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Post by erik1 on Oct 26, 2020 1:08:10 GMT -5
You can stay behind cover when you anticipate a Hawk or an Ao Jun coming. And if you use a Hawk or an Ao Jun, you can strategically use cover (which is not easy to do when you start landing!!!!) to protect your low HP.
But...a...Scorpion...can...attack...you...even...while...you...hide!
If a Scorpion didn't have so many defence points, I wouldn't be bothered by this. But if a Scorpion decides to get your Ao Jun or (especially) Hawk while your ability is on cooldown, you're toast.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 1:20:36 GMT -5
Well yes, that’s why they released it; it’s supposed to be a viable counter to the Hawk. Of course both a skill-less garbage, and I’m really annoyed that I don’t have either!
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Post by ѻﻭɼﻉ on Oct 26, 2020 2:01:45 GMT -5
I know this is pointing out the obvious, and that it is not always possible if multiples are running together, but the primary object of situational awareness for anyone piloting an Ao Jun or Hawk must be noting the locations of Scorpions, and coordinating landings to drop outside their ability range.
I run a Scorpion all the time, so not only am I cognizant that a major tactical flaw is those aerial pilots aren’t paying enough attention to me, but I know from experience the terminal consequences of not paying attention to enemy Scorpions.
It is not always possible to stay beyond their perimeter, but I can tell you for certain that it is definitely possible to significantly reduce the number of times they can target you, by paying closer attention.
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Post by Method Games[YT] on Oct 26, 2020 2:04:16 GMT -5
I had a ball watching the usual YouTuber in his maxed out Hawk vaporizing everything in sight only to be hunted down by a Scorpion which seemed to infuriate him to which he says something like "such a skill less bot the Scorpion is, a 5 year old could pilot one".
He then jumps in his own Scorpion and hunts down the previous Scorpion pilot that killed him earlier, proclaiming "there you go sir, how do you like that"
It was a better love story than the Twilight saga.
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Post by erik1 on Oct 26, 2020 2:29:17 GMT -5
I know this is pointing out the obvious, and that it is not always possible if multiples are running together, but the primary object of situational awareness for anyone piloting an Ao Jun or Hawk must be noting the locations of Scorpions, and coordinating landings to drop outside their ability range. I run a Scorpion all the time, so not only am I cognizant that a major tactical flaw is those aerial pilots aren’t paying enough attention to me, but I know from experience the terminal consequences of not paying attention to enemy Scorpions. It is not always possible to stay beyond their perimeter, but I can tell you for certain that it is definitely possible to significantly reduce the number of times they can target you, by paying closer attention. I can't argue with that   |
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Post by The VVatcher on Oct 26, 2020 2:31:53 GMT -5
Your looking at it through the perspective of a Hawk or Ao Jun or Leech. Robots with near invincibility modes whose weaknesses are their cool down. The kind that the Scorpion were built to kill.
If you look at it through the perspective of Falcon or Fenrir, the Hawk is worse.
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Post by Grrrega on Oct 26, 2020 2:56:53 GMT -5
Exactly. I play a Fenrir. I love Scorpions, they are kinda cute with that teleport in your rear. The Hawks I hate. The Hawk makes Fenrir pointless. If the Hawk is a titan killer its canon shouldn't even do damage to normal bots let alone ignore DR of them.
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Post by Cdr. Crimmins on Oct 26, 2020 7:45:22 GMT -5
I look at it through the lens of a regular old walking bot without super god modes or insane DR.
For my bots Scorpions are essentially a death sentence or an imperative to stay way in the back of the battle.
Yes, I can damage them a bit as they rip into me and the rare one that is pretty un-leveled can be hurt bad.
Yes, I can try to stay with multiple teammates so we can attack the Scorpion when it appears.
Yes, I can put my back to the wall.
They are worse than Ao Jun's and Hawks though, because years ago Trident Furies already taught me how to advance under cover to get things done
and that means nothing when Scorpions are on the field.
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Post by non4me on Oct 26, 2020 8:07:21 GMT -5
You can stay behind cover when you anticipate a Hawk or an Ao Jun coming. And if you use a Hawk or an Ao Jun, you can strategically use cover (which is not easy to do when you start landing!!!!) to protect your low HP. But...a...Scorpion...can...attack...you...even...while...you...hide! If a Scorpion didn't have so many defence points, I wouldn't be bothered by this. But if a Scorpion decides to get your Ao Jun or (especially) Hawk while your ability is on cooldown, you're toast. This is really a captain obvious comment...but at lvl 9, it can die pretty quick and long range maps can be a bit boring if you can't get in range easily. I'll get it levelled eventually but figure I'll hone some survivability tactics. The one thing that is happening is that I'm swapping out to more mid-range. Just broke out my dragoons and another viper to replace the glacier and ember on my Ao Jun and resurrected my bully which is doing surprising well now. |
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Post by frunobulax on Oct 26, 2020 8:50:40 GMT -5
You can stay behind cover when you anticipate a Hawk or an Ao Jun coming. And if you use a Hawk or an Ao Jun, you can strategically use cover (which is not easy to do when you start landing!!!!) to protect your low HP. But...a...Scorpion...can...attack...you...even...while...you...hide! If a Scorpion didn't have so many defence points, I wouldn't be bothered by this. But if a Scorpion decides to get your Ao Jun or (especially) Hawk while your ability is on cooldown, you're toast. Pixo managed way too long to maintain an illusion: That skill matters in this game. It doesn't. Not anymore. Players are trained not to use cover, instead they hit the magic buttons.
Ever since the Orkan nerf in 2017 (when backpedalling no longer allowed to avoid Orkan fire), the game has moved step by step from a skill-based game to a power-based game. And power is sold. Titans were bad already, but at least you had about 3 minutes at the start of the game to do your thing. But the Hawk, combined with nerfs to all the other bots and weapons, raises this to a completely new level. All previous OP bots had some vulnerability, even though there is a clear progression of power and it got harder and harder to counter them:
- The Dash bots could be hit by burst weapons. Also they only had either a fairly weak Ancile or a hard-to-use physical shield.
- The Spectre was always a glass cannon that was vulnerable between abilities.
- The Ares was bad, but it couldn't fly. The firing window was much shorter (walk out of cover, fire, get back to cover all in 8 seconds). The Leech had similar limitations as the Ares. Both robots were excellent to hold a beacon, but had a hard time to push enemy bots off beacons.
- The Jun was bad, but it could always be hit by bots with Quantum Radar. I used to run 2-3 high firepower builds (Griffin/Raven/Ares with Scourges, Tarans etc.) with Quantum Radar and brought down a LOT of AJs this way.
- Ravana was the worst IMO, because it invalidated the beacon game. You simply couldn't take a beacon in BR anymore if there were a few determined Ravana pilots defending it. But at the very least it was vulnerable whenever it was able to deal damage.
But there was no counter to titans as they are too tough to take serious damage from normal bots. And even Hawk pilots will need several passes to kill a decent titan.
Hawk is a new quality. 2 players can dominate a game without any communication. Ares trains came close, but you needed 3 players on voice comms for full efficiency. Hawk is invincible, mobile and has unsurpassed firepower. By design you can't hurt it while in flight, so the only counter is to team up on it on the ground (very hard as it vaporizes anything in the open). The only partial counter is the Scorpion which can be avoided by using Phase Shift, a Cloaking Device and Last Stand. The previous OP bots were either invincible (Ares, Leech) but had limitations in mobility, or they were very mobile (Jun, Ravana, Dashs) but were not invincible.
So, to get to your point: I can handle Scorpions. I run Phase Shift on most of my robots, and I do preserve my special ability whenever I can, especially if I know that a Scorpion is around. Scorpion always has to expose itself when it attacks or defends. I hate Scorpions, because they break the strategic game of beacon/area control. But I can handle them.
But the game I once loved is and was a beacon game, and I can't take beacons if I get vaporized whenever I enter open space that I have to cross to get to a beacon. I can't handle Hawks, and I can't handle maxed titans.
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Post by slugpug on Oct 26, 2020 11:57:16 GMT -5
This is the first full bot that I’ve ever won in an event chest after more than 3 years of playing(never bought tokens). I got it in the first event it was offered in on the 4th pull and managed to get the skin and pilot too. Finally getting the newest bot in its prime, I decided to actually go all balls out and max something expensive for once. At over 240k hp fully maxed(maxed armor expert and booster) this thing can be a real pain. At lower levels once you started taking damage you had to split. Now I can tank it to just about ensure the kill after their last stand triggers even without having to use phase shift. I run mine with AC and two thermal nukes. I can’t tell you how much fun it is to finally get revenge on all those Ares, Juns, Leeches and Hawks. Feels good to be on the giving end for once.  |
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Post by foxypotato on Oct 26, 2020 12:00:15 GMT -5
Run shotguns as a counter. Learn to fight off a Scorpion without the use of your ability. Use your ablity to hunt them down if you have a super abilty. Hitting jump drive and punting them like a football is fun. Make a game out of kicking them into other bots like you're bowling or yelling THIS IS SPARTA as you send them off edge of carrier and castle.
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Post by ѻﻭɼﻉ on Oct 26, 2020 13:50:23 GMT -5
frunobulaxEverything in this game requires some skill to use effectively with combat longevity. Your comment is a common phrase about no skill and power, but even the use of power requires skills. Can you please define for us what you mean by the word skills?
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Post by Garbage game on Oct 26, 2020 14:09:50 GMT -5
Yeah it’s definitely more braindead to use than a Hawk. At least Hawk is somewhat balanced by it’s spaghetti code hitbox that clips onto everything can it’s beam can be blocked by cover.
Scorpion literally doesn’t even peek out of cover on maps like Carrier and Moon. Going there to kill them is a monumental task at times. Why don’t they have an internal cooldown for how soon you can press the button? Or not release a ridiculously OP Pilot in the same vein as Arnav breaking the Ravana?
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Post by no pain 80 on Oct 26, 2020 14:25:01 GMT -5
Hawk is ridiculously OP, surpassing anything and everything that preceded it. It bypasses DR, and you cant shoot back during ability with invulnerability spanning time before take-off and after landing. It melts down my falcon like butter. Even my lvl96 Arthur cant take more than one of them in a single flight, especially after the hull-nerf. Any pilot with half brains know not to land it in the open field, and even if by some bad luck you land it in the middle of reds you have PS, Last Stand and PS again upon which you can linger on before the next ability use. Scorpion even with Ash the Legendary Pilot is easy to shoot at, and with little battlefield awareness, easy to cope with.
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Post by slugpug on Oct 26, 2020 14:42:17 GMT -5
Hawk is ridiculously OP, surpassing anything and everything that preceded it. It bypasses DR, and you cant shoot back during ability with invulnerability spanning time before take-off and after landing. It melts down my falcon like butter. Even my lvl96 Arthur cant take more than one of them in a single flight, especially after the hull-nerf. Any pilot with half brains know not to land it in the open field, and even if by some bad luck you land it in the middle of reds you have PS, Last Stand and PS again upon which you can linger on before the next ability use. Scorpion even with Ash the Legendary Pilot is easy to shoot at, and with little battlefield awareness, easy to cope with. Tell me about it, I’d rather fight off 5 scorpions at once than face just one hawk. Not even a quad wasp build even dents the dang thing while in flight. |
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Post by slugpug on Oct 26, 2020 14:58:13 GMT -5
Yeah it’s definitely more braindead to use than a Hawk. At least Hawk is somewhat balanced by it’s spaghetti code hitbox that clips onto everything can it’s beam can be blocked by cover. Scorpion literally doesn’t even peek out of cover on maps like Carrier and Moon. Going there to kill them is a monumental task at times. Why don’t they have an internal cooldown for how soon you can press the button? Or not release a ridiculously OP Pilot in the same vein as Arnav breaking the Ravana? Play tank bots and you won’t even care about Scorpions. I don’t even bother to turn around most of the time. |
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Post by foxypotato on Oct 26, 2020 15:07:01 GMT -5
You know those usless Thunder/Storm/Gusts that are no good outside of point blank? Scorpions teleport to you at point blank. Just turn around.
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Post by NexusBlade on Oct 26, 2020 17:33:04 GMT -5
Well I read this thread. And then this happened:  Funny how that works. |
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Post by Method Games[YT] on Oct 26, 2020 19:16:27 GMT -5
Well I read this thread. And then this happened: Funny how that works. I'm still seeing multiple wins from players in the banner that appears in the home screen. Everytime I see one I say to myself "where's mine dammit". Now all you need for the ultimate troll bot is to run it with the pilot and a drone that freezes and suppresses at the same time just to make sure opponents have no chance of retaliation. |
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Post by foxypotato on Oct 27, 2020 0:01:55 GMT -5
Well I read this thread. And then this happened: Funny how that works. Nice. Already equipped with the deadly tulu specter build I see. No point in upgrading weapons at this point. Excellent chest roll. Just max out the old school PDB and you are good to go! |
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Post by NexusBlade on Oct 27, 2020 0:04:58 GMT -5
Well I read this thread. And then this happened: Funny how that works. Nice. Already equipped with the deadly tulu specter build I see. No point in upgrading weapons at this point. Excellent chest roll. Just max out the old school PDB and you are good to go! Have some shelved maxed storms, Was thinking maybe I could run those. Depends though, leveling yet another pilot when I am starved of gold is just not happening soon. |
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Post by foxypotato on Oct 27, 2020 0:07:34 GMT -5
Nice. Already equipped with the deadly tulu specter build I see. No point in upgrading weapons at this point. Excellent chest roll. Just max out the old school PDB and you are good to go! Have some shelved maxed storms, Was thinking maybe I could run those. Depends though, leveling yet another pilot when I am starved of gold is just not happening soon. Now I don't know who is 「dookie」 positing who. fml War Robots 2020. Uhhh yes?  |
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Post by alexmcph on Oct 27, 2020 0:15:36 GMT -5
I won a techno scorpion and I scapped that pile of dookie in protest. Ive noticed that these scorpion players are the weakest of all, meaning they are the ones who always quit once you counter them. They cant take the slightest bit of real play. They just want to sit there getting their easy damage and rarely even bother to check their surroundings while on cooldown, how embarrassing for the game in general.
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Post by NexusBlade on Oct 27, 2020 0:17:44 GMT -5
Have some shelved maxed storms, Was thinking maybe I could run those. Depends though, leveling yet another pilot when I am starved of gold is just not happening soon. Now I don't know who is 「dookie」 positing who. fml War Robots 2020. Uhhh yes? I know you were messing around, but the serious point was that it's unlikely to be used... Except of course with lockdown ammo, spydra, and 3 fortifiers for good measure, now that's a spicy build. |
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Post by frunobulax on Oct 27, 2020 2:50:15 GMT -5
frunobulax Everything in this game requires some skill to use effectively with combat longevity. Your comment is a common phrase about no skill and power, but even the use of power requires skills. Can you please define for us what you mean by the word skills? Really? Skill, to me, is the ability to use complex tactics to gain an advantage in the game. In War Robots they come in several different fields, especially beacon control (when and where to attack/defend beacons), the ability to choose the right robot in the right situation and tactical combat, both 1v1, choosing an opponent that gives a favorable matchup (ideally in a rock/paper/scissors setting) and using advantage of numbers.
Or, in other words: If circumstances are equal (think Skirmish), skill level determines your win percentage (win rate is always the bottom line, not statistics like damage).
A "skill" game is a game where individual skills (mostly) determine the outcome of a match. A "money" game is a game where the amount of money invested (mostly) determines the outcome of a match. War Robots was a skill game in 2016, and is a money game today.
Yes, there is always some minor skill involved to play. But in most games nowadays, skill doesn't change the outcome of the game because the outcome depends so much on the equipment used. Many tactical decisions are removed or obvious. Several examples: - Using cover becomes obsolete if you are invincible (long enough to kill an opponent).
- Choosing the right robot for the situation becomes obsolete if one robot (or titan) is so overpowered that the choice is obvious.
- Choosing the right enemy robot to attack becomes obsolete if your robot is so overpowered that it can beat almost all enemy robots.
- Controlling area/beacons is obsolete if you are so strong that you can just kill all enemies.
- Avoiding rockets through movement is obsolete if rocket mechanics are such that it is not possible to avoid then.
War Robots has seen a steady development that allows unskilled players to be successful. In 2016, with hangar based matchmaking, it simply was not possible to be successful by paying money, regardless of the amount. A good player would consistently have a win rate of, say, 60% and a bad player of 40%. Nowadays, even a fairly unskilled player can have a very high win rate if he runs 5 maxed Hawks and a maxed titan. There still are a few games where skill will make the difference between win and loss, but for me, with my league and equipment, the number of these games is so low that it's no longer fun to play.
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Post by RightOn on Oct 27, 2020 7:09:14 GMT -5
1. Hack
2. Sqir-pee-n
3. Ravioli
4. leech
5. phanny
6. blow jun
see if you made the 「dookie」 list! some hangars comprise entirely 「dookie」! ahaha...sorry lol
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Post by erik1 on Nov 4, 2020 8:10:32 GMT -5
So, after playing many, many games against non-whales, along with learning how to handle my Hawk better as well as how to hunt for Scorpions, I have to concede: Scorpions are not worse than Hawks or Ao Juns.
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Post by spectre729 on Nov 4, 2020 8:50:16 GMT -5
i can counter hawks with scorpions.
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Post by teraflx on Nov 4, 2020 11:53:13 GMT -5
I really do not have much of an issue with Scorpions. I can usually take them down easy or at least put a hurt on them, even when piloted with skilled players. Hawk on the other hand is stupid. Melts all of my bots in seconds and if the pilot is good they know to land far enough away where they are tough to get to. I was running my blitz with my ECU on the side which is around 250,000HP with the boosters, modules and stuff and a MK2 Hawk melted that shield and then my Blitz in about 3 seconds.
IMO the Hawk is in the top 5 most OP bots that have been released in this game.
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