Hoo Flung Dung
Destrier
Posts: 71
Karma: 49
Pilot name: Hoo Flung Dung
Platform: Android
Clan: Ronin & Erstwhile Officer in Nitro Elite
League: Expert
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: RDB Griffin
|
Post by Hoo Flung Dung on Mar 12, 2017 10:46:01 GMT -5
To make individual games more competitive, why not create different reward criteria for each team - reward the losing team based on beacon caps not damage. Medal rewards for ranking remain the same, but give the top capper on the losing team 2 au and the second place 1 au. The losing team is no longer rewarded based on damage dealt. The winning team rewards do not change that is still based on damage with the top capper getting 5 au.
The objective (fundamentally) is to win, and from my experience total damage does not guarantee victory, nor total caps, but a mixture of both. Battles are largely dynamic, and everyone should be motivated in such a system, or similar system, to actually win the game. The losing team will now be more committed to try to provide more competition instead of sitting back, they may even win. Games will be more entertaining, may end quicker, and still provide an emphasis on the damage metric for Pixonic (which I believe is their cash cow).
Light mechs will still have a place, that 5th hangar spot becomes even more important, and both the players and Pixonic will benefit, without rocking the boat too much.
Just my observation and suggestion. Cheers!
Note: for me it's really about winning, nothing else matters.
|
|
|
Post by notyetnotsosoon on Mar 12, 2017 11:31:30 GMT -5
Short answer: Pix's coffers not filling fast enough, wants you to spend more.
|
|
ionflow
Destrier
Posts: 79
Karma: 47
Platform: Android
League: Silver
|
Post by ionflow on Mar 12, 2017 11:54:28 GMT -5
Short answer: Pix's coffers not filling fast enough, want you to spend more. P2W is not the only revenue model. They could make every weapon and bot available with Ag and wsp and reserve Au for cosmetics only.
|
|
|
Post by mijapi300 on Mar 12, 2017 12:02:29 GMT -5
Short answer: Pix's coffers not filling fast enough, want you to spend more. P2W is not the only revenue model. They could make every weapon and bot available with Ag and wsp and reserve Au for cosmetics only. That would work if the goal is to not make money. Unfortunately, when someone is running a business, the main goal is to turn as much of a profit as possible. Doing so in this type of game requires creating a balance where spending is rewarded, but not required. Pixonic does this extremey well, better than any other game I've seen.
|
|
|
Post by notyetnotsosoon on Mar 12, 2017 12:13:00 GMT -5
ionflow - Which they also have for ridiculously expensive Skins
|
|
|
Post by mechtout on Mar 12, 2017 12:13:02 GMT -5
if the competition was always even i think the games will be more competitive. but I always notice that once blues catch whiff of the reds being OP, they all kick back and go for most damage to make top 2 in the loss and not lose any trophies.
|
|
|
Post by Ⅎ₹ѺC₭₩ELDEℲ₹ on Mar 12, 2017 12:44:15 GMT -5
if the competition was always even i think the games will be more competitive. but I always notice that once blues catch whiff of the reds being OP, they all kick back and go for most damage to make top 2 in the loss and not lose any trophies. ...or in less words they go defensive. Its a natural response to stronger opponents. And as for the players only seeking max damage...Max damage and beacons need to be done for a win. The more of both the better...Maximum damage is in no way a bad thing. You seem to think that once the point in a game comes when the other team has dominance that teammates trying to do max damage hurts the effort?? I have seen enough games lost on the bar only to be won on the mechout thanks to max damage.
|
|
|
Post by mechtout on Mar 12, 2017 13:41:27 GMT -5
if the competition was always even i think the games will be more competitive. but I always notice that once blues catch whiff of the reds being OP, they all kick back and go for most damage to make top 2 in the loss and not lose any trophies. ...or in less words they go defensive. Its a natural response to stronger opponents. And as for the players only seeking max damage...Max damage and beacons need to be done for a win. The more of both the better...Maximum damage is in no way a bad thing. You seem to think that once the point in a game comes when the other team has dominance that teammates trying to do max damage hurts the effort?? I have seen enough games lost on the bar only to be won on the mechout thanks to max damage. trust me, its much worse than that. players not even looking at the beacons and basically huddling in one area, staying in their long range and only breaking out the ancilot when the long range gets taken out. if you dont fight out of that you're gonna get flanked
|
|
ionflow
Destrier
Posts: 79
Karma: 47
Platform: Android
League: Silver
|
Post by ionflow on Mar 12, 2017 14:13:46 GMT -5
P2W is not the only revenue model. They could make every weapon and bot available with Ag and wsp and reserve Au for cosmetics only. That would work if the goal is to not make money. Unfortunately, when someone is running a business, the main goal is to turn as much of a profit as possible. Doing so in this type of game requires creating a balance where spending is rewarded, but not required. Pixonic does this extremey well, better than any other game I've seen. Perhaps you missed this part: "P2W is not the only revenue model" There are games making more money than Pix could ever dream of that have zero performance enhancing items for sale. Ever hear of League of Legends? Google it some time.
|
|
|
Post by mijapi300 on Mar 12, 2017 16:00:29 GMT -5
That would work if the goal is to not make money. Unfortunately, when someone is running a business, the main goal is to turn as much of a profit as possible. Doing so in this type of game requires creating a balance where spending is rewarded, but not required. Pixonic does this extremey well, better than any other game I've seen. Perhaps you missed this part: "P2W is not the only revenue model" There are games making more money than Pix could ever dream of that have zero performance enhancing items for sale. Ever hear of League of Legends? Google it some time. Yes, and when I'm going to open up a convenience store, I'm going to follow the business model of Walmart. Because we're both in the same exact market, right?
|
|
|
Post by sonofsam on Mar 12, 2017 17:28:12 GMT -5
If you want to make the game more competitive all you have to do is change the distribution of league points. I ran 4 games earlier and won 2. All games I had around 350-375k damage (top was around 500-550k) and got 4 beacons one game, 3 beacons in 2, and 2 in the other. I did my part to help the team. The rest of my team and most of the reds just stayed firing at range most of the match. Why? Because in 4 matches playing to win I lost a net of 24 league points. Everybody is more concerned about being the bottom 3 on the losing team and losing 10-20 league points then they are concerned about getting beacons and winning matches. If you make it so that the bottom preformer on damage doesn't get 「grape」 on league points, people wouldn't be as afraid to lose a few damage points so that they can cap a beacon and help the team actually win.
Edit: this would also have the side effect of making it harder for people who just stand there to drop league points for taking purposes.
|
|
|
Post by Ⅎ₹ѺC₭₩ELDEℲ₹ on Mar 12, 2017 17:30:37 GMT -5
What can be any more motivating than -20 straight in the nads.
|
|
Hoo Flung Dung
Destrier
Posts: 71
Karma: 49
Pilot name: Hoo Flung Dung
Platform: Android
Clan: Ronin & Erstwhile Officer in Nitro Elite
League: Expert
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: RDB Griffin
|
Post by Hoo Flung Dung on Mar 12, 2017 22:52:44 GMT -5
If you want to make the game more competitive all you have to do is change the distribution of league points. I ran 4 games earlier and won 2. All games I had around 350-375k damage (top was around 500-550k) and got 4 beacons one game, 3 beacons in 2, and 2 in the other. I did my part to help the team. The rest of my team and most of the reds just stayed firing at range most of the match. Why? Because in 4 matches playing to win I lost a net of 24 league points. Everybody is more concerned about being the bottom 3 on the losing team and losing 10-20 league points then they are concerned about getting beacons and winning matches. If you make it so that the bottom preformer on damage doesn't get 「grape」 on league points, people wouldn't be as afraid to lose a few damage points so that they can cap a beacon and help the team actually win. Edit: this would also have the side effect of making it harder for people who just stand there to drop league points for taking purposes. Fundamentally, this idea isn't too different than mine (OP), a combination might work and reduce the number of people tanking. Lower the league points penalty, but still have the losing team placement be determined by caps not damage. At about the 4 minute mark of a match any player should realize they are on a losing team (if that's the case); well they have even greater incentive to cap beacons, because they know their end-game placement will most likely be determined by caps not damage. Take some beacons and they might surprise themselves, and if they do win their placement is then determined by damage. My original arbitrary au reward for the top losers was just what would motivate me to cap more on a losing team. If it doesn't motivate anyone else then find something that does, because in my opinion capping is just as important as damage in a good competitive game. I just hate seeing losing blues just go for damage, and you have to grind out the long defeat with them because no one is trying.
|
|
|
Post by zer00eyz on Mar 12, 2017 23:07:49 GMT -5
To make individual games more competitive, why not create different reward criteria for each team - reward the losing team based on beacon caps not damage. Medal rewards for ranking remain the same, but give the top capper on the losing team 2 au and the second place 1 au. The losing team is no longer rewarded based on damage dealt. The winning team rewards do not change that is still based on damage with the top capper getting 5 au. The objective (fundamentally) is to win, and from my experience total damage does not guarantee victory, nor total caps, but a mixture of both. Battles are largely dynamic, and everyone should be motivated in such a system, or similar system, to actually win the game. The losing team will now be more committed to try to provide more competition instead of sitting back, they may even win. Games will be more entertaining, may end quicker, and still provide an emphasis on the damage metric for Pixonic (which I believe is their cash cow). Light mechs will still have a place, that 5th hangar spot becomes even more important, and both the players and Pixonic will benefit, without rocking the boat too much. Just my observation and suggestion. Cheers! Note: for me it's really about winning, nothing else matters. The old system for Au distribution in the old match maker was great. It encouraged damage, and beacons. The new league system is designed to encourage damage. The adjustment needs to be 1au for all members of the winning team, +5au for winning beacon grader. +1 to +5 league points for the losing beacon capper. Why league points? For the longest time I thought that it was a bad idea and that gold was enough of an incentive, however because it is a closed system (top players have to get points from noobs and those points have to make their way through the system) injecting points into the middle of it might make sense. It would also be a start to remove a chunk of the incentive for tanking and clubbing.
|
|
|
Post by frunobulax on Mar 13, 2017 8:59:09 GMT -5
To make individual games more competitive, why not create different reward criteria for each team - reward the losing team based on beacon caps not damage. Medal rewards for ranking remain the same, but give the top capper on the losing team 2 au and the second place 1 au. The losing team is no longer rewarded based on damage dealt. The winning team rewards do not change that is still based on damage with the top capper getting 5 au. Won't change that there is a strong incentive to tank: You get easier matches if you finish with -20 points. The matchmaking is the problem here, in that it gives value to losing. This has to change. (Which I will write here seemingly 10 times a day for a long time.)
|
|
|
Post by frunobulax on Mar 13, 2017 9:03:01 GMT -5
The adjustment needs to be 1au for all members of the winning team, +5au for winning beacon grader. +1 to +5 league points for the losing beacon capper. Why league points? For the longest time I thought that it was a bad idea and that gold was enough of an incentive, however because it is a closed system (top players have to get points from noobs and those points have to make their way through the system) injecting points into the middle of it might make sense. It would also be a start to remove a chunk of the incentive for tanking and clubbing. Oh great, now I get an even bigger penalty for trying to turn a lost game. If you're already above your fair league rating, any more league points you earn push you towards a higher league, where you'll be even more outmatched. LEAGUE POINTS ARE A PENALTY, NOT REWARDS. THERE IS NOTHING IN THERE FOR YOU IN TRYING TO CLIMB A LEAGUE. The puny gold reward for advancing a league is more than compensated for less gold earned in league play and less damage. Plus the joy of being matched against players 4 levels above you. And by definition, it would make tanking even easier, as tankers won't try to grab beacons.
|
|
|
Post by zer00eyz on Mar 13, 2017 9:35:08 GMT -5
The adjustment needs to be 1au for all members of the winning team, +5au for winning beacon grader. +1 to +5 league points for the losing beacon capper. Why league points? For the longest time I thought that it was a bad idea and that gold was enough of an incentive, however because it is a closed system (top players have to get points from noobs and those points have to make their way through the system) injecting points into the middle of it might make sense. It would also be a start to remove a chunk of the incentive for tanking and clubbing. Oh great, now I get an even bigger penalty for trying to turn a lost game. If you're already above your fair league rating, any more league points you earn push you towards a higher league, where you'll be even more outmatched. LEAGUE POINTS ARE A PENALTY, NOT REWARDS. THERE IS NOTHING IN THERE FOR YOU IN TRYING TO CLIMB A LEAGUE. The puny gold reward for advancing a league is more than compensated for less gold earned in league play and less damage. Plus the joy of being matched against players 4 levels above you. And by definition, it would make tanking even easier, as tankers won't try to grab beacons. "Oh great, now I get an even bigger penalty for trying to turn a lost game. If you're already above your fair league rating, any more league points you earn push you towards a higher league, where you'll be even more outmatched." I thought this too for a long while. However we already have this problem, I am sure you have a had matches where you get opponents or teammates from a league up or down from yours. The issue is that for you to get the points to move up the have to come into the system all the way FROM THE BOTTOM. This is an issue with ELO (what leagues are like) and even it has to inject points every now and again. Right now this motion of points is somewhat random (MM might know very well what it is doing with these matches) but it already happens, at least this way it is transparent. As for clubbing incentive for leagues is pretty large, but it is distributed "up front" rather than on the daily. Apirl first will pay you out for your league, but you won't see league gold again till May. This means you can collect your league level gold all on april 1, tank down and stay down till the end of may and THEN battle your way back up. With the above changes to how gold is distributed (all winners get gold equal rather than an outsized portion to the top) and league gold daily rather than "up front" you would see people invented to STAY in their league as the payouts are more balanced.
|
|
|
Post by notyetnotsosoon on Mar 17, 2017 4:53:27 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by IStandAlone on Mar 17, 2017 14:28:15 GMT -5
That's a good start, now they just need to knock down the Silver and gold payout as well.
|
|