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Post by gr3ygh05t on Feb 24, 2017 14:38:25 GMT -5
This is a prediction of what will be the norm post 2.6.1. I am in iOS so Leagues haven't made it here yet.
Tanking will be the norm. You are naïve to think Leagues will fix this, no it will make it worse, a lot worse. Earning gold in the low brackets, especially for well equipped hangars, is easy and Leagues doesn't change this fact.
Gold award for Leagues are only supposed to be given near the end of the month. A dedicated tanker would just tank at the beginning of the League then mad rush up near the end of the League to maximize gold earnings. After which they would just retank down again.
You can rant all you want but this will be the future and tanking is here to stay. |
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Post by DIeGo100% on Feb 24, 2017 14:45:54 GMT -5
i play in both android and ios, i think this will be the awful reallity, so sad.
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Feb 24, 2017 14:46:06 GMT -5
I love it when people feel they can predict the future with such confidence that arguing about it is pointless. Obvious troll-bait is obvious... The sun could send a Coronal Mass Ejection our way in a few hours and destroy all advanced technology on the planet, sending the human race back to the stone-age. In which case your guaranteed prediction would not come true. Yes, that is an extreme example, but it's also a response in kind to your extreme posturing. So I gotta ask...  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 14:46:41 GMT -5
Leagues aren't on my OS yet, and I don't know how the system will even work exactly, but I think I will start a new thread about my favorite topic based solely on conjecture. Got it, thanks.
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Post by Ⅎ₹ѺC₭₩ELDEℲ₹ on Feb 24, 2017 14:49:01 GMT -5
Actually, I think that the league system is much like a ratchet mechanism: you can proceed up easier than you can back down...Which is why one needs to decide wisely whether you wish to move up a league. And that decision, the challenge and gold payout will bind you there. Now don't get me wrong, there will be the ability to damage adjust inside your league...But nothing like dropping 4+ league levels to basically terrorize new players.
Have hope.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 14:52:43 GMT -5
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Post by whatttupG on Feb 24, 2017 15:17:42 GMT -5
I'm not getting the connection in the pictures posted here but.. lol at the pilot name and also the ID.. reminds me of that florida plate haha.
Still, besides damon appearing to be pissed off, I would be interested to know how leagues work and if they are going to be just as farm and tank friendly as the pre-league game.
On android here so *cough* its already inside :rolleyes: just hidden/broken/still/again/excuses... and I am very interested in how the structure is going to be gamed. Like rule 34, this tanking business will always apply until its structurally prohibitive by the game design. Since design and execution don't seem to be strong suits for Pixonic, I'm thinking I agree that this routine is here to stay.
It doesn't have to be, the only other game I play has a guild type system but you are systematically prevented from cheating or tanking. Zero scores get kicked out of individual guilds and low score does not get paid anything so its winner take all and loser gets nothing. This alone prevents a whole mess of tanking. Once the reward is steered towards good play, it's amazing all the good play you see.
Pixonic, pretty sure this is not a russian word meaning rocket science.
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Feb 24, 2017 15:26:20 GMT -5
Rocket science is easy compared to building a good and effective matchmaking system. That said, Pixonic's activities may give some evidence that they are not qualified for either. They do seem to be learning, albeit slowly...
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Post by KaneoheGrown on Feb 24, 2017 15:27:28 GMT -5
Pretty simple way to solve this is to change gold payout per match.
*EXAMPLE ONLY*
Recruit - Silver leagues: 1, 1, 1 top damage, 1 beacons.
Gold - Diamond leagues: 2, 1, 1 top damage, 2 beacons.
Expert - Champion leagues: 5, 3, 1 top damage, 5 beacons.
(Or something similar that deters tanking for the sole purpose of farming Au.)
In the end people work off incentives. By removing a major incentive for tanking (for Au) you can help curb the behavior.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 15:38:10 GMT -5
Pretty simple way to solve this is to change gold payout per match. *EXAMPLE ONLY* Recruit - Silver leagues: 1, 1, 1 top damage, 1 beacons. Gold - Diamond leagues: 2, 1, 1 top damage, 2 beacons. Expert - Champion leagues: 5, 3, 1 top damage, 5 beacons. (Or something similar that deters tanking for the sole purpose of farming Au.) In the end people work off incentives. By removing a major incentive for tanking (for Au) you can help curb the behavior. The problem I have with this is that the people who actually need Au the most are the lower levels, while the 9+ crowd already has much of their needed Au gear and really needs Ag for upgrades more. You effectively destroy the lower level players ability to gear up. Sorry, to me this is horrible. |
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Post by KaneoheGrown on Feb 24, 2017 15:57:10 GMT -5
Nah, easy to simply increase Au awards per player level up (since they're one time payouts for only those players).
*Edit: Meaning, give each player 250 au per level up, which translates to 7500 au through level progression. They can still afford premium items (or 5 slot) and are therefore impacted less from match Au reductions.
Lowbies are already screwed out of Au if a tanker ends up in their match (specifically to farm Au) so they're already boned. Tankers (who want the Au) are doing it because it's like an ATM to them at the moment, take away the easy money and they'll go back to where they belong.
Again this is only for tankers going down league for Au. The guys who are just sadists who like beating on the little guy will continue to do so.
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Post by zman on Feb 24, 2017 15:59:58 GMT -5
I don't think we have any confirmation about moving down a league yet, or how much harder that will be than your seed league. We also don't know if there are any level/hanger strength based calculations for seeding leagues either.
If Leagues make it very hard/impossible to go down leagues then there are some limits put on tankers. The ratchet analogy from earlier in the thread fits. If moving down a League is very difficult Tankers will have only one option of spending most of the months bouncing and throwing a third of their games to stay in a low League and then climb up the end of the month for Gold rewards.
We'll likely see some kind incremental approach by Pix to solve the tanker problem. We need to see Leagues in action to really get a handle on what is going on.
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Post by boomsplat on Feb 24, 2017 16:10:46 GMT -5
This is a prediction of what will be the norm post 2.6.1. I am in iOS so Leagues haven't made it here yet.
Tanking will be the norm. You are naïve to think Leagues will fix this, no it will make it worse, a lot worse. Earning gold in the low brackets, especially for well equipped hangars, is easy and Leagues doesn't change this fact.
Gold award for Leagues are only supposed to be given near the end of the month. A dedicated tanker would just tank at the beginning of the League then mad rush up near the end of the League to maximize gold earnings. After which they would just retank down again.
You can rant all you want but this will be the future and tanking is here to stay. From what was shared from android in that brief 5 hour period, it looks like the gold you get for placement vs earning your way up are the same.....so I don't understand why you would tank at the start and then club on your way up. It looks like you only get the tier/league reward once per month so it is not like you can yoyo up and down to get more gold. Please share your expertise on what exactly you base your prediction on? I'm on iOS as well, but I took dara from android users to put out a league gold schedule. My hope is that silver payout is higher at higher leagues as well....so unless you want to tank for the sheer delight of win rate, I'm uncertain what info you have other than concerns and pessimism which I get abound these days. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 16:12:31 GMT -5
Tank. And see what happens. The other tankers are there and suddenly get competitive. If you tank, you'll be back up quicker and losing again. I've seen them struggling to win 300k damage wars. Let em tank and forget about it.
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Post by loren on Feb 24, 2017 17:46:31 GMT -5
This is a prediction of what will be the norm post 2.6.1. I am in iOS so Leagues haven't made it here yet.
Tanking will be the norm. You are naïve to think Leagues will fix this, no it will make it worse, a lot worse. Earning gold in the low brackets, especially for well equipped hangars, is easy and Leagues doesn't change this fact.
Gold award for Leagues are only supposed to be given near the end of the month. A dedicated tanker would just tank at the beginning of the League then mad rush up near the end of the League to maximize gold earnings. After which they would just retank down again.
You can rant all you want but this will be the future and tanking is here to stay. I slept in on release day so I missed the league system all together. From my understanding the league system is just an addon to what we already know of MM. From previous posts it also has the reward system setup as well for entering new leagues, because the system yoyo'd so fast we didn't get a chance to see what the penalties are, or if they have any. I am hoping there is some sort of code to prevent it but we will see. Until they get it running again we can't say for sure one way or the other. Once it is up and running I will test the hell out of it. |
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Post by Thumpmonkey1 on Feb 24, 2017 18:37:45 GMT -5
Have we established that the placement gold happens every month? Because it would make a lot more sense to me if you only got gold once per level per account. To get more gold gotta rise past your previous best...
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Post by notyetnotsosoon on Feb 24, 2017 18:48:30 GMT -5
Recent Red I came across so you can be sure this happened with the new MM... ![]()  He could probably best VOX with those stats, or #newMMtank. Go figure. |
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Post by Replicant on Feb 24, 2017 18:52:23 GMT -5
Have we established that the placement gold happens every month? Because it would make a lot more sense to me if you only got gold once per level per account. To get more gold gotta rise past your previous best... A monthly reset makes the system more responsive to change. If you like your Cossack hanger, you can wait a month and play it without having to destroy your ratings. |
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Post by Thumpmonkey1 on Feb 24, 2017 19:01:18 GMT -5
Have we established that the placement gold happens every month? Because it would make a lot more sense to me if you only got gold once per level per account. To get more gold gotta rise past your previous best... A monthly reset makes the system more responsive to change. If you like your Cossack hanger, you can wait a month and play it without having to destroy your ratings. I get that leagues reset, but does the placement gold reset? Because thats an awful lot of gold to spread out to the community every month - seems like theyd be losing a lot of purchases... |
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Feb 24, 2017 19:06:28 GMT -5
seems like theyd be losing a lot of purchases... "A loss leader (also leader) is a pricing strategy where a product is sold at a price below its market cost to stimulate other sales of more profitable goods or services." Uhm, yeah, Pixo has this rather business-like reputation...  By creating a more competitive environment with a larger reward pool component, they will also stimulate the desire to purchase premium currency for better and improved equipment. Raise your hand if you've ever used Au to get more Ag... Yeah me too. |
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Post by KaneoheGrown on Feb 24, 2017 19:25:02 GMT -5
A monthly reset makes the system more responsive to change. If you like your Cossack hanger, you can wait a month and play it without having to destroy your ratings. I get that leagues reset, but does the placement gold reset? Because thats an awful lot of gold to spread out to the community every month - seems like theyd be losing a lot of purchases... This is why (in my view) Pix is actually pretty generous with Au pay for league placement/advancement. If the amounts remain where they are (as of the brief time we got to see leagues), champion level players will reap 2k+ gold a month by simply staying and playing. |
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Post by whatttupG on Feb 24, 2017 19:37:34 GMT -5
Rocket science is easy compared to building a good and effective matchmaking system. That said, Pixonic's activities may give some evidence that they are not qualified for either. They do seem to be learning, albeit slowly... I played six matches today and won 5.. which is maybe good game play but is probably more luck with the team I drew.. everyone of them had at least one drop, some two, and the yo-yo effect was in full swing still because I had double the score of the nearest guy in some, then was in 4th on others. All wins but very illustrative of how variable the crowd around me is. Again, ECU cossack should not be on my screen but there he was, hopping around trying to get one beacon. (he didn't) I find it hard to believe that a decent MM is impossible to get right or close, if you write software for a living, you should technically be kinda good at it and so far from the user side of this, I can't say what I see is good. What I see makes me think I could have written a steamer like this myself and I am no code cutter to say the least. |
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Post by peterw35 on Feb 24, 2017 20:28:20 GMT -5
Since the new league system is 90% similar to clash of clans. (I personally believe they used coc as a model for this new league system.) We can expect all clash of clans League behaviors:
1. TT players will be available in every league. (coc players are free to move up and down the trophies.) because they have the power and strength to go up and down. But lower strength players won't be able to move up easily.
2. There will be a "vacuum" just before master and champion league. It is because semi-pro players who want to play comfortably will drop trophies and those who wants to compete to the ultimate will go up. This effect will cause climbers alot of pain while moving up to legends League.
3. THE CLOUD will be in the top leagues. Meaning it's ganna take extra long time to match opponents in the very top because there are very few. If pix wants to reduce the cloud effect then they will need to open up the selection criteria. Then top TT players will match up with players in lower league. Which will cause lower league players wanting to drop more trophies. This will increase the vacuum effect.
From a legend coc players prospective...
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Post by Pilot Moby_dic on Feb 24, 2017 20:42:37 GMT -5
This is a prediction of what will be the norm post 2.6.1. I am in iOS so Leagues haven't made it here yet.
Tanking will be the norm. You are naïve to think Leagues will fix this, no it will make it worse, a lot worse. Earning gold in the low brackets, especially for well equipped hangars, is easy and Leagues doesn't change this fact.
Gold award for Leagues are only supposed to be given near the end of the month. A dedicated tanker would just tank at the beginning of the League then mad rush up near the end of the League to maximize gold earnings. After which they would just retank down again.
You can rant all you want but this will be the future and tanking is here to stay. A long-term prediction from someone who's played a few hundred games - LOL - funny guy |
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Post by mechbond on Feb 24, 2017 21:14:55 GMT -5
It's not going to be doom and gloom, just more of the same or even less tanking.
For example, I had 540k average dmg before qualifying for leagues. I tanked my 5 games by doing 770 dmg every game, losing 3 and winning 2. This should put me in beginner tier but it didn't, I ended up in high silver (which is about right with my 7/8 hangar).
This means your average dmg, probably even your hangar and lvl have an effect on where you are placed, besides just those 5 qualifiying games.
So to skew the mm you'd have to tank your average dmg just before leagues end, then tank 5 qualifying games.
If you can qualify for say, 1500+ gold then it pays of to just do that if leagues reset every week. If it's a month long then it makes more sense to start from the bottom and work your way up.
In any case, tanking from say, gold to bronze, would take at least 60 losess while being last on losing team. Probably more like 100+ considering other factors. And thats from bottom of gold to top of bronze.
I think gold for placing should be split in half and each half given at start and end of season to lower the number of tankers.
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Post by Dredd77 on Feb 25, 2017 0:53:46 GMT -5
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By creating a more competitive environment with a larger reward pool component, they will also stimulate the desire to purchase premium currency for better and improved equipment.
