AlphaBonza
Recruit
Posts: 7
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Pilot name: AlphaBonza
Platform: Android
Clan: Erstschlag (16132)
Favorite robot: Plasmahad
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Post by AlphaBonza on Feb 21, 2017 11:41:01 GMT -5
You know the situations when one or more Furys get a dominant position? Then making you rage constantly because your team hardly makes progress towards the center?
For this situations I keep a Griff (Hydra/Spiral) on my fifth slot. Really only as an anti Trident fighter because I hate them so much. I am pretty successful with shooting the Homings from cover, since the huuuge, slow Fury cant easily find cover from them. And if the do, they are mostly unable to put pressure your team anymore.
In most cases I start by running for beacons with Stalker or Galahad. Then, when I recognize some anoying furys, I get my Hydras and 「fluffernutter」 them off. As soon as I finished them, I mostly sacrafice my Griff, if there are no suitable targets anymore. This is because you cannot really put up significant pressure with them (except for snow map maybe).
The thing is, that I hardly noticed anyone recommending this Robot for anti sniper. I know Hydras are lame in any other context but against tridents I find them very comfortable.
What do you think? Am I just too noob too see the better option?
Maybe I should notice that sniping is not my playstyle, so I do not like the nashorn or molot better, since I would not want to keep playing them after killing those ugly Furys.
Please let me know your opinion about this Griffin setup against Fury.
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Post by miscanthus on Feb 21, 2017 14:19:53 GMT -5
Last test server I messed around with Hydras quite a bit. I put them on the Griffin, Fujin and Doc. All three set ups were successful against Trident Furies. I probably enjoyed the Doc the most, closely followed by the Griffin. The Fujin just wasn't my play style.
After I harassed/killed any enemy Furies I would ditch my Hydra bot. They didn't seem as effective agaisnt other mechs. Anything with a shield will ignore you and faster bots will run for cover.
Not sure if I would consistently run Hydras on live just to combat Furies. I hate to use a hangar slot just to negate one possible enemy configuration.
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Thump
Destrier
Posts: 74
Karma: 41
Pilot name: Thump
Platform: Android
League: Silver
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Post by Thump on Feb 21, 2017 14:41:15 GMT -5
I have felt the same way. I purchased Hydras recently for this purpose but only have them at level 7 so far and I am only just now seeing them have any effect. Most hangars I see are 9/9. I feel like I am leveling a weapon that may be less useful at Gold tier though.
Personally I have chosen to not rush to Gold tier. I choose to enjoy the journey. So I have leveled many bot and weapons that I may not use later: Rogatka, Boas, Gepards for example. I have opted NOT to purchase a Gekko or a Trebuchet.
So my thought is if you get a level of satisfaction suppressing those Furies, go for it. You could also try Molot MK2s. Range is 800m, just outside of Trident range.
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AlphaBonza
Recruit
Posts: 7
Karma: 0
Pilot name: AlphaBonza
Platform: Android
Clan: Erstschlag (16132)
Favorite robot: Plasmahad
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Post by AlphaBonza on Feb 21, 2017 19:07:46 GMT -5
[...] Not sure if I would consistently run Hydras on live just to combat Furies. I hate to use a hangar slot just to negate one possible enemy configuration. Thanks for the reply. I see your point. But in my experience Furies come around pretty often. In some cirsumstances i can even get a carnage sniper with hydras (but not very fast...). What is your favorite overall anti-sniper? Carnage Zeus is the only alternative I have in stock. Having 4 Knifes and 1 Anti-sniper fits best with my playstyle... |
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AlphaBonza
Recruit
Posts: 7
Karma: 0
Pilot name: AlphaBonza
Platform: Android
Clan: Erstschlag (16132)
Favorite robot: Plasmahad
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Post by AlphaBonza on Feb 21, 2017 19:17:09 GMT -5
[...] So my thought is if you get a level of satisfaction suppressing those Furies, go for it. You could also try Molot MK2s. Range is 800m, just outside of Trident range. Thanks for the reply. Haha yes I really get a loooot of satisfaction by killing furys. Molot on 800m? It sounds like I need a whole lot of time to do sufficient damage to Fury.... and I'm uncoverd too, which is making me a target for other snipers. Not that I tried yet. You have good experience with it? |
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Thump
Destrier
Posts: 74
Karma: 41
Pilot name: Thump
Platform: Android
League: Silver
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Post by Thump on Feb 21, 2017 19:33:34 GMT -5
You are correct. I have L8 Molot MK2s and Light Molots L6 oin a Griffin. Frustratingly long to kill the 8/9 Furies I see. It does push them away however. Works on Carnages just as well though. I think i need to get these or the Hydras to 10 before I feel they really impact play.
The good thing about the Molots though is that they are faster killing than the Hydras. Much more effective, but yes you are in line of sight. I have killed other bots, Griffs, with them but takes 2-3 rounds. They fire solid for like 20 seconds but then have a cool down. Still though...800 meters. They never expect it and cannot touch you. Adrian Chong has done videos on how to kill Trident Furies. That is where I got the idea.
I must say that for a weapon that gets little respect on this forum from TT players, I see a lot of Hydras in my matches and they do cause problems. Not like Plasma, but they take chunks out of you. I had a Fujin sit in the middle of Yamantau today, shielding mates and chucking Hydras very effectively.
I have gone back and forth. My leveling priorities change after I get pissed off at the Furies! lol. I refuse to buy Trebs or Gekkos but need something to deal longer range damage. I am inclined to bring up my Hydras to 10, but ugh that will take a week or more.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 20:25:31 GMT -5
What level weapons are we talking. Mine are at 9, and I think they lack punch for a Fury, and a few others
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Post by BLYTHE on Feb 21, 2017 21:47:46 GMT -5
"I hate to use a hangar slot just to negate one possible enemy configuration." Exactly. Also bear in mind you were on the test server running maxed out hydras. Also there are often more than one Fury in TT. There are better ways to deal with Furies (many of which have been discussed here) than having to waste a slot on a build like that. |
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88generalblue
GI. Patton
Posts: 137
Karma: 76
Platform: Android
Clan: Wik2
League: Silver
Favorite robot: Gareth w/ Taran, Aphids
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Post by 88generalblue on Feb 21, 2017 22:27:42 GMT -5
"I hate to use a hangar slot just to negate one possible enemy configuration." Exactly. Also bear in mind you were on the test server running maxed out hydras. Also there are often more than one Fury in TT. There are better ways to deal with Furies (many of which have been discussed here) than having to waste a slot on a build like that. there are only two types of bots once you hit a certain level. A) Trident Carnage/Fury B) Bots to combat Tridents I can't remember a recent match with I didn't run into either a carnage or fury (sometimes Raijin?) packing Tridents, they are far too effective. I find that the best defense is having one of my own, and i simply prioritize hitting them first with my tridents. of course they return fire once you start shooting them, but as long as you can hit them first, you'll likely win Lloyd Le-Mar aka Ace Thunder, "You cannot hope to overcome, only to become" Cheers, |
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Post by BLYTHE on Feb 21, 2017 23:22:05 GMT -5
Exactly. Also bear in mind you were on the test server running maxed out hydras. Also there are often more than one Fury in TT. There are better ways to deal with Furies (many of which have been discussed here) than having to waste a slot on a build like that. there are only two types of bots once you hit a certain level. A) Trident Carnage/Fury B) Bots to combat Tridents I can't remember a recent match with I didn't run into either a carnage or fury (sometimes Raijin?) packing Tridents, they are far too effective. I find that the best defense is having one of my own, and i simply prioritize hitting them first with my tridents. of course they return fire once you start shooting them, but as long as you can hit them first, you'll likely win Lloyd Le-Mar aka Ace Thunder, "You cannot hope to overcome, only to become" Cheers, Of course the Trident fury is very effective--wouldn't you want it to be effective if you've put in the effort and saved Au from 41 days of playing? Many of the gold bots are vastly more superior. You can run a poor man's Fury or grind for a fury--you're choice. But don't expect the game to have a level field--certain bots/weapons will have an advantage over others. If everything were equal, then there wouldn't be a game, people would get bored, Pix wouldn't make any money, and we wouldn't be here right now. Some of us have been here long enough to know there's always something to complain about: remember the dreaded rhino? Don't see him all that often anymore it seems. Lancelot's OP, then shelved because of aphids, back again because of anciles...etc. I think if people worked toward a more balanced hangar: power runners, KF, mid range then this disdain for furies will be reduced. If one runs an exclusively KF hangar and you're on an open map then it'll be more challenging even if you're in a Lancelot. Another option is to join a clan where certain pilots are assigned specifically to focus their efforts to harass and destroy Furies--that way not everyone has to waste a slot. |
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Post by Rippington Steele on Feb 22, 2017 2:31:33 GMT -5
Not saying that you are wrong, but as a counterpoint, one might also argue that fewer players would bail had they not been crushed so easily by the constant influx of overpowered bots and weapons. Also we might consider that everyone who has played for 41 days and saved Au does not want to spend it on a Trident Fury. Why should the Trident Fury option be privileged above all others by having a mid range weapon that decimates HP, reloads in 7 seconds, and a splash radius that basically eliminates the need for aim? Perhaps I should start a thread in here on Game Theory. It would do a lot of us some good to understand the fundamental logic of competition, rational behavior, and the evolution of strategy based on a learned probability distribution of in-game scenarios. If we were all on the same page in these regards then it might benefit the forward advancement of our forum discussions significantly. To your second point, just look at any number of games, Chess for instance. Chess has been played for centuries between two evenly matched players, and while there have been changes to the rules in terms of the functions of pieces, chess has never had the addition of new features available for purchase, and yet it has remained one of the most popular games in the world. So you're probably right that a lot of players would get bored without the additions, but how many more players are frustrated by the constant issue of flippant alterations to the game's fundamental makeup, and lack of overall balance and even-handed matching. How much did Pix lose over the course of the 2.5 update? How much did the Gep Clubbing Era hurt the long term earning potential of the game by warding off Noobs? We may never have the answers, but its good for us to ask the questions on both sides nonetheless. Cheers! -R.I.P. |
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Post by sonofsam on Feb 22, 2017 2:49:44 GMT -5
Last test server I messed around with Hydras quite a bit. I put them on the Griffin, Fujin and Doc. All three set ups were successful against Trident Furies. I probably enjoyed the Doc the most, closely followed by the Griffin. The Fujin just wasn't my play style. After I harassed/killed any enemy Furies I would ditch my Hydra bot. They didn't seem as effective agaisnt other mechs. Anything with a shield will ignore you and faster bots will run for cover. Not sure if I would consistently run Hydras on live just to combat Furies. I hate to use a hangar slot just to negate one possible enemy configuration. Lol I tried a Noricum Patton against the Tri-Furys on the test server it seemed to anger them quite well. About half life they would eject and I could expect a close encounter with the same player in a fast bot really soon afterwards. |
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Post by BLYTHE on Feb 22, 2017 3:22:43 GMT -5
Not saying that you are wrong, but as a counterpoint, one might also argue that fewer players would bail had they not been crushed so easily by the constant influx of overpowered bots and weapons. Also we might consider that everyone who has played for 41 days and saved Au does not want to spend it on a Trident Fury. Why should the Trident Fury option be privileged above all others by having a mid range weapon that decimates HP, reloads in 7 seconds, and a splash radius that basically eliminates the need for aim? Perhaps I should start a thread in here on Game Theory. It would do a lot of us some good to understand the fundamental logic of competition, rational behavior, and the evolution of strategy based on a learned probability distribution of in-game scenarios. If we were all on the same page in these regards then it might benefit the forward advancement of our forum discussions significantly. To your second point, just look at any number of games, Chess for instance. Chess has been played for centuries between two evenly matched players, and while there have been changes to the rules in terms of the functions of pieces, chess has never had the addition of new features available for purchase, and yet it has remained one of the most popular games in the world. So you're probably right that a lot of players would get bored without the additions, but how many more players are frustrated by the constant issue of flippant alterations to the game's fundamental makeup, and lack of overall balance and even-handed matching. How much did Pix lose over the course of the 2.5 update? How much did the Gep Clubbing Era hurt the long term earning potential of the game by warding off Noobs? We may never have the answers, but its good for us to ask the questions on both sides nonetheless. Cheers! -R.I.P. Surely, you can't blame the TT fury for people bailing. That the MM's problem. Consider that trident furies have always been a bane in TT that we've all had to deal with. It wasn't until recently that more are whinging about them. I suspect this was because of MM 2.5 when a lot of people were unsuspectingly pushed up the tiers. And it's not a mystery why people would want one. For those who opt to build a balanced and optimized hangar you naturally want the best power runner, KN, MRS, etc. Many TT guys here have at least one. I can't imagine what would happen if Pix made the difference between bots and weapons merely cosmetic. Not many would play it. And balance is entirely relative and largely depends on which end of the barrel you're on. |
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Post by Rippington Steele on Feb 22, 2017 3:41:01 GMT -5
Not saying that you are wrong, but as a counterpoint, one might also argue that fewer players would bail had they not been crushed so easily by the constant influx of overpowered bots and weapons. Also we might consider that everyone who has played for 41 days and saved Au does not want to spend it on a Trident Fury. Why should the Trident Fury option be privileged above all others by having a mid range weapon that decimates HP, reloads in 7 seconds, and a splash radius that basically eliminates the need for aim? Perhaps I should start a thread in here on Game Theory. It would do a lot of us some good to understand the fundamental logic of competition, rational behavior, and the evolution of strategy based on a learned probability distribution of in-game scenarios. If we were all on the same page in these regards then it might benefit the forward advancement of our forum discussions significantly. To your second point, just look at any number of games, Chess for instance. Chess has been played for centuries between two evenly matched players, and while there have been changes to the rules in terms of the functions of pieces, chess has never had the addition of new features available for purchase, and yet it has remained one of the most popular games in the world. So you're probably right that a lot of players would get bored without the additions, but how many more players are frustrated by the constant issue of flippant alterations to the game's fundamental makeup, and lack of overall balance and even-handed matching. How much did Pix lose over the course of the 2.5 update? How much did the Gep Clubbing Era hurt the long term earning potential of the game by warding off Noobs? We may never have the answers, but its good for us to ask the questions on both sides nonetheless. Cheers! -R.I.P. Surely, you can't blame the TT fury for people bailing. That the MM's problem. Consider that trident furies have always been a bane in TT that we've all had to deal with. It wasn't until recently that more are whinging about them. I suspect this was because of MM 2.5 when a lot of people were unsuspectingly pushed up the tiers. And it's not a mystery why people would want one. For those who opt to build a balanced and optimized hangar you naturally want the best power runner, KN, MRS, etc. Many TT guys here have at least one. I can't imagine what would happen if Pix made the difference between bots and weapons merely cosmetic. Not many would play it. And balance is entirely relative and largely depends on which end of the barrel you're on. Balance is an objective construct by its definition. It's not relative, especially in game play. In fact the notion of balance is diametrically opposed to the logical concept of relativity at large. For something to be evaluated relative to something else, this implies a fundamental relationship based on inequalities, and therefore a lack of balance. Just because it sounds good when you say it doesn't necessarily make it true. I think we're talking through each other because we are discussing the differences between the interchangeable but unique terms "same" and "equal". Either way, what I'm talking about is not everything being the same, but being balanced, meaning that if a weapon can strike you from further away, then in order for the game to work it has to require greater difficulty in aiming or lower damage or higher reload times or all of the above. The weapons and robots can be different but they need to be balanced for the games to be evenly matched and the play to make sense. In the same way we see that faster bots have lower health, while bots that can take a lot of fire before burning out move like molasses. The developers at Pixonic have done a phenomenal job at continuously disrupting the balance of their own game by introducing random anomalies, from number of hanger slots to splash damage and shields, which make the game interesting but also instigate a butterfly effect which has reaped major chaos in terms of the game's ability to ever achieve a solid sense of balance. Hence this thread, and all the many others like it. You're probably right about the tridents being from TT, but its still problematic when select weapons can do that at higher levels and cause so much direct anger while other weapons fail to spark the same fire. |
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Post by BLYTHE on Feb 22, 2017 3:55:10 GMT -5
Rippington Steele. Yes, of course it should be objective. I was making the point that calls for Buff! or Nerf! are almost entirely subjective. That's why the debate over TT furies is ongoing.
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Post by Rippington Steele on Feb 22, 2017 6:05:49 GMT -5
Rippington Steele. Yes, of course it should be objective. I was making the point that calls for Buff! or Nerf! are almost entirely subjective. That's why the debate over TT furies is ongoing. Indeed. The nerf and buff cycle are at times worse than the problems they seek to fix. |
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Post by K A Z on Feb 22, 2017 7:00:06 GMT -5
Rippington Steele . Yes, of course it should be objective. I was making the point that calls for Buff! or Nerf! are almost entirely subjective. That's why the debate over TT furies is ongoing. Indeed. The nerf and buff cycle are at times worse than the problems they seek to fix. ...that or "improvements" in MM lol Well, pix surely does a very....ummpphh...diligent job in their efforts to keep us "entertained". Side effect being us, the forum users/gamers, trying all those crazy ideas, config/tactic experiments, all other futile attempts of sorting out the ways to survive in the arenas now...not a stagnant situation for sure. |
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Thump
Destrier
Posts: 74
Karma: 41
Pilot name: Thump
Platform: Android
League: Silver
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Post by Thump on Feb 22, 2017 9:34:59 GMT -5
I have a Trident Fury, but my issue is what to put in the 5th slot. The Fury is just too slow for It is very map dependent also. There is also now a volume of Trident Carnages in my games, usually 3+ and they pick apart the Fury quickly. And also the Aphids are strong. So lots more players using mid range and Aphids to either keep distance or covered.
I am trying the Hydras to combat them all from cover. But they do still only slow damage at level 7 on L8+ Furies. They work nicely Pattons and Stalkers though and annoying enough to force movement by others.
But they are a last choice in the hangar. Not enough damage to impact game unless there are Pattons chewing up team mates and I can and do take them out. Very useful in PP or Dead City where Aphid chuckers have lots of cover. A Fury is near useless in DC and only marginally better in PP. But chance of winning drops radically if I roll with the Hydra Spiral Griff before my Galahads. So I am leveling my Hydras even if I shelve them when I get my bots up toward TT.
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Post by shivaswrath on Feb 22, 2017 10:56:14 GMT -5
For this reason, I have my Fury stacked with 2 Tridents and 1 Zeus, so I can fry little Griffin 「fluffernutter」ers at 350-600 who want to target me...indeed it's tough with the Hydras, but if you put the Fury against a wall, the damage is somewhat mitigated.
I also bring my Fury out after I run my 2 Galahad's and 1 Griffin...
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Post by miatahead on Feb 22, 2017 11:38:25 GMT -5
Yes, it will kill the Trident Fury. It will kill everything. Eventually. Problem is you still need to win on beacons and by the time you get significant advantage with it, 3/4 of the game will be over.
So if you are going to win, I'd say you did nothing and the other 5 really won the game. If you are losing, you've been sitting in that bot too long and better do something in a different bot to catch up.
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88generalblue
GI. Patton
Posts: 137
Karma: 76
Platform: Android
Clan: Wik2
League: Silver
Favorite robot: Gareth w/ Taran, Aphids
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Post by 88generalblue on Feb 28, 2017 21:35:36 GMT -5
@blythe & Rippington Steele, I understand balancing is impossible in a game as diverse as this one, but I'd prefer something close-range being more OP over something that stands 600m away. for example, aphid patton/geps are very, very strong, but if they have the same range as my plasma weapons, I feel like I can fight back. it's also fun, the challenge of defeating somebody with them and/or using them myself is a lot of fun to play. however, tridents are not fun, not interesting. they negate any sort of talent that one has at this game because the splash radius is large enough that it shoots around corners and you don't need to aim very well. My problem isn't that one thing is too strong or another too weak, but if they want to make something strong, it should be more fun to play it  anyhow, back on point with this thread, I don't have Hydras, but I have felt them be annoying before and they work well on nearly any map. |
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Post by BLYTHE on Feb 28, 2017 22:56:57 GMT -5
@blythe & Rippington Steele , I understand balancing is impossible in a game as diverse as this one, but I'd prefer something close-range being more OP over something that stands 600m away. for example, aphid patton/geps are very, very strong, but if they have the same range as my plasma weapons, I feel like I can fight back. it's also fun, the challenge of defeating somebody with them and/or using them myself is a lot of fun to play. however, tridents are not fun, not interesting. they negate any sort of talent that one has at this game because the splash radius is large enough that it shoots around corners and you don't need to aim very well. My problem isn't that one thing is too strong or another too weak, but if they want to make something strong, it should be more fun to play it anyhow, back on point with this thread, I don't have Hydras, but I have felt them be annoying before and they work well on nearly any map. Using a TT Fury isn't fun, I'll give you that. Everyone thinks you're OP but in reality your s-s-slow; you're prone to sliding at the most inopportune of times; your tridents at 600M take forever to connect (I have to calculate bot speed, projectile speed, and decide how much to lead my shots; you're susceptible to snipers, RDBs, pesky hydras, and even molots fired 800M away; you're useless on DC and PP; if you solo (which I do), no one protects you and everyone on the RED team wants your head; and to top it off, the new skin makes you look like the abominable snowman. You cost 5K Au and are only usable for less than 3 mins. That's why I can't wait to eject out of my fury and jump into my Galahads. I only have to worry about rockets and it can pretty much kill everything. Now that's a fun bot to pilot! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 23:06:09 GMT -5
You know the situations when one or more Furys get a dominant position? Then making you rage constantly because your team hardly makes progress towards the center? For this situations I keep a Griff (Hydra/Spiral) on my fifth slot. Really only as an anti Trident fighter because I hate them so much. I am pretty successful with shooting the Homings from cover, since the huuuge, slow Fury cant easily find cover from them. And if the do, they are mostly unable to put pressure your team anymore. In most cases I start by running for beacons with Stalker or Galahad. Then, when I recognize some anoying furys, I get my Hydras and ?firetruck? them off. As soon as I finished them, I mostly sacrafice my Griff, if there are no suitable targets anymore. This is because you cannot really put up significant pressure with them (except for snow map maybe). The thing is, that I hardly noticed anyone recommending this Robot for anti sniper. I know Hydras are lame in any other context but against tridents I find them very comfortable. What do you think? Am I just too noob too see the better option? Maybe I should notice that sniping is not my playstyle, so I do not like the nashorn or molot better, since I would not want to keep playing them after killing those ugly Furys. Please let me know your opinion about this Griffin setup against Fury. What lvls are your spirals and hyrdras |
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Post by osang on Feb 28, 2017 23:39:39 GMT -5
Yes and annoying. My fury died with endless volley of Hydras from the Red team and can't shoot back because they're hiding.
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88generalblue
GI. Patton
Posts: 137
Karma: 76
Platform: Android
Clan: Wik2
League: Silver
Favorite robot: Gareth w/ Taran, Aphids
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Post by 88generalblue on Mar 8, 2017 1:08:35 GMT -5
since nobody else posted it:
if you want to know more about spirals/hydras, watch this one video from Stew Pendous, very informative and fun to watch.
Blythe- Galahads are where its at! along with gary and griffin, pure chaos on the battle field
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