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Post by NexusBlade on Oct 27, 2019 21:03:22 GMT -5
People always claim that "x" update will kill the game, and they're always proven wrong, players keep playing and paying, so you surely have thought to yourself how this is possible? Simply put... balance is irrelevant in this game, and dwelling on it is futile, let's delve into why.
A competitive game requires one key factor, skill relevancy by victory through mastery, every loss and failure is thoroughly deserved, mastery cannot be purchased, i.e. no amount of money will make you better at chess, if it could? it would not be competitive logically.
Lets take a trip down memory lane, to the "Good ole days" of Walking War Robots, the time when the gameplay was competitive and fair... Except one problem... It wasn't. This will surely offend people, but here's a reality check, this game was p2w on bloody day 1, sure the game wasn't "AS" p2w, Wasn't "AS" unfair, but that distinction is irrelevant, the fact is you could buy power, or otherwise acquire it, destabilizing any potential competitive environment, victory through mastery was not a key game factor. People say dash bots ruined the game, stealth bots, pantheon, etc, they're all wrong, it's just hard to admit the game has always been broken, and thats why the game hasn't died, because they can't possibly break it, you just ignored the shattered glass you were walking across and thought it was normal, the game hasn't really changed, perspectives did, but we always like to think the past was better in general, and thus falsely claim the issues the game face are new, is ares the problem? no, leech? no, last stand? no, mk2? no, anything you can bring up is merely a symptom of the disease.
I don't expect you all to accept this, but this is the brutal truth, if you cling to some hope of the game getting better, keep in mind they haven't fixed the problem in the 5 years the game has been out.
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Post by oncethedevil3 on Oct 27, 2019 21:22:22 GMT -5
Well, duh...
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Post by NexusBlade on Oct 27, 2019 21:29:12 GMT -5
You would think so, but some people don't consider this, balance is a huge discussion point on this forum. |
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Post by oncethedevil3 on Oct 27, 2019 21:37:01 GMT -5
You’re absolutely correct, of course. It’s perpetuated here.
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Post by linearblade on Oct 27, 2019 22:39:16 GMT -5
There were MANY examples in the history of this game where it was more or less “fair”
Most of which came before dash.
A little of which came after spectre nerf
The messed up part of the game came post dash.
You can lip stick the pig all you want , or be pixonics shill, but that’s the actual reality.
Being a sheep and accepting nonsense as reality is way the world becomes polluted and corrupt.
Nobody cares if there is some advantage. Everyone gets that, and it’s even preferred I suspect. People want a goal to strive for.
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Post by NexusBlade on Oct 27, 2019 22:51:39 GMT -5
There were MANY examples in the history of this game where it was more or less “fair” Most of which came before dash. A little of which came after spectre nerf The messed up part of the game came post dash. You can lip stick the pig all you want , or be pixonics shill, but that’s the actual reality. Being a sheep and accepting nonsense as reality is way the world becomes polluted and corrupt. Nobody cares if there is some advantage. Everyone gets that, and it’s even preferred I suspect. People want a goal to strive for. Trying to break down what your point is, I take it you don't fully agree. First of more or less fair is irrelevant, the issues you can list are numerous, but dependant on p2w to enable them, if anyone could just start the game with a leech at full strength it wouldn't be nearly as unfair would it, its unfair because of a haves and haves not dilemma, balance has nothing to do with this. As for wanting to have a power advantage... that's fine, perfectly reasonable, but to talk about balance and skill are antithetical to that end, to attempt to uphold both would to be at conflict with yourself, perhaps you can elaborate where you stand on this. As for the whole shill thing I can't see how it would be addressing me, so I assume its a general statement. |
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Post by Nitro on Oct 27, 2019 23:05:54 GMT -5
Back in the "good ole days" we had gepard clubbers, and in the top leagues we had an oversaturation of Trident Furies that would lay waste to all but Ancilots, the head honcho brawlers.
Those were simpler times, but still unbalanced.
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Post by linearblade on Oct 27, 2019 23:12:07 GMT -5
Back in the "good ole days" we had gepard clubbers, and in the top leagues we had an oversaturation of Trident Furies that would lay waste to all but Ancilots, the head honcho brawlers. Those were simpler times, but still unbalanced. They were hardly unbalanced because gep clubbing was a low level tbing And gold wasn’t hard to come by, so anyone could have them with some patience Mk2 wasn’t a thing, and tridents, while strong were never so dangerous that you could play. Support weapons do what they’ve always done; lay waste to cowards. They should be renamed terror weapons. |
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Post by linearblade on Oct 27, 2019 23:18:15 GMT -5
There were MANY examples in the history of this game where it was more or less “fair” Most of which came before dash. A little of which came after spectre nerf The messed up part of the game came post dash. You can lip stick the pig all you want , or be pixonics shill, but that’s the actual reality. Being a sheep and accepting nonsense as reality is way the world becomes polluted and corrupt. Nobody cares if there is some advantage. Everyone gets that, and it’s even preferred I suspect. People want a goal to strive for. Trying to break down what your point is, I take it you don't fully agree. First of more or less fair is irrelevant, the issues you can list are numerous, but dependant on p2w to enable them, if anyone could just start the game with a leech at full strength it wouldn't be nearly as unfair would it, its unfair because of a haves and haves not dilemma, balance has nothing to do with this. As for wanting to have a power advantage... that's fine, perfectly reasonable, but to talk about balance and skill are antithetical to that end, to attempt to uphold both would to be at conflict with yourself, perhaps you can elaborate where you stand on this. As for the whole shill thing I can't see how it would be addressing me, so I assume its a general statement. Haves and have not... no. I definitely “have” That’s not my problem. My problem is that I suspect much of the player base in champion “has” The problem is we aren’t playing a reality game. Because in reality no military fields only top shelf equipment. They have some top shelf and the remainder is budgeted to “gets the job done”. This is a game. Both sides need to have fun. When it doesn’t. One side takes their ball and leaves. |
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Post by godzillasaurus on Oct 28, 2019 1:04:11 GMT -5
Well, Walking War Robots was still a free mobile game. Old Pixonic had to make money somehow. It was either IAPs or ads, and the latter wasn't as popular on the mobile market as it is today.
Anyway, I don't really think anybody actually thinks Walking War Robots was 100% balanced. The power gap between F2P and P2W in modern War Robots was a league larger than it was in Walking War Robots. Comparing War Robots to old Walking War Robots, you could easily call Walking War Robots "balanced". Kind of like comparing a papercut to a mass murder. To the victim, the papercut is slightly painful and overall unpleasant, but it's nothing at all when compared to the latter.
P2W in Walking War Robots was an issue, yes, but is really nothing in the face of all the issues modern War Robots is plagued with.
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Post by Cdr. Crimmins on Oct 28, 2019 7:42:33 GMT -5
Everybody talks about Walking War Robots and the MagGep days like it was this terrible, ruinous thing.
My then 8yo autistic son plowed through the, as he put it, 'cheater robots', in about a month and then was largely free of ever seeing them in combat. Even in the MagGep zone you could literally and without any punishment leave the match if you didn't want to tangle with them. And the domination of the Trident Fury lasted a couple of months at the close of 2016 and AFAICT only really impacted trash gold up to high gold.
Only with the introduction of the Leagues and the end of any semblance of hangar strength matchmaking did the need to punish players for not playing the game the 'right' way occur. Only then did clubbing range fully up and down the leagues, with no escape ever, occur. Only then did tanking ever come into being. Only then did your teammates approach to the game impact YOUR standing in the game.
And not for nothing, but the 'PTW' Gepard was a $5 robot. So, yeah. The game was far more balanced and far more fun to a far larger audience. Those were the days when Walking War Robots became a monster hit with player numbers ballooning upwards month after month after month.
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Post by Koalabear on Oct 28, 2019 9:02:14 GMT -5
The game has always been unbalanced. I remember my times in the low leagues. I was struggling with trying to decide what to upgrade and playing around with builds, and I kept getting matched up with people with L10 and higher gear. What's changed for me is that I've got good solid bots now that I like to play, and I purposely keep them at L9 (I am planning to upgrade them to L10 though).
Anyway, the game has to evolve and change in order to stay relevant. Just like how weapons in RL evolved from muskets to assault rifles, so too must weapons in a game get better and more powerful. I don't disagree with this. I also remember a time when I couldn't consistently kill an Ancilot and times when my Fujin was reduced to scrap before it even made it to cover on Yamantau by maxed Gekkos and Trebs. It almost feels like things didn't really change until the dash bots. When I got a Bulg, I finally lost my fear of Ancilots and Carnages. So, I'm not adverse to new content.
What I don't like is the speed at which new content is coming at us. Pix promised us last year that there wouldn't be as many content releases this year. I don't know why, but this broken promise erks me the most. Hell, we just got the freaking Leech and now there are 3 new guns?? Seriously, slow this train down or else by next year, we'll all be zapping each other with insta-kill guns and War Robots will simply be COD with bot skins.
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Post by balrog89 on Oct 28, 2019 9:14:37 GMT -5
There were MANY examples in the history of this game where it was more or less “fair” Most of which came before dash. A little of which came after spectre nerf The messed up part of the game came post dash. You can lip stick the pig all you want , or be pixonics shill, but that’s the actual reality. Being a sheep and accepting nonsense as reality is way the world becomes polluted and corrupt. Nobody cares if there is some advantage. Everyone gets that, and it’s even preferred I suspect. People want a goal to strive for. Stop man. Just stop. Rhino stampedes were fair or P2W? What about the Ancilot/TTFury days? Even your favorite bot was overpowered at release. With nerfs to Orkans and the present day energy meta, your favorite bots are still standing even though very few wish to play it. I mean, damage multiplier, enormous physical shield, huge health pool as well as DR. Dude, that thing is, has always been and always will be tough, yet you come on here day after day talking about "fair" and spewing hatred for the 1 or 2 bots that can face your machines 1 on 1. Just stop. |
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Post by _FakeNews_ on Oct 28, 2019 9:31:41 GMT -5
Another thing is, people, complain that x updates or nerfs will kill certain bots. for instance, the specter shocktrain nerf would kill the specter. I still se specters everywhere, the orkan nerf would kill the orkan. I got death-buttoned several times earlier today and my orkan redeemer Fenrir has always performed top notch. The shield breaker will kill the ares, please. nothing is going to completely kill that thing, its retribution is too good.
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Post by cav8r on Oct 28, 2019 9:52:03 GMT -5
People always claim that "x" update will kill the game, and they're always proven wrong, players keep playing and paying, so you surely have thought to yourself how this is possible? Simply put... balance is irrelevant in this game, and dwelling on it is futile, let's delve into why. A competitive game requires one key factor, skill relevancy by victory through mastery, every loss and failure is thoroughly deserved, mastery cannot be purchased, i.e. no amount of money will make you better at chess, if it could? it would not be competitive logically. Lets take a trip down memory lane, to the "Good ole days" of Walking War Robots, the time when the gameplay was competitive and fair... Except one problem... It wasn't. This will surely offend people, but here's a reality check, this game was p2w on bloody day 1, sure the game wasn't "AS" p2w, Wasn't "AS" unfair, but that distinction is irrelevant, the fact is you could buy power, or otherwise acquire it, destabilizing any potential competitive environment, victory through mastery was not a key game factor. People say dash bots ruined the game, stealth bots, pantheon, etc, they're all wrong, it's just hard to admit the game has always been broken, and thats why the game hasn't died, because they can't possibly break it, you just ignored the shattered glass you were walking across and thought it was normal, the game hasn't really changed, perspectives did, but we always like to think the past was better in general, and thus falsely claim the issues the game face are new, is ares the problem? no, leech? no, last stand? no, mk2? no, anything you can bring up is merely a symptom of the disease. I don't expect you all to accept this, but this is the brutal truth, if you cling to some hope of the game getting better, keep in mind they haven't fixed the problem in the 5 years the game has been out. The game has always been broken...absolutely true! Many people have dramatically argued about how new releases would break the game...true! Hopes of this game ever being better or more balanced are null...true! Victory through mastery has never been the key factor..,true! That some balance and mastery being relevant along some other fixes would make this game better and extremely more popular than it is (maybe the most popular) is also true Dwelling On that fact may be futile in some ways but it brings people some sort of social empathy, relief, realization and sometimes even closure.... At the end of the day it is all about up to what extent are you willing to tolerate the different kinds and levels of unbalance that are present at any given time in the game |
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Post by linearblade on Oct 28, 2019 10:21:14 GMT -5
There were MANY examples in the history of this game where it was more or less “fair” Most of which came before dash. A little of which came after spectre nerf The messed up part of the game came post dash. You can lip stick the pig all you want , or be pixonics shill, but that’s the actual reality. Being a sheep and accepting nonsense as reality is way the world becomes polluted and corrupt. Nobody cares if there is some advantage. Everyone gets that, and it’s even preferred I suspect. People want a goal to strive for. Stop man. Just stop. Rhino stampedes were fair or P2W? What about the Ancilot/TTFury days? Even your favorite bot was overpowered at release. With nerfs to Orkans and the present day energy meta, your favorite bots are still standing even though very few wish to play it. I mean, damage multiplier, enormous physical shield, huge health pool as well as DR. Dude, that thing is, has always been and always will be tough, yet you come on here day after day talking about "fair" and spewing hatred for the 1 or 2 bots that can face your machines 1 on 1. Just stop. Dude if you somehow can equate the broken of yesteryear in any way to the broken of today, my hats off to you. There is a big difference. A WORLD of difference from “temporarily resistant to 1-2 out of 3 attack forms” and “fully invulnerable to ALL. Attack forms” And let’s not also forget the built in weapons and monstrous speed advantages bla bla bla. No. Just no. Play devils advocate all you want. But if you can’t see the difference between bots with a moderate advantage (and almost all of which had several disadvantages. Ie: massive speed hits , slow turning etc) to bots with overwhelming advantage and no disadvantages, Then I don’t know what to say. |
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Post by RightOn on Oct 28, 2019 10:45:30 GMT -5
Mag Gep was a consequence of the matchmaking. That bot alone changed the matchmaking. You're all at fault for milking that here. I never owned one gep until they threw them at me years later. Ten's of them.
Rhino existed at the same time. You'd see clans run 6 Rhinos in Yamantau and just walk the park, only to spawn more Rhinos if needed.
Fury was always 5000 Au, and 5th hangar cost 5k Au. You either had a Fury, had 5th hangar, or you paid for it. And even when you finally had both, the game was pretty much at British bot stage.
Which is the reason why Trident Fury became a menace. The British bots. It almost became necessary (to this day, a 31 year old man, I can't spell the word n-e-c-e-s-s-a-r-y). My peasantry had a Carnage Trident, which did pretty good anyway.
Ancilot was a strong build. Mostly because of the shields, also because of the ancile, but you could take it down after the first volley. I remember the Ancile patches were driving people nuts. I was applauding it, what with my Mag Pothead Leo and all. See? I made a bot designed to kill TT Fury.
Down the line they were talking about the molot/punisher buff and this is what the game needed to get away from the orkan madness. At this point in the game, everybody had their fill of orkans and it drove me nuts. It was boring as hell. Hence I promoted bots like Hydra Fujin to get away from the madness, but the ancile buff hurt it in retrospect of helping it. But that thing could take on the TT Fury like it was a joke.
That's when I took a break. I came back, to dismay of dash bots and absurd prices, and took yet another break. I restarted from iOS to Android, flipt the script, and had a much better time. Well, up until I hit mid expert. Then for a while I was just stuck.
I took yet another break. I came back. I haven't left since, because I changed my focus. I realized I didn't care about the winnings. I didn't care about how I was going to do. I just wanted to enjoy myself. I went past the 2nd hangar into 4 hangars, just to have something to work on. I like having a changing flow during my games. And although my gear isn't any higher level than I ever had, I'm doing significantly more damage than ever before, getting far more beacons than ever before, and the game is more exciting than ever before.
Yes it has its flaws, but what can I say? Also, switching from a phone to a chromebook helped immensely. But I won't say it doesn't have its querks.
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Post by integeritis on Oct 28, 2019 10:59:56 GMT -5
There were MANY examples in the history of this game where it was more or less “fair” Most of which came before dash. A little of which came after spectre nerf The messed up part of the game came post dash. You can lip stick the pig all you want , or be pixonics shill, but that’s the actual reality. Being a sheep and accepting nonsense as reality is way the world becomes polluted and corrupt. Nobody cares if there is some advantage. Everyone gets that, and it’s even preferred I suspect. People want a goal to strive for. Trying to break down what your point is, I take it you don't fully agree. First of more or less fair is irrelevant, the issues you can list are numerous, but dependant on p2w to enable them, if anyone could just start the game with a leech at full strength it wouldn't be nearly as unfair would it, its unfair because of a haves and haves not dilemma, balance has nothing to do with this. As for wanting to have a power advantage... that's fine, perfectly reasonable, but to talk about balance and skill are antithetical to that end, to attempt to uphold both would to be at conflict with yourself, perhaps you can elaborate where you stand on this. As for the whole shill thing I can't see how it would be addressing me, so I assume its a general statement. I don’t have a Leech, I don’t have a Phantom. I don’t want a Leech, I don’t want a Phantom. I have an Ares but I did not have a desire to have an Ares. I just won it, but did not level it. I do have a desire to max my bulg/haechi pretty much anything that was released 2018 and before, problem is, they cost the same to level as the bots that completely annihilate them without taking a scratch. I don’t care about meta but I can’t even afford to level last year’s meta. That is the HUGE problem with balance. The upgrade cost of bots does not match their respective power level. A Haechi does not worth 400 million silver to mk2. Last year summer, maybe, but not in 2019. |
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Post by Rollo Tomasi on Oct 28, 2019 11:01:07 GMT -5
Yes, there has been power for sale and it’s resulting imbalance since day 1. However, there was still some level of balance and tradeoff; Fury was slow AF, Rhino couldn’t turn or use 2 of its weapons when charging, geps were fast but low HP, stalker was fast but fragile and underpowered, etc. Also, the P2W investment wasn’t THAT high. If I recall correctly, Gep was $4.99 if you didn’t want to grind out for the gold to buy one.
The real problem is the insulting level of skill erosion that has escalated sharply since the HB/Ares era. Instead of lightly armored speedsters, glass cannons and slow tanks, we now have speedy, unkillable princess bots with rediculous firepower and crack-pipe modules that all require less and less skill (but more and more money) to dominate in battle. And’t don’t me started on the whole WhaaaaWaaaa, I can’t hit a moving target thing.
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Post by #1 worst pilot on Oct 28, 2019 13:22:26 GMT -5
Another thing is, people, complain that x updates or nerfs will kill certain bots. for instance, the specter shocktrain nerf would kill the specter. I still se specters everywhere, the orkan nerf would kill the orkan. I got death-buttoned several times earlier today and my orkan redeemer Fenrir has always performed top notch. The shield breaker will kill the ares, please. nothing is going to completely kill that thing, its retribution is too good. You can't kill it...it has last stan lol. |
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Post by NexusBlade on Oct 28, 2019 14:28:02 GMT -5
Well, Walking War Robots was still a free mobile game. Old Pixonic had to make money somehow. It was either IAPs or ads, and the latter wasn't as popular on the mobile market as it is today. Anyway, I don't really think anybody actually thinks Walking War Robots was 100% balanced. The power gap between F2P and P2W in modern War Robots was a league larger than it was in Walking War Robots. Comparing War Robots to old Walking War Robots, you could easily call Walking War Robots "balanced". Kind of like comparing a papercut to a mass murder. To the victim, the papercut is slightly painful and overall unpleasant, but it's nothing at all when compared to the latter. P2W in Walking War Robots was an issue, yes, but is really nothing in the face of all the issues modern War Robots is plagued with. The key factor is the issues the game faces now could not be possible if the game was set up differently, here's some examples: Pay upfront, Ftp but sell cosmetics and use ads, Ive seen games stay online on ads alone, the argument that microtransactions are necessary is not necessarily correct, this is mostly (not absolutely) an issue with mobile games, pc game designers seem to have no issue making it work, the game would be better if it had been designed to actually be competitive, I would say about 50-60 dollars for the game would be fair, or sell skins and models for about 2-5 dollars a piece, perhaps run ads or run a fundraiser, there's many things they could have done, but didn't. |
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Post by NexusBlade on Oct 28, 2019 14:44:12 GMT -5
I don’t have a Leech, I don’t have a Phantom. I don’t want a Leech, I don’t want a Phantom. I have an Ares but I did not have a desire to have an Ares. I just won it, but did not level it. I do have a desire to max my bulg/haechi pretty much anything that was released 2018 and before, problem is, they cost the same to level as the bots that completely annihilate them without taking a scratch. I don’t care about meta but I can’t even afford to level last year’s meta. That is the HUGE problem with balance. The upgrade cost of bots does not match their respective power level. A Haechi does not worth 400 million silver to mk2. Last year summer, maybe, but not in 2019. Incorrect, that is not a balance problem, that is a p2w game problem, upgrading shouldn't be a mechanic in a supposedly competitive game, the fact your Haechi and Bulgasari aren't ready to go full power out of the box is a disgrace, thus what I said people are walking over broken glass and calling it normal, you shouldn't have to upgrade those bots in the first place. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2019 15:34:12 GMT -5
People always claim that "x" update will kill the game, and they're always proven wrong, players keep playing and paying, so you surely have thought to yourself how this is possible? Simply put... balance is irrelevant in this game, and dwelling on it is futile, let's delve into why. A competitive game requires one key factor, skill relevancy by victory through mastery, every loss and failure is thoroughly deserved, mastery cannot be purchased, i.e. no amount of money will make you better at chess, if it could? it would not be competitive logically. Lets take a trip down memory lane, to the "Good ole days" of Walking War Robots, the time when the gameplay was competitive and fair... Except one problem... It wasn't. This will surely offend people, but here's a reality check, this game was p2w on bloody day 1, sure the game wasn't "AS" p2w, Wasn't "AS" unfair, but that distinction is irrelevant, the fact is you could buy power, or otherwise acquire it, destabilizing any potential competitive environment, victory through mastery was not a key game factor. People say dash bots ruined the game, stealth bots, pantheon, etc, they're all wrong, it's just hard to admit the game has always been broken, and thats why the game hasn't died, because they can't possibly break it, you just ignored the shattered glass you were walking across and thought it was normal, the game hasn't really changed, perspectives did, but we always like to think the past was better in general, and thus falsely claim the issues the game face are new, is ares the problem? no, leech? no, last stand? no, mk2? no, anything you can bring up is merely a symptom of the disease. I don't expect you all to accept this, but this is the brutal truth, if you cling to some hope of the game getting better, keep in mind they haven't fixed the problem in the 5 years the game has been out. Balance chat is a big deal, probably too big of a deal, on here and it's given lots of oxygen on here by people like me. In fact, I'm probably one of the worst sinners. You have obviously been around for longer than I have, and I totally accept your premise about the game always being broken, but there is a pretty enormous hole in your argument. linearblade alluded to it, but I want to expound on it. If we ignore the power gap part of the debate - I think that it's worse (in my time of playing), some people don't - the changes have absolutely made the game worse to play, much worse (again, in my time of playing it). A dip into any smurf account below Gold would probably confirm this to anybody with sufficient interest to check. Yep, lockdown is available to everybody, nobody asks if anybody actually wants it. I don't. Damage resistance? No thanks, spending three minutes smashing a Falcon doesn't do it for me. Boosters? Boosters can go home. Pilot skills? A half tip of the hat for this, the Lancelot is reborn! Unfortunately, they are only there to increase the power gap and sell gold. Modules? Lockdown ammo? Worse gameplay. Double crack healing? More T Falcons. Phase Shift? Horrible. Really, really ridiculous, an utter skill crutch. All of these things have made the actual core product worse. Will the sky fall? Nope. Will the game fall to pieces? Probably not. We (or at least, I) complain because we care. Yes, the game was always and undoubtedly about spending money to beat up on other people, we can't change that. It still is, people are allowed to be aggravated about it. You can not look at balancing threads if you like, and hey, maybe Pix will find a not ridiculous money making gem on here and improve the game for everybody. |
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Post by NexusBlade on Oct 28, 2019 17:10:40 GMT -5
Balance chat is a big deal, probably too big of a deal, on here and it's given lots of oxygen on here by people like me. In fact, I'm probably one of the worst sinners. You have obviously been around for longer than I have, and I totally accept your premise about the game always being broken, but there is a pretty enormous hole in your argument. linearblade alluded to it, but I want to expound on it. If we ignore the power gap part of the debate - I think that it's worse (in my time of playing), some people don't - the changes have absolutely made the game worse to play, much worse (again, in my time of playing it). A dip into any smurf account below Gold would probably confirm this to anybody with sufficient interest to check. Yep, lockdown is available to everybody, nobody asks if anybody actually wants it. I don't. Damage resistance? No thanks, spending three minutes smashing a Falcon doesn't do it for me. Boosters? Boosters can go home. Pilot skills? A half tip of the hat for this, the Lancelot is reborn! Unfortunately, they are only there to increase the power gap and sell gold. Modules? Lockdown ammo? Worse gameplay. Double crack healing? More T Falcons. Phase Shift? Horrible. Really, really ridiculous, an utter skill crutch. All of these things have made the actual core product worse. Will the sky fall? Nope. Will the game fall to pieces? Probably not. We (or at least, I) complain because we care. Yes, the game was always and undoubtedly about spending money to beat up on other people, we can't change that. It still is, people are allowed to be aggravated about it. You can not look at balancing threads if you like, and hey, maybe Pix will find a not ridiculous money making gem on here and improve the game for everybody. I have not ignored this detail, I preemptively discussed it by saying any issues you can bring up are not in of themselves the problem, but a symptom, fixing xyz issue won't fix the game, thats the Crux of my argument, is even an otherwise perfectly balanced game, if its p2w, won't be balanced, therefore obsessing over balance is mostly futile, Noble, but futile. There are massive sweeping changes to fix p2w that unfortunately I don't see happening, so In the meantime we balance what cannot be truly balanced. |
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Post by T34 on Oct 28, 2019 17:32:35 GMT -5
OP, with no disrespect, I think you got this wrong. Really wrong. Not entirely sure how the chess example is worked into your argument but lets stick with it because it illustrates a concept rather well. Chess is a completely balanced game as long as it is played within the rules. It would become unbalanced if one player could buy an extra queen and face off against people with one queen. Even more unbalanced if one player could buy 5 queens and play against a player with a standard set. The relevance of skill diminishes as the game becomes more unbalanced. Also worth mentioning that the effort required to master the skill of chess is incomparable to what is required to master gameplay in War Robots. In this context, comparing war robots to standard chess would be false equivalence. IMO where you went wrong with your argument is that you have largely ignored equivalence between Walking War Robots and War Robots (today) in terms of P2W and game psychology. Indeed, both games were/are P2W. I have no issues with acknowledging that. But there is a huge equivalence problem. Example, $400 in Walking War Robots would have bought you a maxed or near maxed hanger. That today practically buys you a bot. Pixonic, in the interest of making money monetised the game and unbalanced the game more and more over the years. The more they unbalance the game the more forgone revenue they collect provided they do not unbalance it so much that people wont bother playing it or pay for content. There is copious amount of literature on this matter even from Pixonic’s former head of Game design where he goes into detail. integeritis ‘s video above is another example. I challenge you to watch the video posted and to read Ilya Smirnov’s (former head of Pix game design) presentation about how Walking War Robots was monitised and say your premises and conclusions in the OP are correct. Players claiming things and forecast things and getting it wrong is not a good reason to use to validate your statement that balance is not relevant. They got it wrong means Pix got it right for the masses as to how far they’ve pushed the envelope. |
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Post by Rollo Tomasi on Oct 28, 2019 18:35:46 GMT -5
OP, with no disrespect, I think you got this wrong. Really wrong. Not entirely sure how the chess example is worked into your argument but lets stick with it because it illustrates a concept rather well. Chess is a completely balanced game as long as it is played within the rules. It would become unbalanced if one player could buy an extra queen and face off against people with one queen. Even more unbalanced if one player could buy 5 queens and play against a player with a standard set. The relevance of skill diminishes as the game becomes more unbalanced. Also worth mentioning that the effort required to master the skill of chess is incomparable to what is required to master gameplay in War Robots. In this context, comparing war robots to standard chess would be false equivalence. IMO where you went wrong with your argument is that you have largely ignored equivalence between Walking War Robots and War Robots (today) in terms of P2W and game psychology. Indeed, both games were/are P2W. I have no issues with acknowledging that. But there is a huge equivalence problem. Example, $400 in Walking War Robots would have bought you a maxed or near maxed hanger. That today practically buys you a bot. Pixonic, in the interest of making money monetised the game and unbalanced the game more and more over the years. The more they unbalance the game the more forgone revenue they collect provided they do not unbalance it so much that people wont bother playing it or pay for content. There is copious amount of literature on this matter even from Pixonic’s former head of Game design where he goes into detail. integeritis ‘s video above is another example. I challenge you to watch the video posted and to read Ilya Smirnov’s (former head of Pix game design) presentation about how Walking War Robots was monitised and say your premises and conclusions in the OP are correct. Players claiming things and forecast things and getting it wrong is not a good reason to use to validate your statement that balance is not relevant. They got it wrong means Pix got it right for the masses as to how far they’ve pushed the envelope. Not just a queen, but a queen/knight love child that gets 2 moves vs a regular queen AND has to be captured 3 times before it leaves the board. All of that times 3 to 5. And by the time the f2p and pocket change warriors can get it and upgrade it, suddenly it only has the power of a Rook. [backspace, backspace, backspace and delete the rant before it begins] |
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Post by Zedd on Oct 28, 2019 19:41:11 GMT -5
OP sorry to say this but feels like you know nothing about the game.
Equating metas of past with metas now is such a false equivalency that its beyond hilarious.
Yes the game was always unfair and unbalanced but not even close to the degree it is unfair and unbalanced now - the spectre was FAR worse than its dashing predecessors and so on. this doesnt mean that I think the game is going to shutdown. I dont think it will shutdown anytime soon.
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Post by Sgt. Beacon on Oct 28, 2019 20:39:26 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2019 20:40:01 GMT -5
The game is fun, but donâ??t have any delusions that any skill whatsoever is involved.
Thereâ??s more skill in Candy Crush than Phildo-P2W-o-rama
The fact the Leech exists is proof they Stan is laughing at the paying chumps all the way to the bank, overflowing with Stanâ??s growing pile of rubles. And If Phildo history has taught us anything in the land of Phildos, wait
until the Titans get here, and the increasingly effective Titans and super dooper Titans weapons, and then the even crazier wave that will follow that stupid ?dookie?...
Play it, enjoy it for what it is, NOT what it should be...it never was and never will be anything close to fair, this doesnâ??t get lap dances or lines of coke to snort off of silicone reinforced Russian lap dancer boobs
Oh yeah and one more, run Hover
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Post by Pulse Hadron on Oct 28, 2019 21:17:10 GMT -5
Walking War Robots was necessarily balanced because you were matched based on hangar strength so there was only a small window of power disparity. It wasn’t perfect but by far the largest factor to how well you did was your skill.
By getting rid of hangar strength matching and adding more and more powerful items the power disparity is a gaping wide window.
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