SΛVΛGΞ ™
Destrier
Posts: 33
Karma: 7
Clan: Boom Last Bots
League: Diamond
Favorite robot: Galahad
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Post by SΛVΛGΞ ™ on Mar 7, 2017 18:34:49 GMT -5
Is this an unreasonable idea? IMO, it would:
1 - Stimulate beacon capping in the current DAMAGE DAMAGE DAMAGE! meta.
2 - Reward cappers and players who can´t afford or don´t want to run Lances and Furies, thus improving bot variety in the ever dull upper Leagues.
3 - Reinforce the actual game objective of territory domination.
4 - Not cause any considerable imbalance in the match´s Cups rewards, since they range from 14 (i think) to -20, and it´s rare to see someone with more than four beacons per match.
THOUGHTS?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 18:39:30 GMT -5
Only of players who didn't capture any beacons get - points.
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Post by zer00eyz on Mar 7, 2017 18:47:39 GMT -5
Yes its totally unreasonable:
You get gold for capping, cups for damage and your rank.
Do you want stalker pilots in high silver or gold? Because then you have lop sided matches in another way.
The league system is fine --- If you want to go up in leagues then do damage if you want to play how you want then find a comfortable level and set up camp there.
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Post by ewing411 on Mar 7, 2017 18:52:56 GMT -5
Please don't go around trying to star a flame war. Considering the degree of stress and lopsided censorship we have going around here there is ample evidence that things are not fine at all. |
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Post by Pilot Moby_dic on Mar 7, 2017 19:00:46 GMT -5
Is this an unreasonable idea? IMO, it would: 1 - Stimulate beacon capping in the current DAMAGE DAMAGE DAMAGE! meta. 2 - Reward cappers and players who can´t afford or don´t want to run Lances and Furies, thus improving bot variety in the ever dull upper Leagues. 3 - Reinforce the actual game objective of territory domination. 4 - Not cause any considerable imbalance in the match´s Cups rewards, since they range from 14 (i think) to -20, and it´s rare to see someone with more than four beacons per match. THOUGHTS? I'm still trying to cap as many beacons as I can. Wins games. I think a good idea would be if you are on the losing side but get max beacons you get limited points deduction (e.g -3) for the league. Nothing worse than busting a ball to help the team turn beacons (and vein a bit kamakazi) and getting -20. Luckily this last game I still got 375k damage and +7 points  |
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Post by zer00eyz on Mar 7, 2017 19:36:30 GMT -5
Please don't go around trying to star a flame war. Considering the degree of stress and lopsided censorship we have going around here there is ample evidence that things are not fine at all. Lets clear some things up: Its not censorship, the mods do an admirable job of keeping things civil and sane. You asked if your idea was reasonable and I gave my response. The "end game" of leagues isn't the only way to play. It is a metric for sorting and you get rewarded for being in the "right place" or working you self into the "right place". If your loosing because people forgot about beacons you have a lot of choices: Change your hanger, and maybe take a league hit in the process. Squad with people who don't suck (I suspect you have that button). Join a clan. But realy the meta of "damage" is one way to play. Top tier hangers are a mono culture because heavies and DPM are one way of sorting and it generally keeps things balanced. Your suggestion will result in stalker pilots who end up meat for those same top tier hangers... Lets look at me... I like to run lights some times, because FAST and SNEAKY is sometimes fun vs slow and plodding. Your system would ENCOURAGE me to avoid beacons to accelerate my movement down to where I'm effective and NOT a piñata |
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Post by mijapi300 on Mar 7, 2017 19:59:32 GMT -5
Saying this would encourage tanking is a ridiculous argument. People that are going to tank are already tanking, and they aren't capturing beacons while they tank already. So this has no effect on them. The current system requires your team losing the match in order to tank. So they're already avoiding beacons if they want to lower their tier.
I personally like the idea, but I'd rather them incorporate beacons and kills into the game by game ranking. 1 point per 100k damage, 1 point per kill, 1 point per beacon cap. Thus, someone who does 200k damage, 2 kills, and 7 beacon captures gets 11 points. Someone who does 600k damage, 4 kills, and totally ignored beacons gets 10 points. The individual game standings would be shown based on this "overall contribution" system, and you'd get the same cup distribution as it is now, just not solely based on damage.
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Post by ewing411 on Mar 7, 2017 20:50:56 GMT -5
Lets clear some things up: Its not censorship, the mods do an admirable job of keeping things civil and sane. You asked if your idea was reasonable and I gave my response. The "end game" of leagues isn't the only way to play. It is a metric for sorting and you get rewarded for being in the "right place" or working you self into the "right place". If your loosing because people forgot about beacons you have a lot of choices: Change your hanger, and maybe take a league hit in the process. Squad with people who don't suck (I suspect you have that button). Join a clan. But realy the meta of "damage" is one way to play. Top tier hangers are a mono culture because heavies and DPM are one way of sorting and it generally keeps things balanced. Your suggestion will result in stalker pilots who end up meat for those same top tier hangers... Lets look at me... I like to run lights some times, because FAST and SNEAKY is sometimes fun vs slow and plodding. Your system would ENCOURAGE me to avoid beacons to accelerate my movement down to where I'm effective and NOT a piñata Let's clear a few things up. 1. Censorship is the suppression of any speach. Good or bad, for good or bad reasons. If the end goal is to censor upsetting topics then it should be evenhandedly. Which has not been done here. Use of those powers is best done in and open and clear manner, and most importantly uniformly fair. 2. This post isn't mine so your response was not ask for by me. 3. Currently we have two ways to play this game. First is Leagues are everything. That is part of the reason we live in the current Damage-is-everything-meta. The second is score manipulation to get easier fights and stomp for gold and tears. People can chose to play differnetly but that only works if one doesn't care about the league score, winning, or anything except the personal game experience. More power to anyone who can do that. 4. Clans could very well be a great solution. Squading using the Facebook and other options like Discord for coms. This being a mobile device game however it needs to take into account the high flux of randoms. If regular game play focuses on stress inducing mechanisms then this game will not be long for this world unless people start paying subs. 5. The OPs post was to reward combat around beacons. If you want to criticize it then say it punishes snipers, safe-space midrange, etc. Then again I'm not sure we have any perky TT Fury cheerleaders on the forums. Saying it doesn't reward tactical maneuvering could be another approach. |
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Post by SlowReflexes on Mar 7, 2017 21:07:01 GMT -5
Yeah it's a terrible idea. For exactly the reasons I outlined when I was arguing with Weed when I mistakenly thought he had suggested the terrible idea of awarding league points for beacons directly.
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Post by zer00eyz on Mar 7, 2017 21:59:02 GMT -5
Lets clear some things up: Its not censorship, the mods do an admirable job of keeping things civil and sane. You asked if your idea was reasonable and I gave my response. The "end game" of leagues isn't the only way to play. It is a metric for sorting and you get rewarded for being in the "right place" or working you self into the "right place". If your loosing because people forgot about beacons you have a lot of choices: Change your hanger, and maybe take a league hit in the process. Squad with people who don't suck (I suspect you have that button). Join a clan. But realy the meta of "damage" is one way to play. Top tier hangers are a mono culture because heavies and DPM are one way of sorting and it generally keeps things balanced. Your suggestion will result in stalker pilots who end up meat for those same top tier hangers... Lets look at me... I like to run lights some times, because FAST and SNEAKY is sometimes fun vs slow and plodding. Your system would ENCOURAGE me to avoid beacons to accelerate my movement down to where I'm effective and NOT a piñata Let's clear a few things up. 1. Censorship is the suppression of any speach. Good or bad, for good or bad reasons. If the end goal is to censor upsetting topics then it should be evenhandedly. Which has not been done here. Use of those powers is best done in and open and clear manner, and most importantly uniformly fair. 2. This post isn't mine so your response was not ask for by me. 3. Currently we have two ways to play this game. First is Leagues are everything. That is part of the reason we live in the current Damage-is-everything-meta. The second is score manipulation to get easier fights and stomp for gold and tears. People can chose to play differnetly but that only works if one doesn't care about the league score, winning, or anything except the personal game experience. More power to anyone who can do that. 4. Clans could very well be a great solution. Squading using the Facebook and other options like Discord for coms. This being a mobile device game however it needs to take into account the high flux of randoms. If regular game play focuses on stress inducing mechanisms then this game will not be long for this world unless people start paying subs. 5. The OPs post was to reward combat around beacons. If you want to criticize it then say it punishes snipers, safe-space midrange, etc. Then again I'm not sure we have any perky TT Fury cheerleaders on the forums. Saying it doesn't reward tactical maneuvering could be another approach. 1. You have the entire internet to share your opinion with, no one is stoping you there, rules here keep things civil and help the mods out. If you don't like it start your own fourm. 2. I stand corrected! 3. I care about my league score and keeping it mostly the same. To that end I can play winning or loosing hangers at my whim. In fact I can play just about any hanger I want... None of it feels like clubbing because none if it is over or under powered relative to my opponents. Theres a big difference between "tanking" and staying on a level playing field and clubbing. 4. You don't even need to go this far. I play my but off and get quite a few squad invites from randoms. Sometimes these are great sometimes these stink, I try to take them as much as possible. 5. The upper leagues are the location where, you either have to make a time investment (both playing the game and elapsed time) or a financial investment. It is designed to be tempting, to drive players to spend money or play more (you know you like short match making times, we all do). But that isn't the whole game, you can happily play down and stay in lights, in lightly upgraded bots and have FUN. We all laugh at the zenitards but honestly even THAT bot at low levels can be fun! If we start factoring capping into league score then were going to end up with over promoted light pilots who can snatch caps at lower levels who are going to rubber band worse than some folks already are but the high DPS meta will remain. In thinking about a "real solution" because that would stifle a lot of this, I don't have a good one. If I think back to my old battle tech days they had a system for weighting lances and handicapping matches that was pretty good (but still exploitable) --- that would be a hard conversion from where War Robots and Pix is currently... |
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Post by ShutUpAndSmokeMyWeed on Mar 7, 2017 22:03:50 GMT -5
You would have to balance it out by taking away points from someone else. The way the rating system works is 1 point gained = 1 point lost.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 22:08:16 GMT -5
You would have to balance it out by taking away points from someone else. The way the rating system works is 1 point gained = 1 point lost. I've always felt that the -20 is too low for the last guy on the losing team, and the +2 was too high for the last guy on the winning team. |
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Post by ewing411 on Mar 7, 2017 22:20:56 GMT -5
1. Censorship is the suppression of any speach. Good or bad, for good or bad reasons. If the end goal is to censor upsetting topics then it should be evenhandedly. Which has not been done here. Use of those powers is best done in and open and clear manner, and most importantly uniformly fair. 1. You have the entire internet to share your opinion with, no one is stoping you there, rules here keep things civil and help the mods out. If you don't like it start your own fourm. Actually they don't and that was my point. |
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Post by Team Alpha Strike on Mar 7, 2017 22:32:05 GMT -5
Reward for grabbing beacons would be corrupted by beacon farming.
Savvy pillots (like me) used to farm beacons when you got to paid Ag for it and pull 5 Au fro running g even using all heavies.
You have no idea how bad it will be if beacons become a real reward/ranking metric.
10-20 beacons per match for one pilot would become common.
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SΛVΛGΞ ™
Destrier
Posts: 33
Karma: 7
Clan: Boom Last Bots
League: Diamond
Favorite robot: Galahad
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Post by SΛVΛGΞ ™ on Mar 7, 2017 23:12:51 GMT -5
Hold on guys. I'm kinda new here and wasn't trying to start any fights or drama. I just had an idea and wanted to run it past people with more game knowledge. Sorry if I said something wrong.
Anyway, I feel that a lot of players don't even care for beacons AT ALL, even if being 30m from one. That lopsides the game in my view. If all that matters is damage we might as well be done with the beacons.
So what if we see stalkers in high tiers? It's a choice the player should have. I think every robot should have something appealing even in competitive games, as hard as that may be with all weapons and counters combinations.
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SΛVΛGΞ ™
Destrier
Posts: 33
Karma: 7
Clan: Boom Last Bots
League: Diamond
Favorite robot: Galahad
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Post by SΛVΛGΞ ™ on Mar 7, 2017 23:20:16 GMT -5
Saying this would encourage tanking is a ridiculous argument. People that are going to tank are already tanking, and they aren't capturing beacons while they tank already. So this has no effect on them. The current system requires your team losing the match in order to tank. So they're already avoiding beacons if they want to lower their tier. I personally like the idea, but I'd rather them incorporate beacons and kills into the game by game ranking. 1 point per 100k damage, 1 point per kill, 1 point per beacon cap. Thus, someone who does 200k damage, 2 kills, and 7 beacon captures gets 11 points. Someone who does 600k damage, 4 kills, and totally ignored beacons gets 10 points. The individual game standings would be shown based on this "overall contribution" system, and you'd get the same cup distribution as it is now, just not solely based on damage. This could work too. About tanking and ditching etc, I don't even consider them into this post. I believe we should depart from a mindset of an honest player. |
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ANARCHY
Destrier
Posts: 18
Karma: 9
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Post by ANARCHY on Mar 8, 2017 0:12:09 GMT -5
Is this an unreasonable idea? IMO, it would: 1 - Stimulate beacon capping in the current DAMAGE DAMAGE DAMAGE! meta. 2 - Reward cappers and players who can´t afford or don´t want to run Lances and Furies, thus improving bot variety in the ever dull upper Leagues. 3 - Reinforce the actual game objective of territory domination. 4 - Not cause any considerable imbalance in the match´s Cups rewards, since they range from 14 (i think) to -20, and it´s rare to see someone with more than four beacons per match. THOUGHTS? this is a great suggestion for consideration. one Legendary Pilot point per beacon is NOT unreasonable. Even stalker getting killed very easily if not skilled trying to get those beacons. But the point of this thread is HOW we should reward the pilots that focus on beacons rather than damages. I feel bad to lose a game and I would score highest damages thus gaining +Legendary Pilot ; while the last pilot on my losing team would get -20 even they get 6+ beacons due to being LAST on damages dealer. Pixionics needs to find a way to reward these pilots for their focus & dedication. |
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Post by cakeordeath on Mar 8, 2017 0:49:15 GMT -5
You would have to balance it out by taking away points from someone else. The way the rating system works is 1 point gained = 1 point lost. Yep. The zero sum basis of the league point system is why a straight 1 beacon equals one league point won't work. Who gets the negative point? Besides, it would give a huge incentive to farm beacons and never defend them (more benefit in recapturing than defending). I agree beacon captures should have some weight in the placement math (roughly equal to 50k damage per beacon seems fair to me but that'should just my opinion; perhaps it should scale by league since damage output increases as you rise in league). Pixonic have already said they are looking into ways to factor beacons into how we place after matches so this "damage is everything" meta should tone down a bit. |
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Post by sochilli (Saltesers) on Mar 8, 2017 1:35:30 GMT -5
As a capper/midrange flex, I really wouldn't mind. I get high damage AND high beacons, and this would just help me attain my bragging ri- I mean trophies faster.
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Post by Demosthenes on Mar 8, 2017 7:50:09 GMT -5
Capturing beacons does influence leagues. My preference is to run fast manoeuvrable 'bots, I always try for the medal of capture as well as doing as much damage as I can. Capturing beacons means my team is more likely to win and hence I (and they) will win league points. To advance in leagues (I am on my second foray into Diamond I from Diamond II) I have to always play hard for the win, even though not all my team seems that bothered. If there are a few of us in each match doing the same I think that can only improve the game. Though I have (for no particularly great reason) set myself the goal of advancing as high as I can in the leagues the stat that is most important to me is win percentage (highest in leagues so far 74%, lowest 46%) - so by happy accident this approach contributes to both goals. I also rake in a steady if not massive income of Au and Ag.  |
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