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Post by mechtout on Jan 1, 2021 16:43:40 GMT -5
What is the multiplier for the Thermal Lance? Does it double the damage of the primary weapon used? If I am using a Carbine 12 or Stasis Beam 16, would the Thermal Lance 6 be a better option than a level 8 weapon?
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Post by punishingcossack on Jan 2, 2021 3:07:36 GMT -5
What is the multiplier for the Thermal Lance? Does it double the damage of the primary weapon used? If I am using a Carbine 12 or Stasis Beam 16, would the Thermal Lance 6 be a better option than a level 8 weapon? On panther or guardian, I think carbine 12 + stasis 12 is probably better than carbine 12 + thermal 6. On juggy or ares, carb12 + thermal 6 is probably better. IIRC the multipler is 20% but don't quote me on it b/c I only have a 1 star level 1 thermal 2 |
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Post by mechtout on Jan 2, 2021 11:46:10 GMT -5
What is the multiplier for the Thermal Lance? Does it double the damage of the primary weapon used? If I am using a Carbine 12 or Stasis Beam 16, would the Thermal Lance 6 be a better option than a level 8 weapon? On panther or guardian, I think carbine 12 + stasis 12 is probably better than carbine 12 + thermal 6. On juggy or ares, carb12 + thermal 6 is probably better. IIRC the multipler is 20% but don't quote me on it b/c I only have a 1 star level 1 thermal 2 i know the rate percentage to fill up the overheat meter is posted in game, but not the damage multiplier. i'll pay closer attention but it looks like my carb 12 and SB16 are doing around 1.2K damage per shot when overheat is in effect. According to Redfiend's thread his explaination is "It causes the afflicted bot to take 50% more damage from all sources, and multiple bots applying the overheat debuff, stack, so two players causing overheat makes the enemy take a whopping 2x damage." |
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Post by Redfiend on Jan 2, 2021 14:23:34 GMT -5
Damage boost is 50% of the particle damage iirc.
So, a Railgun base would go from 18k to 27k, while a Pulse shot base would go from 220 to 330.
Lance is never as effective as 2x the same weapon, but boosts the usefulness of lopsided combos like Lance4 + Pulse8 on a 12 EN mech.
Can't remember if overheat applies before or after other modifiers like critical and optimal range. Critical and Optimum range aren't multipliers, so much as they're a chance to add the projectile's base damage as additional damage.
Illustrated by Pulse cannons, 210 base, 420 with Optimal OR critical, 630 with optimal AND critical. If they were multiplicative critical and optimal bonus would be 840
Brickhouse's ability and overheat seem to be the only actual multiplicative modifiers in the game. Everything else is additive or scaled.
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Post by mechtout on Jan 2, 2021 19:25:28 GMT -5
Damage boost is 50% of the particle damage iirc. So, a Railgun base would go from 18k to 27k, while a Pulse shot base would go from 220 to 330. Lance is never as effective as 2x the same weapon, but boosts the usefulness of lopsided combos like Lance4 + Pulse8 on a 12 EN mech. Can't remember if overheat applies before or after other modifiers like critical and optimal range. Critical and Optimum range aren't multipliers, so much as they're a chance to add the projectile's base damage as additional damage. Illustrated by Pulse cannons, 210 base, 420 with Optimal OR critical, 630 with optimal AND critical. If they were multiplicative critical and optimal bonus would be 840 Brickhouse's ability and overheat seem to be the only actual multiplicative modifiers in the game. Everything else is additive or scaled. okay so after paying closer attention im also see 50% of the base damage, but also some much higher numbers after critical and optimal SB16 with 462 base hit 693, but also many times hit 1.4K from what i saw, a few times higher than that 2.1K. Carb12 with 2.8K base hit 2.3K to 3.5K per shot, some 5.2K |
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Post by Munki on Jan 4, 2021 11:03:33 GMT -5
Thermal Lance also benefits the overall team's performance and helps to get more assists. Just got to remember to light up all the enemies that you have direct line of sight.
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Post by OU812? on Jan 4, 2021 13:38:15 GMT -5
Damage boost is 50% of the particle damage iirc. So, a Railgun base would go from 18k to 27k, while a Pulse shot base would go from 220 to 330. Lance is never as effective as 2x the same weapon, but boosts the usefulness of lopsided combos like Lance4 + Pulse8 on a 12 EN mech. Can't remember if overheat applies before or after other modifiers like critical and optimal range. Critical and Optimum range aren't multipliers, so much as they're a chance to add the projectile's base damage as additional damage. Illustrated by Pulse cannons, 210 base, 420 with Optimal OR critical, 630 with optimal AND critical. If they were multiplicative critical and optimal bonus would be 840 Brickhouse's ability and overheat seem to be the only actual multiplicative modifiers in the game. Everything else is additive or scaled. okay so after paying closer attention im also see 50% of the base damage, but also some much higher numbers after critical and optimal SB16 with 462 base hit 693, but also many times hit 1.4K from what i saw, a few times higher than that 2.1K. Carb12 with 2.8K base hit 2.3K to 3.5K per shot, some 5.2K You might be seeing damage reflected by where it hits. I may be wrong but I recall that damage is awarded differently whether you hit the front, back or sides. I’ve noticed the effect with my Javs. * Also note that Thermal Lance’s damage boost increases with the amount of players who aim at the same target. I especially look for the flame icon on bots who have multiple thermals pointed at them. Increases my damage to the target. Great for tourney play. |
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Post by mechtout on Jan 4, 2021 14:10:11 GMT -5
okay so after paying closer attention im also see 50% of the base damage, but also some much higher numbers after critical and optimal SB16 with 462 base hit 693, but also many times hit 1.4K from what i saw, a few times higher than that 2.1K. Carb12 with 2.8K base hit 2.3K to 3.5K per shot, some 5.2K You might be seeing damage reflected by where it hits. I may be wrong but I recall that damage is awarded differently whether you hit the front, back or sides. I’ve noticed the effect with my Javs. * Also note that Thermal Lance’s damage boost increases with the amount of players who aim at the same target. I especially look for the flame icon on bots who have multiple thermals pointed at them. Increases my damage to the target. Great for tourney play. good point, imagine a squad on coms with multiple TLs would be wiping off reds one by one |
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Post by mechtout on Jan 5, 2021 10:43:27 GMT -5
So in the case of a 5.1 Stasis Beam 16 you are looking at 13.4K damage increase (not incl bonuses) plus the 7.5K damage the TL6 produces. 21K damage is better or on par with most 5.1 level 8 weapons.
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Jan 5, 2021 15:03:01 GMT -5
So in the case of a 5.1 Stasis Beam 16 you are looking at 13.4K damage increase (not incl bonuses) plus the 7.5K damage the TL6 produces. 21K damage is better or on par with most 5.1 level 8 weapons. My R5 SB16 is pretty damned damaging... so I believe those numbers.
I have ran it with TL and it def improved the experience... noticeably killing folk quicker than the SB by itself.
I still find the PC8 to be a better match for how I use it on the Panther, but there is no doubt that the TL 6 at anything above R4 will make an impact. It's my tied-for-second choice to use with the SB. Carb 8 being the other tie.
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Post by Danny Linguini on Jan 5, 2021 17:11:49 GMT -5
I’m experimenting with a TL4 and SB16 on my Panther (because SB12 is next to worthless). So far it’s not bad; I just have to more carefully watch the stasis timer and not leave myself a sitting duck out in the open, because those things just deal damage much too slowly. It really seems to be more of a support setup than the attacker that Panther is supposed to be, but all my good ‘attacker’ guns are on other mechs. What I probably need is a carb12, but I’m about 7000 a-coins shy of obtaining one right now, on top of whatever I’ll need to get Panther up to R5. Carb8 with SB12 is basically garbage. In fact I’m not too impressed with the carb8’s at all.
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Post by mechtout on Jan 5, 2021 18:13:56 GMT -5
So in the case of a 5.1 Stasis Beam 16 you are looking at 13.4K damage increase (not incl bonuses) plus the 7.5K damage the TL6 produces. 21K damage is better or on par with most 5.1 level 8 weapons. My R5 SB16 is pretty damned damaging... so I believe those numbers.
I have ran it with TL and it def improved the experience... noticeably killing folk quicker than the SB by itself.
I still find the PC8 to be a better match for how I use it on the Panther, but there is no doubt that the TL 6 at anything above R4 will make an impact. It's my tied-for-second choice to use with the SB. Carb 8 being the other tie.
i definitely want to try the PC8 with the SB16 once I finally have a 24 energy bot |
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Post by mechtout on Jan 5, 2021 18:15:05 GMT -5
I’m experimenting with a TL4 and SB16 on my Panther (because SB12 is next to worthless). So far it’s not bad; I just have to more carefully watch the stasis timer and not leave myself a sitting duck out in the open, because those things just deal damage much too slowly. It really seems to be more of a support setup than the attacker that Panther is supposed to be, but all my good ‘attacker’ guns are on other mechs. What I probably need is a carb12, but I’m about 7000 a-coins shy of obtaining one right now, on top of whatever I’ll need to get Panther up to R5. Carb8 with SB12 is basically garbage. In fact I’m not too impressed with the carb8’s at all. nice. im running mine on the Guardian at the moment, its pretty nice with the Guardians nerf ability. You got all kinds of nerf and buffs going on  The SB actually does some good damage from pretty good distance too, so can annoy all those MR8 Juggs by dipping in and out of their sight, make them miss their shots, then step out and roast them some more |
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Jan 6, 2021 9:39:01 GMT -5
I’m experimenting with a TL4 and SB16 on my Panther (because SB12 is next to worthless). So far it’s not bad; I just have to more carefully watch the stasis timer and not leave myself a sitting duck out in the open, because those things just deal damage much too slowly. It really seems to be more of a support setup than the attacker that Panther is supposed to be, but all my good ‘attacker’ guns are on other mechs. What I probably need is a carb12, but I’m about 7000 a-coins shy of obtaining one right now, on top of whatever I’ll need to get Panther up to R5. Carb8 with SB12 is basically garbage. In fact I’m not too impressed with the carb8’s at all. I will say that R5 SB 12 is a different animal than R4 and below. It freezes perfectly and adds good support for a high powered weapon. I use it on the Guardian with the Carb 10 (haven't gotten the 12 yet) and it is killer. I want to R6 the SB 12 and run it in dual configuration and will definitely do so.
But yeah, before R5 (and the resulting freeze rate increase) it was sub-par for my uses.
Carb 8s compare with R5 PC 8s pretty well... but I would say F2P could go without the Carb 8s if they wanted... PC8s do tend to be a tad better, in mine and other's opinions, as far as usefulness, since they have a better optimal range. Not sure what you ran them on, but I found them to work well on tanks or the Guardian (used in an ambush fashion especially for killing Jugs... but you have to try and keep from being flanked since it will take both mags to kill them, usually) when I ran them in duo config. They also work well in singles along with other weapons that would push your EN too high if you used the 10 or 12 versions.... but I can definitely see where they would seem a waste since they don't just kill everything right out of the box unless you are dealing with low SP AI/players. But if you have a Guardian, Jug, or Ares at 16 EN, they worked well for me on those bots and if you haven't tried that yet, I would suggest it as a possible option.
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Post by mechtout on Feb 12, 2021 14:21:07 GMT -5
A very common set up for Energy 18 bots, is to run a Carb 8 and a Carb 10, however, if you look at the numbers of a Carb 12 TL6 setup you'll see that combo actually yields more damage.
So for those on a budget, this would technically be a cheaper and more powerful option to go straight for the Carb 12 and upgrade the TL6.
The damage comparison actually widens at 6.1 since the Carb12 advantage increases, while also giving you a second copy set up.
5.1 Carb 8 19250 damage
5.1 Carb 10 24100 damage
Total Damage 43350
5.1 Carb 12 28900 damage
5.1 TL 6 7500 + 14450 (50% carb12) = 21950 damage
Total Damage 50850
6.1 Carb 8 22350 damage
6.1 Carb 10 27900 damage
Total Damage 50,250
6.1 Carb 12 33550 damage
6.1 TL 6 8700 + 16775 (50% carb12) = 25475 damage
Total Damage 59025
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Post by Munki on Feb 12, 2021 16:18:58 GMT -5
A very common set up for Energy 18 bots, is to run a Carb 8 and a Carb 10, however, if you look at the numbers of a Carb 12 TL6 setup you'll see that combo actually yields more damage. So for those on a budget, this would technically be a cheaper and more powerful option to go straight for the Carb 12 and upgrade the TL6. The damage comparison actually widens at 6.1 since the Carb12 advantage increases, while also giving you a second copy set up. 5.1 Carb 8 19250 damage
5.1 Carb 10 24100 damage
Total Damage 43350
5.1 Carb 12 28900 damage
5.1 TL 6 7500 + 14450 (50% carb12) = 21950 damage
Total Damage 50850 6.1 Carb 8 22350 damage
6.1 Carb 10 27900 damage
Total Damage 50,250
6.1 Carb 12 33550 damage
6.1 TL 6 8700 + 16775 (50% carb12) = 25475 damage
Total Damage 59025
And the TL6 helps the team with damage as well. Teamwork is GOOD!  Tip when using the Thermal Lance; first just use it to get the enemy to overheat, then add the Carb 12's shots for maximum damage. |
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Post by Koalabear on Feb 16, 2021 10:41:51 GMT -5
A very common set up for Energy 18 bots, is to run a Carb 8 and a Carb 10, however, if you look at the numbers of a Carb 12 TL6 setup you'll see that combo actually yields more damage. So for those on a budget, this would technically be a cheaper and more powerful option to go straight for the Carb 12 and upgrade the TL6. The damage comparison actually widens at 6.1 since the Carb12 advantage increases, while also giving you a second copy set up. 5.1 Carb 8 19250 damage
5.1 Carb 10 24100 damage
Total Damage 43350
5.1 Carb 12 28900 damage
5.1 TL 6 7500 + 14450 (50% carb12) = 21950 damage
Total Damage 50850 6.1 Carb 8 22350 damage
6.1 Carb 10 27900 damage
Total Damage 50,250
6.1 Carb 12 33550 damage
6.1 TL 6 8700 + 16775 (50% carb12) = 25475 damage
Total Damage 59025
Wow, did not know that! Thanks for this. This makes my decision on which Carbine to get first a lot easier. I have a decently leveled TL6, so if I ever get the CB12, I'll throw both on the Jugg/Ares for specialization events. |
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Post by scape211 on Feb 18, 2021 15:17:37 GMT -5
A very common set up for Energy 18 bots, is to run a Carb 8 and a Carb 10, however, if you look at the numbers of a Carb 12 TL6 setup you'll see that combo actually yields more damage. So for those on a budget, this would technically be a cheaper and more powerful option to go straight for the Carb 12 and upgrade the TL6. The damage comparison actually widens at 6.1 since the Carb12 advantage increases, while also giving you a second copy set up. 5.1 Carb 8 19250 damage
5.1 Carb 10 24100 damage
Total Damage 43350
5.1 Carb 12 28900 damage
5.1 TL 6 7500 + 14450 (50% carb12) = 21950 damage
Total Damage 50850 6.1 Carb 8 22350 damage
6.1 Carb 10 27900 damage
Total Damage 50,250
6.1 Carb 12 33550 damage
6.1 TL 6 8700 + 16775 (50% carb12) = 25475 damage
Total Damage 59025
Just came across this thread. I have actually been working on a video for the thermal lance and noted this same thing. I have been running carb12/TL6 on a lot of 18 energy mechs and really enjoy it. I sometimes go Carb10/mr8 or carb12/mr6 if i need more burst, but the high damage sustain of Carb12/TL6 is really hard to deny. Another reason why i feel the order of end game weapons is RG or Carb 12 first, the other of the two second, then the remaining carbs. But again, it depends on the person. Side note: I did confirm with someone from Plarium myself before - TLs are 50% damage increase. So you guys are correct. |
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Post by phobos262 on Feb 18, 2021 18:56:39 GMT -5
I usually run carbine 12 and stasis 12 on a guardian, but today I finally tried TL6 with the CB12. Holy 「dookie」, its amazing what that multiplier does. I felt like a lawnmower. Definitely worth dusting off the thermal lance once in a while.
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Whoopecushn
Destrier
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Post by Whoopecushn on Feb 18, 2021 21:49:53 GMT -5
A very common set up for Energy 18 bots, is to run a Carb 8 and a Carb 10, however, if you look at the numbers of a Carb 12 TL6 setup you'll see that combo actually yields more damage. So for those on a budget, this would technically be a cheaper and more powerful option to go straight for the Carb 12 and upgrade the TL6. The damage comparison actually widens at 6.1 since the Carb12 advantage increases, while also giving you a second copy set up. 5.1 Carb 8 19250 damage
5.1 Carb 10 24100 damage
Total Damage 43350
5.1 Carb 12 28900 damage
5.1 TL 6 7500 + 14450 (50% carb12) = 21950 damage
Total Damage 50850 6.1 Carb 8 22350 damage
6.1 Carb 10 27900 damage
Total Damage 50,250
6.1 Carb 12 33550 damage
6.1 TL 6 8700 + 16775 (50% carb12) = 25475 damage
Total Damage 59025
Great info. Just put my TL6 on Panther with Carb 12 and what a difference. Put the second TL6 on Guardian with SB12 and it’s a killer too. |
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Post by scape211 on Feb 19, 2021 13:10:58 GMT -5
The damage comparison actually widens at 6.1 since the Carb12 advantage increases, while also giving you a second copy set up...
mechout, do you mind if I use the damage values you are showing in this thread (not shown in quote to save space) for when I do the video? Useful info I wanted to give you credit for. Im sure most people dont know how effective this really is and I was going to hit on it for sure, but showing the numbers drives it home. I was just going to say your forum name here, but I could credit you with you ign or something else if you want. Either way, let me know. Awesome stuff. |
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Post by mechtout on Feb 19, 2021 16:55:08 GMT -5
The damage comparison actually widens at 6.1 since the Carb12 advantage increases, while also giving you a second copy set up...
mechout, do you mind if I use the damage values you are showing in this thread (not shown in quote to save space) for when I do the video? Useful info I wanted to give you credit for. Im sure most people dont know how effective this really is and I was going to hit on it for sure, but showing the numbers drives it home. I was just going to say your forum name here, but I could credit you with you ign or something else if you want. Either way, let me know. Awesome stuff. Sure thing scape211, i actually got the numbers from your mech arena database, so its all community info to share around 😁 personal credit isnt necessary, but mentioning the forum would be great. Thanks for putting out all the great info btw. |
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Post by Koalabear on Feb 23, 2021 13:39:15 GMT -5
A very common set up for Energy 18 bots, is to run a Carb 8 and a Carb 10, however, if you look at the numbers of a Carb 12 TL6 setup you'll see that combo actually yields more damage. So for those on a budget, this would technically be a cheaper and more powerful option to go straight for the Carb 12 and upgrade the TL6. The damage comparison actually widens at 6.1 since the Carb12 advantage increases, while also giving you a second copy set up. 5.1 Carb 8 19250 damage
5.1 Carb 10 24100 damage
Total Damage 43350
5.1 Carb 12 28900 damage
5.1 TL 6 7500 + 14450 (50% carb12) = 21950 damage
Total Damage 50850 6.1 Carb 8 22350 damage
6.1 Carb 10 27900 damage
Total Damage 50,250
6.1 Carb 12 33550 damage
6.1 TL 6 8700 + 16775 (50% carb12) = 25475 damage
Total Damage 59025
Just came across this thread. I have actually been working on a video for the thermal lance and noted this same thing. I have been running carb12/TL6 on a lot of 18 energy mechs and really enjoy it. I sometimes go Carb10/mr8 or carb12/mr6 if i need more burst, but the high damage sustain of Carb12/TL6 is really hard to deny. Another reason why i feel the order of end game weapons is RG or Carb 12 first, the other of the two second, then the remaining carbs. But again, it depends on the person. Side note: I did confirm with someone from Plarium myself before - TLs are 50% damage increase. So you guys are correct. I want to run the TL6/CB12 build. Before I can start saving up for the CB12, I need to R5 a mech. Of the three below, I'm leaning towards Zephyr because I'm not a fan of tank play. Zephyr Juggernaut Killshot What's your experience/thoughts? |
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Post by Munki on Feb 23, 2021 16:10:04 GMT -5
Just came across this thread. I have actually been working on a video for the thermal lance and noted this same thing. I have been running carb12/TL6 on a lot of 18 energy mechs and really enjoy it. I sometimes go Carb10/mr8 or carb12/mr6 if i need more burst, but the high damage sustain of Carb12/TL6 is really hard to deny. Another reason why i feel the order of end game weapons is RG or Carb 12 first, the other of the two second, then the remaining carbs. But again, it depends on the person. Side note: I did confirm with someone from Plarium myself before - TLs are 50% damage increase. So you guys are correct. I want to run the TL6/CB12 build. Before I can start saving up for the CB12, I need to R5 a mech. Of the three below, I'm leaning towards Zephyr because I'm not a fan of tank play. Zephyr Juggernaut Killshot What's your experience/thoughts? Zep can be a very good choice. The Ai has been running all sorts of weapon loadouts on this chassis lately. I would lean towards the Killshot though as I have found it easier to get the needed blueprints for it to get it to Rank 6. Having two is great; do not need to always be thinking it as a battering ram as it can be just a highly mobile gun battery. The Carb 12, TL6 is good. I know you are not a fan but the Rocket Mortar 12 also works great with TL6 or Jav6. Carb10 with Pulse Cannon 8 work well if you do not have a Carb8. I've even run Longarm 10 with TL6 before. Works on some CPC maps. Anyways, your choice Zep or KS are good. Does the game need ANOTHER Juggy on the battlefield? |
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Post by Danny Linguini on Feb 23, 2021 18:44:57 GMT -5
So once I got Juggy up to R5, I messed around a bit with loadouts. Right now I’m running a TL6 and SB12, and even though the TL is only R3, I’m really liking this combination. If I don’t kill the target myself, I seriously slow it down and soften it up to make it easy pickings for a teammate. If/when I ever get enough a-coins, I may try a carb12 with the TL. Or I might just rank up the stuff I’ve got as far as I can. Don’t know, but the lowly TL is certainly surprising me enough that it’s my new target for the next round of upgrades.
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Post by Old-Cat on Feb 23, 2021 19:37:37 GMT -5
I dont have a TL or SB in my line up. I would love to try them but given the A-coin payout nerf I suspect it will be quite awhile before I get the chance. Blah. I was kinda pumped to try them out.
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Post by Koalabear on Feb 24, 2021 9:20:45 GMT -5
Well...today, with Dev Derby back, I R5'ed my JR6 for my Shadow...but only because I had enough A-coins on hand and I really wanted to see if R5 JR6 makes a difference. For the record, it does. I'm seeing much higher damage scores and the critical hits are more frequent, but in today's TDM with all those Juggs running around, I'm still not getting many kills. I think I'll rock in CPC, but haven't played any today yet.
I'm at 900 A-coins now and just need to get that Basic Set for $15 again when it comes out to rank up my Zep. Once that's done, it's all about saving (buying) A-coins for the CB12. I also have enough blueprints to do my KS too so I'll be doing that eventually anyway. I'll just be doing the Zep first. I've decided NOT to get the Redox, so I'll be keeping my KS, so ranking it up eventually won't hurt.
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Feb 24, 2021 9:33:31 GMT -5
Well...today, with Dev Derby back, I R5'ed my JR6 for my Shadow...but only because I had enough A-coins on hand and I really wanted to see if R5 JR6 makes a difference. For the record, it does. I'm seeing much higher damage scores and the critical hits are more frequent, but in today's TDM with all those Juggs running around, I'm still not getting many kills. I think I'll rock in CPC, but haven't played any today yet. I'm at 900 A-coins now and just need to get that Basic Set for $15 again when it comes out to rank up my Zep. Once that's done, it's all about saving (buying) A-coins for the CB12. I also have enough blueprints to do my KS too so I'll be doing that eventually anyway. I'll just be doing the Zep first. I've decided NOT to get the Redox, so I'll be keeping my KS, so ranking it up eventually won't hurt. I am REALLY enjoying having 2 Killies to be an aggravating 「illegitimate child」 with... even with the dash bug, I love that unicycle from Hell. |
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The SB actually does some good damage from pretty good distance too, so can annoy all those MR8 Juggs by dipping in and out of their sight, make them miss their shots, then step out and roast them some more
