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Post by Redfiend on Aug 31, 2020 22:15:19 GMT -5
Danny Linguini They're like pool balls most of the time. If the team gets hit hard at the beginning, they start to scatter everywhere and sometimes spawn bots that don't mesh well with the current situation. Unlike War Robots, and most other arena games, roll out at the beginning needs to be a little different each time. If you're finding yourself in tough situations, try to think about the bots that spawned first and where they all headed. Chances are they'll roll out similar to that every time that map loads up. From there it's just figuring out what you could have done better throughout the match. Gotta have an idea of when/how you have to babysit, and when/how to flank to break up or overwhelm the enemy rollout.
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Post by mechtout on Aug 31, 2020 22:25:12 GMT -5
Danny Linguini They're like pool balls most of the time. If the team gets hit hard at the beginning, they start to scatter everywhere and sometimes spawn bots that don't mesh well with the current situation. Unlike War Robots, and most other arena games, roll out at the beginning needs to be a little different each time. If you're finding yourself in tough situations, try to think about the bots that spawned first and where they all headed. Chances are they'll roll out similar to that every time that map loads up. From there it's just figuring out what you could have done better throughout the match. Gotta have an idea of when/how you have to babysit, and when/how to flank to break up or overwhelm the enemy rollout. yup, guaranteed ai is sending a flanker to take the far home beacon, always keep an eye on it. in fact, just start heading over there, he will be there. and he will be back. if you have long range that can cover two beacons, you are gonna give the reds a hard day.
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Post by frunobulax on Sept 1, 2020 4:12:37 GMT -5
You have good points and I think the best points in your favor have to do with your location (unfortunately). The tournament is the primary way to acquire resources quickly and if you can't participate in the critical final hours, you're going to definately get pushed, unless like S1E1 said, you overload your tourney points early to discourage folks stealing from you late. Agree with your other points. But it's also a more general issue. I am an old fart, I haven't got all day to grind in a game. I play games where I can play a limited amount of time a day, and get some fun and satisfaction in return. Some days it may be only 10 minutes, other days 2 hours. But never all day. Now, War Robots is a game where you have to play a lot. But at least you'll get some returns from your games. In MA, this is not the case. You may play hours and hours and get nothing or very little in return. I truly hate that there are no guaranteed returns in tournament. Game enjoyment is always about returns: You get satisfaction from winning a game, from being the best, or the third best, or whatever. You get satisfaction from making your hangar better. The satisfaction must outweigh the frustration. But I get little satisfaction and lots of frustration from the tournament. I can play for 2 hours and still end up at #7, getting breadcrumbs. I realized long ago that there will always be some kids that play more than I do, and are probably better players, and have a much better hangar. Now, I get some rewards for the first few games, if I complete my dailies and collect my victory tokens. Takes maybe 20 minutes. After that, nothing is guaranteed. Take master: Ranking #7 will get me 3 keys, 7k credits, no A-coins and a Gold chest. I may play 4 hours and there might be 6 players better than me, so these are my rewards. I will be the weakest player in most of these games, and my gameplay will have little effect on winning or losing. So even if I win, I won't get satisfaction from contributing to the win. Are you ?fluffernutter?ing kidding me?
And don't forget that those other kids may need to play less than half the time because their hangar is a lot better. I can scrape 100 points a battle, they can get 250. I don't like these odds. If these tournament mechanics are the result of conscious planning on behalf of the game devs, this is just another p2w game that frustrates player into spending big bucks. (Just as War Robots embracing tankers, cleaning house with maxed hangars in gold league.) If it isn't, they'd better start changing the tournament mechanics, fast.
IMO there would be 3 ways to make the tournament better: - If there were guaranteed returns, like you automatically get stuff depending on the points you make, that would be an incentive to play. If I play hours and get nothing, all I earn is frustration.
- If the prizes were less lopsided, if there were better prizes for ranks #4-#6 and past #7, I might play more. I could get something valuable with limited playing time.
- A crucial point is fair matchmaking, equal opponents. What frustrates me the most is that the rich get richer, players with good hangars get the first spots easily. And there goes the argument "be online in the last hours": There will be always several players in my group who can score points much faster than I can. No point in staying up late, or getting up early.
Some people might enjoy playing chess without a queen, and get satisfaction if they beat their opponent, one time out of 100. I'm not that kind of guy. I think I will be frustrated 99 times and satisified 1 time, so I won't play the game. I spent hours and hours in the tournament last week, and my rewards were miserable. I got the message. Fool me once...
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Post by frunobulax on Sept 1, 2020 4:29:00 GMT -5
16 GAMES to get THREE wins. Pretty f’n pathetic. The matchmaking is beyond ridiculous. I did an edit in my original post, because this was something I left out when writing my initial post but it seems pretty relevant now.
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Post by frunobulax on Sept 3, 2020 1:37:25 GMT -5
Thought I'd give the game another chance. Wow, what an experience. Matchmaking is even worse than War Robots. I didn't screenshot, unfortunately, because this is such a travesty. For some reason, it seems that the game doesn't feel the need to balance anything. I am 900ish now, and almost all games I was the strongest on my team while all bots on the other side were stronger than me, or the other way around.
Then I played a game with my daughter. She's roughly 400, and we were thrown into matches where everybody else was over 2200. Yeah, that were fun games.
Finally, I had tourney games where I literally was the only player killing something. I ended up with 6 kills from 2 battles, my 4 teammates got 2 between them. Then the next game I'm suddenly up against players all 400ish where I get 15 kills.
And people really want to convince me that THIS is better than War Robots?
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Post by Redfiend on Sept 3, 2020 3:18:04 GMT -5
So quit and move on. If you spent the same kind of time improving your gameplay that you spend complaining how unfair the game is, you might have had less to complain about ??
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Post by runamok on Sept 3, 2020 4:36:28 GMT -5
Thought I'd give the game another chance. Wow, what an experience. Matchmaking is even worse than War Robots. I didn't screenshot, unfortunately, because this is such a travesty. For some reason, it seems that the game doesn't feel the need to balance anything. I am 900ish now, and almost all games I was the strongest on my team while all bots on the other side were stronger than me, or the other way around.
Then I played a game with my daughter. She's roughly 400, and we were thrown into matches where everybody else was over 2200. Yeah, that were fun games.
Finally, I had tourney games where I literally was the only player killing something. I ended up with 6 kills from 2 battles, my 4 teammates got 2 between them. Then the next game I'm suddenly up against players all 400ish where I get 15 kills.
And people really want to convince me that THIS is better than War Robots?
Tournaments start out easy but get progressively harder. Once you hit 2000 or so points they start to become tough. The regular league is pretty hit and miss. While the matchmaking is iffy, I still find it far more entertaining than War Robots has become, no god bots, no meta as such, wider variety of maps, and little to no lag. to each their own, but I do find it to be better. With a larger player pool it might be improved.
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Post by [CK]erazor on Sept 3, 2020 5:35:14 GMT -5
So quit and move on. If you spent the same kind of time improving your gameplay that you spend complaining how unfair the game is, you might have had less to complain about ?? Ah, so you're the big brother who tells people what they should or should not do? I don't think so.
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Post by kdsteph3530 on Sept 3, 2020 7:06:39 GMT -5
I stopped playing Mech Arena too, except to log in and collect free resources. I also find the gameplay one-dimensional compared to War Robots, despite all it's complexities which I do understand quite well. The novelty of having a game w/ less complexity kinda wore out over time.
Also, I find some of the daily tasks to be laborious to finish and require mindless amounts of grinding, and when the MM rears its ugly head, I just lost my appetite for it. I can stay on top of daily and clan tasks and event tokens in War Robots w/ ~1h of daily gameplay, and if you don't like tasks, you can use ads to speed them up or use replacement points. Whereas I found myself grinding for more than 1.5h on some days in Mech Arena.
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Post by Redfiend on Sept 3, 2020 7:24:49 GMT -5
So quit and move on. If you spent the same kind of time improving your gameplay that you spend complaining how unfair the game is, you might have had less to complain about ?? Ah, so you're the big brother who tells people what they should or should not do? I don't think so. Everyone is free to do as they please. Everyone says they're going to quit something a million times, yet rarely does it actually happen until they shut their yap and just do, or not do, the thing. Most times it's an attention thing. I've been there too. Take it however you want. No one's forcing you to listen to me, or even read what I have to say. ??
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Post by mechtout on Sept 3, 2020 8:19:16 GMT -5
I found this video pretty helpful from scape about unlocking items and how it effects mm. I actually followed a narrow path to save resources and seem to only face 1200 to 1800 players, which is totally manageable.
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Post by [CK]erazor on Sept 3, 2020 8:40:18 GMT -5
Ah, so you're the big brother who tells people what they should or should not do? I don't think so. Everyone is free to do as they please. Everyone says they're going to quit something a million times, yet rarely does it actually happen until they shut their yap and just do, or not do, the thing. Most times it's an attention thing. I've been there too. Take it however you want. No one's forcing you to listen to me, or even read what I have to say. ?? I always do listen. But I make my own decisions. War Robots and MA are both uninstalled. The only mecha shooter on my phone is BOT and I guess I'm pretty much done with mobile gaming. All those game work the very same way. Pay for items. Pay for upgrades. Pay for making upgrades faster. Pay for some made up in game currency to use abilities. It's just so 「fluffernutter」ing boring. They're basically slot machines with some game around it. Once you see it, you can't unsee it ever again.
And it's a bit sad, that we don't make use of the power of mobile devices. While we now have mobile cpus and gpus combined into a system on a chip, which is somewhere in between Playstation 3 and 4 performance-wise, most games are a cash grab. Zero creativity. Nothing. But those games are easily available as pretty much everyone has a smartphone now and that is reason mobile does about 70 to 80 billion every year, while consoles only are in the 40 to 50 billion range and PC games even only create about 30 billion revenue world wide, less than half of what mobile gaming does. 70 to 80 billion per year, with all those "tiny" "microtransactions". Sometimes, I do some microtransactions, too. On Steam, GOG, Epic Store or elsewhere, I grab some 5 to 10 games which cost 60 bucks each just a few years ago. I then pay maybe 25 to 50 bucks for those 10 brilliant games which entertain me for some hundred hours without any pay to win content. Isn't that fantastic?
In other words: Mobile gaming sucks. The 70 to 80 billion dont come from nowhere. They come out of the pockets of million people who may even believe, that they're playing a free to play game, get then hooked on a game via some psycho tricks and then start to empty their pockets. Mobile games are toxic. They're cancer. Disgusting.
Geforce 3080/3090 arriving soon. AMD 6700 XT arriving a bit later but soon enough. Cyberpunk 2077 arriving, can't wait to play it. New AMD Zen 3 cpus. Playstation 5. So yeah, I guess I'll play some "real" games on console and PC again, as there's still no pay to win epidemic.
「fluffernutter」 mobile games.
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Post by mechtout on Sept 3, 2020 8:51:08 GMT -5
Everyone is free to do as they please. Everyone says they're going to quit something a million times, yet rarely does it actually happen until they shut their yap and just do, or not do, the thing. Most times it's an attention thing. I've been there too. Take it however you want. No one's forcing you to listen to me, or even read what I have to say. ðÂ?¤·ðÂ?½âÂ?ÂâÂ?Â?︠I always do listen. But I make my own decisions. War Robots and MA are both uninstalled. The only mecha shooter on my phone is BOT and I guess I'm pretty much done with mobile gaming. All those game work the very same way. Pay for items. Pay for upgrades. Pay for making upgrades faster. Pay for some made up in game currency to use abilities. It's just so ã??fluffernutterã?ing boring. They're basically slot machines with some game around it. Once you see it, you can't unsee it ever again.
And it's a bit sad, that we don't make use of the power of mobile devices. While we now have mobile cpus and gpus combined into a system on a chip, which is somewhere in between Playstation 3 and 4 performance-wise, most games are a cash grab. Zero creativity. Nothing. But those games are easily available as pretty much everyone has a smartphone now and that is reason mobile does about 70 to 80 billion every year, while consoles only are in the 40 to 50 billion range and PC games even only create about 30 billion revenue world wide, less than half of what mobile gaming does. 70 to 80 billion per year, with all those "tiny" "microtransactions". Sometimes, I do some microtransactions, too. On Steam, GOG, Epic Store or elsewhere, I grab some 5 to 10 games which cost 60 bucks each just a few years ago. I then pay maybe 25 to 50 bucks for those 10 brilliant games which entertain me for some hundred hours without any pay to win content. Isn't that fantastic?
In other words: Mobile gaming sucks. The 70 to 80 billion dont come from nowhere. They come out of the pockets of million people who may even believe, that they're playing a free to play game, get then hooked on a game via some psycho tricks and then start to empty their pockets. Mobile games are toxic. They're cancer. Disgusting.
Geforce 3080/3090 arriving soon. AMD 6700 XT arriving a bit later but soon enough. Cyberpunk 2077 arriving, can't wait to play it. New AMD Zen 3 cpus. Playstation 5. So yeah, I guess I'll play some "real" games on console and PC again, as there's still no pay to win epidemic.
ã??fluffernutterã? mobile games.
i think mobile gaming is successful because it can reach way more players than any console or PC can. There are a ?dookie? ton of players in other countries where a smart phone is their only device, they don't have a PC or a console, but everyone will have a smart phone.
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Post by Redfiend on Sept 3, 2020 8:53:40 GMT -5
[CK]erazor, that's just capitalism friend. Everything is money. Mobile market started a racket that is bleeding into pretty much every gaming sector, much as money making practices blight most of, if not everything else in this life. Good will and artistic talent don't keep the lights, or servers on.
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Post by Redfiend on Sept 3, 2020 9:16:46 GMT -5
mechtout I own everything available to me atm except Shadow, Mortar 10/12, Missile racks and Carbines. The highest active loadout I can strap up doesn't break 1400, yet most of my opponents are still 1800-2300 outside of Tournament. That being said, outside of the daily challenges, not sure if acquiring items affects MM.
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Post by mechtout on Sept 3, 2020 9:31:02 GMT -5
mechtout I own everything available to me atm except Shadow, Mortar 10/12, Missile racks and Carbines. The highest active loadout I can strap up doesn't break 1400, yet most of my opponents are still 1800-2300 outside of Tournament. That being said, outside of the daily challenges, not sure if acquiring items affects MM. hmm, definitely feels like there is a pattern to what you have in your hangar, such as when i ran a two bot hangar it seemed like all the ai guardians were running long arms instead of rocket mortars. trying to figure it out, but i'm not having as bad a time as others seem to be having.
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Post by frunobulax on Sept 3, 2020 10:08:09 GMT -5
All those game work the very same way. Pay for items. Pay for upgrades. Pay for making upgrades faster. Pay for some made up in game currency to use abilities. It's just so ?fluffernutter?ing boring. They're basically slot machines with some game around it. Once you see it, you can't unsee it ever again. There are exceptions. I'm not into FPS type games (for some reason I can happily kill robots forever, but I don't take any enjoyment from games where I have to kill people, comic-y or not), but Auto Chess is f2p and quite good. I also have played Bloons TD6 quite extensively (costs $5 or something once, and is by far the best tower defense game I know, even though it's not multiplayer). But yes, I've seen a lot of potentially great games fail because the companies got too greedy. And getting greedy always implies selling power. You can't coerce players to spend thousands just for skins, or minor advantages. And obviously competetive multiplayer games are the primary target of these exploitative methods. I think MA could be quite good, if there were enough human players and a decent matchmaking to ensure balanced games. But, alas, we seem to be far away from either. [CK]erazor , that's just capitalism friend. Everything is money. Mobile market started a racket that is bleeding into pretty much every gaming sector, much as money making practices blight most of, if not everything else in this life. Good will and artistic talent don't keep the lights, or servers on. And yet, for some weird reason gaming companies were very profitable for decades, before the f2p model got engraved into our common consciousness so that people like you don't even realize that they're talking bull「dookie」. You can pay your devs and keep your server on if you sell cosmetics, or simply a game model that requires a game pass of some kind (moderate monthly fee). But this way you won't be able to make billions of profit by exploiting kids with impulse control issues.
Everyone is free to do as they please. Everyone says they're going to quit something a million times, yet rarely does it actually happen until they shut their yap and just do, or not do, the thing. Most times it's an attention thing. Surprisingly, you'll find that people treat you with respect if you are respectful in your posts. So, respectfully, I'll post here as long as I feel that I have something to contribute.
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Post by Redfiend on Sept 3, 2020 10:33:48 GMT -5
frunobulax I specifically stated that the mobile industry opened a racket that the rest of the market is steadily following. Much like movies, development costs skyrocket as companies increase profit margins for their owners while providing minimal changes to product, just enough to call it different. I'm not defending it. However, unless you're going to go full anti-capitalist, or are going to use your life's resources to create or commission your idea of a perfect game, you're going to have to deal with it, like the rest of us. Part of that is acknowledging it exists, and that it will only get worse as the cash grab studios throw up new projects to cash grab, while major studios wring their hands and try to monetize each and every speck of content they can. It's not about production/operation costs: output. It's about PROFIT for whoever is at the top. Be that a AAA studio CEO, a ten man indie studio, or a single dude that spent his life's savings developing and publishing his passion project. Capitalism, it's not about maintenence, it's about making more money every year until the golden egg laying goose is dead, and the owners retire or breed a new bird. The world isn't kind or fair. You can get salty about it, or change what you can and hold on to whatever enjoyment you find where you find it. Being salty doesn't help anything if you're just going to let your feelings toward any one thing revolve solely around the salt, and/or rose tinted glasses of the past.
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Post by frunobulax on Sept 3, 2020 11:40:39 GMT -5
frunobulax I specifically stated that the mobile industry opened a racket that the rest of the market is steadily following. Much like movies, development costs skyrocket as companies increase profit margins for their owners while providing minimal changes to product, just enough to call it different. I'm not defending it. However, unless you're going to go full anti-capitalist, or are going to use your life's resources to create or commission your idea of a perfect game, you're going to have to deal with it, like the rest of us. There are always options. F2P is not the only model that is financially successful. In fact, many f2p games never got off the ground, only very few made big money.
Some f2p cash grabs were successful in the last years because they were new. Customers adapt. Apart from the regulation that will surely come, there is a customer base that is specifically looking for games that are not p2w. And companies targeting these customers may be more profitable in the long run, because other games flame out at some point. (Which is precisely what we're seeing in War Robots today.)
Case in point: I checked out Robot Warfare, and quit because it has the same model as War Robots and therefore the same drawbacks. In many gameplay aspects it was the better game, at one point. Maybe still is, haven't played it for a very long time. But it completely stopped being a skill game and became an ante game at some point, worse than War Robots ever was. To this day it doesn't seem to attract large player numbers.
My crystal ball says that there is significant demand for a mech game that doesn't sell power, yet is easier to understand than Battle of Titans. Mech Arena must decide what they want to do. They can sell power, but the key will be (IMHO) that games must be balanced even for freemium players and small fish. Because balanced games is the only thing that will make players stick with the game.
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Post by Redfiend on Sept 3, 2020 12:00:38 GMT -5
frunobulax I specifically stated that the mobile industry opened a racket that the rest of the market is steadily following. Much like movies, development costs skyrocket as companies increase profit margins for their owners while providing minimal changes to product, just enough to call it different. I'm not defending it. However, unless you're going to go full anti-capitalist, or are going to use your life's resources to create or commission your idea of a perfect game, you're going to have to deal with it, like the rest of us. There are always options. F2P is not the only model that is financially successful. In fact, many f2p games never got off the ground, only very few made big money.
Some f2p cash grabs were successful in the last years because they were new. Customers adapt. Apart from the regulation that will surely come, there is a customer base that is specifically looking for games that are not p2w. And companies targeting these customers may be more profitable in the long run, because other games flame out at some point. (Which is precisely what we're seeing in War Robots today.)
Case in point: I checked out Robot Warfare, and quit because it has the same model as War Robots and therefore the same drawbacks. In many gameplay aspects it was the better game, at one point. Maybe still is, haven't played it for a very long time. But it completely stopped being a skill game and became an ante game at some point, worse than War Robots ever was. To this day it doesn't seem to attract large player numbers.
My crystal ball says that there is significant demand for a mech game that doesn't sell power, yet is easier to understand than Battle of Titans. Mech Arena must decide what they want to do. They can sell power, but the key will be (IMHO) that games must be balanced even for freemium players and small fish. Because balanced games is the only thing that will make players stick with the game.
Theres a coming balance patch mentioned by the modmins on discord. Nothing is truly overpowered in this game, the only thing that can make it seem that way is the level gap at times. The devs are constantly tweaking the AI. As I've said quite a few times before, the rank 3 threshold is where it becomes less about upgrades and more about playing well. I'm playing at a SEVERE handicap where I stand, and there's only a game or two that gives me feels bad moments, usually because the AI feels the need to throw a Maxed set in with the OTHER PLAYER to protect them from ME. I'm just an average dude, if I can hang with that much of a handicap, it's not the game that's unbalanced. Upgrades are going to be a thing in any mech game that doesn't have hundreds of bot/weapon configurations and setups. That's just how it's going to be. Pick up any of the old Armored Core games to see what a "no upgrade" mech game has to be in order to avoid being stale. That series of games is extremely unforgiving. With regular shooters, everyone is human-ish and moves by the same rules. Only weapons matter, and that's why regular shooters are installations of series. Unless the alternative,a game with a bot for every possible configuration of speed/health/firepower, perfectly balanced, from the mundane to the extreme, there's not going to be anything but a Meta that never changes. Read: Geps and Rogs in old War Robots, where there was no point to move up. The roles and loadouts of how the bots work in this game, picking matchups, and knowing where to be, and when, become the object of the game after hitting R3. Even with something like Mortars, unless you, personally, actually pick them up and try to hit something with them, you're going to think they're strong. They're bad, they just get introduced in a crappy way.
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Post by Redfiend on Sept 3, 2020 12:30:56 GMT -5
mechtout I own everything available to me atm except Shadow, Mortar 10/12, Missile racks and Carbines. The highest active loadout I can strap up doesn't break 1400, yet most of my opponents are still 1800-2300 outside of Tournament. That being said, outside of the daily challenges, not sure if acquiring items affects MM. hmm, definitely feels like there is a pattern to what you have in your hangar, such as when i ran a two bot hangar it seemed like all the ai guardians were running long arms instead of rocket mortars. trying to figure it out, but i'm not having as bad a time as others seem to be having. Confirmation bias. I have several hangar setups that I cycle through on the day to day, and play tournament on a kit specifically for the Map. There's no real difference. The AI hangars are already generated at match start. Sometimes they'll switch up their deployment rotation, which is what makes that psuedo "coordinated squad play" feeling play out in different ways from match to match. Sometimes 2 jugs and a Killshot will barrel down center, while shadows are flanking. Sometimes it's three killshots backed up by a sniping panther+paragon pushing to steamroll one side of the map. Sometimes it's something in between, where you wonder why you can only see one bot on the minimap and they ping up everywhere simultaneously. Depends on the map, the hangar mix the randomizer gives the AI, and which bots they spawn first.
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