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Post by copilotjesus on Mar 8, 2017 11:06:01 GMT -5
I'm currently rocking the PDB setup on a Griffon, and was looking at Galahad ad a potential upgrade. I'm just not sure if Galahad is actually better.
Griffon 2x Magnum, 2x Taran Galahad 2x Magnum, 1x Taran
Which is better?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2017 11:14:19 GMT -5
Galahad for sure.
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Post by FRΞΞDØM☆F1GHTΞR on Mar 8, 2017 11:22:42 GMT -5
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CLU 1.1
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Post by CLU 1.1 on Mar 8, 2017 11:26:48 GMT -5
Depends on your play style: the Griffin has an additional light hardpoint and the ability to jump into or out of position; the Galahad is quicker, can corner shoot with its full weapon loadout, and has a shield.
That being said, in a one-on-one fight between the two equal bots and weapons, a Galahad should win easily (I've taken on PDB Griffins in my Gareth and won).
The Galahad is probably more useful in TT play.
If you don't already have a Galahad I do recommend them.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2017 11:30:57 GMT -5
Depends on your play style: the Griffin has an additional light hardpoint and the ability to jump into or out of position; the Galahad is quicker, can corner shoot with its full weapon loadout, and has a shield. That being said, in a one-on-one fight between the two equal bots and weapons, a Galahad should win easily (I've taken on PDB Griffins in my Gareth and won). The Galahad is probably more useful in TT play. If you don't already have a Galahad I do recommend them. The choice for Galahad or Plasma Griffin isn't the ones where it 'depends on your play styles'. Plasma Griffins are free damage every game.
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Post by copilotjesus on Mar 8, 2017 11:32:43 GMT -5
That being said, in a one-on-one fight between the two equal bots and weapons, a Galahad should win easily (I've taken on PDB Griffins in my Gareth and won). I've noticed that the shields on Galahad and Gareth are a good counter to plasma. Since that seems to be a majority of what I see, it seems like a good choice.
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CLU 1.1
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Post by CLU 1.1 on Mar 8, 2017 11:40:34 GMT -5
Depends on your play style: the Griffin has an additional light hardpoint and the ability to jump into or out of position; the Galahad is quicker, can corner shoot with its full weapon loadout, and has a shield. That being said, in a one-on-one fight between the two equal bots and weapons, a Galahad should win easily (I've taken on PDB Griffins in my Gareth and won). The Galahad is probably more useful in TT play. If you don't already have a Galahad I do recommend them. The choice for Galahad or Plasma Griffin isn't the ones where it 'depends on your play styles'. Plasma Griffins are free damage every game. The 'best anything' is almost always subjective.. Many people don't have the time or patience to learn how to pilot a Gary or Stalker well. I don't have the patience to sit on the edge of the map and spam the red button while sniping. I find Plasma Griffins boring and easily countered (especially with the shield bots). Are they effective, sure, but not as effective as a Galahad is against one.
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Post by Demosthenes on Mar 8, 2017 11:57:55 GMT -5
I have occasionally seen plasma Griffins played to great effect, but not by me.
In a head-to-head the plasma Galahad has the odds stacked very firmly in its favour. Buying a Galahad is a good purchase.
I find Griffins much more effective with a DB load-out. With plasma I find Galahad much more effective.
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Post by Team Alpha Strike on Mar 8, 2017 12:24:43 GMT -5
I use both successfully and they both work.
Both are used at the highest level too.
While I favor the Plasmahad, I am beginning to use the PDB Griff more with the League system. Damage dealing is the name of the game now and the PDB deals more damage. At the top levels, pilots know not to attack opponents that their bot is weak against and at the same time play to the strengths of the bot they are in.
That being said, the plasma Galahad and plasma Griffin are two completely different animals. Their attack strategies are different as are their defense strategies.
My advice would be to stay with the PDB Griff - it has more situational flexibility and it plays better on more maps IMO. In the background, the new Dash bot will be coming --- it's just a matter of what format it arrives. This new bot will impact the Galahad more than the Griffin. Both Dash and Griffin have far superior firepower and flexibility than the Galahad (which is essentially seen in only the Plasmahad setup) - and it's not hard to see the Galahad falling out of use after the Dash gets here.
Lastly, speed is really the only real difference between the Galahad and the Lancelot (the BEST corner shooter in the game!) ---- but is the speed valued that much more? I'm struggling with this choice now, as I have 2 Lancelots, 3 Griffins, 2 Carnages, 3 Rhinos, and 2 Galahads --- all are levels 11 and 12. Speed vs Firepower is my dilemma and I'm trying to figure out which combo to best get high damage in the fastest way possible (beacon running takes place, but it is secondary to damage dealing). I'm coming to the point where I believe I'll be retiring my Galahads, as I see them as the weakest bot of the 5 and too similar to the Lancelot and Rhino (I play all these bots within their strengths/weaknesses, but that's just my personal assessment of the Galahad - please don't flame me for saying this).
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Post by miatahead on Mar 8, 2017 12:51:15 GMT -5
I switched from Plasma Griff to Galahad a few months back. I made the switch, but was very hesitant for various reasons.
Now with leagues, Griff is back in and Galahad is collecting dust. My initial beliefs on hanger builds appears to have been the better choice and I should have stuck with it. It would have been more efficient. Galahad ended up being sort of a waste of resources, just what Pix intended I'm sure. Although for organized team play, having a Galahad in the hanger isn't a bad option to have.
If Pix changes Leagues to factor in beacons more, Galahad might go back in. But for now, he's collecting dust on the shelf with my Rog. That dude has cobwebs growing out of his ears.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2017 12:53:36 GMT -5
...Galahad ended up being sort of a waste of resources, just what Pix intended I'm sure.... Galahad requires a good amount of skill to use. You can't just go in the field with guns blazing. You are the first person I saw regret the Galahad...
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Post by Trogon on Mar 8, 2017 13:03:39 GMT -5
I have and have used both. I like both. They are not interchangeable, they have different strengths and require different play styles. For those who say head-to-head plasmahad will eat PDB griff, they are right, if the PDB griff pilot is stupid enough to stand out in the open facing off with a full-health plasmahad.
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Post by petevb on Mar 8, 2017 13:25:26 GMT -5
You realize how different these are when you analyze their strengths and weaknesses:
The PDB Galahad is strong vs snipers, Plasma, Zeus, Thunder, short range rockets (when not in close). It's weak vs mid range rockets and any splash at close range.
The PDB Griffin is strong vs short and mid range rockets (with jump). It's weak vs Plasma, Zeus, Thunder (when in close).
Thus they are almost opposites, and must be played very differently because of it. The Galahad is best as a flanker while the Griffin is played best inside. Inside play tends to score more damage, flanking tends to apply strategic pressure (to beacons, etc) that helps win games. The Griffin excels on tight maps, the Galahad does better on larger/ more open ones.
Thus once again you can't answer "which is better" in a vacuum. You need to determine on which maps you need help. If you're running all Griffin / Thunder Carnage you could probably do with more strength on open maps and vs plasma. If you're running Rhinos and Fury you're probably already biased towards open maps, and would be better off keeping an inside brawler like the Griffin.
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Post by copilotjesus on Mar 8, 2017 13:29:41 GMT -5
I'm definitely geared for close combat, and could use more strength in my midrange game. There is tons of plasma in my leagues too, so I'm leaning towards Galahad. That might change before I can acquire one though.
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Post by Brimstone on Mar 8, 2017 13:55:48 GMT -5
What petevb says is truth. I shelved the PDB Griff in favor of the Plasmahad. It's a good beacon runner / flanking bot and with the proliferation of Carnages and Ancilots, I find it more versatile overall. I've taken out many Ancilots head on and won, especially the Taran version. The one weakness of the Plasmahad is mid-range splash - namely, RDB Griffs and Tridents. Good piloting can negate the orkan/pinata bots to some degree and you can sacrifice the shield on a full aphid load if you're sure you can get the kill. The mid-range splash, just have to use cover as best you can.
Having said that, the PDB Griff can really crank the damage but to me, is a little more situational in use and you have to pick your spots carefully.
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Post by miatahead on Mar 8, 2017 14:02:44 GMT -5
...Galahad ended up being sort of a waste of resources, just what Pix intended I'm sure.... Galahad requires a good amount of skill to use. You can't just go in the field with guns blazing. You are the first person I saw regret the Galahad... Pete's response basically explains why I think now, Galahad was sort of a waste. In League, damage is king and Griffin generally deals more damage than Galahad. If I hadn't built Galahad, I would be closer to a max hanger. However, I do think it's a good beacon runner and flanker and general meta PITA. Hence, it is sort of a waste instead of complete waste of resources.
I have no hard data, but in general, bringing back Griff has upped my damage average. So it gets the nod over Galahad right now. Although its not straight Plasma Griff I'm running.
Plus, it friggin' 30M silver to upgrade Galahad from level 11 to 12. Ridiculous.
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Post by ✧✦Ŋɫתʃɑ✦✧ on Mar 8, 2017 14:09:58 GMT -5
Both are good, but I think Griffin is better since jump is better than Shields 70% of the time, also Griffin has much more firepower.
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Post by shaolinrogue on Mar 8, 2017 14:15:18 GMT -5
With the new League system, I usually run my Galahad last or for pivotal moments in matches rather than leading with it. To maximize my damage I run my first 3-4 bots aggressively and then use my Plasmahad to stay alive the rest of the match while still spitting out a ton of plasma.
L10 Bots ~L9 Wep - Plasmahad, Lancelot (Happy New Year!), Ork/Mag Rhino, DB Griff/Taran ROG, Carnage with sets of Tridents/Thunders/Zeus
About to start my 5 match qualifier for Gold II on Android and not having any difficulties being competitive so far.
P.S. My Plasmahad loves roasted Griffins ~ So plump and easy to catch...YUM!
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Post by shaolinrogue on Mar 8, 2017 14:27:54 GMT -5
Both are good, but I think Griffin is better since jump is better than Shields 70% of the time, also Griffin has much more firepower. Potential fire power... 1. Griffs are slow and take longer to return from spawn/travel to new targets 2. Jump cooldown is too long to be used twice in a 1 on 1 and is only great for ambushing or retreating. The shield has virtually no cooldown and can be switched back at will and enables you to take on multiple opponents. The Galahad can be played more aggressively spending more time dumping plasma into enemies and less time hiding. 3. Griff corner shooting is terrible and brings it's fire power below that of a corner shooting Galahad by 1 Mag making it equal to a Gary...who by the way would probably still beat that griffin in a corner fight for all the same reasons the Galahad would. In terms of a plasma setup, I would think the Galahads worth is a given if you have the resources and simply outclasses the Griffin, which is fine, the Griffin is a silver bot. Griffins are great don't get me wrong, I am enjoying mine. They are better than most other bots in the game. If you're into rockets over plasma I'd recommend the Griffin as you want to keep your Brit bots > 300m away whenever possible. **** My Personal Opinion Based On Using Both from level 6-10 and at 12/12 on the test sever****
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Post by Feezou on Mar 8, 2017 14:29:14 GMT -5
If you're gonna put your self out there, Galahad. If you're peaking, or doing hit and runs, get a Griffin for fire power.
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Post by ✧✦Ŋɫתʃɑ✦✧ on Mar 8, 2017 14:37:08 GMT -5
Both are good, but I think Griffin is better since jump is better than Shields 70% of the time, also Griffin has much more firepower. Potential fire power... 1. Griffs are slow and take longer to return from spawn/travel to new targets 2. Jump cooldown is too long to be used twice in a 1 on 1 and is only great for ambushing or retreating. The shield has virtually no cooldown and can be switched back at will and enables you to take on multiple opponents. The Galahad can be played more aggressively spending more time dumping plasma into enemies and less time hiding. 3. Griff corner shooting is terrible and brings it's fire power below that of a corner shooting Galahad by 1 Mag making it equal to a Gary...who by the way would probably still beat that griffin in a corner fight for all the same reasons the Galahad would. In terms of a plasma setup, I would think the Galahads worth is a given if you have the resources and simply outclasses the Griffin, which is fine, the Griffin is a silver bot. Griffins are great don't get me wrong, I am enjoying mine. They are better than most other bots in the game. If you're into rockets over plasma I'd recommend the Griffin as you want to keep your Brit bots > 300m away whenever possible. **** My Personal Opinion Based On Using Both from level 6-10 and at 12/12 on the test sever**** I have both PDB builds and you are right, but I cant pull the same Griffin performance I have on a Galahad in the tier I'm playing in. Too much Orkans, its not easy to backpedal as people say, and even if it was you need to be at 200M away from the DB you are facing, a good Griffin will save his jump to engage at you if you are on a Gala, 50km/h cannot outrun a Griffin jump.
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Post by shaolinrogue on Mar 8, 2017 14:40:24 GMT -5
Potential fire power... 1. Griffs are slow and take longer to return from spawn/travel to new targets 2. Jump cooldown is too long to be used twice in a 1 on 1 and is only great for ambushing or retreating. The shield has virtually no cooldown and can be switched back at will and enables you to take on multiple opponents. The Galahad can be played more aggressively spending more time dumping plasma into enemies and less time hiding. 3. Griff corner shooting is terrible and brings it's fire power below that of a corner shooting Galahad by 1 Mag making it equal to a Gary...who by the way would probably still beat that griffin in a corner fight for all the same reasons the Galahad would. In terms of a plasma setup, I would think the Galahads worth is a given if you have the resources and simply outclasses the Griffin, which is fine, the Griffin is a silver bot. Griffins are great don't get me wrong, I am enjoying mine. They are better than most other bots in the game. If you're into rockets over plasma I'd recommend the Griffin as you want to keep your Brit bots > 300m away whenever possible. **** My Personal Opinion Based On Using Both from level 6-10 and at 12/12 on the test sever**** I have both PDB builds and you are right, but I cant pull the same Griffin performance I have on a Galahad in the tier I'm playing in. Too much Orkans, its not easy to backpedal as people say, and even if it was you need to be at 200M away from the DB you are facing, a good Griffin will save his jump to engage at you if you are on a Gala, 50km/h cannot outrun a Griffin jump. Excellent point - I am facing a fair number of Orkans but they are probably L8-10. L12 is a noticeable difference for sure.
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Post by ✧✦Ŋɫתʃɑ✦✧ on Mar 8, 2017 14:50:43 GMT -5
I have both PDB builds and you are right, but I cant pull the same Griffin performance I have on a Galahad in the tier I'm playing in. Too much Orkans, its not easy to backpedal as people say, and even if it was you need to be at 200M away from the DB you are facing, a good Griffin will save his jump to engage at you if you are on a Gala, 50km/h cannot outrun a Griffin jump. Excellent point - I am facing a fair number of Orkans but they are probably L8-10. L12 is a noticeable difference for sure. I have one Orkan at 12 and another at 10 on my DB Griff, if I jump on a Galahad they can take 1/3 of my bot's HP, but they go from 100 to 0 everytime. I still keep a Gala on my hangar just if things get messy and I need to cap beacons.
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Post by SlowReflexes on Mar 8, 2017 15:24:01 GMT -5
Galahad requires a good amount of skill to use. You can't just go in the field with guns blazing. You are the first person I saw regret the Galahad... Pete's response basically explains why I think now, Galahad was sort of a waste. In League, damage is king and Griffin generally deals more damage than Galahad. If I hadn't built Galahad, I would be closer to a max hanger. However, I do think it's a good beacon runner and flanker and general meta PITA. Hence, it is sort of a waste instead of complete waste of resources.
I have no hard data, but in general, bringing back Griff has upped my damage average. So it gets the nod over Galahad right now. Although its not straight Plasma Griff I'm running.
Plus, it friggin' 30M silver to upgrade Galahad from level 11 to 12. Ridiculous.
Interesting. I guess if you're already maxed or close enough to it, there's nothing else to play for. League score is how you differentiate yourself from your peers. Lower down, playing purely for league score might not automatically be the thing to do.
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Post by petevb on Mar 8, 2017 15:27:39 GMT -5
If you look at the breakdown of high win-rate top players you'll see they average one plasma Galahad (or occasionally Gareth) each. They also average two Griffin each, plus typically one Ancilot (or Lancilot) and one range bot. The Griffin is most often Orks (Deathbutton or Stuka) but plasma isn't far behind. So a "typical" >90% winrate top tier hanger would have one of each: PDB Griffin, PDB Galahad, DB Griffin, Ancilot, Fury... Personally I often run 2 Galahad and 1 Griffin rather than vice, versa, but it depends what I'm running for range, etc. I can generally do a lot of damage from the flanks in a PDB Galahad, so in tough games I don't notice my damage average going down. However as the Griffin is stronger on tight maps I'm more likely to run a 2nd if I've got Zeus in (weaker on tight maps than Tridents).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2017 16:14:45 GMT -5
I go back and forth between the two, both at level 9. Galahad was my longtime favorite, but as I have seen my competition tick up, Galahad often dies quick brutal deaths to rockets. I use plasma griff in the role that I used to use Rhino, as a supporting bot that throws lots of firepower at a target that is primarily engaged with a beefy teammate. I do get better damage with Griff. My griff has a tee-shirt that reads "I'm with Lancilot ->".
That said, i have recently gone back to galahad and use him as my final bot. His speed is a big help in closing out matches where a few bots are meched on each side - he really shines in 1 vs 1 matchups against Zeus, Trebs, Plasma Griff, Fujin, and non trident carnages. Also, you may notice in Galahad that often Ancilots will back off from you and not engage, as they don't want to waste time dealing with your shield and not getting damage points.
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Post by shaolinrogue on Mar 8, 2017 18:13:31 GMT -5
If you look at the breakdown of high win-rate top players you'll see they average one plasma Galahad (or occasionally Gareth) each. They also average two Griffin each, plus typically one Ancilot (or Lancilot) and one range bot. The Griffin is most often Orks (Deathbutton or Stuka) but plasma isn't far behind. So a "typical" >90% winrate top tier hanger would have one of each: PDB Griffin, PDB Galahad, DB Griffin, Ancilot, Fury... Personally I often run 2 Galahad and 1 Griffin rather than vice, versa, but it depends what I'm running for range, etc. I can generally do a lot of damage from the flanks in a PDB Galahad, so in tough games I don't notice my damage average going down. However as the Griffin is stronger on tight maps I'm more likely to run a 2nd if I've got Zeus in (weaker on tight maps than Tridents). #1 Awesome - Thank you for presenting some DATA #2 Is there a cool name for Ork/CRV Pin on a grif or rhino?
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Post by Team Alpha Strike on Mar 8, 2017 18:30:12 GMT -5
Too much Orkans, its not easy to backpedal as people say, and even if it was you need to be at 200M away from the DB you are facing, a good Griffin will save his jump to engage at you if you are on a Gala, 50km/h cannot outrun a Griffin jump. Shhhhhh - you can't let Gala pilots know this. They expect a jump anywhere but towards them when they are backpedaling. To tell you the truth, Plasmahads are more of a problem when I'm in my PDB Griffin if they are inside 50m. If i have to fight a Plasmahad, I'll kill it if the pilot come straight in like a tank --- which most of them do when fighting PDBs. The bottom line is that both PDB Griff and Plasmahad work, even in the Champion league level. You can use both at the same time or either one if them. I'm just moving towards the Griffs strictly for damages. The fact that other pilots are starting to use more heavies is okay, cause the PDB has more firepower. Howevermp, I'd probably switch back if Pix makes beacon mire important to ranking.
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Post by ✧✦Ŋɫתʃɑ✦✧ on Mar 8, 2017 18:43:39 GMT -5
Too much Orkans, its not easy to backpedal as people say, and even if it was you need to be at 200M away from the DB you are facing, a good Griffin will save his jump to engage at you if you are on a Gala, 50km/h cannot outrun a Griffin jump. Shhhhhh - you can't let Gala pilots know this. They expect a jump anywhere but towards them when they are backpedaling. To tell you the truth, Plasmahads are more of a problem when I'm in my PDB Griffin if they are inside 50m. If i have to fight a Plasmahad, I'll kill it if the pilot come straight in like a tank --- which most of them do when fighting PDBs. The bottom line is that both PDB Griff and Plasmahad work, even in the Champion league level. You can use both at the same time or either one if them. I'm just moving towards the Griffs strictly for damages. The fact that other pilots are starting to use more heavies is okay, cause the PDB has more firepower. Howevermp, I'd probably switch back if Pix makes beacon mire important to ranking. They probably will do something about beacons being important to ranking since the new bots they are making (assuming that they will not change much from what the bots are in test server) seems that they will perform really good at beacon capping. I find Plasmahad's to be a problem when jump is on cooldown on short maps, that really sucks. Besides that I think that people really underestimates Griffin's interactions with Galahad, you won't find dumb Griffin pilots in TT leagues. (Hopefully lol)
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Post by mijapi300 on Mar 8, 2017 18:44:20 GMT -5
...Galahad ended up being sort of a waste of resources, just what Pix intended I'm sure.... Galahad requires a good amount of skill to use. You can't just go in the field with guns blazing. You are the first person I saw regret the Galahad... He seems to dislike anything that has a shield where you could strap another gun to. That's kind of a result of the damage only ranking system. Kind of encourages that type of play.
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