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Post by Redfiend on Aug 29, 2020 13:33:08 GMT -5
They really don't unless you're still on bots that aren't rank 3+, Mortars become available very early in the game. None of my bots is 3*. I get killed left and right by the ?fluffernutter?ing things, while walking towards the shooter.
I don't give a ?dookie? if this gets better as I hit 3* bots, I won't be around this long most likely. As a game designer, one should make sure that players get hooked and continue to play past the first 1-2 weeks. At least for me, RM deaths frustrate me enough to shut down the game for the day, and very soon perhaps permanently. Guess I'll give BoT another shot.
The "bam, you're dead" logic is not what I'm looking for. Old War Robots games were epic, back and forth for 10 minutes and usually nailbiters. You saw enemies coming, and could employ cover to improve your survival chances. If you didn't see an enemy, the damage it could do was very limited. Don't see those epic battles this in Mech Arena. All I see is that I'm full health, and then I'm suddenly dead, hit from RMs or dual Longarms from bots that I never saw.
If those are AIs, then they're doing something seriously wrong. Give AIs stronger bots, more HP, but don't allow them to 1-shot human players with perfect targeting.
And I do see Shadows already. They're annoying, but nowhere near as frustrating as RMs.
Everything in this game is movement and planning. Straight lines and standing around exposed is just as much an invitation to death in this game as in any other competent shooter. Rocket Mortars aren't as common as you make them out to be, it only feels that way because it feels bad and you're focusing on it. It's no different than losing a bot to a sniper you didn't see, knowing it's out there is the key to avoiding it. As a Player, I'm starting to hit the same shots, on the same angles, from the same distances as the AI, because I know those angles exist and are effective. There's no aiming mortars unless you're exposed, and their actual impact radius isn't as large as you'd think. They also have the longest reload in the game. It's the camping weapon to kill slow enemies and campers. The only real change I'd make to them is to make their presence more announced, and/or lower their projectile speed so that there's time for bots 5mph or faster can avoid being one-shot. |
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Post by Danny Linguini on Aug 29, 2020 13:39:31 GMT -5
I really don't have the same issues with Mortars that you guys have. It can be agitating, but there are ways to play around them. It's no different than avoiding snipers really. There's a lot of counter play in this game. Can't adress every problem with a hammer, as every situation isn't a nail. Also, weapon damage doesn't grow as fast as bot health. For example RPG6 and Plasma cannon6 at rank 3 only deals about 2.5k damage per cycle than their base health version, while bots gain an average of 10k health for the same level discrepancy, with bots like Juggernaut going up almost 20k. The gap between weapon damage and bot damage widens in favor of bot health, where in other games it's in favor of the weapons. My biggest problem with them, and I’ll even allow for the possibility that it’s just be because I’m still fairly new to the game, is simply not knowing the mortars are even out there or who’s shooting them until they’ve fallen on my head and obliterated me, basically without warning. Depending on which bot gets taken out, it could ruin the whole rest of my game. Doesn’t matter, though — as has been said numerous times, nothing with that kind of range should be that lethal from the safety of the other side of the map. Its optimum range is it’s maximum range, which is just crazy when you think about it, especially compared to so many other direct fire weapons with much shorter ranges. Look at the optimum ranges of other weapons — it only makes sense that the same principle be applied to the longest-ranged weapon in the game, and I just cannot grasp why that isn’t the case. An optimum range of up to 100m (so it still has an advantage over Javelins) and then a rapidly widening shot dispersion beyond that, say graduating down to 50% at 225m, would go a long way to solving that problem. |
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Post by Redfiend on Aug 29, 2020 14:15:06 GMT -5
Danny Linguini Mortars tend to be focused on where the main fatboi brawl pit is happening. The best way I've found of avoiding them is to keep the main push for a point capture to after everything in the immediate area of it is dead. You can't get mortared if nothing has line of sight on you. That, and not hanging around fatbois too often when piloting Scouts and Attackers. Scouts on flank aren't going to get mortared, the two Juggernauts sitting on the point are. Sniping line of sight from further back on the lanes leading to fatbois isn't going to get mortared, and if they do get flung your way, you have enough field of view to actually see them coming and avoid them. The only time I really get mortared is when I'm in my Jug or camping a point where most of the active brawlers are condensed into a small area. Keeping cover when Jug's shield is down makes Mortars damn near useless against me, if they do hit me, they'll just knock out the shield, and tell me it's time to push for a better position while laying down fire. Mortars are dead weapons under 40M, just like all other bombardment weapons. It's just a pain that AI run them on Gurdians and actually does a competent job of leading you to where their allies will murder you. It's no different than light bots leading you into sniper fire, or putting the enemy tanks between you and them while continuing to pelt you with just enough firepower to give you a bad time whether you take the fight or not. They're not without counters, and Javelins can be just as devastating under the same conditions. They are spread out the further away the mortar is fired from. When a Mortar bot is chucking from enemy spawn, the overlap between both mounts is the death zone of getting nailed, as is having 20k health or less. The more I play, the more I only get glanced from them, by knowing where they're going to be coming from, how long it takes for the next volley to be up, and where I need to be/how much I need to move to make sure the next volley doesn't connect.
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Post by frunobulax on Aug 29, 2020 14:20:08 GMT -5
Mortars become available very early in the game. None of my bots is 3*. I get killed left and right by the ?fluffernutter?ing things, while walking towards the shooter.
I don't give a ?dookie? if this gets better as I hit 3* bots, I won't be around this long most likely. As a game designer, one should make sure that players get hooked and continue to play past the first 1-2 weeks. At least for me, RM deaths frustrate me enough to shut down the game for the day, and very soon perhaps permanently. Guess I'll give BoT another shot.
Everything in this game is movement and planning. Straight lines and standing around exposed is just as much an invitation to death in this game as in any other competent shooter. Rocket Mortars aren't as common as you make them out to be, it only feels that way because it feels bad and you're focusing on it. It's no different than losing a bot to a sniper you didn't see, knowing it's out there is the key to avoiding it. You're not getting my point. They're killing my fun with this game, plain and simple. I don't give a 「fluffernutter」 if they are balanced or not. Hydras were balanced, but killed my fun with War Robots once the Hydra Spectre became meta. Consequently, I quit the game (way longer than they were a thing, btw). I could have avoided them, I could have built one myself, but why in the world would I play a game whose mechanics I don't like? I don't need a game where sitting back and hiding is a winning strategy.
Chess is a very balanced games. So is bingo. Both bore the 「fluffernutter」 out of me. I don't care if Mortars are balanced or not. They represent a gamestyle that I don't enjoy, and if I'm getting killed by them left and right, I'll eventually hit the uninstall button. BoT is out there, so I'll be able to get my mech game fix without War Robots and MA.
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Post by Redfiend on Aug 29, 2020 14:37:58 GMT -5
frunobulax, to each their own. Just because you don't like it, nor playing against it, doesn't change that it's there and does what it does. They're under-tuned and imbalanced, but not by the margin you make them out to be. Your hatred of getting killed by them, and refusal of actually doing what's necessary to counter-play them, makes them ~feel~ more prominent than they are. Snipers are almost ubiquitous on every map, in every match, and it's far more common to get wiped off of the map because the enemy AI decides it's not going to miss today, than it is to get killed by a mortar. Do you hate snipers as much as Mortars? If you did you'd be just as angry about those rare insta-deletes that happen at the beginning of the match because you weren't aware you were exposed to a sniper lane, and would be yelling about quitting over them the same way you are about Mortars. Mech games are basically an exaggeration of tank warfare, getting mortared happens, and it's something that needs to be taken into account when planning an assault. Mortars aren't guided and can be avoided, unlike War Robots's Hydras.
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Post by ѻﻭɼﻉ on Aug 30, 2020 0:43:54 GMT -5
I had one match where someone hid in a far hard to reach corner and emptied my entire hangar with RM10; I was pretty pissed, as there was not much overhead cover to use and a lot of enemies were between me and the opponent. HOWEVER, I don’t encounter RM very much, and when I do notice it I can evade hits most of the time. Here are a few suggestions, which obviously require your knowledge of the opponent and either have LOS or see the salvo rise through the air:
- Shadow: run forward, sideways, or backwards to evade; enter stealth before they fire when possible; close on them and maintain close proximity to evade while shooting them
- Panther: activate barrier then straddle it so goes through the center of your mech, mortar hits barrier
- Killshot: same as Shadow, but your Melee Dash is super useful to rush forward so the mortar misses, and allows you to close in on the opponent
- Examining maps carefully for locations of overhead cover will help minimize exposure
I agree the RM needs some adjusting, perhaps a longer cooldown, but they aren’t proliferating in every match like all the other weapons, so it’s not really as big a deal as we make it out to be.
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Post by frunobulax on Aug 30, 2020 5:30:42 GMT -5
Here are a few suggestions, which obviously require your knowledge of the opponent and either have LOS or see the salvo rise through the air: - Shadow: run forward, sideways, or backwards to evade; enter stealth before they fire when possible; close on them and maintain close proximity to evade while shooting them - Panther: activate barrier then straddle it so goes through the center of your mech, mortar hits barrier - Killshot: same as Shadow, but your Melee Dash is super useful to rush forward so the mortar misses, and allows you to close in on the opponent - Examining maps carefully for locations of overhead cover will help minimize exposure Try any of these strategies when you're engaged with a red mech, that has 1-2 stars on you in weapons and equipment.
OP doesn't mean it can't be beaten. It just means that it affects the game way more than a single mech/weapon should. Or, in other words, that a player can dominate games without needing a lot of skill. And for mortars, this is my judgement.
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