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Post by frunobulax on Mar 11, 2017 3:42:22 GMT -5
The Patton is still a liability. Molots are very situational if you are able to keep 700m distance and hard to play. Using a Taran/Mag Griffin with Molots or Punishers as placeholders for future Mag/Taran and using Tulums on the Cossack would be better. If you want to stick to the Patton, an all-Pinata loadout is the best configuration at your level.
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Post by Why? on Mar 11, 2017 5:09:32 GMT -5
The Patton is still a liability. Molots are very situational if you are able to keep 700m distance and hard to play. Using a Taran/Mag Griffin with Molots or Punishers as placeholders for future Mag/Taran and using Tulums on the Cossack would be better. If you want to stick to the Patton, an all-Pinata loadout is the best configuration at your level. That's partially 'cause I didn't wanna junk my Patton within 4-5 days of getting it. I've played for just a tad less than two weeks so still attached o my bots.
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Post by Titan Song on Mar 11, 2017 16:12:53 GMT -5
The Patton is still a liability. Molots are very situational if you are able to keep 700m distance and hard to play. Using a Taran/Mag Griffin with Molots or Punishers as placeholders for future Mag/Taran and using Tulums on the Cossack would be better. If you want to stick to the Patton, an all-Pinata loadout is the best configuration at your level. That's partially 'cause I didn't wanna junk my Patton within 4-5 days of getting it. I've played for just a tad less than two weeks so still attached o my bots. The Molett Patton is useful, he can take out RDB Griffins, DB griffins, PDB griffins, and some other mid range support bots. You have to prioritize your targets a bit, and stay above 500 meter range. If you start to get charged, backpeddle into a group of blues. The Colette will be getting a fire rate buff soon, so will be even better. Your priorities should be PBD Griffin to replace that Coz. Then save gold for your 5th slot while leveling up your weapons. Focuse on the Griffin weapons first. Then the Leo weapons. You want them at least to lvl8 before you start leveling the bot levels. You will see your damage to up by a huge chunk when you get that 2nd Griffin with PBD.
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Post by frunobulax on Mar 11, 2017 16:35:44 GMT -5
That's not the typical opposition in the OPs league. Go to Pinatas, they are a very moderate investment and a Pinata Patton is fun to play.
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Post by Titan Song on Mar 11, 2017 17:06:02 GMT -5
The OP is running a RDB Griffin, so they must be around in his league. Even if they are not densely populated those mid range bots can lock down half the field. The molets are a counter for that even in gold league, but they are also useful in OP league play. It is just not as high of a priority as the 2nd Griffin, and the 5th slot. Pins would be useful to, if he were facing more shield bots. The Leo seems to have that mess covered though.
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Post by Why? on Mar 11, 2017 23:27:17 GMT -5
That's not the typical opposition in the OPs league. Go to Pinatas, they are a very moderate investment and a Pinata Patton is fun to play. The OP is running a RDB Griffin, so they must be around in his league. Even if they are not densely populated those mid range bots can lock down half the field. The molets are a counter for that even in gold league, but they are also useful in OP league play. It is just not as high of a priority as the 2nd Griffin, and the 5th slot. Pins would be useful to, if he were facing more shield bots. The Leo seems to have that mess covered though. Griffs are everywhere in my league. RDB, PDB and the occasional DB along with all sorts of funky Plasma/Missile hybrid Griff. There are almost 7-8 griffs every match. both sides combined. Th.ese things are a pain in Close-Quarter Combat maps like Powerplant, Shenzen, Dead City In fact, I am not sure but should I be seeing Fujins in matches? Gareths, Stalkers, are commonplace; the occasional Rhino, Raijin or even Lancelots are also not uncommon. Things are armed with 「gosh darn 」 Trebs and Tridents. Should I be seeing all those in my league? I hover between recruit and private leagues. Not only that, these DPS warriors NEVER go after beacons. 50% of matches I've lost are because they would just go after DPS. One reason I didn't wanna bench my Cossack is that it can run some late beacons since no one else does! We'll be lucky if there is one Gareth running beacons at start..
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Spectre951
Destrier
I killed a lancelot/rhino with my thunder carny... again >_>
Posts: 69
Karma: 19
Pilot name: Spectre951
Platform: iOS
Clan: Archetype 3
League: Gold
Favorite robot: Galahad/Carny
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Post by Spectre951 on Mar 11, 2017 23:52:53 GMT -5
hmmm Should be my own probelm since i cant see ur hangar or ur screenshot: mind if u tell me ur current hangar and ur league? But as a general rule based on what i saw in these posts, try getting a pinata patton. Just be sure to know ur covers. You can do serious damage with it (can blow up a hole on enemy health bar ) or u can try get a molot griffin as a suppressor support bot to keep those other meta build griffins away from u for a while. Cossack is a good beacon capper but with splash and plasma everywhere there is nowhere to hide for a fragile bot like cossack. Save for a galahad. u wont regret that
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Post by Why? on Mar 12, 2017 0:13:14 GMT -5
hmmm Should be my own probelm since i cant see ur hangar or ur screenshot: mind if u tell me ur current hangar and ur league? But as a general rule based on what i saw in these posts, try getting a pinata patton. Just be sure to know ur covers. You can do serious damage with it (can blow up a hole on enemy health bar ) or u can try get a molot griffin as a suppressor support bot to keep those other meta build griffins away from u for a while. Cossack is a good beacon capper but with splash and plasma everywhere there is nowhere to hide for a fragile bot like cossack. Save for a galahad. u wont regret that Bots(lvl)- Weps(lvl) Leo(6)- 3xPinata(5)+Thunder(5) Griffin(6)-2xTulus(5)+2xPin(5) Patton(2)- 4xMolot(2xlv4, 2xlv3) Cossack(3)- Taran(4) League- Private(820 trophies)
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Spectre951
Destrier
I killed a lancelot/rhino with my thunder carny... again >_>
Posts: 69
Karma: 19
Pilot name: Spectre951
Platform: iOS
Clan: Archetype 3
League: Gold
Favorite robot: Galahad/Carny
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Post by Spectre951 on Mar 12, 2017 0:27:38 GMT -5
do u have a boa? swap out that cossack and put a boa with taran and thunder on it. The boa is a very durable bot (lvl 5 boa health > lvl 6 griffin... and boa is faster) the boa is a very decent bot for early stage beacon capping with its speed. Try upgrade ur patton to level 5 for more survivability. rdb griffin is a good setup and a bargain and leos are fine at ur level. Try upgrade the thunders as 1 level matters a lot. the damage will increase significantly per level increase. save for magnums and tarans and get a plasma griffin dont rush. Take your time and enjoy the game.
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Post by sochilli (Saltesers) on Mar 12, 2017 0:31:53 GMT -5
hmmm Should be my own probelm since i cant see ur hangar or ur screenshot: mind if u tell me ur current hangar and ur league? But as a general rule based on what i saw in these posts, try getting a pinata patton. Just be sure to know ur covers. You can do serious damage with it (can blow up a hole on enemy health bar ) or u can try get a molot griffin as a suppressor support bot to keep those other meta build griffins away from u for a while. Cossack is a good beacon capper but with splash and plasma everywhere there is nowhere to hide for a fragile bot like cossack. Save for a galahad. u wont regret that Bots(lvl)- Weps(lvl) Leo(6)- 3xPinata(5)+Thunder(5) Griffin(6)-2xTulus(5)+2xPin(5) Patton(2)- 4xMolot(2xlv4, 2xlv3) Cossack(3)- Taran(4) League- Private(820 trophies) Just as a writing tip, the shorthand for your hangar is: 6/5 Piñata Thunder Leo 6/5 RDB Griffin 2/3.5 Molot Patton 3/4 Taran Cossack Cossacks shine when they hit level 8. Now that the old hangar based matchmaker is out the door, just upgrade your cossack's bot level straight to 8. At 8, its base speed is fast enough to backpedal away from rockets, but at any level Cossacks can jump backwards fast enough to dodge all rockets anyway. btw if anyone above said to drop the Cossack at the level you're at right now, just discredit everything they say. Cossacks are crucial until you hit Gold I~II, and even after that they're still a huge help to a team. Cossacks are THE BIGGEST early-game threat to the red team when piloted right. Excluding on Canyon and Yamantau, Cossacks should be able to beat any bot except a Gareth to a cap and corner. ALWAYS lead with a Cossack. Your hangar looks like you play Flanker (like what I play sometimes), so your job is to hit your team's side beacon first. After you cap your first beacon, look for a left-side corner to post up on. Wait for a few seconds, and if it's obvious the other team isn't pressuring the centre beacon, go for it yourself, otherwise go target the enemy's side beacon (aka remote beacon). Never engage the enemy in the open. As a rule of thumb, never go out into the open in a Cossack. Always be hopping from corner to corner, only ever exposing your weapon. If you get hit by a Trident, good for them. That's they only way they're gonna damage you, and you can be sure that the trident hit didn't go hit one of your team's shield bots. Having a Cossack in your hangar is one of the best things you could do for your team, and yourself. Cossacks get beacons, and beacons get wins. Winning guarantees you positive trophies and is the difference between 0 and 10 Au. Keep Sacking.
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Post by SuperHero on Mar 12, 2017 0:42:55 GMT -5
^^ Don't believe a word he says!!!
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Post by Why? on Mar 12, 2017 0:50:20 GMT -5
Bots(lvl)- Weps(lvl) Leo(6)- 3xPinata(5)+Thunder(5) Griffin(6)-2xTulus(5)+2xPin(5) Patton(2)- 4xMolot(2xlv4, 2xlv3) Cossack(3)- Taran(4) League- Private(820 trophies) Just as a writing tip, the shorthand for your hangar is: 6/5 Piñata Thunder Leo 6/5 RDB Griffin 2/3.5 Molot Patton 3/4 Taran Cossack Cossacks shine when they hit level 8. Now that the old hangar based matchmaker is out the door, just upgrade your cossack's bot level straight to 8. At 8, its base speed is fast enough to backpedal away from rockets, but at any level Cossacks can jump backwards fast enough to dodge all rockets anyway. btw if anyone above said to drop the Cossack at the level you're at right now, just discredit everything they say. Cossacks are crucial until you hit Gold I~II, and even after that they're still a huge help to a team. Cossacks are THE BIGGEST early-game threat to the red team when piloted right. Excluding on Canyon and Yamantau, Cossacks should be able to beat any bot except a Gareth to a cap and corner. ALWAYS lead with a Cossack. Your hangar looks like you play Flanker (like what I play sometimes), so your job is to hit your team's side beacon first. After you cap your first beacon, look for a left-side corner to post up on. Wait for a few seconds, and if it's obvious the other team isn't pressuring the centre beacon, go for it yourself, otherwise go target the enemy's side beacon (aka remote beacon). Never engage the enemy in the open. As a rule of thumb, never go out into the open in a Cossack. Always be hopping from corner to corner, only ever exposing your weapon. If you get hit by a Trident, good for them. That's they only way they're gonna damage you, and you can be sure that the trident hit didn't go hit one of your team's shield bots. Having a Cossack in your hangar is one of the best things you could do for your team, and yourself. Cossacks get beacons, and beacons get wins. Winning guarantees you positive trophies and is the difference between 0 and 10 Au. Keep Sacking. Thanks for the writing tip! By flanking you mean going by the sides of a map and hitting enemies, right? If that so, there is a savage, almost obscene pleasure with flanking with your Leo and hitting the enemy spawn base or when skewer them from behind while they are pinned down exchanging fire at front lol. The problem with the Cossack thing is that matched are very unbalanced. Team gets wiped out in half the time, or makes such advance that after my Cossack is dropped, it's a pain to catch up with teammates. Moreover, if I didn't use all the heavies, I get way less Ag due to dmg stat stuff..and match being short, I can't use all bots in almost all the matches. Maybe if I had a decent clan, it'd be okay?
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Spectre951
Destrier
I killed a lancelot/rhino with my thunder carny... again >_>
Posts: 69
Karma: 19
Pilot name: Spectre951
Platform: iOS
Clan: Archetype 3
League: Gold
Favorite robot: Galahad/Carny
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Post by Spectre951 on Mar 12, 2017 1:43:07 GMT -5
Well if u really wanna stick with ur cossack, its possible, but u have to move at all times, even more than a gary, utilising different environment and cover or even enemy or friendly bots to be good. I once met a very good cossack pilot (Gold league 1 >.>) He danced around this afk raijin with bastion mode on and took me a good 20 seconds to bring him down. Another cossack on powerplant (my ally) used cover to his advantage. He end up capping 8 beacons on the whole match and we won despite the red team got lancelots spawning. But it takes time to practice and know the map well but it is in fact a good beacon capper. I would consider it the most demanding beacon capper to get the most outta it.
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Post by sochilli (Saltesers) on Mar 12, 2017 2:34:19 GMT -5
Well if u really wanna stick with ur cossack, its possible, but u have to move at all times, even more than a gary, utilising different environment and cover or even enemy or friendly bots to be good. I once met a very good cossack pilot (Gold league 1 >.>) He danced around this afk raijin with bastion mode on and took me a good 20 seconds to bring him down. Another cossack on powerplant (my ally) used cover to his advantage. He end up capping 8 beacons on the whole match and we won despite the red team got lancelots spawning. But it takes time to practice and know the map well but it is in fact a good beacon capper. I would consider it the most demanding beacon capper to get the most outta it. I have to disagree with you on this. I only don't run a Cossack when I have missions for heavy or medium bots, else I always run a Cossack. And I know for a fact that good Cossack pilots spend a decent amount of time stationary at corners. Cossacks that don't stop hopping are clearly beginners. I notice that you said your ally used cover to his advantage; did you mean that Cossack was cornering? This is what I mean by a good Cossack pilot. Cossacks needn't be out in the open at all, and should never be in a knife-fighters line of fire. But I do agree that the Cossack is quite demanding as a capper.
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Post by sochilli (Saltesers) on Mar 12, 2017 2:39:24 GMT -5
Just as a writing tip, the shorthand for your hangar is: 6/5 Piñata Thunder Leo 6/5 RDB Griffin 2/3.5 Molot Patton 3/4 Taran Cossack Cossacks shine when they hit level 8. Now that the old hangar based matchmaker is out the door, just upgrade your cossack's bot level straight to 8. At 8, its base speed is fast enough to backpedal away from rockets, but at any level Cossacks can jump backwards fast enough to dodge all rockets anyway. btw if anyone above said to drop the Cossack at the level you're at right now, just discredit everything they say. Cossacks are crucial until you hit Gold I~II, and even after that they're still a huge help to a team. Cossacks are THE BIGGEST early-game threat to the red team when piloted right. Excluding on Canyon and Yamantau, Cossacks should be able to beat any bot except a Gareth to a cap and corner. ALWAYS lead with a Cossack. Your hangar looks like you play Flanker (like what I play sometimes), so your job is to hit your team's side beacon first. After you cap your first beacon, look for a left-side corner to post up on. Wait for a few seconds, and if it's obvious the other team isn't pressuring the centre beacon, go for it yourself, otherwise go target the enemy's side beacon (aka remote beacon). Never engage the enemy in the open. As a rule of thumb, never go out into the open in a Cossack. Always be hopping from corner to corner, only ever exposing your weapon. If you get hit by a Trident, good for them. That's they only way they're gonna damage you, and you can be sure that the trident hit didn't go hit one of your team's shield bots. Having a Cossack in your hangar is one of the best things you could do for your team, and yourself. Cossacks get beacons, and beacons get wins. Winning guarantees you positive trophies and is the difference between 0 and 10 Au. Keep Sacking. Thanks for the writing tip! By flanking you mean going by the sides of a map and hitting enemies, right? If that so, there is a savage, almost obscene pleasure with flanking with your Leo and hitting the enemy spawn base or when skewer them from behind while they are pinned down exchanging fire at front lol. The problem with the Cossack thing is that matched are very unbalanced. Team gets wiped out in half the time, or makes such advance that after my Cossack is dropped, it's a pain to catch up with teammates. Moreover, if I didn't use all the heavies, I get way less Ag due to dmg stat stuff..and match being short, I can't use all bots in almost all the matches. Maybe if I had a decent clan, it'd be okay? Yep. Flankers are 'flankers' for two reasons. In terms of map manoeuvring, they spend most of their time at the flank. But also, they directly flank shield bots by being square onto the shield, as a result of being at the side. Like an oddly formed hammer-and-anvil formation, with them being the hammer... actually that's a terrible analogy. But you know what I mean. If you're not using all your brawlers, you're not risking it for the biscuit enough. It's okay to take hits with a brawler, as long as you give more than you take. This does not apply for the Cossack, don't take hits at all XD. As far as clans go, the wiki family is a great place to start when adapting to higher level gameplay. I forget who the officers are of WikEd, but they're the Android wiki learners' clan. I believe they have a thread on this forum, you can go hit them up there and say salt sent you.
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Post by hyderier on Mar 12, 2017 3:48:36 GMT -5
Keep the Magnum, but not in your active hangar. If you remove the Mag from a Leo and put in a Pinata, you are using a build that even I sometimes use. Thunder has no reload time and fires 9 shots in 9 seconds until the fire rate is halved. The Thunder is effective in <250, which is about the same as beacons. If you remove the Cossack, the Vityaz will be your beacon capper. Bit slower, but you will find out soon that you cannot cap a beacon with an enemy red standing next to it with a light bot. You should put Tarans on a Boa first, then the Griffin. Note that this is level 5 Pinatas we're talking about here. It's not quite "death button" destuction potential yet! It's actually quite pitiful, and recipe for quick death, because a DB build depends on having enough burst damage, which lvl 5 Pinata doesn't quite have.
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Spectre951
Destrier
I killed a lancelot/rhino with my thunder carny... again >_>
Posts: 69
Karma: 19
Pilot name: Spectre951
Platform: iOS
Clan: Archetype 3
League: Gold
Favorite robot: Galahad/Carny
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Post by Spectre951 on Mar 12, 2017 3:52:49 GMT -5
Well if u really wanna stick with ur cossack, its possible, but u have to move at all times, even more than a gary, utilising different environment and cover or even enemy or friendly bots to be good. I once met a very good cossack pilot (Gold league 1 >.>) He danced around this afk raijin with bastion mode on and took me a good 20 seconds to bring him down. Another cossack on powerplant (my ally) used cover to his advantage. He end up capping 8 beacons on the whole match and we won despite the red team got lancelots spawning. But it takes time to practice and know the map well but it is in fact a good beacon capper. I would consider it the most demanding beacon capper to get the most outta it. I have to disagree with you on this. I only don't run a Cossack when I have missions for heavy or medium bots, else I always run a Cossack. And I know for a fact that good Cossack pilots spend a decent amount of time stationary at corners. Cossacks that don't stop hopping are clearly beginners. I notice that you said your ally used cover to his advantage; did you mean that Cossack was cornering? This is what I mean by a good Cossack pilot. Cossacks needn't be out in the open at all, and should never be in a knife-fighters line of fire. But I do agree that the Cossack is quite demanding as a capper. When i mean cossacks need to keep moving doesnt mean they keep hopping. yes those who hop constantly are more likely to get attention but staying in corners is no good either. Sooner or later some bot will notice u and advance towards u. And judging the amount of splash weapons around being stationary is basically giving free lunch for the red team. I believe that u need to run around using cover. But yes i agree with other parts of ur statement
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Post by hyderier on Mar 12, 2017 4:09:49 GMT -5
So you want damage?
Thunder for heavy weapon, Taran for medium (dual Punisher placeholder until you get Taran, they have about same useful range), Magnum for light (again Punisher as placeholder). Don't be afraid to upgrade two of each Punishers a bit more while waiting to get the plasma weapons).
Griffin is currently a very good bot which is useful all the way to the top, so you may want two of them, or upgrade one for extra speed and HP.
You may upgrade two Pinatas, which you can later use on DB Griffin (when you have 2 Orkans to pair them with), and at this time put them in Thunder Leo or even Vityaz. Or have poor man's DB Patton, with 4 Pinatas, of which you upgrade just two. If you get even just 2 or 3 salvoes off of it, it should do good for your damage total.
The 500 m rockets have low damage potential (for equal skill). Missiles and sniper weapons are even worse. So if you want to do damage and not just be support, leave them for your 5th bot slot.
An upgraded Molot Patton or Griffin might be ok, as Molot has wider competitive range than anything else (I mean, range where it does useful damage but is not totally outclassed by something else), but upgrading 4 Molots to effective level is going to take some time, so I'd say no to that until 5th slot, unless you really like it.
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Post by Why? on Mar 12, 2017 4:41:11 GMT -5
So you want damage? Thunder for heavy weapon, Taran for medium (dual Punisher placeholder until you get Taran, they have about same useful range), Magnum for light (again Punisher as placeholder). Don't be afraid to upgrade two of each Punishers a bit more while waiting to get the plasma weapons). Griffin is currently a very good bot which is useful all the way to the top, so you may want two of them, or upgrade one for extra speed and HP. You may upgrade two Pinatas, which you can later use on DB Griffin (when you have 2 Orkans to pair them with), and at this time put them in Thunder Leo or even Vityaz. Or have poor man's DB Patton, with 4 Pinatas, of which you upgrade just two. If you get even just 2 or 3 salvoes off of it, it should do good for your damage total. The 500 m rockets have low damage potential (for equal skill). Missiles and sniper weapons are even worse. So if you want to do damage and not just be support, leave them for your 5th bot slot. An upgraded Molot Patton or Griffin might be ok, as Molot has wider competitive range than anything else (I mean, range where it does useful damage but is not totally outclassed by something else), but upgrading 4 Molots to effective level is going to take some time, so I'd say no to that until 5th slot, unless you really like it. So what level are Molots and Punishers effective? and Pinatas? Also if 500m rockets don't have damage potentials...what are RDB even used for?
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Spectre951
Destrier
I killed a lancelot/rhino with my thunder carny... again >_>
Posts: 69
Karma: 19
Pilot name: Spectre951
Platform: iOS
Clan: Archetype 3
League: Gold
Favorite robot: Galahad/Carny
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Post by Spectre951 on Mar 12, 2017 4:44:41 GMT -5
For the range: U can hit DB and PDB bots out of their range with RDB. It is mainly as a support bot tho so if damage is ur go then its not ur most suitable choice
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Post by Why? on Mar 12, 2017 4:48:18 GMT -5
For the range: U can hit DB and PDB bots out of their range with RDB. It is mainly as a support bot tho so if damage is ur go then its not ur most suitable choice Okay, and the effective upgrade levels for the Pinata, Molots and Punishers are?
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Spectre951
Destrier
I killed a lancelot/rhino with my thunder carny... again >_>
Posts: 69
Karma: 19
Pilot name: Spectre951
Platform: iOS
Clan: Archetype 3
League: Gold
Favorite robot: Galahad/Carny
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Post by Spectre951 on Mar 12, 2017 4:49:57 GMT -5
Probably above lvl 7 or 8 for pinata, for molots and punishers are 9 or above iirc
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Post by hyderier on Mar 12, 2017 5:16:53 GMT -5
So you want damage? Thunder for heavy weapon, Taran for medium (dual Punisher placeholder until you get Taran, they have about same useful range), Magnum for light (again Punisher as placeholder). Don't be afraid to upgrade two of each Punishers a bit more while waiting to get the plasma weapons). Griffin is currently a very good bot which is useful all the way to the top, so you may want two of them, or upgrade one for extra speed and HP. You may upgrade two Pinatas, which you can later use on DB Griffin (when you have 2 Orkans to pair them with), and at this time put them in Thunder Leo or even Vityaz. Or have poor man's DB Patton, with 4 Pinatas, of which you upgrade just two. If you get even just 2 or 3 salvoes off of it, it should do good for your damage total. The 500 m rockets have low damage potential (for equal skill). Missiles and sniper weapons are even worse. So if you want to do damage and not just be support, leave them for your 5th bot slot. An upgraded Molot Patton or Griffin might be ok, as Molot has wider competitive range than anything else (I mean, range where it does useful damage but is not totally outclassed by something else), but upgrading 4 Molots to effective level is going to take some time, so I'd say no to that until 5th slot, unless you really like it. So what level are Molots and Punishers effective? and Pinatas? Also if 500m rockets don't have damage potentials...what are RDB even used for? I'd say lvl 6 Molots for ranges 350...600 do very competitive damage. For 350...500 they are great. 600..800, just beyond midrange they're mostly good for harassing reds, which is useful when damage bottomline isn't the 1st priority. Under 350m they are badly outclassed by plasma, but otherwise still decent damage until getting into Thunder's effective range. Punishers are currently just placeholders for plasma. Upgrading them to more than lvl 5 is dubious use of upgrade time and silver, IMO. Pinatas need enough damage to cripple the opponent in one salvo, especially without Orkans, unless mounted on fast (light) bot which can hope to hide between salvos. Not sure what level, but the base lvl 5 has never felt enough to me. RDB is good against plasma-equipped shield bots, at levels around 9/9. It's also somewhat useful against TT Fury, especially with Griffin jump. Not OPs major concerns for a while. Even then it's not their damage potential as much as it's their damage *avoidance* potential, which is the tempting feature. All these are personal opinions of course.
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Post by frunobulax on Mar 12, 2017 8:00:35 GMT -5
Okay, and the effective upgrade levels for the Pinata, Molots and Punishers are? There is none. Robots have an effective level because they gain speed until level 9 which makes a big difference, but for weapons it's just 10% every level. As robots gain health at 6% per level, a level 6 Pinata against a level 6 robot will be rougly as effective as a level 8 Pinata against a level 9 robot. But as matchmaking pushes you towards stronger opponents if you do a lot of damage, you're seeing a lot of enemies over your level (and quite a lot of seal clubbers). A plasma Griffin is easily the most effective weapon in that league, together with a Plasma Gareth. Pinatas are nice as they are already efficient at level 6 (which takes only 8 hours of upgrade time), but long term I wouldn't upgrade more than 2 (to go with Orkans on a DB Griff). Punishers are considered as weak weapon by most players. Molots, well, I'll stick to my opinion that you don't need Molots yet, not unless you're seeing a lot of Trident Furys on open maps like Canyon. Their DPS is way below other popular weapons, and the extra range helps only in few battles. But in the league you're in you should try to get everything to level 6 as soon as possible.
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Post by frunobulax on Mar 12, 2017 8:16:52 GMT -5
I'd say lvl 6 Molots for ranges 350...600 do very competitive damage. For 350...500 they are great. 600..800, just beyond midrange they're mostly good for harassing reds, which is useful when damage bottomline isn't the 1st priority. Under 350m they are badly outclassed by plasma, but otherwise still decent damage until getting into Thunder's effective range. [...] RDB is good against plasma-equipped shield bots, at levels around 9/9. It's also somewhat useful against TT Fury, especially with Griffin jump. Not OPs major concerns for a while. Even then it's not their damage potential as much as it's their damage *avoidance* potential, which is the tempting feature. RDB Griff is a very good midrange robot, but it doesn't provide enough punch to help if the reds push. One RDB in a hangar is enough for most players, two at most. As for Molots, Molot is the best weapon between 630m and 800m (out of range from Tridents and Hydras), but how often can you stay in that distance range? I'll compare DPS at level 12 because the ratio is identical at each level. Lvl12 Molots have 1451 DPS at point blank range (Magnum has true 3365 DPS up to 350m), and a lot of bullets will miss against a moving target. At 500m distance against a moving target (even as slow as a Natasha) that shrinks to maybe a third, say 500 DPS. Mk2 has 2308/800. Thus, a Molot Griffin would do 2600 DPS from 500m. That's not bad, but a RDB Griff does 3438 DPS and ignores physical shields, and most importantly: That Molot build needs constant line of sight, while the RDB can hide and reload. So I have to disagree, up to 500m a RDB is much, much better better.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2017 9:04:00 GMT -5
Keep the Magnum, but not in your active hangar. If you remove the Mag from a Leo and put in a Pinata, you are using a build that even I sometimes use. Thunder has no reload time and fires 9 shots in 9 seconds until the fire rate is halved. The Thunder is effective in <250, which is about the same as beacons. If you remove the Cossack, the Vityaz will be your beacon capper. Bit slower, but you will find out soon that you cannot cap a beacon with an enemy red standing next to it with a light bot. You should put Tarans on a Boa first, then the Griffin. Note that this is level 5 Pinatas we're talking about here. It's not quite "death button" destuction potential yet! It's actually quite pitiful, and recipe for quick death, because a DB build depends on having enough burst damage, which lvl 5 Pinata doesn't quite have. I didn't say to use a Death Button setup.
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Post by hyderier on Mar 12, 2017 11:24:42 GMT -5
I'd say lvl 6 Molots for ranges 350...600 do very competitive damage. For 350...500 they are great. 600..800, just beyond midrange they're mostly good for harassing reds, which is useful when damage bottomline isn't the 1st priority. Under 350m they are badly outclassed by plasma, but otherwise still decent damage until getting into Thunder's effective range. [...] RDB is good against plasma-equipped shield bots, at levels around 9/9. It's also somewhat useful against TT Fury, especially with Griffin jump. Not OPs major concerns for a while. Even then it's not their damage potential as much as it's their damage *avoidance* potential, which is the tempting feature. RDB Griff is a very good midrange robot, but it doesn't provide enough punch to help if the reds push. One RDB in a hangar is enough for most players, two at most. As for Molots, Molot is the best weapon between 630m and 800m (out of range from Tridents and Hydras), but how often can you stay in that distance range? I'll compare DPS at level 12 because the ratio is identical at each level. Lvl12 Molots have 1451 DPS at point blank range (Magnum has true 3365 DPS up to 350m), and a lot of bullets will miss against a moving target. At 500m distance against a moving target (even as slow as a Natasha) that shrinks to maybe a third, say 500 DPS. Mk2 has 2308/800. Thus, a Molot Griffin would do 2600 DPS from 500m. That's not bad, but a RDB Griff does 3438 DPS and ignores physical shields, and most importantly: That Molot build needs constant line of sight, while the RDB can hide and reload. So I have to disagree, up to 500m a RDB is much, much better better. How often do newbies (see title) face leveled-up Tridents and Hydras? Practical "safeish" range starts from 520 m. Also, a Molot bot can hunt an RDB, other way around less so. Also, Molots allow constant pressure (especially staggered firing of 4) on a beacon, forcing reds to either take damage or keep their head down, both good while blue knifers are aproaching them. Burst weapons aren't as good at this. Also, for Molots (even more so for Geckos but that's not relevant here), there's almost always some red you can shoot at, so that constant DPM adds up both for making reds mech out before blues, and for getting league points. What I'm trying to say is, Molot is a sniping weapon which you can bring to a knife fight if you have to. Very different from an RDB. Comparing just burst damage doesn't give the whole picture. Splash is the one thing which makes RDB arguably (edit: I mean, already in lower levels, playing the long game) better choice. Once in "high" enough league (Silver III?), where Gareths and Galahds roam the fields, you want that splash.
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Post by frunobulax on Mar 13, 2017 5:04:34 GMT -5
A plasma Gary will make quick work of any Molot or Punisher Griffin. The one thing that Molots have going for them is that they are intimidating (as are Punishers, Zenits and Noricums) and many new players will run for cover. Compared to that, the dry sound of a trident exploding (pop-pop-pop) can almost be missed by the inexperienced players. Of course, the Trident will get half of your health while the molots need 30 seconds of constant fire to achieve this...
Sure, it's always worth giving all weapons a try, I just spent half a day recently running unusual setups (unusual for me at least) like Molot Nashorn Natasha and Molot Fujin. And with the announced boost (improved firing rate) Molots may actually become viable again. But I'm convinved that plasma dominates the rookie leagues, something that Molots can't.
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Post by Why? on Mar 13, 2017 5:13:03 GMT -5
A plasma Gary will make quick work of any Molot or Punisher Griffin. The one thing that Molots have going for them is that they are intimidating (as are Punishers, Zenits and Noricums) and many new players will run for cover. Compared to that, the dry sound of a trident exploding (pop-pop-pop) can almost be missed by the inexperienced players. Of course, the Trident will get half of your health while the molots need 30 seconds of constant fire to achieve this... Sure, it's always worth giving all weapons a try, I just spent half a day recently running unusual setups (unusual for me at least) like Molot Nashorn Natasha and Molot Fujin. And with the announced boost (improved firing rate) Molots may actually become viable again. But I'm convinved that plasma dominates the rookie leagues, something that Molots can't. Wait a min. Do you mean I've been running in vain when a Griff unleashes its 6 punishers continuously? That would actually not be much effective against my dual-pinata/Mag/Thunder Leo? The biggest problem however I face is that I find myself alone consistently. 2-3 bots pushing into enemy lines and suddenly I find myself surrounded by 4-5 bots, with the ther two either chasing after some other bot or simply dead(absence of an ally healthbar doesn't help). I lumber over in my Leo to back up a Griff, and boom he is dead. Now I get stuck in a 3 on 1 bot shootout with a lumbering Leo.
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