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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 15:10:14 GMT -5
Appreciate advice from those regularly facing level 10-12 bots/weapons competition. I have been running a Trident Carnage for midrange for the past few weeks. Carnage is level 8, tridents at 8/8. I have the WSP now for a third trident, and the plan was to replace carnage with the inevitable Fury for going to the higher levels. I always assumed I needed one midrange bot for balance and long maps. But the thing is, it's not a fun setup for me. Also, I feel that I am not contributing enough despite taking my pot-shots every 10 seconds. I want to get in there and mix it up, cap beacons, help my blues when they are taking fire. So I added thunders to carnage instead, and really like the build a lot. So as I reconsider the fury, i am wondering the following: 1) Does the Fury's extra trident make it so much more potent than the trident carnage to the extent that it will mitigate the "I'm not helping" feeling I get from the carnage? 2) Is the all knife-fighting hangar viable in higher levels? 3) If I forego a Fury, is the attached hangar viable to move up with, or should I be swapping Carnage for something else?
Thanks for your help!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 15:59:52 GMT -5
I would buy the Fury. A Fury will prevent you from meching out most of your games and it will provide you team with a big advantage (in the 400K damage range). After I got my Fury, my mothballed Carnage stayed strictly Thunders. An all knifer hangar not really effective in the 450-550K damage range, because you do need some support. The Carnage should be seriously swapped for a Trident Fury.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 16:18:00 GMT -5
@heavypanda you already know my advice, fight with those knife fighters until that last one is smokin' and sparkin' trying to take down one more red or cap a beacon for the win.
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Feb 27, 2017 16:58:38 GMT -5
What level were the Tridents that you had on your Carny? I seem to have plenty of good games in mine... 8/9 Carny/Trident. It's a support bot in the purest sense. 2 tridents won't win 1v1 battles typically... but if you can hit a bot that your teammate is hitting, from a flank (which Carny is awesome at) then you will either contribute to the quicker killing of that bot, distract it from your teammate so that it focuses on you, or cause it to hide completely. I can't tell you how many games I had that the last 1/4 of it was while I was in the Trident Carny, TT Fury hunting, light bot killing, directly supporting knifers, etc., and honestly felt like I contributed, but it is a very high number. Especially in SF and Yam and Canyon. Damage potential of the Fury is definitely higher, but the versatility of the Carny is what keeps me using it. I'm not in TT though, merely a 8/9 average hanger... so take it fwiw.
EDIT: Just saw that you have already stated the levels... my bad.
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BumbleBeast
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Post by BumbleBeast on Feb 27, 2017 17:09:39 GMT -5
What level were the Tridents that you had on your Carny? I seem to have plenty of good games in mine... 8/9 Carny/Trident. It's a support bot in the purest sense. 2 tridents won't win 1v1 battles typically... but if you can hit a bot that your teammate is hitting, from a flank (which Carny is awesome at) then you will either contribute to the quicker killing of that bot, distract it from your teammate so that it focuses on you, or cause it to hide completely. I can't tell you how many games I had that the last 1/4 of it was while I was in the Trident Carny, TT Fury hunting, light bot killing, directly supporting knifers, etc., and honestly felt like I contributed, but it is a very high number. Especially in SF and Yam and Canyon. Damage potential of the Fury is definitely higher, but the versatility of the Carny is what keeps me using it. I'm not in TT though, merely a 8/9 average hanger... so take it fwiw. If you're going to flank people with a carnage, then get 2 zeus's to put on it.
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Feb 27, 2017 17:41:06 GMT -5
What level were the Tridents that you had on your Carny? I seem to have plenty of good games in mine... 8/9 Carny/Trident. It's a support bot in the purest sense. 2 tridents won't win 1v1 battles typically... but if you can hit a bot that your teammate is hitting, from a flank (which Carny is awesome at) then you will either contribute to the quicker killing of that bot, distract it from your teammate so that it focuses on you, or cause it to hide completely. I can't tell you how many games I had that the last 1/4 of it was while I was in the Trident Carny, TT Fury hunting, light bot killing, directly supporting knifers, etc., and honestly felt like I contributed, but it is a very high number. Especially in SF and Yam and Canyon. Damage potential of the Fury is definitely higher, but the versatility of the Carny is what keeps me using it. I'm not in TT though, merely a 8/9 average hanger... so take it fwiw. If you're going to flank people with a carnage, then get 2 zeus's to put on it. I run both, Trident and Zeus, depending on the day and the mood, hell, sometimes both at the same time. The basic idea is the same, but the targets chosen are different. I prefer Zeus... but the OP was asking about the Trident.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 18:32:28 GMT -5
ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48, tridents are at 8 - When I hit a bot, it takes ~30k off their health. Which means on my own, it takes ~5 volleys to kill most level 8/9 heavy bots. But because I usually hop from target to target, you never really feel like you are messing up someone's day. Thunder Carnage or DB brings the ouch in 4-8 seconds when up close and personal. I guess that's where my disconnect is. I am really trying to figure out if the added punch of a Fury makes the midrange game feel more satisfying, or if i should just stick to what is most fun and blow bots up from point blank, and then, if doing so is viable once the bad guys level up, or if a knife hangar will just mech out every game.
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buford
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Post by buford on Feb 27, 2017 18:42:38 GMT -5
3 lvl 9 tridents over your 2 lvl 8 is like night and day difference. I hate to recommend furies because I hate facing them all the time. However, to keep in mind with all midrange approaches, is the time saving of not having to travel to your opponent to deliver the damage. Your DB griff sure is effective at murdering another bot in seconds, but it took how long to get him there? Also, what is his life span? The midranger can have several targets in range at once while avoiding knife damage just by being out of their range.
You can plug away doing very heavy damage for quite a while. Usually much longer then any knifer.
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Post by ✧✦Ŋɫתʃɑ✦✧ on Feb 27, 2017 18:47:22 GMT -5
You need at least one bot for midrange to stay away from those numerous Orkancers you will find in top tier. Fury with Tridents helps you pressure center beacons and get a good damage score without much effort, now that leagues are back, its all about the damage. (Even if you lose, its still all about the damage).
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Post by ✧✦Ŋɫתʃɑ✦✧ on Feb 27, 2017 20:15:52 GMT -5
Wow, just played against you on a really close match lol
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Meep
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Post by Meep on Feb 27, 2017 20:26:12 GMT -5
Id put the tridents on a Nat, Pins for light weapons, and play with that a bit to see how it feels. While not exactly the same it should mimic the feel close enough compared to the Carnage.
I like mine well enough that i'm not in any hurry to buy a Fury.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 20:27:21 GMT -5
Wow, just played against you on a really close match lol Nice! That was my first league qualification matchup for the month I think. We had the lead and you guys pulled it out at the end! Well played. Did notice you and a few others were Diamond League IIRC...
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Post by ✧✦Ŋɫתʃɑ✦✧ on Feb 27, 2017 20:35:52 GMT -5
Wow, just played against you on a really close match lol Nice! That was my first league qualification matchup for the month I think. We had the lead and you guys pulled it out at the end! Well played. Did notice you and a few others were Diamond League IIRC... There is a slight unbalance between player ranks I think. Sometimes I play games where I see Master/Especialist tier players in my matches, but that must be caused by not too many players online, so if the MM cant find apropriate matches for those high tier players, they will just put them to play with us lol. I just got to gold II today and rushing for gold I, I dont see anything bellow lv 9 in those ranks.
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Post by sochilli (Saltesers) on Feb 27, 2017 20:54:53 GMT -5
Can I provide another alternative?
Donate your gold to me, I need my fifth slot.
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Post by EatStinkyTofu on Feb 27, 2017 20:57:54 GMT -5
I run an all short range hangar (10/10). My win% hovers in the low 60s. On larger maps it is challenging but I can compensate by using more bots with good speed (Galahad x2 and 1 carnage/Rhino) to leverage positions
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 21:16:15 GMT -5
Can I provide another alternative? Donate your gold to me, I need my fifth slot. Would you just run a cossak in that slot though?
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tagnal
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Post by tagnal on Feb 27, 2017 21:44:30 GMT -5
A huge advantage of Fury over the Carnage that I haven't seen mentioned yet is the height of the weapons. You can often shoot over other teammates that run in front of you, shoot over taller obstacles/cover and be protected while doing so since your center-mass where enemies target you is lower. That with the 50% increase in damage and the ability to actually do damage to energy shield bots with those 3 extra missiles helps a lot. Not sure how well 2 carnages with tridents can battle each other, but I'm sure you've experienced trying to battle a TT Fury that slightly staggers the firing of his 3 tridents to blow down your shield and hit you with a few rounds each volley.
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Post by sochilli (Saltesers) on Feb 27, 2017 22:08:39 GMT -5
Can I provide another alternative? Donate your gold to me, I need my fifth slot. Would you just run a cossak in that slot though? No id run a destrier. What do you think?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 22:09:18 GMT -5
With Ecus?
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Post by SoCalGrndR on Feb 27, 2017 23:36:19 GMT -5
Appreciate advice from those regularly facing level 10-12 bots/weapons competition. I have been running a Trident Carnage for midrange for the past few weeks. Carnage is level 8, tridents at 8/8. I have the WSP now for a third trident, and the plan was to replace carnage with the inevitable Fury for going to the higher levels. I always assumed I needed one midrange bot for balance and long maps. But the thing is, it's not a fun setup for me. Also, I feel that I am not contributing enough despite taking my pot-shots every 10 seconds. I want to get in there and mix it up, cap beacons, help my blues when they are taking fire. So I added thunders to carnage instead, and really like the build a lot. So as I reconsider the fury, i am wondering the following: 1) Does the Fury's extra trident make it so much more potent than the trident carnage to the extent that it will mitigate the "I'm not helping" feeling I get from the carnage? 2) Is the all knife-fighting hangar viable in higher levels? 3) If I forego a Fury, is the attached hangar viable to move up with, or should I be swapping Carnage for something else?
heavyp, We are in the same boat, up against that same strong river!! Slow Reflexes was also in the same boat with Gold I tier. I have been debating the Fury since before I puchased my Lancelot. Although I really dont want to pace back and forth waiting to fire..... I really dont see any other way to truly be as competitive as possible. I also feel when I run my Tri/Carny that I am a 2nd string mid-ranger. It does not feel like I am doing alot of damage or effecting movement of the reds. I qualified last month in Gold I, I was running the Carnage, didnt know I was qualifiying. I now am placed in Diamond III (WTH???) I made the cut by 3 cups. I was 8.5/9 last month and now I am 9/9.1 (1 - level 10 wep). Did not play any matches since qualifying today, but I felt underpowered then & not sure what to think now?? I have 2200 Au now & I can not deny the strategic value and damage potential of the Fury. My competitive nature believes this is the only true path to take. I have 30k+ WS, getting another Trident is not a problem. Where did you qualify?
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Post by Strayed on Feb 28, 2017 0:15:38 GMT -5
Get the fury, if you don't have the gold for it, use an rdb griff.
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Post by sochilli (Saltesers) on Feb 28, 2017 0:18:00 GMT -5
Get the fury, if you don't have the gold for it, use an rdb griff. Or a Trident Pin Nat #PMFlife
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Post by SoCalGrndR on Feb 28, 2017 0:36:46 GMT -5
Get the fury, if you don't have the gold for it, use an rdb griff. Or a Trident Pin Nat #PMFlife I have tried that myself, received the Pin 9-10 bug fix (thanks Pix for my 1st level 10 weps) It does well if I dont have to worry about getting damaged. At level 6, the Natty can not take much of a punch before all the lights turn off!!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 0:37:58 GMT -5
I now am placed in Diamond III (WTH???) Where did you qualify? Congrats on diamond level grinder! I am in silver 1! Funny thing is I was ranging 525k -839k in damage during qualifying. Was sure I would place in gold 3, but nope. A month of silver 1 action for me. Thanks for ur thoughts on this fury thing.
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Post by petevb on Feb 28, 2017 0:40:16 GMT -5
1. Yes, the T Trident Fury will make you feel like you're doing something. It will take a while to upgrade but a max TT Fury does 120% more damage than your current Carage- over 2x the damage per burst, an entirely different class. The Trident Carnage is very rare in Top; both Carnage Zeus and the RDB Griffin are far more common (and effective).
2. Yes, all brawler is viable in Top, especially solo. Most who run it however will either a) be going mainly for damage over wins, b) skip maps or c) be backed up by a strong clan with range. Without range even a top team will get slaughtered on open maps like Canyons against strong opposition. Typically an all brawler player will let their team down in that situation by meching out early, so unless you're a particularly strong player one mid-range is highly recommended.
3. The Carnage Thunder is not a mainstream top tier bot currently- too hit and miss. Perhaps the Ancile mod will change this, but while fun it's simply too squishy for the toughest matches at the moment. The RDB Griffin is a good half-way house for those that don't like mid-range if you're having trouble with hanging back.
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Post by mechtout on Feb 28, 2017 5:18:59 GMT -5
Seriously, get the fury its worth it. Even at mid level you'll be scoring decent damage. You know its a worthy bot when you constantly have reds making a "b-line" past other blues to try to take you out.
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karljackson
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Post by karljackson on Feb 28, 2017 6:10:13 GMT -5
Id put the tridents on a Nat, Pins for light weapons, and play with that a bit to see how it feels. While not exactly the same it should mimic the feel close enough compared to the Carnage. I like mine well enough that i'm not in any hurry to buy a Fury. Zeus Molot Tasha is surprisingly effective. Does a good job moving those triple tridents off thier spot. You can punish jumping Griffins as well. Tasha is soooooo much cheaper...
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tagnal
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Post by tagnal on Feb 28, 2017 15:11:21 GMT -5
Id put the tridents on a Nat, Pins for light weapons, and play with that a bit to see how it feels. While not exactly the same it should mimic the feel close enough compared to the Carnage. I like mine well enough that i'm not in any hurry to buy a Fury. Zeus Molot Tasha is surprisingly effective. Does a good job moving those triple tridents off thier spot. You can punish jumping Griffins as well. Tasha is soooooo much cheaper... Zeus Molot will not stop shield bots from pushing.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 15:15:06 GMT -5
Appreciate the alternative suggestions, but I have no Zeuses, and three tridents, so at this point it is TT Fury, or a 5th knife fighter. Thanks everyone for your advice.
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crave1ne
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Post by crave1ne on Feb 28, 2017 15:56:02 GMT -5
I am REALLY close to getting a Carnage. I won a Zues in the Lunar event, and have enough gold for a second Zues for it. I'm trying to hold out on a fury. I do love my RDB Griffin, but the Zues Carnage will be taking its spot soon enough.
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