beaconboy
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Post by beaconboy on Mar 21, 2017 19:14:47 GMT -5
Hello All,
I don't mind telling you that my last thread went a little too far in giving instruction on how to "game" the league and matchmaking systems. Apparently this violates the forum rules. I suppose I should read them. I offer my apologies for my ignorance and the fault.
My intention was to expose how the exploiters do what they do, expose some of them and urge the devs to address the issues. I advocated mimicking this bad behavior as sort of a call to action.
Instead, I offer this thread as a demonstration of how I have adapted my hanger to cope with the league rating changes. I have essentially two primary hangers: beacon hunters and damagers.
These are the first group. They are arranged in order of use. Notice I keep missiles and rockets off the lights because I find that my battle focus changes too much from caps to damage when I mount impact weapons over plasma.
The second one I will keep to myself, but they are all heavies loaded with those weapons that cause the most salvo/burst damage. Orkans, Thunders, Zeus, Aphids, Pinatas, Tulumbas and Tarans are the heaviest damaging weapons in the game. If you have no gold, forget the Orkans and Aphids. But really, you need these. Orkans are arguably the most powerful weapon in the game. Use these and fill in with whatever you prefer. Study the top scorers in your games for hints on what hits hardest. My bots tend to have the greater number of weapons mounts - Griffin (4), Rhino (4), Natasha (4), Patton (4) if you drop to a medium - because they cause more salvo damage. The Cowboy bots can be great at this too if mounted appropriately.
The only exception is the Fury with it's 3 heavy hard points, but only if you mount a weapon that cycles fast - Tridents or Zeus. Rockets are great because of the splash damage - Orkans, Tulumbas and Pinatas. Missiles are guided and generally do not cause splash or AOE damage - Spirals, Hydras and Aphids. Splash damage is great against clustered bots because you can score hits on multiple targets which is like getting bonus damage points.
Here are my general tactics: Depending on where my League level is, I use either hanger. Right now, it is mid-Silver I so I lean towards the beacon hanger. I am mining gold for being the high capper in team wins. Unfortunately, my wins pay less League points than my losses deduct so this is a losing proposition in terms of League level. This is because being the high cap generally means low damage and low awards for wins and high for losses.
Inevitably I am going to lose enough league points to drop a level or two. At that point I switch out my hanger for damage and battle my way back up the ladder. Depending on weapon level you will probably find this is easier than you think and may yield some extra gold for high damage and/or caps.
I am not gaming the system. I am merely playing 2 different hangars and coping with the results. So how am I going to progress? Well, it isn't going to happen with the beacon hanger so my strategy is to use this path to gradually upgrade my damage hanger. Currently, my damage hanger cannot move past the Silver 1 Tier. So I tend to play it until it caps out (where my loss rate increases) before I switch to the cap hanger. As my damage hanger upgrades weapons and damage potential, I will eventually move to the next League level. But overall, my overall battle plan will not change. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 19:25:47 GMT -5
I dunno brother. Hearing this advice, I think of playing pickup basketball. I could have two pairs of shoes. One pair are sturdy hi-tops, which I use only to play good defense, but I will refuse to shoot baskets. My other pair are the ones I use to only shoot jumpers. I don't play defense in those shoes.
Point being, you could just play the best complete game you can muster.
Combine your hangars and make your best 5 bot hangar, and be the best teammate you can be.
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beaconboy
Destrier
If you have no warning level then you are not really trying. ;)
Posts: 46
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Post by beaconboy on Mar 21, 2017 19:30:27 GMT -5
Doesn't work that way. If you combine you will end up with a hangar that really doesn't get you anywhere. Specialization is the ticket. Some players use a damage hanger with a Galahad. At my level, this usually results in a mid-level result - no gold for damage or caps. Hence the specialized hangers. This has no bearing on what kind of team mate I am. In fact, I consider myself the best kind of team mate you can have because I am always looking how to get the win or cover the slack in a game or map. I find that I am more big picture strategy than about any player I encounter in my games. My spawns always have me pausing looking for the opportunities for a win over personal glory. The fact that I am consistently the high awards winner in my clan speaks for itself.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 19:44:05 GMT -5
I disagree with you. Full stop.
By predetermining your hangar for a specific task, and limiting its ability to do another task, you are not remaining flexible enough to handle what the team needs most. Any bot can cap beacons just fine - some are just a little faster than others. The best hangars can cap, defend, and/or forcibly take beacons from red at all points in the game. Having an ECU cossak jumping around on the Blue team just tells me I am fighting 5 vs 6. Look, you have been playing a long time, as your 4500 wins attest. You are in silver league, either by choice, or by less than optimal hangar configuration.
I am not trying to change your mind. But I do not agree with your advice in the OP, and I hope other players that I play with or against will read the counter points here and field their best bots.
Enjoy the game.
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Post by Paps on Mar 21, 2017 20:04:02 GMT -5
Best way I found to 'Live with Leagues' is by ignoring them. Just play and try to have a good time. If I felt the game was more of an obligation than a pastime, I'd probably quit. I do, however, usually field the best possible hangar I can to benefit whatever team I find myself on. And I always play to win.
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Post by SoCalGrndR on Mar 21, 2017 20:06:54 GMT -5
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Post by whatttupG on Mar 21, 2017 22:47:24 GMT -5
Toothless grasshopper = not read, sorry
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Post by boomsplat on Mar 21, 2017 22:56:54 GMT -5
Your advice may work fine at lower leagues but will not work well as you climb. Just like heavypanda says you need a more balanced hanger unless you are going to stay in lower leagues forever. Doing damage AND capping beacons allows you to hold beacons which is critical for a win.
Specialized players tend to be niche players at best....a beacon capper specialist dropping in is fine for the first 2 minutes to get 3 beacons off the bat but won't do much for the squad the next 8 minutes when their bots are shot up and they mech out of the game quickly.....dead bots have a hard time capping beacons. The only time this specialist strategy works is in clan squad where you have other players whose line ups complement yours....also impossible to do with random solos.
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Post by cakeordeath on Mar 22, 2017 0:05:24 GMT -5
A generalized toolbox can fix more problems than a screwdriver kit or a bag of hammers. I understand the appeal of specialization, especially if you know your teammates will fill other roles, but I still like being able to reach into my toolbox for the right tool for the job at hand.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2017 1:52:36 GMT -5
Dude, you need to just play the game. Your thinking too much about the Leagues and not the game.
Play the game, don't let the game play you.
Get a balanced hanger of your best 5 bots and go out there and spank some derrière.
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Post by porcupyne on Mar 22, 2017 11:09:48 GMT -5
Yep, I soon developed a similar strategy after the leagues arrived but more to enjoy the game in either stomp or sprint mode.
I play my stomp and blast fellows (Rhino, Galahadx2, Carnage and a reserve Stalker for an emergency beacon hunt if we start losing)
This gets me to low gold whereupon I hit a brick wall and can't get gold and earn very little silver.
As soon as being on the low end of the table starts to get annoying I switch out the hanger for a light and quick set up and have fun with the high speed/ducking from cover to cover/ambush for a change of pace. My ranking inevitably falls to a point (low silver) where a switch back to the heavier stuff restarts my climb.
If I was sticking with one hanger and grinding endlessly against a wall of superior opponents at the very limit of my ability I'd probably get bored of the game and quit. Changing it up and moving around the leagues is keeping it interesting.
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beaconboy
Destrier
If you have no warning level then you are not really trying. ;)
Posts: 46
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Post by beaconboy on Mar 23, 2017 14:48:16 GMT -5
First or all, I agree with about 95% of the comments above and actually follow the same practices. I do not play only 2 specialized hangers; that would be boring. BTW, here is my damage hanger, or at least one iteration of it.
Some quick answers to comments above:
Regarding hanger flexibility - agree however I have found in both Silver II and I that this yields less gold than the specialized hangers. Moreover, occasionally I will use my Galahad in the damager hanger just for this purpose. In fact, the beacon hanger includes both the Galahad and a Rhino which can, many times rack up enough damage points to yield 10 gold.
Regarding the 5 v 6 comment - that is not a fair assessment. Usually my beacon cap games start with me capping 2 or 3 beacons with that Cossack before anyone even fires a single shot. This puts strategic pressure of the other team as I continue to press for beacons. The cappers are fast and can get to most beacons on a map very quickly. This allows me to keep the pressure on the other team for caps. Most times, my wins never make it beyond 7 minutes; quicker if there is another capper on the team. Not fun for you damagers, but a win is a win and I am seeking gold with this hanger.
whatttupG , Interesting hangers for your results. I have never seen a player in your leagues with overall weapons that low in my games. Everyone I meet in Gold plus has Level 12 weapons. So good on you, or you are not showing us your "real" hanger specs. 
cakeordeath , Regarding this strategy at higher levels, you are so right. Hence my comment about using this in Silver II and I where I currently reside. I have not been able to climb out of Silver I with my best and strongest damage hanger because it seems that my team mates and foes almost always have Level 12 hangers and much higher level players (Diamond +). This limits my ability to score awards for wins and hurts me by maximizing my penalty points for losses.
As for the rest, yes you are all correct. I don't use these hangers exclusively because I like to mix it up. I admit that I don't play around as much as before Leagues because most of the time I get spanked into sobriety by huge loss penalties. Unfortunately that is the unintended consequence of the new League rules. We are now more concerned over the outcome than the experience. Or at least, I am. So yeah, maybe I am overthinking this. But in my defense, after getting smacked around on a losing streak of 10-12 games I am looking for solutions. This is my way of living with Leagues. As it says in the threat title.  |
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Post by cakeordeath on Mar 23, 2017 15:08:16 GMT -5
First or all, I agree with about 95% of the comments above and actually follow the same practices. I do not play only 2 specialized hangers; that would be boring. BTW, here is my damage hanger, or at least one iteration of it.
Some quick answers to comments above:
Regarding hanger flexibility - agree however I have found in both Silver II and I that this yields less gold than the specialized hangers. Moreover, occasionally I will use my Galahad in the damager hanger just for this purpose. In fact, the beacon hanger includes both the Galahad and a Rhino which can, many times rack up enough damage points to yield 10 gold.
Regarding the 5 v 6 comment - that is not a fair assessment. Usually my beacon cap games start with me capping 2 or 3 beacons with that Cossack before anyone even fires a single shot. This puts strategic pressure of the other team as I continue to press for beacons. The cappers are fast and can get to most beacons on a map very quickly. This allows me to keep the pressure on the other team for caps. Most times, my wins never make it beyond 7 minutes; quicker if there is another capper on the team. Not fun for you damagers, but a win is a win and I am seeking gold with this hanger.
whatttupG , Interesting hangers for your results. I have never seen a player in your leagues with overall weapons that low in my games. Everyone I meet in Gold plus has Level 12 weapons. So good on you, or you are not showing us your "real" hanger specs.
cakeordeath , Regarding this strategy at higher levels, you are so right. Hence my comment about using this in Silver II and I where I currently reside. I have not been able to climb out of Silver I with my best and strongest damage hanger because it seems that my team mates and foes almost always have Level 12 hangers and much higher level players (Diamond +). This limits my ability to score awards for wins and hurts me by maximizing my penalty points for losses.
As for the rest, yes you are all correct. I don't use these hangers exclusively because I like to mix it up. I admit that I don't play around as much as before Leagues because most of the time I get spanked into sobriety by huge loss penalties. Unfortunately that is the unintended consequence of the new League rules. We are now more concerned over the outcome than the experience. Or at least, I am. So yeah, maybe I am overthinking this. But in my defense, after getting smacked around on a losing streak of 10-12 games I am looking for solutions. This is my way of living with Leagues. As it says in the threat title. You've got a very respectable Silver 1 hangar there. You will probably tip over into Gold 3 with the addition of a premium goon bot or a bit more leveling. I run a slightly lower level hangar (lvl 7 bots w/lvl7-8 weapons) with more premium toys and I'm just hanging in there at the very bottom of gold. I know I'm at the bottom end for my league leveling-wise. I wouldn't say that Gold plus is all 12/12 but diamond does seem to be 11+ and Gold 1 is close behind. Gold 3 is mostly lvl 9-10 gear from what I've seen. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 15:12:11 GMT -5
beaconboy, Seeing your 2nd hangar helps clarify things a bit. I originally read your post as you were running the suboptimal hangar to drop, and then inserting some max gear to climb. You are absolutely entitled to run any combos and hangars that you enjoy. My approach is a bit different as I stated. My gear is ~9/10, nothing higher. I think you might find when you complete your upgrades to 9's, you will advance into and across Gold. When you start getting things to 10's you will reach diamond. Yes, there are some tough games to face, but you will get plenty of wins as well. Good luck to you.
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beaconboy
Destrier
If you have no warning level then you are not really trying. ;)
Posts: 46
Karma: 15
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Post by beaconboy on Mar 23, 2017 15:29:16 GMT -5
cakeordeath, Yes I do have a premium goon bot, a Level 8 Lancelot, but I have been disappointed with it. The armor on a Galahad is better than on a Lancelot in practice. Still, I pull it out for fun once in awhile.
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Post by cakeordeath on Mar 23, 2017 15:44:37 GMT -5
cakeordeath , Yes I do have a premium goon bot, a Level 8 Lancelot, but I have been disappointed with it. The armor on a Galahad is better than on a Lancelot in practice. Still, I pull it out for fun once in awhile. I prefer the shield on my galahads to my lances' 3 part shield but the brute firepower of the Lance is nice sometimes. |
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Post by whatttupG on Mar 23, 2017 19:16:00 GMT -5
whatttupG , Interesting hangers for your results. I have never seen a player in your leagues with overall weapons that low in my games. Everyone I meet in Gold plus has Level 12 weapons. So good on you, or you are not showing us your "real" hanger specs.
Didn't think it was of any interest but it's certainly no secret info.. name and clan aren't thing's I'm into posting no, but bots or weapons have at it. Is this still low to you? I feel competitive in most matches but as posted more than once, I feel pretty screwed over by point systems and this league thing. It blows to drop a half mil or 620k on reds and get nailed with a loss or capture like 8 beacons and watch the other 5 salads get tossed. Also pretty sure I didn't imply or say I was in Gold anywhere... Here you go and yes I know it's still a fairly hot mess, I was caught very off guard when the 2.4 dropped, the moves to 2.5 and up haven't been kind yet either so, hammer away. If anyone else care's to comment, the door's open.  Oh and yes aphid Leo misfires all the time, I'm not sure though if stripping a Griffin is what I should do or not because of it. Either they will fix that or I have to figure out a fix, I don't own extra magnums or gekko's that might be a decent alternative so, that's an open tangent if you feel like driving there. |
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beaconboy
Destrier
If you have no warning level then you are not really trying. ;)
Posts: 46
Karma: 15
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Post by beaconboy on Mar 24, 2017 20:23:39 GMT -5
whatttupG This looks decent to me, your hanger, HOWEVER, according to Pixonic, your entire hanger gets rated at your highest bot level in MM. I'm not sure in practice, but if true, then all your bots appear to be 10 to the MM algorithm, which would suck. Your Griff has high potential so keep upgrading it, emphasis on the weapons. I would prioritize getting a 5th hanger slot - it made my experience way better. Then get Mags for the Leo. The issue for the Leo seems to be missile height; on the Leo, the Aphids do not seem to arc as high as on something else. Put the Aphids on either a Gep or Patton. A great 5th bot is also a Carnage with 2x Thunders. Normally, I don't like the limited hard points, but 2 Thunders deal terrific damage.
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Post by whatttupG on Mar 25, 2017 4:57:08 GMT -5
whatttupG This looks decent to me, your hanger, HOWEVER, according to Pixonic, your entire hanger gets rated at your highest bot level in MM. I'm not sure in practice, but if true, then all your bots appear to be 10 to the MM algorithm, which would suck. Your Griff has high potential so keep upgrading it, emphasis on the weapons. I would prioritize getting a 5th hanger slot - it made my experience way better. Then get Mags for the Leo. The issue for the Leo seems to be missile height; on the Leo, the Aphids do not seem to arc as high as on something else. Put the Aphids on either a Gep or Patton. A great 5th bot is also a Carnage with 2x Thunders. Normally, I don't like the limited hard points, but 2 Thunders deal terrific damage. Thanks for the advice, I'm saving for slot 5 and trying to pile up everything else, but it's painfully slow. Plus, just trying to play "normally" anymore, there is such a massive difference between squad and solo play, going random is getting dumb. Whatever rating or averaging or algorithm is going on, it really sucks. In squad, I can do 3/400k or so pretty consistently, not bad for me. In random, it's common to be around 500k and up, a big jump in score. Same line up, same play style, yet way different results. In squad, I tend to win at least half the time or better, beacons are way harder to come by but team play is miles ahead and this saves a bunch of games. Overall, points pile up. In solo, it's very easy to pile up beacons but it usually doesn't help the bottom line because the teams seem to mostly suck. Heavy damage that's well above norm should be a huge plus, but that too is futile when you wind up with the lose.. losing in random is very common, 4-1 leads are blown over and over, and the win/loss.. it's no where near 50/50.. it's getting to where it's just an exercise in point removal. End result, squad some, random some. Scratch a few points in squad, then blow it all and more in solo.. this is getting kinda old and league wise, lol.. this is a total waste of time if you care about that. I know some will just run to defend the MM and how you'll play up or down until you level... that's crap... going down to find easier kills also brings dumber teammates. Looking at the data, it agrees. More damage, more beacons, more losses. I don't know what the rest of you see, but this is daily here and honestly it's getting kinda lame. Dropping further sure seems to make things worse, not better, not easier... if I wanna move up at all, I'll need to fully skip random play... the teams suck, the results suck, the experience sucks. What a bummer. |
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Post by Zombie BBQ on Mar 25, 2017 21:19:40 GMT -5
Best way I found to 'Live with Leagues' is by ignoring them. Just play and try to have a good time. If I felt the game was more of an obligation than a pastime, I'd probably quit. I do, however, usually field the best possible hangar I can to benefit whatever team I find myself on. And I always play to win. Well said Paps! I just play and have fun..I am not to worried about League advancement it will come as I get better. But that said I do hate the way the new MM is putting players in unbalanced matches. I have been in a few matches where I have played against players lower than me from Bronze 3 coming into a match against me in Silver 2 .. I feel bad when we win so fast because they didn't stand a chance. |
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