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Post by Redfiend on Oct 29, 2021 10:33:54 GMT -5
Once again I've found myself playing this game. I was actually curious about seeing if the MM has improved at all (EXP MM metrics vs actual games vs Division)
I kind of feel like the AI should be tied to division, with the strongest being MAXED maxed.
The division score would mean something, as the AI act as the "stabilizer" to offput any population or MM timer problems.
Without some kind of control, everyone eventually gets funneled to the top.
If it's still linear(exp path) I can see this game suffering from success with the incoming whale population. It would basically look like there wasn't a MM at all.
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Post by reconnecting on Oct 29, 2021 16:05:19 GMT -5
I think the consensus is that SP controls MM. Yes? And Welcome Back Redfiend!  |
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Post by Redfiend on Oct 29, 2021 21:35:35 GMT -5
I think the consensus is that SP controls MM. Yes? And Welcome Back Redfiend! SP hasn't affected MM since they stopped displaying SP pre match. |
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GenValentine
Destrier
Posts: 93
Karma: 50
Pilot name: GenValentine
MA Pilot ID: 14976873
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Post by GenValentine on Oct 29, 2021 23:17:39 GMT -5
Lifted my post from another thread. Seems to be relevant here.
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And its rather silly how clunky they're making out to be. I would imagine they would just use an algorithm that uses several variables with weights for each.
XP (0.25) + SP (0.25) + Division (0.10) + AgeInDays (0.10) + DualCopyProto (0.05) + DualCopyExotic (0.03) + DualCopyRare (0.015) + etc etc
Lastly, they can copy similar league ranking systems as other games where points are gained/deducted for winning/losing. This will inevitably push competitive players to the top. Downside for Plarium is that it will not please whales who enjoy chomping down on little planktons.
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Post by reconnecting on Oct 30, 2021 15:12:20 GMT -5
I think the consensus is that SP controls MM. Yes? And Welcome Back Redfiend! SP hasn't affected MM since they stopped displaying SP pre match. So what determines Matchmaking? |
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Post by Redfiend on Oct 31, 2021 10:56:58 GMT -5
reconnecting progression on the XP track. Xp is limited to 1K per day(except weekly missions). Completing the EXP track takes about 300 days. 50k XP: R3 AI 100k XP: R4 AI 200k XP: R4 AI+ Prototype AI/R6 weapons 300k Max bracket.
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Post by Redfiend on Oct 31, 2021 22:47:48 GMT -5
Taking everything I learned from prior runs into this one. From here on out, it's R4, then weapons, weapons, and weapons. Not ranking mechs up unless I have the weapon sets to fill their EN. If Missille Rack 12 comes out anytime soon(or I get a DL12 for a steep discount), I'll add a third medium mech. Probably Zephyr so the team is well rounded. Paragon and Arachnos are both in the same HP teir, the one just below Guardian and the Tanks. Arachnos is too slow for ranged. It needs burst(with the turret to kill magic pixels) or sustained fire(setting up somewhere and just being a general nuisance). It'll definitely be the Stasis boi. I rather like the run n gun with snipers on Paragon. Killy and Jug are self explainatory.  |
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Post by punishingcossack on Oct 31, 2021 23:35:11 GMT -5
Lifted my post from another thread. Seems to be relevant here. --- And its rather silly how clunky they're making out to be. I would imagine they would just use an algorithm that uses several variables with weights for each. XP (0.25) + SP (0.25) + Division (0.10) + AgeInDays (0.10) + DualCopyProto (0.05) + DualCopyExotic (0.03) + DualCopyRare (0.015) + etc etc Lastly, they can copy similar league ranking systems as other games where points are gained/deducted for winning/losing. This will inevitably push competitive players to the top. Downside for Plarium is that it will not please whales who enjoy chomping down on little planktons. no, I think XP is actually the first filter, and not part of a weighted formula (at least not initially), b/c I never face low XP high SP players (although I wished I did). I have no secret knowledge or anything, but MM probably looks for players within X difference of your XP to start, and if it can't find anyone within Y seconds, it relaxes that threshold. If we crowdsource data, we could probably get more insight into MM's formula. |
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Post by Redfiend on Nov 1, 2021 3:08:20 GMT -5
Lifted my post from another thread. Seems to be relevant here. --- And its rather silly how clunky they're making out to be. I would imagine they would just use an algorithm that uses several variables with weights for each. XP (0.25) + SP (0.25) + Division (0.10) + AgeInDays (0.10) + DualCopyProto (0.05) + DualCopyExotic (0.03) + DualCopyRare (0.015) + etc etc Lastly, they can copy similar league ranking systems as other games where points are gained/deducted for winning/losing. This will inevitably push competitive players to the top. Downside for Plarium is that it will not please whales who enjoy chomping down on little planktons. no, I think XP is actually the first filter, and not part of a weighted formula (at least not initially), b/c I never face low XP high SP players (although I wished I did). I have no secret knowledge or anything, but MM probably looks for players within X difference of your XP to start, and if it can't find anyone within Y seconds, it relaxes that threshold. If we crowdsource data, we could probably get more insight into MM's formula. Last time we did that, Pix came out with leagues which forever killed any consistency. I'd rather leave that bear unpoked. |
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Post by punishingcossack on Nov 1, 2021 3:21:08 GMT -5
no, I think XP is actually the first filter, and not part of a weighted formula (at least not initially), b/c I never face low XP high SP players (although I wished I did). I have no secret knowledge or anything, but MM probably looks for players within X difference of your XP to start, and if it can't find anyone within Y seconds, it relaxes that threshold. If we crowdsource data, we could probably get more insight into MM's formula. Last time we did that, Pix came out with leagues which forever killed any consistency. I'd rather leave that bear unpoked. I wasn't aware of that, when I played my first War Robots game, leagues were already a thing |
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GenValentine
Destrier
Posts: 93
Karma: 50
Pilot name: GenValentine
MA Pilot ID: 14976873
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Post by GenValentine on Nov 1, 2021 4:16:35 GMT -5
Oh Redfiend I just realized I was reading your posts/guides when I was starting.  Really helped a lot!! Did you change your handle?  If you dont mind me asking, why did you leave in the first place? And are you starting fresh with a new account? |
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Post by Redfiend on Nov 1, 2021 7:33:52 GMT -5
Oh Redfiend I just realized I was reading your posts/guides when I was starting. Really helped a lot!! Did you change your handle? If you dont mind me asking, why did you leave in the first place? And are you starting fresh with a new account? My handle never stays the same because I get bored with games like this. Yes, fresh start. I'm a glutton for punishment. Honestly, I just don't have the time anymore. |
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Post by Redfiend on Nov 1, 2021 7:39:24 GMT -5
I wasn't aware of that, when I played my first War Robots game, leagues were already a thing My old handle on this forum was Tintehfiend. Using crowdsourced data, we cracked the original MM back when it was Walking War Robots. When Leagues launched, pix specifically referenced the forum's breakdown of the old MM(and it being busted by US knowing how it works) and said it was as spot on as anyone could get without being someone sitting at a Pixo desk. Also kinda proved Hangar based MM's are easy to exploit. Instead of going for any traditional ranking system, or tweaking the game, Pix made the railroad of pain that is the league system. |
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Post by Munki on Nov 1, 2021 9:07:57 GMT -5
Railroad of Pain. LOL! That could have been a Motley Crue or Metallica album title.
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Post by scape211 on Nov 1, 2021 12:12:48 GMT -5
So from what I understand (and it's admittedly little with regards to MM), the general factors of MM goes (in order):
XP
Win/loss ratio
Win streaks
then a mixture of things like division, SP, inventory, games played, etc.
XP is the main factor as its a win-win for them; people cant game the system with XP and those who spend money to help bypass XP and buy stuff early see value in spending. However, to keep the game 'skill-based'(a phrase they like to use when asked about matchmaking) they factor in wins and losses. That's likely why you have instances where someone of 1500ish power will match up against someone with twice the SP every now and then. Those 2 players will likely be closer in XP (usually like 10k or less from my experience) but the one with twice the power has spent the money.
This again overall isn't bad especially if you match more players together so it's like 2v2 or 3v3 with mixed SPs evenly and the rest of the slots filled in with AI. It just sucks when you are the only 2 players in the match and this will likely give you a loss. Thats where it starts to feel quite unfair. I think they need to add other factors like SP ceilings for match-ups. So if you want to challenge the 1500 SP player, give them someone higher, but not beyond something like 2k or 2200. Anything beyond that becomes next to impossible and you lose the skill based factor imo
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Post by Redfiend on Nov 1, 2021 20:42:20 GMT -5
So from what I understand (and it's admittedly little with regards to MM), the general factors of MM goes (in order): XP Win/loss ratio Win streaks then a mixture of things like division, SP, inventory, games played, etc. XP is the main factor as its a win-win for them; people cant game the system with XP and those who spend money to help bypass XP and buy stuff early see value in spending. However, to keep the game 'skill-based'(a phrase they like to use when asked about matchmaking) they factor in wins and losses. That's likely why you have instances where someone of 1500ish power will match up against someone with twice the SP every now and then. Those 2 players will likely be closer in XP (usually like 10k or less from my experience) but the one with twice the power has spent the money. This again overall isn't bad especially if you match more players together so it's like 2v2 or 3v3 with mixed SPs evenly and the rest of the slots filled in with AI. It just sucks when you are the only 2 players in the match and this will likely give you a loss. Thats where it starts to feel quite unfair. I think they need to add other factors like SP ceilings for match-ups. So if you want to challenge the 1500 SP player, give them someone higher, but not beyond something like 2k or 2200. Anything beyond that becomes next to impossible and you lose the skill based factor imo There's "feeling competetive" and being competetive. Any "game" who's only progression is "leveling", gates by RM or ridiculous RNG timegates is only actually "competetive" at max level. The best thing to say to anyone that plays games like this, is to not take it seriously. The competitive mindset is part of the hooks for generating revenue. |
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Post by scape211 on Nov 4, 2021 10:23:06 GMT -5
So from what I understand (and it's admittedly little with regards to MM), the general factors of MM goes (in order): XP Win/loss ratio Win streaks then a mixture of things like division, SP, inventory, games played, etc. XP is the main factor as its a win-win for them; people cant game the system with XP and those who spend money to help bypass XP and buy stuff early see value in spending. However, to keep the game 'skill-based'(a phrase they like to use when asked about matchmaking) they factor in wins and losses. That's likely why you have instances where someone of 1500ish power will match up against someone with twice the SP every now and then. Those 2 players will likely be closer in XP (usually like 10k or less from my experience) but the one with twice the power has spent the money. This again overall isn't bad especially if you match more players together so it's like 2v2 or 3v3 with mixed SPs evenly and the rest of the slots filled in with AI. It just sucks when you are the only 2 players in the match and this will likely give you a loss. Thats where it starts to feel quite unfair. I think they need to add other factors like SP ceilings for match-ups. So if you want to challenge the 1500 SP player, give them someone higher, but not beyond something like 2k or 2200. Anything beyond that becomes next to impossible and you lose the skill based factor imo There's "feeling competetive" and being competetive. Any "game" who's only progression is "leveling", gates by RM or ridiculous RNG timegates is only actually "competetive" at max level. The best thing to say to anyone that plays games like this, is to not take it seriously. The competitive mindset is part of the hooks for generating revenue. Totally agree. thats why I said they like to use the phrase 'skill-based.' Almost like a buzz word so people get the impression that skill trumps those who spend so its not p2w. But thats somewhat wishful thinking when money is involved and used to scale ahead fast. If end game is the only place or time you can realistically be competitive, then skill only comes into play when youve spent a lot of time, money or a combo of both. |
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Post by Munki on Nov 4, 2021 13:15:19 GMT -5
There's "feeling competetive" and being competetive. Any "game" who's only progression is "leveling", gates by RM or ridiculous RNG timegates is only actually "competetive" at max level. The best thing to say to anyone that plays games like this, is to not take it seriously. The competitive mindset is part of the hooks for generating revenue. Totally agree. thats why I said they like to use the phrase 'skill-based.' Almost like a buzz word so people get the impression that skill trumps those who spend so its not p2w. But thats somewhat wishful thinking when money is involved and used to scale ahead fast. If end game is the only place or time you can realistically be competitive, then skill only comes into play when youve spent a lot of time, money or a combo of both. To be fair, the acquisition of skill often goes hand and hand with time spent with an activity. |
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Post by Redfiend on Nov 4, 2021 21:12:46 GMT -5
scape211 in competetive games, gear is an add on. While good gear gives an advantage, bad gear can still win with game sense, "skill". In games that live in the world of scaled levels being a majority of the "content", there's no amount of game sense that will see a 1☆ hangar beat a 6☆ hangar.
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Post by BigBear on Nov 5, 2021 10:00:27 GMT -5
Unless you are playing a 5v5 or 4v4 skill has little to do with the match outcome in this game,we all know how the game roughly equates to win 5 lose 5 in that order.
I played a few squad games last night and we won them all,as soon as I ran solo enemy A.I went into terminator mode and my AI went into powder puff mode, obviously I had won too many games in a row and now it was my payback,I could read it like a book it was that obvious what was coming.
No amount of skill was winning these games for me,enemy was rolling on beacons in waves and it seemed I was fighting them alone,after a few losses the game settled back into a more normal mode.
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Post by Danny Linguini on Nov 5, 2021 14:38:33 GMT -5
Unless you are playing a 5v5 or 4v4 skill has little to do with the match outcome in this game,we all know how the game roughly equates to win 5 lose 5 in that order. I played a few squad games last night and we won them all,as soon as I ran solo enemy A.I went into terminator mode and my AI went into powder puff mode, obviously I had won too many games in a row and now it was my payback,I could read it like a book it was that obvious what was coming. No amount of skill was winning these games for me,enemy was rolling on beacons in waves and it seemed I was fighting them alone,after a few losses the game settled back into a more normal mode. Just for giggles, try spamming the Attack message on every red you see when you’re running solo. It seems to keep the otherwise brain dead AI mech teammates a little more engaged. Or it could just be my imagination. |
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Post by scape211 on Nov 8, 2021 14:42:10 GMT -5
Unless you are playing a 5v5 or 4v4 skill has little to do with the match outcome in this game,we all know how the game roughly equates to win 5 lose 5 in that order. I played a few squad games last night and we won them all,as soon as I ran solo enemy A.I went into terminator mode and my AI went into powder puff mode, obviously I had won too many games in a row and now it was my payback,I could read it like a book it was that obvious what was coming. No amount of skill was winning these games for me,enemy was rolling on beacons in waves and it seemed I was fighting them alone,after a few losses the game settled back into a more normal mode. Yea once AI gets into the mix its a mess. When you are in a full squad, AI is still technically in terminator mode, but it now has full human targets so you arent the only one anymore. Still doesnt excuse the powder puff AI we get at times though.... |
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Post by frunobulax on Nov 20, 2021 8:18:14 GMT -5
I wasn't aware of that, when I played my first War Robots game, leagues were already a thing My old handle on this forum was Tintehfiend. Using crowdsourced data, we cracked the original MM back when it was Walking War Robots. When Leagues launched, pix specifically referenced the forum's breakdown of the old MM(and it being busted by US knowing how it works) and said it was as spot on as anyone could get without being someone sitting at a Pixo desk. Also kinda proved Hangar based MM's are easy to exploit. Instead of going for any traditional ranking system, or tweaking the game, Pix made the railroad of pain that is the league system. I'll eat my shorts if that was the real reason  Nah, games are decided by player skill in a hangar based matchmaking. No way to purchase power -> no reason for whales to drop a couple of grand every time they load the game. Hangar based matchmaking had to go.
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Post by Redfiend on Nov 20, 2021 8:44:23 GMT -5
My old handle on this forum was Tintehfiend. Using crowdsourced data, we cracked the original MM back when it was Walking War Robots. When Leagues launched, pix specifically referenced the forum's breakdown of the old MM(and it being busted by US knowing how it works) and said it was as spot on as anyone could get without being someone sitting at a Pixo desk. Also kinda proved Hangar based MM's are easy to exploit. Instead of going for any traditional ranking system, or tweaking the game, Pix made the railroad of pain that is the league system. I'll eat my shorts if that was the real reason Nah, games are decided by player skill in a hangar based matchmaking. No way to purchase power -> no reason for whales to drop a couple of grand every time they load the game. Hangar based matchmaking had to go.
Did you already forget the maggep Taranno-Rog days? Us figuring out exactly how far the MM could be pushed is why that plague fully saturated the game. Even if it wasn't the "real" reason, the complaints gave Pixo enough "public interest" ammo to make the change. It's so damn long ago that I can't be bothered to find it, but Pix did an entire official post including our forum and the MM breaking breakdown we fleshed out together. It also killed Pixo's income because obtaining Mags/tarans was fairly easy with OG WS, and obtaining just a single MagGep was enough to shower enough players in Au to cut into Pixo's revenue. Hence the gutting of currencies in the two following years. |
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Post by frunobulax on Nov 26, 2021 5:58:37 GMT -5
I'll eat my shorts if that was the real reason Nah, games are decided by player skill in a hangar based matchmaking. No way to purchase power -> no reason for whales to drop a couple of grand every time they load the game. Hangar based matchmaking had to go.
Did you already forget the maggep Taranno-Rog days? Us figuring out exactly how far the MM could be pushed is why that plague fully saturated the game. Even if it wasn't the "real" reason, the complaints gave Pixo enough "public interest" ammo to make the change. It's so damn long ago that I can't be bothered to find it, but Pix did an entire official post including our forum and the MM breaking breakdown we fleshed out together. It also killed Pixo's income because obtaining Mags/tarans was fairly easy with OG WS, and obtaining just a single MagGep was enough to shower enough players in Au to cut into Pixo's revenue. Hence the gutting of currencies in the two following years. In my memory most clubbers ran MagGeps with low-level Geps and high-level Mags in Bronze. However, even those were rare -- I met one in maybe one out of 10 matches.
Pixo has never, ever given us the truth. Just remember the round table... True spindoctors.
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Post by Redfiend on Nov 26, 2021 13:09:53 GMT -5
Towards the end I ran into at least person with 5x 2/10/10/11 maggeps every match. That was the absolute limit they could be pushed to without breaking into the next MM bracket.
Rogs were even worse at 1/10/9.
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Really helped a lot!! Did you change your handle? 
