-600K a match easily. That was the moment I begin to wonder. And then I saw those rant about "oh Pixonic, why are you not letting us make more silver, I need to update my weapon so much" aaaaaand it hit me. So now I am very sorry, but if some guy is sniping for two minutes and we are loosing, I will push him off the cliff. Work well every time, just need a fast bot. If you are having fun and not contributing to blue team - well, why can't I do the same. Hopefully, player has only one high-level sniper bot, and he must select knifer next. </rantmode=off> Now to serious business. Why being bad sniper is good, particularly on high levels. 1) Silver income is low for upgrading weapons at level 8+ 2) You are getting silver for damage, not for the win. So, if you are topdamage and your team loses, it is more profitable than if you are at the bottom, and your team wins. 3) To get more damage you need to get "sweet" shots, namely: a lot of HP, healthy (not in the battle), without an Acnile, and probably without shield (because shield\ancile HP does not count at damage score) 4) You need to spend less time walking, and more - shooting. So, what all this stuff boil down to? You need to be stationary - so, no beacon capping You need to shoot ideally non-shielded, freshly spawned bots with big HP pool - so, no helping teammates (because if you shot at Leo left with 10K health with your Nashorn you are wasting a shot, wasting reload time, wasting aim). Also, you are not wasting your valuable time\shots at small bots (remember- maximize your damage!) - so, NO shooting enemy beacon runners. Let those beacons burn. And more than that - you are NOT interested in your team winning. Because you just can't make all those damage in 3 minutes match; you'll be better off in 10 minutes LOOSING match. You can shoot a lot of silver, you know. And having told all that - snipers behave pretty much like parasites, taking all they need, not killing but not helping it's host, just sucking all the juices dry. But you know what's the fun stuff? Snipers need those Silver for upgrading their weapons. They like to think "I will just temporarily camp, gather all Silver I need, and them will be wreaking havoc to the enemy!". So you updated you hangar, ditch Natashas and get into the action, only to see campers on DeadCity. And that the "oh, COME ON" moment of sniper's life. You may not understand the logic of a Snipers choices from your perspective of the battle, it's referred to as Overwatch. I rarely play Mid/Snipe myself but when I do, I look at the whole battlefield and pick targets after considering: - Does my team already have that enemy/area under control & the target will be soon dead anyway? - Would it be more effective to soften up/pick off the enemy support coming to reinforce the front line so they are easy to deal with when they reach my teammates? - Which have enemies which weapons vs. the weapons my teammates have?... who is the biggest threat?.... who needs help? - Are there enemies flanking my team they are not aware of that I should focus on and hopefully draw their attention to? - Should I be cleaning up wounded enemies or suppressing enemy snipers/mid range so my knifers can advance? - Can I do no further good as overwatch/It's time to ditch & get hands dirty? There is a lot to consider beyond who is within range when everyone is. A GOOD sniper assesses all that & is in position for his chosen target in time for the end of his reload cycle. Finding a good overwatch spot that provides cover & maximum target selection with minimal movement is not necessarily laziness, it is like knowing where to find the best ambush spots as a knifer...comes from experience. Being a Pro-Active sniper or sharpshooter can not only shut the other team down, prioritizing your targets will maximize your contribution to your team & net you more damage than waiting for "lemmings" Also, extending matches to maximize silver is not efficient. Fast violent matches that avoid the late game "hide & seek"/"peek-a-boo" stage where your DPM (Damage/Minute) will net you a better SPM (Silver/Minute) rate. Depending on the map this is even better for the "selfish" sniper because if he takes half of everyone's health as they walk out of spawn, the rest of his team has to walk over there first and share the leftovers between them After they finish off a bot or 2 they may die & have to walk all the way back to re-engage... sometimes the match is over by then...all the while your weapons are humming away helping you & your team. Remember just because you don't see another person's logic doesn't mean they are not using any, it's a matter of perspective That being said only 1-2 Snipers, 1-2 Midrange no more per squad is ideal for most maps, if you all drop range or knifers it should be an unspoken rule that the ones with the best weapons/bots for that role stay, the rest either eject and swap or at least charge in & go out in style before switching. I can't speak for other snipers, but I mostly play in my Fury Trebs when snipering. It takes 20 seconds to reload, so every shot is worth a lot and can drastically drop my damage if I miss or use more than necessary to kill a bot. I try to only fire when at full strength, but I do occasionally fire at less when I need to finish someone off. Most of the time, I can picking off Trident Furys and other mid-range bots that can stop my team from advancing. So my main targets are Furys and Carnages with my Trebs. It's hard for any bot to get within knife fighting range of well played Carnages, and rockets will be absorbed so a Carnage Zeus or Trident is very high priority. I consider secondary mission objective to be taking out light bots like Stalkers, Gepards, and Gareth if I can get an angle on his flank, since they tend to run amok and can quickly lose a game for you plus they tend to be a big nuisance for even knife-fighters. Don't get me wrong, even though I say it's secondary, it might be my highest priority target and it's possible to pre-empt my current task of taking out a Fury. Also, since I know my Fury is not capping beacons, I need to control the battlefield. Lastly, I usually don't participate in the main battle with knife-fighters, since it gets away from the goals. If it gets to that, then it's time to eject and pick a knife fighter. So I don't target Leos. My philosophy doesn't involve helping killing almost dead reds since it would distract me. It would be bad on so many levels (wasting my ammo, shooting red that will soon be dead, letting more dangerous bots roam around). To me, it's about either winning the battle or winning the war. Trust me, I've tried that. When I go for the latter, I shut down their mid-range and most of the time, that influences the outcome of the match. Also, I don't need any more silver nor gold. I have a huge reserve.
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Post by shaolinrogue on Apr 11, 2017 19:02:05 GMT -5
You may not understand the logic of a Snipers choices from your perspective of the battle, it's referred to as Overwatch. I rarely play Mid/Snipe myself but when I do, I look at the whole battlefield and pick targets after considering: - Does my team already have that enemy/area under control & the target will be soon dead anyway? - Would it be more effective to soften up/pick off the enemy support coming to reinforce the front line so they are easy to deal with when they reach my teammates? - Which have enemies which weapons vs. the weapons my teammates have?... who is the biggest threat?.... who needs help? - Are there enemies flanking my team they are not aware of that I should focus on and hopefully draw their attention to? - Should I be cleaning up wounded enemies or suppressing enemy snipers/mid range so my knifers can advance? - Can I do no further good as overwatch/It's time to ditch & get hands dirty? There is a lot to consider beyond who is within range when everyone is. A GOOD sniper assesses all that & is in position for his chosen target in time for the end of his reload cycle. Finding a good overwatch spot that provides cover & maximum target selection with minimal movement is not necessarily laziness, it is like knowing where to find the best ambush spots as a knifer...comes from experience. Being a Pro-Active sniper or sharpshooter can not only shut the other team down, prioritizing your targets will maximize your contribution to your team & net you more damage than waiting for "lemmings" Also, extending matches to maximize silver is not efficient. Fast violent matches that avoid the late game "hide & seek"/"peek-a-boo" stage where your DPM (Damage/Minute) will net you a better SPM (Silver/Minute) rate. Depending on the map this is even better for the "selfish" sniper because if he takes half of everyone's health as they walk out of spawn, the rest of his team has to walk over there first and share the leftovers between them After they finish off a bot or 2 they may die & have to walk all the way back to re-engage... sometimes the match is over by then...all the while your weapons are humming away helping you & your team. Remember just because you don't see another person's logic doesn't mean they are not using any, it's a matter of perspective That being said only 1-2 Snipers, 1-2 Midrange no more per squad is ideal for most maps, if you all drop range or knifers it should be an unspoken rule that the ones with the best weapons/bots for that role stay, the rest either eject and swap or at least charge in & go out in style before switching. I can't speak for other snipers, but I mostly play in my Fury Trebs when snipering. It takes 20 seconds to reload, so every shot is worth a lot and can drastically drop my damage if I miss or use more than necessary to kill a bot. I try to only fire when at full strength, but I do occasionally fire at less when I need to finish someone off. Most of the time, I can picking off Trident Furys and other mid-range bots that can stop my team from advancing. So my main targets are Furys and Carnages with my Trebs. It's hard for any bot to get within knife fighting range of well played Carnages, and rockets will be absorbed so a Carnage Zeus or Trident is very high priority. I consider secondary mission objective to be taking out light bots like Stalkers, Gepards, and Gareth if I can get an angle on his flank, since they tend to run amok and can quickly lose a game for you plus they tend to be a big nuisance for even knife-fighters. Don't get me wrong, even though I say it's secondary, it might be my highest priority target and it's possible to pre-empt my current task of taking out a Fury. Also, since I know my Fury is not capping beacons, I need to control the battlefield. Lastly, I usually don't participate in the main battle with knife-fighters, since it gets away from the goals. If it gets to that, then it's time to eject and pick a knife fighter. So I don't target Leos. My philosophy doesn't involve helping killing almost dead reds since it would distract me. It would be bad on so many levels (wasting my ammo, shooting red that will soon be dead, letting more dangerous bots roam around). To me, it's about either winning the battle or winning the war. Trust me, I've tried that. When I go for the latter, I shut down their mid-range and most of the time, that influences the outcome of the battle. Also, I don't need any more silver nor gold. I have a huge reserve. ^^This is how to do it.... be this guy
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Post by Russel on Apr 12, 2017 1:06:47 GMT -5
shaolinrogue : First of all - love you channel, man =) It is a very different type of War Robots video indeed. but I must disagree with one of your statement here: "Also, extending matches to maximize silver is not efficient. Fast violent matches that avoid the late game "hide & seek"/"peek-a-boo" stage where your DPM (Damage/Minute) will net you a better SPM (Silver/Minute) rate. Depending on the map this is even better for the "selfish" sniper because if he takes half of everyone's health as they walk out of spawn, the rest of his team has to walk over there first and share the leftovers between them After they finish off a bot or 2 they may die & have to walk all the way back to re-engage... sometimes the match is over by then...all the while your weapons are humming away helping you & your team." Well.. no. You can make a good shot in a Trebuchet machine less than three times a minute. That's pure mathematics - if your battle 4 minutes long - then you are making 12 shots, and if it's 10 minutes - it's 30 shots. Your best bet to maximize silver is to shot freshly spawned bot every 23 seconds exactly for 10 minutes. @macwarrobots : How long have you been playing? I am 33mln silver now, ~8lvl hangar, and I can predict when my silver will be zero, with all those lvl10-12 prices. I do not argue with any point of view listed here, it's all very true and good here in a forum, but sadly it's a whole different ballgame in a battlefield (iOS diamond at least) - there are about 3 matches for every 10 when you are flying like a ghost after fierce 4-6 minutes of a battle and see 2-3 blue snipers trying to snipe down enemy team helplessly. The problem with snipers is so that you need to be EXCELLENT at it - have EXCELLENT situation awareness, EXCELLENT weaponry, EXCELLENT timing, and a will to eject from bot when needed. I've seen exactly five battles last three months with EXCELLENT snipers, three of which were on Canyon, two on Yamantau. And countless times I've seen "duels", where enemy snipers\support from center beacon were shooting our snipers at home beacon. This looks funny, especially at the Springfield. I was able to circle all those guys doing very important jobs, in a Cossack and get two beacons for our team, ending with 110K damage and a 5 gold. And I've lost account how many times I've captured enemy spawn beacon at Yamantau, while their snipers were fiercely pounding cover at the center beacon. One time even did that in a Leo. So, what all you guys are saying is a very good in theory. On practice I am seeing a lot of battles when winning side is 200-300K damage on average, and our loosing side is 600-500-300-300-300-300K damage, being two snipers and four dead knife fighters, struggling to fight four enemy knife fighters and two support, surprisingly not being shot by our snipers. In short - it is better to be bad knife fighter, that bad sniper. It is good to make target practice with a sniper for 2-3 minutes in battle when you just need experience, and then change bot to help your team. It is good to be a great sniper with all weapons leveled up properly - that should be an advice for a beginner sniper. But if it's the middle of the battle and you are loosing badly - it's time to change a bot and get down and dirty - either to flank 'em with a beacon runner, or to brawl at the center. There are too many people who thinks that staying alive till the end of the battle it's THE ultimate goal, and being in a sniper all battle long is a good strategy to hit that goal.
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Post by shaolinrogue on Apr 12, 2017 1:47:14 GMT -5
shaolinrogue : First of all - love you channel, man =) It is a very different type of War Robots video indeed. but I must disagree with one of your statement here: "Also, extending matches to maximize silver is not efficient. Fast violent matches that avoid the late game "hide & seek"/"peek-a-boo" stage where your DPM (Damage/Minute) will net you a better SPM (Silver/Minute) rate. Depending on the map this is even better for the "selfish" sniper because if he takes half of everyone's health as they walk out of spawn, the rest of his team has to walk over there first and share the leftovers between them After they finish off a bot or 2 they may die & have to walk all the way back to re-engage... sometimes the match is over by then...all the while your weapons are humming away helping you & your team." Well.. no. You can make a good shot in a Trebuchet machine less than three times a minute. That's pure mathematics - if your battle 4 minutes long - then you are making 12 shots, and if it's 10 minutes - it's 30 shots. Your best bet to maximize silver is to shot freshly spawned bot every 23 seconds exactly for 10 minutes. @macwarrobots : How long have you been playing? I am 33mln silver now, ~8lvl hangar, and I can predict when my silver will be zero, with all those lvl10-12 prices. I do not argue with any point of view listed here, it's all very true and good here in a forum, but sadly it's a whole different ballgame in a battlefield (iOS diamond at least) - there are about 3 matches for every 10 when you are flying like a ghost after fierce 4-6 minutes of a battle and see 2-3 blue snipers trying to snipe down enemy team helplessly. The problem with snipers is so that you need to be EXCELLENT at it - have EXCELLENT situation awareness, EXCELLENT weaponry, EXCELLENT timing, and a will to eject from bot when needed. I've seen exactly five battles last three months with EXCELLENT snipers, three of which were on Canyon, two on Yamantau. And countless times I've seen "duels", where enemy snipers\support from center beacon were shooting our snipers at home beacon. This looks funny, especially at the Springfield. I was able to circle all those guys doing very important jobs, in a Cossack and get two beacons for our team, ending with 110K damage and a 5 gold. And I've lost account how many times I've captured enemy spawn beacon at Yamantau, while their snipers were fiercely pounding cover at the center beacon. One time even did that in a Leo. So, what all you guys are saying is a very good in theory. On practice I am seeing a lot of battles when winning side is 200-300K damage on average, and our loosing side is 600-500-300-300-300-300K damage, being two snipers and four dead knife fighters, struggling to fight four enemy knife fighters and two support, surprisingly not being shot by our snipers. In short - it is better to be bad knife fighter, that bad sniper. It is good to make target practice with a sniper for 2-3 minutes in battle when you just need experience, and then change bot to help your team. It is good to be a great sniper with all weapons leveled up properly - that should be an advice for a beginner sniper. But if it's the middle of the battle and you are loosing badly - it's time to change a bot and get down and dirty - either to flank 'em with a beacon runner, or to brawl at the center. There are too many people who thinks that staying alive till the end of the battle it's THE ultimate goal, and being in a sniper all battle long is a good strategy to hit that goal. Thanks for the kudos on the channel! I can't speak for ios diamond first hand but I believe it is equivalent to Android low gold high silver, someone else would have to confirm. At that level, snipers are generally still leveling their gear & honing their craft & I don't doubt you have seen your fair share of bad ones, plenty of bad knifers in mid game as well. Large maps with clear line of sight & a long walk to center beacon are favorable to be short because the front line shares what's left of what you pick off on it's way in. As they have to walk back you are still damaging Reds. I've been frustrated plenty of times as a knifer having a blast at the enemy spawn on Springfield, I die & the snipers & mid-range bots tear everyone up before the rest of us make it back. Maps with lots of cover & closer beacons are definitely better to be long. Targets are harder to get at & the knifers see most of the action so you need to outlive the more aggressive ones & hope to accumulate more damage over the whole match. Of course, none of us are theory-crafting & are discussing what we have seen on the battlefield, so we are all rights Best thing about the forums is we have the opportunity to compare notes & discuss our perspectives I agree 100% with what you added above, previously I was commenting on some of the behaviours you were reporting as telltale signs of bad snipers & simply wanted to point out that some of that is legit proper sniper stuffs I did not mean to give the impression that you were necessarily wrong in your assessment of those specific players. As far as bad snipers vs. bad knifers, the better one to be will be map/MM dependent. I'd rather have a couple so so snipers on springfield than knifers that don't know how to keep out of their line of sight as they advance. If it's dead city, other way around. Both leave you short on beacons & it's best not to be either
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Post by Russel on Apr 12, 2017 5:32:27 GMT -5
Thank you for great answer indeed!
First of all, I need to address my "silver-eager parasite snipers" previous paragraph - many of those were leaving non-camping maps, and I see less and less of them after introduction of tanker's queue. I hope they will die out peacefully at the end. So I hope my idea would be irrelevant in near future.
Now I just need to fine-tune some of the saying to get the idea right:
1) Player who has little experience and have low-level weapons will be weak sniper and weak knife-fighter. However, any knife-fighter can hold enemy for at least a couple of seconds, can take enemy salvo for you, and can occasionally grab a beacon. Bad sniper usually can't make any of that. That's my point on "bad knifer is better than a bad sniper". And everybody is bad at the beginning of the game. By being knifer at the start you contribute to your team more.
2) There are some people at the forum who describe how EXCELLENT sniper should behave. I have seen that a few times indeed, so I believe that everybody who describes themselves at the forum as a good sniper - good at it indeed. I actually might saw those three good snipers in a few great sniping battles that I participated in =) However, the way you describe it may get the idea to beginners that being sniper is easy - you just need to make some money for Fury and tripple Trebuchet. I believe that this is the root of the whole "lousy snipers everywhere" situation.
So what is my point, you may wonder. I ask you guys to put "situation awareness" and "will to sacrifice your sniping bot" as first two things that new sniper-player must have, and rate it much higher than any actual weapon and\or tactics, because many high-level players are taking this as granted, and it is not. However simple (stupid?) that may sound, I believe lack of those two reasons are underestimated in War Robots community.
P.s. sorry for many re-edits here - but I must put a disclaimer that all abovesaid is about SOLO play only. I believe for clan battles situation is VERY different, like "another planet" kind of different. So all you guys who are coming from clans\squads - I have no right to argue with you, as I have zero experience at clan battles.
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Post by GreenFace on Apr 12, 2017 6:47:05 GMT -5
Long rangers are known because of their effectiveness (less shots per kill). That puts "fear of God" upon their opponent's mind psychologically, so their presence is often enough to block a larger force's movement. They hold enemy's movement by fear, so to become necessary, they first should be feared!
Therefore, imho long range weapons in War Robots are useless (in concept). Their damage is big, but not big enough to put terror. In War Robots, we often keep walking to a direction even after we know there's sniper in front of us (try that on Battlefield or else, good luck). The bots HP is too much compared to the long ranger damage.
But if the weapons can deliver at most 2 shots per killing, then their purpose is becoming significant. Until then, I think it's not really necessary.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 6:58:02 GMT -5
Well.. no. You can make a good shot in a Trebuchet machine less than three times a minute. That's pure mathematics - if your battle 4 minutes long - then you are making 12 shots, and if it's 10 minutes - it's 30 shots. Your best bet to maximize silver is to shot freshly spawned bot every 23 seconds exactly for 10 minutes. @macwarrobots : How long have you been playing? I am 33mln silver now, ~8lvl hangar, and I can predict when my silver will be zero, with all those lvl10-12 prices. I do not argue with any point of view listed here, it's all very true and good here in a forum, but sadly it's a whole different ballgame in a battlefield (iOS diamond at least) - there are about 3 matches for every 10 when you are flying like a ghost after fierce 4-6 minutes of a battle and see 2-3 blue snipers trying to snipe down enemy team helplessly. The problem with snipers is so that you need to be EXCELLENT at it - have EXCELLENT situation awareness, EXCELLENT weaponry, EXCELLENT timing, and a will to eject from bot when needed. I've seen exactly five battles last three months with EXCELLENT snipers, three of which were on Canyon, two on Yamantau. And countless times I've seen "duels", where enemy snipers\support from center beacon were shooting our snipers at home beacon. This looks funny, especially at the Springfield. I was able to circle all those guys doing very important jobs, in a Cossack and get two beacons for our team, ending with 110K damage and a 5 gold. And I've lost account how many times I've captured enemy spawn beacon at Yamantau, while their snipers were fiercely pounding cover at the center beacon. One time even did that in a Leo. I've been playing 7 months now. I was given a guest account, so I'm on iOS Expert now. Diamond is pretty horrible, esp. the D3 tier. So you're not gonna find many good teammates at that tier. I know because I still get stuck with them. At the top, things are different. I get squadded with higher tiers, so they are frequently maxed out. So a Butch Treb can tear your team apart, and would drain half my poor Griffin's health before he even gets into the battle. I leave my sniper underleveled because I have lots of bots and weapons. So it's not that effective, so I need to be more careful with my shots. If I see a sniper next to me, lots of times I'll do more damage than him, but he'll have higher level Trebs. Like I said, Champion snipers are generally pretty good. So you're have a different opinion of them once you get up there. Yes, if there is a pro sniper on the other side, it's very tough to get him. Then I'll support my team, and wait for an opening with the goal of maiming him before I eject. A Fury I might leave and eject myself, but a Butch can stay in his bot and basically knife-fight with his Trebs so he's very dangerous. If I eject and I'm running mostly squishy bots, then it's not smart to lose all my bots until the threat (that max level Butch) is gone. At higher tiers, everyone will keep their head down so if you're the only one running around the map, then guess who will be hit. Even running around the map, higher tiers do this better to avoid danger like Trebs and Tridents. I think you'll see this when you get up to Diamond 1, but in the mean time take a look at old threads when the new matchmaker came out. So many complained that they can't run out in the open to get beacons in their light bot, got 2 hit killed by snipers. IOW, you're really complaining about that snipers are bad, but in reality, the players are bad. I have 220M silver and weapons at level 10, a few at 11, some lower. All my bots are at 9, except my Fujin which is at 11.
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Post by Russel on Apr 12, 2017 7:20:31 GMT -5
Well.. no. You can make a good shot in a Trebuchet machine less than three times a minute. That's pure mathematics - if your battle 4 minutes long - then you are making 12 shots, and if it's 10 minutes - it's 30 shots. Your best bet to maximize silver is to shot freshly spawned bot every 23 seconds exactly for 10 minutes. @macwarrobots : How long have you been playing? I am 33mln silver now, ~8lvl hangar, and I can predict when my silver will be zero, with all those lvl10-12 prices. I do not argue with any point of view listed here, it's all very true and good here in a forum, but sadly it's a whole different ballgame in a battlefield (iOS diamond at least) - there are about 3 matches for every 10 when you are flying like a ghost after fierce 4-6 minutes of a battle and see 2-3 blue snipers trying to snipe down enemy team helplessly. The problem with snipers is so that you need to be EXCELLENT at it - have EXCELLENT situation awareness, EXCELLENT weaponry, EXCELLENT timing, and a will to eject from bot when needed. I've seen exactly five battles last three months with EXCELLENT snipers, three of which were on Canyon, two on Yamantau. And countless times I've seen "duels", where enemy snipers\support from center beacon were shooting our snipers at home beacon. This looks funny, especially at the Springfield. I was able to circle all those guys doing very important jobs, in a Cossack and get two beacons for our team, ending with 110K damage and a 5 gold. And I've lost account how many times I've captured enemy spawn beacon at Yamantau, while their snipers were fiercely pounding cover at the center beacon. One time even did that in a Leo. I've been playing 7 months now. I was given a guest account, so I'm on iOS Expert now. Diamond is pretty horrible, esp. the D3 tier. So you're not gonna find many good teammates at that tier. I know because I still get stuck with them. At the top, things are different. I get squadded with higher tiers, so they are frequently maxed out. So a Butch Treb can tear your team apart, and would drain half my poor Griffin's health before he even gets into the battle. I leave my sniper underleveled because I have lots of bots and weapons. So it's not that effective, so I need to be more careful with my shots. If I see a sniper next to me, lots of times I'll do more damage than him, but he'll have higher level Trebs. Like I said, Champion snipers are generally pretty good. So you're have a different opinion of them once you get up there. Yes, if there is a pro sniper on the other side, it's very tough to get him. Then I'll support my team, and wait for an opening with the goal of maiming him before I eject. A Fury I might leave and eject myself, but a Butch can stay in his bot and basically knife-fight with his Trebs so he's very dangerous. If I eject and I'm running mostly squishy bots, then it's not smart to lose all my bots until the threat (that max level Butch) is gone. At higher tiers, everyone will keep their head down so if you're the only one running around the map, then guess who will be hit. Even running around the map, higher tiers do this better to avoid danger like Trebs and Tridents. I think you'll see this when you get up to Diamond 1, but in the mean time take a look at old threads when the new matchmaker came out. So many complained that they can't run out in the open to get beacons in their light bot, got 2 hit killed by snipers. IOW, you're really complaining about that snipers are bad, but in reality, the players are bad. I have 220M silver and weapons at level 10, a few at 11, some lower. All my bots are at 9, except my Fujin which is at 11. Thanks for giving me hope! I hope thing got better in a week when I get to top diamond. Meanwhile, you stated exactly what my post was about. This thread is asking for help about snipers (obviously topic caster is NOT in Expert\Master\Champion league), and to provide good help for such players is to state that: 1) If you are going to be a GOOD sniper - you need to learn situation awareness. It matters more than weapon\bot configuration. 2) If situation calls for a bot change - do it. If your shot is taking a minute or, God forbid, more - then you need to eject and choose another bot. If enemies hiding and you can't hit them (and your team is low on beacon) - eject. @macwarrobots: I am not getting dynamics at top tier yet; but according to basic calculation you can take about nine heavy weapons from level 11 to level 12 with that. And you need to earn a couple of millions per day just to keep you silver at the same level - I mean that upgrading Trebuchet 11-12 eats 26m in 4days, so you need to be making about 6m per day for four days just to not loose money on upgrading. I wonder, because for me in last two month longest single idle gap (without upgrades) was ~1 hour. In other words, I am constantly upgrading something, and trying to level silver spent on upgrades with my income (Premium status for testWR help pretty much with that). So, are you, top-tier guys, making 6+ millions per day, or you are not upgrading weapons past 10\11 ?
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