|
Post by SGT D00M! on Mar 16, 2017 9:30:36 GMT -5
No, you can do all power-runners if you want, but it is wise to have at least one mid-ranger or long range. Lately long range bots are becoming useful again as well. I recommend a mixed hangar that you enjoy most of all though.
|
|
|
Post by petevb on Mar 16, 2017 10:26:02 GMT -5
The need for range in a hanger has changed over the last 18 months or so. At that time all-brawler was preferable in the higher tiers, ideally 4+ Rhinos. The relative mobility and health of that bot made running range tricky as it could often attack and catch the best bots.
The game changed when other heavies including the Fury were given a large speed buff. Suddenly they were far less vulnerable and far more effective, which in turn meant we began to see far more of them. One plus range bot (two if you're Russian) soon became the standard.
The game has recently changed again, and I believe we're on our way back down to just over half a range bot per person, with some (strong) players choosing to run none.
The Ancile buff and resulting rise of the Ancilot is the main reason for this swing. Run in multiples they have the health to counter range themselves: by protecting brawler teammates they make rushing a Fury blockade viable again. I've had success testing all brawler lineups recently in Top in both solo and squad play (for example plasma Ancilot x2 / plasma Galahad x2 / plasma Gareth).
I have two maxed Trident Fury and have run them both with success before. However in today's game I no longer run even one. Most often I'll run a Fury (or Carnage) Zeus. Currently there are still enough Fury out there that countering them is important. However I question how long that's going to be the case. Would a team be better off running 2x Treb Butch to hit enemy mid-range and the rest brawlers? If not today, then in a month perhaps as more teams run Ancilot and fewer Fury? I think the answer may be yes, which would mean there is a place to successfully run an all brawler lineup again. If you've got an Ancilot.
|
|
|
Post by The VVatcher on Mar 17, 2017 5:22:27 GMT -5
Just as I thought. Like I said earlier in the thread, you don't need midrange if you run mostly Britbots.
Ancilot x3 and PDB Griffin x2. The 2 Griffins are for anti-Ancilot.
There's a tug-and-pull effect between Ancilot, TT Fury, and PDB Griffin/Galahad though. People might pull out more PDB to punch through Ancilot, TT Fury comes back to swat some Griffins.
JMO
|
|
|
Post by ernstuebermuth on Mar 18, 2017 17:00:17 GMT -5
I would like to agree with petevb that the reign of the TT fury has come to an end. Of course they are far from being obsolete, but apart from just buying one, the people seem to have adapt to the thread and found adequate ways to counter it. The TT fury in its prime slaughtered brawlers waves by waves, which was possible as people were recklessly pushing forward into the trident fire or were too desperate to even try out how to do it smarter. In my games I found the TT furies less and less fearsome, and in my view its just another asset to choose. When the decision came to me, I chose the Ancilot. It just fitted more to my playstyle, as I like brawling and beacon-capping. As a TT fury pilot, you are actually not an attacker, but a territory defender. With half of the maps are designed for closerange combat, the fury is quite handicapped in those maps. The main use of furies is staying in range of center beacon and take out any opponent brawler who is coming to cap it. With proliferation of Ancilots this task become more and more difficult, as the Ancilots will be able to cap the center beacon often even without dying. And if your team is in beacon deficite, the fury wont be much of use, because its everything but not a beacon capper. For mid-range support, I still prefer the RDB Griffin. It has a much lower DPS than the TT fury and less range, but can compensate with a higher survivalibilty and mobility. It needs more skills than the fury, but wisely piloted, it might be superior to anything except ancile equipped bots.
And PDB Griffin is quite an inadequate counter to Ancilot...
|
|
|
Post by jazzykat on Mar 18, 2017 23:16:42 GMT -5
I am playing in Gold 3 and there are not that many ancilots (yet) but I am hopefully going back to gold 2 and perhaps even to 1 in a couple weeks.
In the lower tiers where I am, there are MANY Carnage Zeus's/Trident/Trebuchet as they are much cheaper than Fury's. Here is where PDB Galahad really shines and the Rhino is quite OK as the reds blast away impotently at your shield and you can run into range (using cover if you want to preserve your shield or not) and hose them.
When I catch wind of a TT Fury I usually get blown up pretty quick and jump into my Ancilot. I don't always make it to kill the Fury (although I should probably level my Ancile past 8...) but I almost always live long enough to flip a center beacon. Unfortunately, at my level players do not get behind me (or if they are nice in front of me) and let me drive the Ancile bus but about once in 10 games.
I have also played without a mid-ranger for about 20 games and it was fine. Full disclosure I am pretty crap aiming my RDB. My opinion is that in higher tiers where players are almost all good or with a squad, if you have at least one Ancilot then you probably don't need a mid-range. In the lower tiers things are so random (especially if you get saddled with the useless sniper bros who want to camp on Powerplant with their Noricums) that I would say play whatever makes you the happiest because until you get out of the tiers with dumb players it seems you are a lot more a victim to chance than any real lack of anything (assuming you run reasonably competitive set-ups).
|
|
|
Post by elttaes on Mar 19, 2017 16:37:28 GMT -5
Trident/Pin Natasha has the same DPS as a TTFury, though it gives up 100m of range. If you aren't sure whether or not you'd like the Fury, try this cheaper version (or a Trident Carnage) first.
|
|
crave1ne
GI. Patton
Posts: 149
Karma: 56
Pilot name: crave1ne
Platform: Android
Clan: ŴIҜITT€ŇŞ [ധ¡к¡]
League: Gold
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Carnage
|
Post by crave1ne on Mar 24, 2017 8:04:13 GMT -5
The need for range in a hanger has changed over the last 18 months or so. At that time all-brawler was preferable in the higher tiers, ideally 4+ Rhinos. The relative mobility and health of that bot made running range tricky as it could often attack and catch the best bots. The game changed when other heavies including the Fury were given a large speed buff. Suddenly they were far less vulnerable and far more effective, which in turn meant we began to see far more of them. One plus range bot (two if you're Russian) soon became the standard. The game has recently changed again, and I believe we're on our way back down to just over half a range bot per person, with some (strong) players choosing to run none. The Ancile buff and resulting rise of the Ancilot is the main reason for this swing. Run in multiples they have the health to counter range themselves: by protecting brawler teammates they make rushing a Fury blockade viable again. I've had success testing all brawler lineups recently in Top in both solo and squad play (for example plasma Ancilot x2 / plasma Galahad x2 / plasma Gareth). I have two maxed Trident Fury and have run them both with success before. However in today's game I no longer run even one. Most often I'll run a Fury (or Carnage) Zeus. Currently there are still enough Fury out there that countering them is important. However I question how long that's going to be the case. Would a team be better off running 2x Treb Butch to hit enemy mid-range and the rest brawlers? If not today, then in a month perhaps as more teams run Ancilot and fewer Fury? I think the answer may be yes, which would mean there is a place to successfully run an all brawler lineup again. If you've got an Ancilot. After viewing many YT'ers, I wondered how they got away with all brawler hangars. then realized the videos were a year old. lol. I love knifers, my hangar has been just that this whole time, until recently. I have fallen in love with my Zeus Carnage. Its been great at being sneaky against fury's. And, its fallen several times against them as well. I have 2 Galahads, but have only been running one. I replaced one with a Rhino that i feel no longer has a place anymore in the game. Maybe its time to bring the other Galahad out again. What was the outcome of you using an all plasma hangar? For the most part thats what I have been running, and keeping a db griffin in the mix. I still have to pull out the griffin, and have switched my rhino over to a db as well. Just to go up against a lancelot. Forget it if they have an ancile, I have yet to take out a lancelot one on one with another plasma bot. However, flanking with a Galahad seems to work. With seeing more Lancelots, what is the survivability of an all plasma hangar?
|
|
|
Post by petevb on Mar 24, 2017 13:16:24 GMT -5
What was the outcome of you using an all plasma hangar? For the most part thats what I have been running, and keeping a db griffin in the mix. I still have to pull out the griffin, and have switched my rhino over to a db as well. Just to go up against a lancelot. Forget it if they have an ancile, I have yet to take out a lancelot one on one with another plasma bot. However, flanking with a Galahad seems to work. With seeing more Lancelots, what is the survivability of an all plasma hangar? The plasma Galahad is perhaps the strongest bot vs an Ancilot. Heads up it will win most engagements vs both Ancelot versions on more open maps, though it does take time to burn through the shield. Where it gets particularly effective is when you have multiple plasma bots together- if you're able to exploit the Lancelot's lack of mobility to get a 2 v 1 you'll drop the Lance quickly. Where the all plasma hanger has trouble is on tight maps like dead city or in the buildings on Shenzhen. Digging an entrenched splash bot out of a confined space really requires another splash bot, so I'll usually run a DB griffin or thunder/ ork lance for that purpose.
|
|
morel22
Destrier
Posts: 110
Karma: 29
|
Post by morel22 on Mar 24, 2017 15:03:04 GMT -5
Am fresh to the game so no experience to offer here but here are my two cents: There are two sides to this equation depending on what you're after.. 1. You wanna be an overall complete skilled player and compete with the best, or 2. you just wanna play the style you like and make the most of it.. For the former, one has to be skilled at everything. That is in all ranges, weapons categories and all maps.. For this to happen, one has to have a beacon capper, knife fighter, mid ranger and a long range sniper in the hangar. Fifth slot would be what you prefer to play the most. Mostly it's a knife fighter.. One could orient himself after the Legends hangars, but I don't think these 50 reflect the best skill and real spirit and diversity of the game.. For the latter, just grab five good knife fighters and move on.. At certain maps and at certain times you ought to struggle but having it easy all the time isnt fun either I am still collecting gold for the beacon capper, as I went for a Lancelot before a Gareth.. Currently running three knifers, a Griff, Lance and Rhino.. Russian midranger Griff and a sniper Natasha with Kangs and Gekkos.. I think I would drop the Rhino for a Gareth or galahad later..
|
|
morel22
Destrier
Posts: 110
Karma: 29
|
Post by morel22 on Mar 24, 2017 15:11:15 GMT -5
What was the outcome of you using an all plasma hangar? For the most part thats what I have been running, and keeping a db griffin in the mix. I still have to pull out the griffin, and have switched my rhino over to a db as well. Just to go up against a lancelot. Forget it if they have an ancile, I have yet to take out a lancelot one on one with another plasma bot. However, flanking with a Galahad seems to work. With seeing more Lancelots, what is the survivability of an all plasma hangar? The plasma Galahad is perhaps the strongest bot vs an Ancilot. Heads up it will win most engagements vs both Ancelot versions on more open maps, though it does take time to burn through the shield. Where it gets particularly effective is when you have multiple plasma bots together- if you're able to exploit the Lancelot's lack of mobility to get a 2 v 1 you'll drop the Lance quickly. How could one Plasma Galahad win against an Ork Ancient? Against a plasma Ancient yeah, it has the advantage.. But against an Orkan it will go down quickly..
|
|
|
Post by 『 Dᴇᴀᴛʜ 』 on Mar 24, 2017 15:24:17 GMT -5
The plasma Galahad is perhaps the strongest bot vs an Ancilot. Heads up it will win most engagements vs both Ancelot versions on more open maps, though it does take time to burn through the shield. Where it gets particularly effective is when you have multiple plasma bots together- if you're able to exploit the Lancelot's lack of mobility to get a 2 v 1 you'll drop the Lance quickly. How could one Plasma Galahad win against an Ork Ancient? Against a plasma Ancient yeah, it has the advantage.. But against an Orkan it will go down quickly.. Range and speed
|
|
|
Post by petevb on Mar 24, 2017 15:45:22 GMT -5
The plasma Galahad is perhaps the strongest bot vs an Ancilot. Heads up it will win most engagements vs both Ancelot versions on more open maps, though it does take time to burn through the shield. Where it gets particularly effective is when you have multiple plasma bots together- if you're able to exploit the Lancelot's lack of mobility to get a 2 v 1 you'll drop the Lance quickly. How could one Plasma Galahad win against an Ork Ancient? Against a plasma Ancient yeah, it has the advantage.. But against an Orkan it will go down quickly.. In the open it'll eat it alive. Stay outside ~200 and anticipate to backpedal when they fire. Make sure you've got clear space behind. In tight quarters they're a problem, but in space the Galahad has a significant advantage.
|
|
crave1ne
GI. Patton
Posts: 149
Karma: 56
Pilot name: crave1ne
Platform: Android
Clan: ŴIҜITT€ŇŞ [ധ¡к¡]
League: Gold
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Carnage
|
Post by crave1ne on Mar 24, 2017 15:55:33 GMT -5
What was the outcome of you using an all plasma hangar? For the most part thats what I have been running, and keeping a db griffin in the mix. I still have to pull out the griffin, and have switched my rhino over to a db as well. Just to go up against a lancelot. Forget it if they have an ancile, I have yet to take out a lancelot one on one with another plasma bot. However, flanking with a Galahad seems to work. With seeing more Lancelots, what is the survivability of an all plasma hangar? The plasma Galahad is perhaps the strongest bot vs an Ancilot. Heads up it will win most engagements vs both Ancelot versions on more open maps, though it does take time to burn through the shield. Where it gets particularly effective is when you have multiple plasma bots together- if you're able to exploit the Lancelot's lack of mobility to get a 2 v 1 you'll drop the Lance quickly. Where the all plasma hanger has trouble is on tight maps like dead city or in the buildings on Shenzhen. Digging an entrenched splash bot out of a confined space really requires another splash bot, so I'll usually run a DB griffin or thunder/ ork lance for that purpose. I've been using the Galahads since the lunar event. I purchased one, and then won another a week after purchasing. I was running both, one plasma, the other db. The plasma would last alot longer, but having rockets on a galahad is nice for going against other shielded bots. I have yet to take down a lance one on one. I'm hoping after leveling the weapons, and level the bot from an 8 to a 9, I'll have a better chance in certain situations...
|
|
|
Post by hurtbot on Mar 24, 2017 17:03:11 GMT -5
I just got done playing the canyon map with a guy who was running all light bots (Gareth,Gepard,3 Stalkers, Diamond League I, iOS) He seemed to do just fine with those against the mid range. It comes down to how you play. If you have a style of play you enjoy, don't feel pressured into a style that you don't.
|
|
morel22
Destrier
Posts: 110
Karma: 29
|
Post by morel22 on Mar 24, 2017 22:18:24 GMT -5
death petevbYou forgot about the Rush ability on the Lance. A skilled pilot would save it for such encounters. Difference of range is only 50 meters.. 100m if one would make sure that the Orks unload completely on the Galahad.. And if the galahad backs off the Rush ability will catch him and finish him off.. At least theoretically.. I have yet to experience this. I ran once into 2 Galahads and thought I would take them down. It was in Sxhenzen and at 100m.. ALL I managed to do is critically damage one galahad while the other got around me and finished me quickly. Now if I run into two of them I know to back off immediately.. Even with team support they will still target me and finish me off.. Unless on the one of the teammates also has a DB and we both coordinate to unload respectively on each galahad.. But with lack of communication this hard to manage.. Edit: OK I checked the speeds and both at level 12 with Rush the Lance has the exact speed of the galahad.. So it won't take that 50 meters off the galahad.. But it is tricky to maintain that 50 meters difference.. You need to be able to keep pedaling backwards for a long time.. Without seeing whats behind while the Lance will know what you're backing off into.. And even in open maps you'll more probably run off space and run into an obstacle or or a wall before taking down the Lance.. My guess..
|
|
|
Post by Deadalready on Mar 25, 2017 6:34:25 GMT -5
If you're thrown into a pool, you either learn to swim or drown. Don't over complicate a simple situation.
There are maps and situations where you need to adapt or be destroyed, three of the maps mid rangers/long rangers are dominant (Springfield, Canyon, Yamantau). An all knife fighting setup is nothing more than fodder unless you can help turn the tables by using your own mid rangers or long rangers.
To me is seems... strange that the counter to a Trident Fury is a 6500au Lancelot. Are we forgetting the price, the slow speed, the team you need to fight through to reach the Fury?
|
|