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Post by ou812gr8m8 on Mar 17, 2017 6:47:23 GMT -5
Ain't ganna fix tankers unfortunately as there's not enough incentive to go up. Also I don't understand how they think it's impossible for higher league players to drop down to bronse Good spot. If you can lose points in Bronze, but not Private or Recruit, the lowest a tanker could go would be Private. "We adjusted point distribution in lower leagues. Players in Recruit and Private leagues don’t go down in ranking anymore — we consider these tiers as a training field for new players to get a general feel of the game." "In Bronze things get a little spicier: you start losing some points for losses but still earn much more for wins." |
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Grimsunder
Destrier
Posts: 120
Karma: 46
Pilot name: ĢŘÎM
Platform: Android
Clan: Steel Wolf
League: Diamond
Favorite robot: Griffin
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Post by Grimsunder on Mar 17, 2017 7:02:18 GMT -5
I think this is a step in the right direction. Finally gunna make these morons in their precious treb/trident furys ditch that turd to help the team actually win!
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Post by notyetnotsosoon on Mar 17, 2017 7:22:53 GMT -5
^ Question remains, what's the incentive to stay with the big bois?
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♠♥ fubar ♦♣
Destrier
Posts: 44
Karma: 42
Pilot name: ♠♥ fubar ♦♣
Platform: Android
Clan: Al Bayrak
League: Master
Server Region: Europe
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Post by ♠♥ fubar ♦♣ on Mar 17, 2017 7:49:41 GMT -5
Yes I just saw the new system update. I think Pixonic have gotten the message. Hallelujah!
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lch1
Destrier
Posts: 47
Karma: 5
Pilot name: lch1
Platform: Android
Clan: CZ&SK
League: Silver
Server Region: Europe
Favorite robot: Lancelot, Carnage, Galahad
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Post by lch1 on Mar 17, 2017 8:04:33 GMT -5
It's really not good change!!!! When I'm best in team full of lossers, that give me matchmaking, maybe I'm best then first player of winning team, but my team lose, I will lost points? What is it?
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Passenger
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Platform: Android
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Post by Passenger on Mar 17, 2017 8:20:15 GMT -5
Hello,
Sometimes a team lose a battel just because someone lost connection or basy so atlist before the players how play well will not get negative however now even if you team is missing someone and you play well you will get negative points !!!
I think this is not logical
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Post by AηɗυηєɗнєƖ [ǀƬA] on Mar 17, 2017 9:14:44 GMT -5
Hello, Sometimes a team lose a battel just because someone lost connection or basy so atlist before the players how play well will not get negative however now even if you team is missing someone and you play well you will get negative points !!! I think this is not logical that will time to you from time to time, and will happen to the team you fight against from time to time, balancing out. The logic is that, like this, capper guys, who often are determinant for actually winning a game, are not penalized with low points in victories and huge negative points in defeats. |
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Post by ΜØØSE on Mar 17, 2017 10:03:00 GMT -5
^ Question remains, what's the incentive to stay with the big bois? Good point. The new point distribution is good and all, but I think Pixonic is completely missing the fact that I have no reason whatsoever to give a flying 「fluffernutter」 about what league I'm in. The incentive is miniscule. And because of that, I don't give a 「dookie」 about cups or points. I want silver to upgrade my weapons. So I am still going to not give a 「dookie」 about beacons and just blow up robots. Even with the 50% win bonus, it's more productive to destroy reds than chase beacons. |
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Post by Ⅎ₹ѺC₭₩ELDEℲ₹ on Mar 17, 2017 10:06:10 GMT -5
Ain't ganna fix tankers unfortunately as there's not enough incentive to go up. Also I don't understand how they think it's impossible for higher league players to drop down to bronse Good spot. If you can lose points in Bronze, but not Private or Recruit, the lowest a tanker could go would be Private. "We adjusted point distribution in lower leagues. Players in Recruit and Private leagues don’t go down in ranking anymore — we consider these tiers as a training field for new players to get a general feel of the game." "In Bronze things get a little spicier: you start losing some points for losses but still earn much more for wins." Actually they can just tweak this going forward like a ratchet...Bronze could conceivably be a "rise only" league making silver the lowest a Tanker could go...I say turn the screws hard... |
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Post by ShutUpAndSmokeMyWeed on Mar 17, 2017 10:11:45 GMT -5
Good spot. If you can lose points in Bronze, but not Private or Recruit, the lowest a tanker could go would be Private. "We adjusted point distribution in lower leagues. Players in Recruit and Private leagues don’t go down in ranking anymore — we consider these tiers as a training field for new players to get a general feel of the game." "In Bronze things get a little spicier: you start losing some points for losses but still earn much more for wins." Actually they can just tweak this going forward like a ratchet...Bronze could conceivably be a "rise only" league making silver the lowest a Tanker could go...I say turn the screws hard... Keep in mind that this pushes the noobs up towards silver too. Don't screw them over too hard ? |
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phoenix232
GI. Patton
Posts: 132
Karma: 74
Pilot name: Phoenix-232
League: Diamond
Server Region: North America
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Post by phoenix232 on Mar 17, 2017 10:21:51 GMT -5
Hello, Sometimes a team lose a battel just because someone lost connection or basy so atlist before the players how play well will not get negative however now even if you team is missing someone and you play well you will get negative points !!! I think this is not logical that will time to you from time to time, and will happen to the team you fight against from time to time, balancing out. The logic is that, like this, capper guys, who often are determinant for actually winning a game, are not penalized with low points in victories and huge negative points in defeats. Nope, just the huge negative points in defeats. And the guys that push hard to win despite looking like a loss? They get penalized now, too! It's like one step forward, two steps back with Pixonic.. *Sigh* |
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Still Learning
Destrier
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Posts: 21
Karma: 14
Pilot name: Still Learning
Platform: iOS
Clan: 44 Mag
League: Gold
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Post by Still Learning on Mar 17, 2017 10:35:11 GMT -5
Won't this change just cause more people to quit mid-battle? If it's obvious that your team is going to lose, you can stick around and lost points, or you can quit and lose points. At the very least, if you stop dropping your bots, you can spare the silver repair costs and end the game more quickly.
There should be an incentive to fight for solo players. The way Pixonic just had it was perfect. If I was playing solo, and my team lost, and I lost rating points, it was because I *deserved* it. If my team lost, and I earned rating points, it was because I *earned* them.
Now, if I'm facing a better team, there is really zero incentive to put up a fight. Finishing first for my team -- even if I grab 8 beacons -- won't matter if my team is over-matched.
Why would I then want to play another game as a solo player?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2017 10:44:47 GMT -5
At this point, Pix is just throwing 「dookie」 against the wall and seeing what sticks. So now we'll be going back to hangars heavy with cappers? I'm sure its great for those who have a whole array of high end bots to mix and match, but having just finally gotten a heavy lineup to 9 it makes me want to throw my 「fluffernutter」ing tablet out the window.
The good thing about the previous method was that it encouraged you to play the match out. I ate a -12 in my first match in this new system that I probably wouldnt have bothered putting energy into as my team was crap against a red lineup that included a maxed hangar.
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Post by AηɗυηєɗнєƖ [ǀƬA] on Mar 17, 2017 11:05:27 GMT -5
The good thing about the previous method was that it encouraged you to play the match out. I ate a -12 in my first match in this new system that I probably wouldnt have bothered putting energy into as my team was crap against a red lineup that included a maxed hangar. This, yes. The first two losers should get 0 points to give an incentive to play it out regardless. |
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Post by kotawolf on Mar 17, 2017 11:06:30 GMT -5
Hmm... The update says it rewards for beacon capping... Yet again there is no "bonus" for out performing everyone on beacons. Just damage based as usual. Now if I out perform the winning team on beacons but my team blows it I will lose even more points since I am not working on damage. This is just as broken... At least I had a chance to get a few points in the last MM even if my team was losing. Also the team split for squads just blows... There is no incentive to squad up if we lose or win we still get averaged points.... So if I pull the team to a win but my squad is in the last places I lose a huge amount of points. Or if my team is higher tier and I suck due to bot level difference I am going to cost them points? The point system spread is ok I guess... But there needs to be incentive for beacon capping. Then at least if i pull low position wise but have called the most beacons I don't lose so many points. In alot of games I find myself pulling 1st or 2nd on my team for beacons but lower for damage because I am trying to push for the win. Maybe I should just say screw it as far as leagues go.
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Post by Scuzzbopper on Mar 17, 2017 11:06:49 GMT -5
Won't this change just cause more people to quit mid-battle? If it's obvious that your team is going to lose, you can stick around and lost points, or you can quit and lose points. At the very least, if you stop dropping your bots, you can spare the silver repair costs and end the game more quickly. .... Well, maybe. You have to balance what's left in your hanger against what you see on the field, what the beacon timer looks like, and what you think you have done. If you have a solid brawler left and you think you land damage on that fatty Raijin then perhaps it's worth the silver to try. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2017 11:17:20 GMT -5
The good thing about the previous method was that it encouraged you to play the match out. I ate a -12 in my first match in this new system that I probably wouldnt have bothered putting energy into as my team was crap against a red lineup that included a maxed hangar. This, yes. The first two losers should get 0 points to give an incentive to play it out regardless. First 5 matches under the new system all losses with the team crumbling away early. There's a -66 point hit. I can score damage and take beacons, but I can't will my side to victory if they don't want to try. I think idling at spawn to see if the team is actually going to try to win might make sense - taking the last place points instead of wasting the time, energy and frustration is probably a good exchange. |
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Post by AηɗυηєɗнєƖ [ǀƬA] on Mar 17, 2017 11:21:13 GMT -5
Yeah. I'm at 2-2 s far, but the last game it was evident one dropped out as soon as he realized we were going to be playing 5 vs 6. Annoying.
Clan squads are going to be even more relevant now... no tankers and people who will play until the end with you anyway.
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[AurN] perfectlyGoodInk
Aurora Clan Moderator
Posts: 729
Karma: 556
Platform: Android
Clan: leader of Aurora Nova [AurN]
League: Gold
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Bishop from Aliens, although WALL-E is a close second
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Post by [AurN] perfectlyGoodInk on Mar 17, 2017 11:32:28 GMT -5
This is, at best, only a slight improvement, one that smacks of panic and feeling the need to throw the crowd a bone.
The distribution of how much a player helps their team varies from match to match. Sometimes, the top player on the losing team deserved a win and was robbed by a teammate who quit or disconnected. Sometimes, they deserved a loss because they underperformed. Sometimes, the the last player on the winning team did nothing and was carried by their teammates, sometimes they were vital to the effort because it was a close win.
A decent system would look at the team's production distribution, where production is measured in both beacons and damage. If it's pretty even, the whole team should be rewarded/punished equally. If there are outliers, reward/punish them disproportionately. You could go fancier than that and look at the quantiles, but this alone would be a vast improvement over this hack of a league system that really feels like it was designed by an exec or marketing person that has never actually played the game.
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Post by mechtout on Mar 17, 2017 11:44:32 GMT -5
Imo giving trophies to the top 2 players on the losing team rewards the guys that kick back and go for damage. You cant make everyone care about trophies but hopefully the majority of War Robots players do, then this is in the right direction.
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Post by petevb on Mar 17, 2017 11:45:58 GMT -5
Won't this change just cause more people to quit mid-battle? If it's obvious that your team is going to lose, you can stick around and lost points, or you can quit and lose points. In my experience in Champions the new matchmaker has gotten good at producing evenly matched teams, so blow-outs have become rare. A side effect has been many more late-game swings where the team that's well behind on beacons comes back. Given this I'd rarely consider dropping and accepting a loss of between 24 and 36 points... assuming I care about points. If I don't, but instead care about gold or silver, then maybe I would quit. Players in Champions tend too be less motivated by the money- we've all got our five slots and bots. Thus I think this change will dramatically and instantly improve the play up at our level- no more 40% win-rate campers topping Legends. At lower levels I suspect there may still be perverse incentives to quit early or otherwise game the system to try and move forwards. I can see why Pix wouldn't do the obvious and reward league points for beacons- unless you also took them away from other players you'd have total points inflation, slowly pushing all players up the ranks. I can also see why they introduced the first version (shakes out more quickly) and how this is an improvement (better aligns scoring with the game objectives). However I think there's still a piece missing... possibly connecting monetary incentives to the scoring system itself? I'll give it some thought, because while I don't need to do Pix's job for them I suspect we could probably do better... |
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Post by ΜØØSE on Mar 17, 2017 11:53:52 GMT -5
I just think it's funny that Pixonic thinks I give a 「dookie」 about cups, or climbing leagues. I'll still be chasing silver with a heavy hangar.
Don't get me wrong, I try to win - but it is secondary to grabbing silver.
Am I the only one that feels this way?
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[AurN] perfectlyGoodInk
Aurora Clan Moderator
Posts: 729
Karma: 556
Platform: Android
Clan: leader of Aurora Nova [AurN]
League: Gold
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Bishop from Aliens, although WALL-E is a close second
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Post by [AurN] perfectlyGoodInk on Mar 17, 2017 12:02:04 GMT -5
I can see why Pix wouldn't do the obvious and reward league points for beacons- unless you also took them away from other players you'd have total points inflation, slowly pushing all players up the ranks. Preventing point inflation is actually easy. Just adjust the damage awards downward until the per-match reward league rewards stays the same. I posted this earlier on the Reddit AMA thread: |
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Rumblebub
Recruit
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Pilot name: Rumblebub
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Post by Rumblebub on Mar 17, 2017 12:02:34 GMT -5
So Pix is admitting that beacons are the main factor when it comes to the results of a match. I think we all knew this, but it's good to see them do the same.
However, I don't see how the second statement is true here. There are still no rewards for actually capturing beacons. You get rewards for winning, and get more of them for being higher in the damage numbers. Beacons still don't really matter when it comes to league points.
If a player caps 5 beacons in a match (for example), but does mediocre damage, he gets less points than the guy who sits back and snipes to top the damage numbers while not touching a single beacon. Did you capture the majority of beacons for your team? Makes no difference on how you rank for the match (and thus the points you get). Even worse, did you fight to cap a bunch of beacons and end up on the losing side. You'll likely lose more points than some of your teammates who didn't give a crap about playing as a team at all.
I'm not saying these changes are worse than how things have been. But they're not really better, and – more importantly – they completely sidestep the main issue.
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Post by mechtout on Mar 17, 2017 12:11:42 GMT -5
Capping beacons should be a team effort, not an individual stat. If a blue and i free up a beacon, i let him cap it depending on what bots we have, and move on to join blues in the next objective.
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Post by Ⅎ₹ѺC₭₩ELDEℲ₹ on Mar 17, 2017 12:11:51 GMT -5
Won't this change just cause more people to quit mid-battle? If it's obvious that your team is going to lose, you can stick around and lost points, or you can quit and lose points. In my experience in Champions the new matchmaker has gotten good at producing evenly matched teams, so blow-outs have become rare. A side effect has been many more late-game swings where the team that's well behind on beacons comes back. Given this I'd rarely consider dropping and accepting a loss of between 24 and 36 points... assuming I care about points. If I don't, but instead care about gold or silver, then maybe I would quit. Players in Champions tend too be less motivated by the money- we've all got our five slots and bots. Thus I think this change will dramatically and instantly improve the play up at our level- no more 40% win-rate campers topping Legends. At lower levels I suspect there may still be perverse incentives to quit early or otherwise game the system to try and move forwards. I can see why Pix wouldn't do the obvious and reward league points for beacons- unless you also took them away from other players you'd have total points inflation, slowly pushing all players up the ranks. I can also see why they introduced the first version (shakes out more quickly) and how this is an improvement (better aligns scoring with the game objectives). However I think there's still a piece missing... possibly connecting monetary incentives to the scoring system itself? I'll give it some thought, because while I don't need to do Pix's job for them I suspect we could probably do better... This..I cant tell you the amount of cussing and anger stripping I do when the other team flips all the beacons red towards the end of a game we were clearly winning...I wanna tear my pants off right now and throw them at the wall just thinking about it.. |
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vision
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Post by vision on Mar 17, 2017 12:16:10 GMT -5
So if some 「smart person」 on your team decided to leave the battle and made you lose in a 4v6 or 5v6 situation, you are forced to lose atleast 12 points no matter how hard you try to win. What?! It doesn't make any sense to me.
It is not my fault that the players leave at the start of the battle, why should i get such heavy penalty even when I try my best?
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phoenix232
GI. Patton
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Pilot name: Phoenix-232
League: Diamond
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Post by phoenix232 on Mar 17, 2017 12:16:52 GMT -5
Attachment DeletedReds G3 - 5 Avrg level 9 (Grouped) G1 - 5 Avrg level 11 G1 - 5 Avrg level 10.5 G1 - 4 Avrg level 10.5 (Grouped) G1 - 5 Avrg level 9.5 (Grouped) G3 - 5 Avrg level 10 (Grouped) Vs Blues G2 - 5 Avrg level 10 (Grouped) D3 - 5 Avrg Level 8 S2 - 4 Avrg Level 10 (Grouped) S3 - 4 Avrg Level 6 (Grouped) S2 - 4 Avrg Level 7 (Grouped) S3 - 4 Avrg Level 7 (Grouped) <-- Not even level 30! 26 Bots vs 29 Bots Average weapon level 9.6 vs 12.1 I couldn't be asked to calculate the difference in leagues. It's high. Low silver vs High gold tells me that already. What do we learn from this? 1) Matchmaker can't handle group matches properly. My guess is it grouped based off the top person only, and ignored the rest of the players in the group. 2) MM is perfectly willing to group wide variations in league just to generate a match. I.e. Diamond players being forced to play alongside Silver 3) The recent change is to loser points is *COMPLETE AND UTTER GARBAGE*. Particularly for the Solo players that get forced to fill holes in groups, and especially when the groups themselves are so poorly matched. Pix wanted proof that the MM was throwing people of differing leagues against each other. Well guess what, there's some right there staring you in the face. And woe be to the solo-queue players who get stuck in the middle of MM's inability to properly match groups. Until they can fix that, they need to revert their changes, or at the very least drastically reduce the penalty that top losing players get. It's a joke, and the punchline is going to be a continuing trend of players leaving the game.
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vision
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Post by vision on Mar 17, 2017 12:20:40 GMT -5
I can see why Pix wouldn't do the obvious and reward league points for beacons- unless you also took them away from other players you'd have total points inflation, slowly pushing all players up the ranks. Preventing point inflation is actually easy. Just adjust the damage awards downward until the per-match reward league rewards stays the same. I posted this earlier on the Reddit AMA thread: I totally agree with this. That's a way better solution to the current issue. |
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Post by hyderier on Mar 17, 2017 12:34:51 GMT -5
Hmm... The update says it rewards for beacon capping... Yet again there is no "bonus" for out performing everyone on beacons. You think just capping those beacons gets you a win? Nah, it's still those damage dealers who allow your team to keep even the side beacons, not to mention the center beacon. Top beacon capper can be a liability for the team too, if it means 6 heavy reds steamroll over just 5 blues. I think the new point distribution is very fair towards top beacon cappers! |
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