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Post by l》THE MACHINE《l on Nov 19, 2020 9:58:12 GMT -5
So first off, the weapons... I understand them mostly but I don't understand: can you use the tier 1 or 2 weapons even late game? From what I have read it sounds like you need to boot these so you can use the better end game weapons that are tier 4 and 5. I thought originally that you could upgrade the other weapons far enough so that they could be just as good but now I am not so sure. I mainly want to know because so far I like shotguns on my lancer... like hitting people in the back while they have the effect from the lasers (they take extra damage), I hit a juggs like that and my face resembled something like this:  I literally 3 shot it... a juggs... with shotguns... on lancer... So I kinda want to know if I can use them late game. That and, does anyone know what kinda weapon space the lancer has at max? if nothing else I would at least like to plan out what to put on it. I may have more questions later on as I am a little confused by this game in some ways, but that is all for now, thanks in advance! |
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Post by Koalabear on Nov 19, 2020 10:21:37 GMT -5
It depends. Shotguns, and I'm only talking about the SG4 variety here, are super fun to play with and I use them even in Division 1. However, I find their performance to be somewhat inconsistent, even when used at PB range. I would not use them in games where I know there will be lots of human players. Instead, I generally only break them out in the first or second day of Tournament, and only on maps that encourage tight CQC combat. Plus, I run them only on my Shadow, which is one of the few mechs that can get close enough to get full use of this weapon and is fast enough to retreat to safety when a full 7 shot clip doesn't kill my target. Mine are R4 by the way.
Refer to Redfiend's weapon thread for much more information!
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Post by mechtout on Nov 19, 2020 10:27:13 GMT -5
Take a look at the weapons damage chart in the community excel sheet. You'll see the max level damage output and can judge for yourself. What ive noticed is that pulse cannons might be the best energy 6 and 8 weapons to max out and pair with energy 12 and 16 weapons for medium and heavy bots. war-robots-forum.freeforums.net/thread/42812/mech-arena-database-link |
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Post by Danny Linguini on Nov 19, 2020 10:38:56 GMT -5
Most of the 'light-weight' early game weapons are kind of limited. Some of the EN6 weapons will be useful later on in combination with very heavy single weapons, but most of the 2's and 4's probably not. The only EN4 weapon I've leveled up is the Javelin 4, mostly for occasional use on the Lancer, but even those I think are close to outliving their usefulness ... or maybe they just need another rank-up. 
The interesting dynamic in this game is, as you rank up your mechs, their energy levels increase, enabling them to carry heavier and heavier weapons, while the energy levels of weapons stay the same. As you can see from a number of threads here, the combinations are limited only by your imagination (and resources). There are so many ways to mix and match loadouts as your mechs rank up, and you don't have to anchor yourself to one option, unlike that other game. I would say, pick a few options for each mech and don't limit yourself to any one mech/weapon setup. Certain setups work better in TDM vs others that work better in CPC games, and one of the most enjoyable aspects of this game is being able to mix and match until you find combinations that work best for you in the different maps and battle modes.
The only other thing I'd add that's kind of off-topic is, eventually the MM and AI will catch up with you when you start winning too much and too often, and all of a sudden you'll find yourself horribly outmatched and getting hammered. Don't get frustrated; try to learn different tactics that might help you adapt to the stronger enemies, but otherwise just roll with it and let them beat you down. Once you lose a bunch, matchups will even out. When I see teams of reds grossly out-powering my hangar, I make a game of seeing how fast I can mech out. The faster I rack up a few lopsided losses, the sooner the matchups go back to 'normal'.
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Post by reconnecting on Dec 4, 2020 14:27:41 GMT -5
I would say, pick a few options for each mech and don't limit yourself to any one mech/weapon setup. Certain setups work better in TDM vs others that work better in CPC games, and one of the most enjoyable aspects of this game is being able to mix and match until you find combinations that work best for you in the different maps and battle modes.
The only other thing I'd add that's kind of off-topic is, eventually the MM and AI will catch up with you when you start winning too much and too often, and all of a sudden you'll find yourself horribly outmatched and getting hammered. Don't get frustrated; try to learn different tactics that might help you adapt to the stronger enemies, but otherwise just roll with it and let them beat you down. Once you lose a bunch, matchups will even out. When I see teams of reds grossly out-powering my hangar, I make a game of seeing how fast I can mech out. The faster I rack up a few lopsided losses, the sooner the matchups go back to 'normal'.
Would this meching out strategy work during later tournament? My hangar is getting wrecked by some real nasty AI. With the current Friday map I keep my Panther with MR 8s in the spawn point and use the high front barrier as cover. Late in match I go out looking for kills. I bet 3 to 5 kills from the spawn. |
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Post by Koalabear on Dec 4, 2020 14:34:12 GMT -5
I would say, pick a few options for each mech and don't limit yourself to any one mech/weapon setup. Certain setups work better in TDM vs others that work better in CPC games, and one of the most enjoyable aspects of this game is being able to mix and match until you find combinations that work best for you in the different maps and battle modes.
The only other thing I'd add that's kind of off-topic is, eventually the MM and AI will catch up with you when you start winning too much and too often, and all of a sudden you'll find yourself horribly outmatched and getting hammered. Don't get frustrated; try to learn different tactics that might help you adapt to the stronger enemies, but otherwise just roll with it and let them beat you down. Once you lose a bunch, matchups will even out. When I see teams of reds grossly out-powering my hangar, I make a game of seeing how fast I can mech out. The faster I rack up a few lopsided losses, the sooner the matchups go back to 'normal'.
Would this meching out strategy work during later tournament? My hangar is getting wrecked by some real nasty AI. With the current Friday map I keep my Panther MR 8s in the spawn point and use the high front barrier as cover. Late in match I go out looking for kills. I bet 3 to 5 kills from the spawn. Don't mech out in Tournament as that just chews up your tickets. If you're getting hammered, just stop playing Tournament for the day and hope you drop down or at the least stay in you bracket. |
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Post by reconnecting on Dec 4, 2020 14:44:46 GMT -5
Would this meching out strategy work during later tournament? My hangar is getting wrecked by some real nasty AI. With the current Friday map I keep my Panther MR 8s in the spawn point and use the high front barrier as cover. Late in match I go out looking for kills. I bet 3 to 5 kills from the spawn. Don't mech out in Tournament as that just chews up your tickets. If you're getting hammered, just stop playing Tournament for the day and hope you drop down or at the least stay in you bracket. Yeah, while I was sleeping I fell from 7th to 17th spot so I will drop down a difficulty level for Saturday's tournament. Yay. |
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Dec 4, 2020 14:46:56 GMT -5
Don't mech out in Tournament as that just chews up your tickets. If you're getting hammered, just stop playing Tournament for the day and hope you drop down or at the least stay in you bracket. Yeah, while I was sleeping I fell from 7th to 17th spot so I will drop down a difficulty level for Saturday's tournament. Yay. It's for the best... until you have a max hangar, you will run into a wall as far as AI difficulty goes. Dropping out of that bracket and into the previous one is a good way to keep the resources flowing. |
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Post by reconnecting on Dec 4, 2020 14:52:03 GMT -5
Yeah, while I was sleeping I fell from 7th to 17th spot so I will drop down a difficulty level for Saturday's tournament. Yay. It's for the best... until you have a max hangar, you will run into a wall as far as AI difficulty goes. Dropping out of that bracket and into the previous one is a good way to keep the resources flowing. If I mech out in cpc games today, will that give me easier AI in tournament tomorrow? |
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Dec 4, 2020 15:18:57 GMT -5
It's for the best... until you have a max hangar, you will run into a wall as far as AI difficulty goes. Dropping out of that bracket and into the previous one is a good way to keep the resources flowing. If I mech out in cpc games today, will that give me easier AI in tournament tomorrow? That is something I don't know...
I think what he was saying is that when you are in a losing slump against CPC AI that are way stronger than you, losing is the only thing that will change it. Meching out in this way was just going all leeroy jenkins and accepting you are going to loose so just go out guns blazing without a care... which should drop down the AI strength you have to deal with in CPC.
In tourney, my AI seems to mostly be tied to the Heat I am in. The higher the heat, the harder the AI.
But this is just my understanding... I could be wrong! |
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Post by Danny Linguini on Dec 4, 2020 15:27:31 GMT -5
I would say, pick a few options for each mech and don't limit yourself to any one mech/weapon setup. Certain setups work better in TDM vs others that work better in CPC games, and one of the most enjoyable aspects of this game is being able to mix and match until you find combinations that work best for you in the different maps and battle modes.
The only other thing I'd add that's kind of off-topic is, eventually the MM and AI will catch up with you when you start winning too much and too often, and all of a sudden you'll find yourself horribly outmatched and getting hammered. Don't get frustrated; try to learn different tactics that might help you adapt to the stronger enemies, but otherwise just roll with it and let them beat you down. Once you lose a bunch, matchups will even out. When I see teams of reds grossly out-powering my hangar, I make a game of seeing how fast I can mech out. The faster I rack up a few lopsided losses, the sooner the matchups go back to 'normal'.
Would this meching out strategy work during later tournament? My hangar is getting wrecked by some real nasty AI. With the current Friday map I keep my Panther with MR 8s in the spawn point and use the high front barrier as cover. Late in match I go out looking for kills. I bet 3 to 5 kills from the spawn. Yeah, tournament is a slightly different animal on its own schedule - I haven’t quite figured it out yet. But it definitely flips a switch if you’re doing too well, and it makes sure you stop doing too well. Which I can’t stand, because while you’re trying to catch up to, keep up with or stay ahead of other players in your bracket, it’s throwing pianos and anvils at you. In fact I’m having a war with in-game Support about that very thing right now. And I think they’re all Pixonic support rejects, because their response is ‘Please send a video of the problem you are having.’ But anyway ... if you can deal with it and it beats you down long enough, I think the enemies eventually get a little bit less nasty. I just stop dealing with it. It’s not worth the tickets or the aggravation. When it gets to that point, I just leave it where I’m at and take whatever I can get from it. I’m not wracking my brains any more trying to take top spot in every bracket, especially since they nerfed the rewards. |
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Post by Danny Linguini on Dec 4, 2020 15:34:45 GMT -5
If I mech out in cpc games today, will that give me easier AI in tournament tomorrow? That is something I don't know...
I think what he was saying is that when you are in a losing slump against CPC AI that are way stronger than you, losing is the only thing that will change it. Meching out in this way was just going all leeroy jenkins and accepting you are going to loose so just go out guns blazing without a care... which should drop down the AI strength you have to deal with in CPC.
In tourney, my AI seems to mostly be tied to the Heat I am in. The higher the heat, the harder the AI.
But this is just my understanding... I could be wrong! It’s definitely tied to the heat you’re in, but your wins and losses seem to factor in, too. I think. But to answer reconnecting, I have not seen any correlation between what goes on in CPC and tournament. I’ve gone on massive losing streaks in CPC and ended up with stupid easy opponents, and then roll into impossible matchups in tournament. |
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Post by Koalabear on Dec 4, 2020 15:43:43 GMT -5
It's almost impossible to tank in this game. When I lose a couple of games in CPC, I do lose some ranking points, but then I'll inevitably win one and that brings back to the max of 10,999.
Just let yourself drop a bracket and see how it goes tomorrow. Tomorrow, the map is Freight Depot, so it's a brawler's paradise. Make sure to drop the Javs and RMs in favour of CQC weapons. Guardian and Zephyr are brutal on this map if you can get avoid any AI snipers out of the gate and get down to the base level of the map. When the match starts, don't move right away. Let your team mates rush out and soak up any sniper shots. Then, get down off the platform as fast as possible and set yourself up for ambushes. The map on Sunday is ok for Javs, but I wouldn't bother with RMs cause it's Heat 6, so the AI will be tough and the human players will be Try Hards.
I'm usually busy on weekends anyway, so I tend to hardly play much on Heat 5 and will pretty much skip Heat 6.
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Post by Redfiend on Dec 4, 2020 18:58:56 GMT -5
l》THE MACHINE《lAll weapons can go up to rank 6.(6 stars) 2 and 4 EN cost weapons (Ex: Rpg>2<) are only really usable as offset weapons on mid to late rank(star) loadouts. If you're pretty much sticking to symmetry in your loadouts, they have diminishing returns in terms of resources needed to level them up. 6 en cost weapons are primarily the end game setups for light mechs(Max 12 EN capacity) Outside of that, they're only real use is supplementing heavy weapons (10 cost+) on medium class mechs(18 max EN capacity). Examples include: Carbine 12+ Missile Rack/Pulse cannon 6, Stasis beam 12+Pulse cannon/Thermal lance 6. The 2/4/6 variants of weapons can always be relevant, such as Shotgun/RPG2+ Railgun 16 on 5 star+ mediums or Autocannon2/4+ Carbine 10/8 on light mechs, but there is an oppurtunity cost in doing things like that because of the resources required to upgrade two weapons instead of doing an even split with two copies of the same weapon. In short, focus primarily on 8+cost weapons, and Javelin 6, until you have a sturdy hangar loadout.
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Post by Redfiend on Dec 4, 2020 19:03:02 GMT -5
   Would this meching out strategy work during later tournament? My hangar is getting wrecked by some real nasty AI. With the current Friday map I keep my Panther with MR 8s in the spawn point and use the high front barrier as cover. Late in match I go out looking for kills. I bet 3 to 5 kills from the spawn.  Yeah, tournament is a slightly different animal on its own schedule - I havenât quite figured it out yet. But it definitely flips a switch if youâre doing too well, and it makes sure you stop doing too well. Which I canât stand, because while youâre trying to catch up to, keep up with or stay ahead of other players in your bracket, itâs throwing pianos and anvils at you. In fact Iâm having a war with in-game Support about that very thing right now. And I think theyâre all Pixonic support rejects, because their response is âPlease send a video of the problem you are having.â But anyway ... if you can deal with it and it beats you down long enough, I think the enemies eventually get a little bit less nasty. I just stop dealing with it. Itâs not worth the tickets or the aggravation. When it gets to that point, I just leave it where Iâm at and take whatever I can get from it. Iâm not wracking my brains any more trying to take top spot in every bracket, especially since they nerfed the rewards. AI bumps up after 12 matches. Brackets have a variant between 6-800 hangar power dependent on matches played. Like, in novice, if you start by fighting 500 power hangars, the AI will top off around 1200 hangar power after significant grinding. This is why the nerf to professional is 「bum-bum」. Expert starts at a baseline of 12-1400 power for Division 1 players, and caps around 2K(Pulse8 Killshots, MR8 Juggernauts, Carbine Zephyrs) making it a 「female dog」 to grind for extended periods. |
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Post by Redfiend on Dec 4, 2020 19:05:15 GMT -5
reconnecting the only CPC metric that affects tournament AI is the player's hidden MM score. I say hidden because there are metrics beyond division 1. Unless they changed something, lower divisions get lower power ranges on tournament AI.
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Post by Danny Linguini on Dec 5, 2020 9:14:28 GMT -5
Well I have absolutely no idea what’s going on here. The best hangar I can possibly muster right now is a 557 strength. For the past three days, EVERYTHING else on the field is at least 700, usually with one or two more at 800, 900, or even 1200. No matter how badly I lose, even getting pushed back down to div 9, there is nothing else on the field below 700. Though wins/losses remain at about 50%, and how well or poorly I do has zero bearing on those outcomes. And forget about tournament - that’s just a total slaughter-fest today. Everything I thought I knew about this game’s MM is out the window now. I am well and truly baffled.
I can say, however, that my smurfing experiment is likely going to fail. Trying to compete with a minimalist hangar so far is proving to be an exercise in futility. I can come in at the top of my team and lose, or at the bottom and win, or anything in between; my results other than team placement are clearly at the mercy of friendly and enemy AI.
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Post by reconnecting on Dec 5, 2020 12:56:31 GMT -5
I can say, however, that my smurfing experiment is likely going to fail. Trying to compete with a minimalist hangar so far is proving to be an exercise in futility. I can come in at the top of my team and lose, or at the bottom and win, or anything in between; my results other than team placement are clearly at the mercy of friendly and enemy AI. About the friendly AI....I had a match recently where two(!) blue AI were in that snowy map in the covered passage down from spawn. I stopped and watched as they walked in circles not shooting at anything. They both had Rocket Mortars anyway. But blue team lost quickly. It was one of the few matches in which I ever meched out. |
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Post by Danny Linguini on Dec 5, 2020 14:06:18 GMT -5
I can say, however, that my smurfing experiment is likely going to fail. Trying to compete with a minimalist hangar so far is proving to be an exercise in futility. I can come in at the top of my team and lose, or at the bottom and win, or anything in between; my results other than team placement are clearly at the mercy of friendly and enemy AI. About the friendly AI....I had a match recently where two(!) blue AI were in that snowy map in the covered passage down from spawn. I stopped and watched as they walked in circles not shooting at anything. They both had Rocket Mortars anyway. But blue team lost quickly. It was one of the few matches in which I ever meched out. Even when they do shoot, they shoot in random directions, usually hitting absolutely nothing. I’m having games here where I’m running just one Killshot with jav 4’s, get one salvo off before being killed in a matter of seconds, and end up the highest mech on the team. Someone please explain how that is possible with 4 other mechs on the team all with hangar strengths of over 700. I never thought I’d see this, but I’ve now been bounced back down to dev 10 (I obviously ran a single mech for a little too long!), and the matchups are so still absurd that I’m having extreme difficulty digging myself back out. Again, the best team I can assemble with three slots is about 560 strength now, and the power of all the other hangars in the matches have not decreased in the slightest. Somebody tweaked something in the last few days, because it’s been that long since I’ve seen another squad remotely close to mine. |
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Post by Redfiend on Dec 5, 2020 23:35:54 GMT -5
They've made significant changes to the MM with the last in-app update. Dumb AI are gone, and it seems enemy hangar strength is less of an issue, while the AI functionality has been modified. I'm not getting anymore games with power handicaps, but the actual tactics and aggression of the enemy AI seems turned up to 20/10
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Post by hicycles on Dec 6, 2020 0:33:22 GMT -5
I've noticed this, as well. It started about a day or two ago. I am actually winning a lot of matches in cpc, consecutively. In fact, I think I had my first losses today.
What I have noticed, though, is that generally, my wins have been because we've meched out the red team. I'm not sure if you all are having the same experience.
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Post by Redfiend on Dec 6, 2020 2:15:58 GMT -5
I've noticed this, as well. It started about a day or two ago. I am actually winning a lot of matches in cpc, consecutively. In fact, I think I had my first losses today. What I have noticed, though, is that generally, my wins have been because we've meched out the red team. I'm not sure if you all are having the same experience. The major difference between 2k-2.5k AI hangars and 17-1900 AI hangars lies in the latter using only 4 mechs. 2k-2.5k is 5 rank 4 mechs. 2.5k-3K is where the AI hangars are using 5 mechs and at least 1 rank 6 mech(Usually Carbine 8+10 Killshot or a Stasis 12+TL6 Tank). 3k+ is where they're going balls to the wall with full hangars near max level. |
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Post by punishingcossack on Dec 6, 2020 7:59:37 GMT -5
I've noticed this, as well. It started about a day or two ago. I am actually winning a lot of matches in cpc, consecutively. In fact, I think I had my first losses today. What I have noticed, though, is that generally, my wins have been because we've meched out the red team. I'm not sure if you all are having the same experience. yea, the losses are lopsided, in that you amassed the majority of your team's stats, but the friendly AI didn't do 「dookie」. They are quite rare though |
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