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Post by Strayed on Mar 29, 2017 0:53:39 GMT -5
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Post by BLYTHE on Mar 29, 2017 1:01:59 GMT -5
Thinking it doesn't get you banned, does it? Or are the mods omniscient, too?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2017 1:02:09 GMT -5
Awe man... That sucks pretty bad. As if there's not enough already screwed up in this world.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2017 1:30:49 GMT -5
Its all BS, its a smoke screen for an NSA front door survelance program.
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Post by sonofsam on Mar 29, 2017 1:36:50 GMT -5
Men, Google already does it. Don't believe me?
Google idk...."kill roaches" then "kill wasps" then "kill mice" then "kill bedbugs" then watch the banner ads that pop up in forums or when you click a story on Yahoo.
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Post by Strayed on Mar 29, 2017 1:44:01 GMT -5
The problem is, google can't see everything you do, your isp however, can.
This means that they could potentially sell out your password information, social security number, credit card info, etc.
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Post by den1z on Mar 29, 2017 1:47:34 GMT -5
1984
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Post by Paps on Mar 29, 2017 2:07:11 GMT -5
To be fair, though, this has already been happening on a large scale.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2017 7:51:17 GMT -5
Its all BS, its a smoke screen for an NSA front door survelance program. Pretty much....they already do more than anyone would like/care to know of before the preprogrammed "that can't be true" filter in their brain automatically kicks in.
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Post by DirtyLikaRat® on Mar 29, 2017 7:55:09 GMT -5
Eh... Whatever... My credit is awful... My sexual tastes horrifically perverse... And my allegiances to God and Country solid. I think I'm safe.
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Post by hurtbot on Mar 29, 2017 8:08:05 GMT -5
Just another step in our insidious march toward fascism.
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Mar 29, 2017 8:10:58 GMT -5
Its all BS, its a smoke screen for an NSA front door survelance program. Pretty much....they already do more than anyone would like/care to know of before the preprogrammed "that can't be true" filter in their brain automatically kicks in. I guess I will be serious for a moment... That filter has been uninstalled from my poor, organic, operating system. Now, the only filter I have is "is there proof"? And I apply that towards affirmatives and negatives. In other words... "is there proof that they are doing it?" "Is there proof that they are not?" Right now, the scale is HEAVILY weighted on the former question's answer. I am not the most Tin Foil-ed person, but I definitely don't chew my cud as ordered, either. This bill is as bad a sign as any for the future of our liberty... or, what is left of it. Granted, there is still a lot to be thankful for in the US, but the amount of true freedom and basic rights that we used to have, or that are currently threatened, makes it truly evident just how much we've lost, already. And painfully clear what is at stake once looked at with open eyes. Hell, I wish I could point to a Party and blame them, but I can't. Same coin, different picture on each side, maybe, but same coin. Ah well, maybe Pix will fix their stuff so I can have my bread and circus when I want to NOT be as aware. But... prolly not. IMO, YMMV
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Post by nightmarepatrol on Mar 29, 2017 13:36:29 GMT -5
It's all about the money. It has nothing to due with the NSA. They've been watching all along and don't need this piece of legislation to pry. The ISP's have wanted to sell this data for a very long time. It's more along the lines of getting money from market research firms who want to see peoples habits. What most people don't realize it that even with private browser windows, VPN, TOR, etc that about 98 percent of the traffice on the web can be uniquely tracked back to an individual device. Leaving cookies behind makes it easier to relate individual users of a computer to an activity, but nonetheless the where a system goes is already known. The ISP data will allow them a much more geographic granularity. It's not about privacy in the "someone is spying on you sense", but rather the analysis of the data of where you live versus what you do.
What neighborhood do you live in? What's your income? What's your house worth? What is you ethnic background? How much do you make? How many people live there?
There's a lot more that goes along with that and it will get sliced, diced and analyzed to death. They put int into a database and application where people who want to know how many people in zip code 99676 searched for Gain laundry detergent and 30.06 ammo. There's hundreds of other uses for too. There's also ton of conclusions about things that can be drawn when people can get their hands on data. It's highly unlikely much of it will ever see government or law enforcement use. They already have ways of knowing that.
It's going to go along with the story where one house in your neighborhood gets broke into and within a week there's people pounding on your door or calling you wanting to sell you a home security system.
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Post by nightmarepatrol on Mar 29, 2017 14:04:40 GMT -5
Just for clarity on my position. I don't like it. I think it's an invasion or privacy by people that just don't need to know my business. I don't have anything to hide, but does the corporate world *need* to know this online activity?
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Post by blastronaut on Mar 29, 2017 14:08:17 GMT -5
The problem is, google can't see everything you do, your isp however, can. This means that they could potentially sell out your password information, social security number, credit card info, etc. Or blackmail you in exchange for keeping your 「popcorn」 browsing history private.
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Mar 29, 2017 14:08:42 GMT -5
It's all about the money. It has nothing to due with the NSA. They've been watching all along and don't need this piece of legislation to pry. The ISP's have wanted to sell this data for a very long time. It's more along the lines of getting money from market research firms who want to see peoples habits. What most people don't realize it that even with private browser windows, VPN, TOR, etc that about 98 percent of the traffice on the web can be uniquely tracked back to an individual device. Leaving cookies behind makes it easier to relate individual users of a computer to an activity, but nonetheless the where a system goes is already known. The ISP data will allow them a much more geographic granularity. It's not about privacy in the "someone is spying on you sense", but rather the analysis of the data of where you live versus what you do. What neighborhood do you live in? What's your income? What's your house worth? What is you ethnic background? How much do you make? How many people live there? There's a lot more that goes along with that and it will get sliced, diced and analyzed to death. They put int into a database and application where people who want to know how many people in zip code 99676 searched for Gain laundry detergent and 30.06 ammo. There's hundreds of other uses for too. There's also ton of conclusions about things that can be drawn when people can get their hands on data. It's highly unlikely much of it will ever see government or law enforcement use. They already have ways of knowing that. It's going to go along with the story where one house in your neighborhood gets broke into and within a week there's people pounding on your door or calling you wanting to sell you a home security system. Yes. The bill in question is absolutely about this^ I guess my little rant was encompassing the whole kit and caboodle... but still... privacy is threatened on so many fronts, I'd guess so that there can be a precedent set, among other reasons. i.e., a trough (the internet); fence posts (regulations and rules that release and monetize your data/metadata) get put up around the trough, then the wire between the posts is put up, then the gate, then they close the gate. All while you eat from the trough in contentment. *Chewing sounds* - "mmmm mmmm gimme more of that good ole useless content..." "Hey Earl, you hear bout them doods in DeeCee? They wanna give people our data so that they can guess what we want to buy... and stuff..." "Really Joe? Well Hell, that's bout as dumb as... oh look, that Kardashian put out another sex tape..." *clicks download 20 times* Commercial reasons are the worst, and at the same time, the most powerful reasons to do this. I'm sure the snoopiest of the snooping tri-letter agencies that you mentioned already has a whole lot of ways to feed that always hungry data-center out in the desert, but this bill sets a precedent for agencies that aren't technically "behind the curtain" or "in the dark" to gain access to this information in daylight, as well. Precedent is my worst fear for the court decisions in the future, regarding our privacy in any form, not just digitally. Every inch of the privacy rope we let slip from our grasp, always becomes a mile before the grip is tightened again and the take-up of the rope is arrested, because the pull is incessant. Our grip, however, is not. IMO, YMMV *adjusts tin foil hat a little tighter* "I think a little oxygen tried to get through, can't be having that!"
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Post by blastronaut on Mar 29, 2017 14:09:14 GMT -5
Just another step in our insidious march toward fascism. sad but true.
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Post by miatahead on Mar 29, 2017 15:40:49 GMT -5
The problem is, google can't see everything you do, your isp however, can. This means that they could potentially sell out your password information, social security number, credit card info, etc. Not only that, many have few or no choices for ISPs. You have many choices if you don't like Google.
Net neutrality will completely die off with Trump and you really can't turn the clock back on it as your info, once sold, will be out there.
I'm working on how to survive without the internet, period.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2017 4:37:12 GMT -5
It's all about the money. It has nothing to due with the NSA. They've been watching all along and don't need this piece of legislation to pry. The ISP's have wanted to sell this data for a very long time. It's more along the lines of getting money from market research firms who want to see peoples habits. What most people don't realize it that even with private browser windows, VPN, TOR, etc that about 98 percent of the traffice on the web can be uniquely tracked back to an individual device. Leaving cookies behind makes it easier to relate individual users of a computer to an activity, but nonetheless the where a system goes is already known. The ISP data will allow them a much more geographic granularity. It's not about privacy in the "someone is spying on you sense", but rather the analysis of the data of where you live versus what you do. What neighborhood do you live in? What's your income? What's your house worth? What is you ethnic background? How much do you make? How many people live there? There's a lot more that goes along with that and it will get sliced, diced and analyzed to death. They put int into a database and application where people who want to know how many people in zip code 99676 searched for Gain laundry detergent and 30.06 ammo. There's hundreds of other uses for too. There's also ton of conclusions about things that can be drawn when people can get their hands on data. It's highly unlikely much of it will ever see government or law enforcement use. They already have ways of knowing that. It's going to go along with the story where one house in your neighborhood gets broke into and within a week there's people pounding on your door or calling you wanting to sell you a home security system. Um, yup, you/just stay with that train of thought and you will be fine.
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Post by nightmarepatrol on Mar 30, 2017 5:25:38 GMT -5
DethHilt, Big brother uses NarusInsight and probably something even better we aren't told about. They really don't need the ISP data. This is all about more money for the broadband providers and more data to analyze for the companies that do exactly that.
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Post by hurtbot on Mar 30, 2017 8:03:01 GMT -5
The scary part of this to me is that at this point it's no longer a matter of "if," but "when" with this type of legislation. There is so much systemic inertia that the only way it's going to stop is if there's a full scale revolution.
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Post by SlowReflexes on Mar 30, 2017 8:25:35 GMT -5
The problem is, google can't see everything you do, your isp however, can. This means that they could potentially sell out your password information, social security number, credit card info, etc. If your ISP has access to that kind of information, you're doing something terribly wrong and your information is already compromised. The real threat to personal info like that is the people on the far end of the connection that you've been doing business with, who always seem to be suffering breaches, usually through horrific incompetence. God help you if you've ever had a background check, just as an example. This legislation seems more like, 'screw Google, now everybody gets to play the games Google does' which is annoying and petty but not entirely surprising, as in the past few elections Google went seriously all-in to oppose the people who currently run the FCC. Payback is a ?female dog?.
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Post by nightmarepatrol on Mar 30, 2017 9:57:22 GMT -5
Here is a nice, frightening mid-level view of what's going on. This came from the eff.org website.
Five Creepy Things Your ISP Could Do if Congress Repeals the FCC’s Privacy Protections
5. Selling your data to marketers
Which ISPs did it before? We don’t know—but they’re doing it as you read this!
It’s no secret that many ISPs think they’re sitting on a gold mine of user data that they want to sell to marketers. What some people don’t realize is that some are already doing it. (Unfortunately they’re getting away with this for now because the FCC’s rules haven’t gone into effect yet.)
According to Ad Age, SAP sells a service called Consumer Insights 365, which “ingests regularly updated data representing as many as 300 cellphone events per day for each of the 20 million to 25 million mobile subscribers.” What type of data does Consumer Insights 365 “ingest?” Again, according to Ad Age, “The service also combines data from telcos with other information, telling businesses whether shoppers are checking out competitor prices… It can tell them the age ranges and genders of people who visited a store location between 10 a.m. and noon, and link location and demographic data with shoppers' web browsing history.” And who is selling SAP their customers’ data? Ad Age says “SAP won't disclose the carriers providing this data.”
In other words, mobile broadband providers are too afraid to tell you, their customers, that they’re selling data about your location, demographics, and browsing history. Maybe that’s because it’s an incredibly creepy thing to do, and these ISPs don’t want to get caught red-handed.
And speaking of getting caught red-handed, that brings us to…
4. Hijacking your searches
Which ISPs did it before? Charter, Cogent, DirecPC, Frontier, Wide Open West (to name a few)
Back in 2011, several ISPs were caught red-handed working with a company called Paxfire to hijack their customers’ search queries to Bing, Yahoo!, and Google. Here’s how it worked.
When you entered a search term in your browser’s search box or URL bar, your ISP directed that query to Paxfire instead of to an actual search engine. Paxfire then checked what you were searching for to see if it matched a list of companies that had paid them for more traffic. If your query matched one of these brands (e.g. you had typed in “apple”, “dell”, or “wsj”, to name a few) then Paxfire would send you directly to that company’s website instead of sending you to a search engine and showing you all the search results (which is what you’d normally expect). The company would then presumably give Paxfire some money, and Paxfire would presumably give your ISP some money.
In other words, ISPs were hijacking their customers’ search queries and redirecting them to a place customers hadn’t asked for, all while pocketing a little cash on the side. Oh, and the ISPs in question hadn’t bothered to tell their customers they’d be sending their search traffic to a third party that might record some of it.
It’s hard to believe we’re still on the subtle end of the creepy spectrum. But things are about to get a whole lot more in-your-face creepy, with…
3. Snooping through your traffic and inserting ads
Which ISPs did it before? AT&T, Charter, CMA
This is the biggest one people are worried about, and with good reason—ISPs have every incentive to snoop through your traffic, record what you’re browsing, and then inject ads into your traffic based on your browsing history.
Plenty of ISPs have done it before—AT&T did it on some of their paid wifi hotspots; Charter did it with its broadband customers; and a smaller ISP called CMA did the same.
We don’t think this one requires much explaining for folks to understand just how privacy invasive this is. But if you need a reminder, we’re talking about the company that carries all your Internet traffic examining each packet in detail1 to build up a profile on you, which they can then use to inject even more ads into your browsing experience. (Or, even worse—they could hire a third-party company like NebuAd or Phorm to do all this for them.) That’s your ISP straight up spying on you to sell ads—and turning the creepiness factor up to eleven.2 And speaking of spying, we’d be remiss if we didn’t mention…
2. Pre-installing software on your phone and recording every URL you visit
Which ISPs did it before? AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile
When you buy a new Android phone, you probably expect it to come with some bloatware—apps installed by the manufacturer or carrier that you’re never going to use. You don’t expect it to come preinstalled with software that logs which apps you use and what websites you visit and sends data back to your ISP. But that’s exactly what was uncovered when security researcher and EFF client Trevor Eckhart did some digging into Carrier IQ, an application that came preinstalled on phones sold by AT&T, Sprint, and T-Mobile.
This is even creepier than number three on our list (watching your traffic and injecting ads), because at least with number three, your ISP can only see your unencrypted traffic. With Carrier IQ, your ISP could also see what encrypted (HTTPS) URLs you visit and record what apps you use.
Simply put, preinstalled software like Carrier IQ gives your ISP a window into everything you do on your phone. While mobile ISPs may have backed down on using Carrier IQ in the past (and the situation led to a class action lawsuit), you can bet that if the FCC’s privacy rules are rolled back there’ll be ISPs be eager to start something similar.
But none of these creepy practices holds a candle to the ultimate, creepiest thing ISPs want to do with your traffic, which is…
1. Injecting undetectable, undeletable tracking cookies in all of your HTTP traffic
Which ISPs did it before? AT&T, Verizon
The number one creepiest thing on our list of privacy-invasive practices comes courtesy of Verizon (and AT&T, which quickly killed a similar program after Verizon started getting blowback).
Back in 2014 Verizon Wireless decided that it was a good idea to insert supercookies into all of its mobile customers’ traffic. Yes, you read that right—it’s as if some Verizon exec thought “inserting tracking headers into all our customers’ traffic can’t have a down side, can it?” Oh, and, for far too long, they didn’t bother to explicitly tell their customers ahead of time.
But it gets worse. Initially, there was no way for customers to turn this “feature” off. It didn’t matter if you were browsing in Incognito or Private Browsing mode, using a tracker-blocker, or had enabled Do-Not-Track: Verizon ignored all this and inserted a unique identifier into all your unencrypted outbound traffic anyway. According to the FCC, it wasn’t until “two years after Verizon Wireless first began inserting UIDH, that the company updated its privacy policy to disclose its use of UIDH and began to offer consumers the opportunity to opt-out of the insertion of unique identifier headers into their Internet traffic.”
As a result, anyone—not just advertisers—could track you as you browsed the web. Even if you cleared your cookies, advertisers could use Verizon’s tracking header to resurrect them, which led to something called “zombie cookies.” If that doesn’t sound creepy, we don’t know what does.
As you can see, there’s a lot at stake in this fight. The FCC privacy rules congress is trying to kill would limit all of these creepy practices (and even ban some of them outright). So don’t forget to call your senators and representative right now—because if we don’t stop Congress from killing the FCC’s ISP privacy rules now, we may end up with a lot more than five creepy ISP practices in the future.
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Post by Strayed on Mar 30, 2017 16:56:19 GMT -5
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Post by [apotheosis] on Mar 30, 2017 19:55:46 GMT -5
^ Great clip, though he probably shouldnt have picked underwear. He hit the nail on the head However.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 3:26:18 GMT -5
Well, at least FISA will have less to do.
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Post by BLYTHE on Mar 31, 2017 3:30:13 GMT -5
^ Great clip, though he probably shouldnt have picked underwear. He hit the nail on the head However. Exactly. I don't think anyone asked for this. What were they thinking, indeed.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 3:30:28 GMT -5
DethHilt, Big brother uses NarusInsight and probably something even better we aren't told about. They really don't need the ISP data. This is all about more money for the broadband providers and more data to analyze for the companies that do exactly that. I'm not sure if its sad, funny, or pathetic. How can one not see an open door in plain sight.
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Post by hurtbot on Mar 31, 2017 7:12:45 GMT -5
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