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Post by kratos20th on Feb 17, 2017 10:28:10 GMT -5
Currently for midrange support I am using my lvl 6 carnage with 2 lvl 1p tridents . I have 4k gold and will unlock 5th slot soon . So I was thinking to add gekko zeus leo iny 5th slot as I really like that build . Though it is a very expensive one as I have to buy all the weapons for that build or someothere bot maybe . But is it okay to have 2 midrangers as I don't really like knifefighting and like more of a supporting role in a team . Usually after capping beacons my main purpose is to weaken the enemy front lines . Any suggestions what to do??? and I am thinking to buy a Fujin or a 2nd carnage with thunders (I reaaly enjoyed using this build) for my 4th slot .
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Post by boomsplat on Feb 17, 2017 11:08:30 GMT -5
Currently for midrange support I am using my lvl 6 carnage with 2 lvl 1p tridents . I have 4k gold and will unlock 5th slot soon . So I was thinking to add gekko zeus leo iny 5th slot as I really like that build . Though it is a very expensive one as I have to buy all the weapons for that build or someothere bot maybe . But is it okay to have 2 midrangers as I don't really like knifefighting and like more of a supporting role in a team . Usually after capping beacons my main purpose is to weaken the enemy front lines . Any suggestions what to do??? and I am thinking to buy a Fujin or a 2nd carnage with thunders (I reaaly enjoyed using this build) for my 4th slot . Sure - you can run multiple MR bots but you may find the short maps harder to do well in. So if you do start to overweight in MR bots (and 2 is not really overweight IMO), you could play just long maps or adjust your tactics for short maps because you need that line of sight for your MR....and by adjust tactics, I'm not saying go up the ramps and camp. You may need to push more aggressively down the sides of Dead City for instance to more effectively use those 500M weps. good luck.
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Post by petevb on Feb 17, 2017 11:47:12 GMT -5
The rule of thumb is 1 midrange. If you're meching out regularly you might need to run a second in order to survive to the end, but it's only rarely preferred.
Even the strongest long range bots do very poor DPM. They survive a long time and don't threaten beacons. They should be used almost exclusively to win the range battle on open maps.
Midrange is much better, but DPM is still poor compared to brawlers. Use it to win the range battle first, then to focus on critical positions, working on high threat enemies and double-teaming with teammates. You should easily be able to last 3 minutes in a mid-range bot, but this is a double edged sword- you're not pushing position or doing as much damage as a result.
Brawlers/ power runners do max damage and take and hold territory best, but they don't last as long- around 1.5 minutes depending on how fast they are and how well and aggressively they are played. Opening the 5th slot will let you last longer. Leveling up, however, will decrease life. If you can play aggressively and make all 5 bots last until the end then you probably don't want another mid-range.
If you list all bots and weapons we can help better. I would recommend against the Leo.
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Post by SuperHero on Feb 17, 2017 11:53:52 GMT -5
^^ Listen to Pete, he knows what he's talking about. I too also do not suggest the Leo.
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Post by Conflict's Student on Feb 17, 2017 12:13:02 GMT -5
Maybe consider something much cheaper and more flexible that allows you to midrange when the maps support it, or be an opportunist (somewhere between midrange and KF) on the others: RDB Griffin. Griffin, tulumbas, pins are all Ag and all already start at level 5/6 so you immediately have something useful in that 5th slot.
Have fun!
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Feb 17, 2017 12:22:58 GMT -5
Guess it depends on the player... if you are looking at TT play and maximizing your damage dealt, period, then 1 should be enough, like was said above.
But, if you are constantly getting put up against massive amounts of other MR setups and you don't have a squad that knows how to counter to help you, then you may be better off with 2. I run 2 right now when I am running my serious hanger. 1 Carny Trident and 1 Carny Zeus. Mainly because most of my solos will guarantee to have multiple Furies and bot and weapon levels that are +2 above mine on average. It works for me. It's easy to put thunders back on one of those when my matches seem to be less involved with MR on the Red side. And, even if I have both in MR setups, Carny is good at helping the push and getting well forward of the "front lines" on maps that seem to devolve into a battle over center.
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Post by RightOn on Feb 17, 2017 13:13:40 GMT -5
I run a long range and mid range and do fine (500k avg, levels 9 and 10)
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Post by kratos20th on Feb 17, 2017 13:24:22 GMT -5
The rule of thumb is 1 midrange. If you're meching out regularly you might need to run a second in order to survive to the end, but it's only rarely preferred. Even the strongest long range bots do very poor DPM. They survive a long time and don't threaten beacons. They should be used almost exclusively to win the range battle on open maps. Midrange is much better, but DPM is still poor compared to brawlers. Use it to win the range battle first, then to focus on critical positions, working on high threat enemies and double-teaming with teammates. You should easily be able to last 3 minutes in a mid-range bot, but this is a double edged sword- you're not pushing position or doing as much damage as a result. Brawlers/ power runners do max damage and take and hold territory best, but they don't last as long- around 1.5 minutes depending on how fast they are and how well and aggressively they are played. Opening the 5th slot will let you last longer. Leveling up, however, will decrease life. If you can play aggressively and make all 5 bots last until the end then you probably don't want another mid-range. If you list all bots and weapons we can help better. I would recommend against the Leo. In my hangar I have lvl 9 Gareth with lvl 8 taran and magnam , lvl 8 galahad with lvl 7 magnams and taran , lvl 6 carnage with lvl 9 and 10 tridents . The last is lvl 6 DB griffin with lvl 6 ,7 pinata and lvl 7,8 orkans
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Post by Team Alpha Strike on Feb 17, 2017 15:24:21 GMT -5
Currently for midrange support I am using my lvl 6 carnage with 2 lvl 1p tridents . I have 4k gold and will unlock 5th slot soon . So I was thinking to add gekko zeus leo iny 5th slot as I really like that build . Though it is a very expensive one as I have to buy all the weapons for that build or someothere bot maybe . But is it okay to have 2 midrangers as I don't really like knifefighting and like more of a supporting role in a team . Usually after capping beacons my main purpose is to weaken the enemy front lines . Any suggestions what to do??? and I am thinking to buy a Fujin or a 2nd carnage with thunders (I reaaly enjoyed using this build) for my 4th slot . I'd not recommend using 2 mid-rangers fir the same reasons stated in prior comment. With one big caveat --- it's okay to use 2 mid-rangers if one or both of them function in a quasi-knifer or close support role. Either role must have decent speed to redeploy/run away if keep up with a Griffin at a minimum. I see these 4 mid-range setups that fulfill these specs: 1-Quad Tulumbas Doc: The Tool Doc is already magical at mid-range support, but it also delivers 160K in 28 seconds or 80K in 5 seconds at knifer range all the way to 510m. That means you can cripple outright all light bots and kill almost all bots that are half dead in 5 seconds. This means you can use a Tool Doc in almost all roles in a pinch. IMO this is one of the mist fictional builds in this game right now. 2-Quad Molot Mk2 Doc: The Molot Doc delivers a max 228K damage in about 30 seconds or about 110K in 15 secs (an important number because that's before a Piñata can fire twice at you). The Molot Doc is a good mid-range Fury suppressor, but that 110K max damage in 15 seconds at ranges under 300m should translate to at least 75-85K in an LOS knifer situation. This means you can support blue knifers AND keep knifer fire lanes clear with a constant line of bullets (when you stagger firings combined with QuickDraw). This is a great tactical setup that isn't used yet in the fire suppression role, but it will become common once the Doc is available widely. 3-Dual Zeus Carnage: At approximately 84K of Ancil shield bypassing firepower in about 20 seconds, the Zeus Carnage pilots should feel confident in the role of close support. One tip about close support with the Zeus --- "close" is any range where you can hit an non-physical shield red bot. If the support/follow range truly is knifer distance (<300m) then try to follow a blue splash knifer (cause at the least you'll force a tide-turner or Rhino to activate shield - which makes their backpedaling less effective or functionally immobilizes them and helps your blue splash buddy). 4-Dual Trident Carnage: At 80K splash damage in 16 seconds, the Trident Carnage soften a target by 40K damage in 3 seconds ---- which is EXTREMELY important if you in close support of a DB setup as it means that all bots other than the Leo and Raijin are dead or crippled in one DB salvo (your 40K damage makes that possible). Or, you can finish off a heavy for your DB pal instantly - before that red heavy has time to cause serious return fire damage on your DB pal. Either way, the Trident Carnage is a good close support bot that can cover a massive 615m radius --- but you'll need to drive it much closer if you want to really be there for your fellow blue heavies. So these are the 4 mid-range setups I'd use if I was going to use 2 or more mid-rangers in my hangar. IMO, the flexibility these setups allow offset the slightly less damage they deliver at either true mid-range or true knifer range.
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Post by Team Alpha Strike on Feb 17, 2017 15:26:50 GMT -5
Currently for midrange support I am using my lvl 6 carnage with 2 lvl 1p tridents . I have 4k gold and will unlock 5th slot soon . So I was thinking to add gekko zeus leo iny 5th slot as I really like that build . Though it is a very expensive one as I have to buy all the weapons for that build or someothere bot maybe . But is it okay to have 2 midrangers as I don't really like knifefighting and like more of a supporting role in a team . Usually after capping beacons my main purpose is to weaken the enemy front lines . Any suggestions what to do??? and I am thinking to buy a Fujin or a 2nd carnage with thunders (I reaaly enjoyed using this build) for my 4th slot . I'd not recommend using 2 mid-rangers fir the same reasons stated in prior comment. With one big caveat --- it's okay to use 2 mid-rangers if one or both of them function in a quasi-knifer or close support role. Either role must have decent speed to redeploy/run away if keep up with a Griffin at a minimum. I see these 4 mid-range setups that fulfill these specs: 1-Quad Tulumbas Doc: The Tool Doc is already magical at mid-range support, but it also delivers 160K in 28 seconds or 80K in 5 seconds at knifer range all the way to 510m. That means you can cripple outright all light bots and kill almost all bots that are half dead in 5 seconds. This means you can use a Tool Doc in almost all roles in a pinch. IMO this is the most cross functional build in this game right now. 2-Quad Molot Mk2 Doc: The Molot Doc delivers a max 228K damage in about 30 seconds or about 110K in 15 secs (an important number because that's before a Piñata can fire twice at you). The Molot Doc is a good mid-range Fury suppressor, but that 110K max damage in 15 seconds at ranges under 300m should translate to at least 75-85K in an LOS knifer situation. This means you can support blue knifers AND keep knifer fire lanes clear with a constant line of bullets (when you stagger firings combined with QuickDraw). This is a great tactical setup that isn't used yet in the fire suppression role, but it will become common once the Doc is available widely. 3-Dual Zeus Carnage: At approximately 84K of Ancil shield bypassing firepower in about 20 seconds, the Zeus Carnage pilots should feel confident in the role of close support. One tip about close support with the Zeus --- "close" is any range where you can hit an non-physical shield red bot. If the support/follow range truly is knifer distance (<300m) then try to follow a blue splash knifer (cause at the least you'll force a tide-turner or Rhino to activate shield - which makes their backpedaling less effective or functionally immobilizes them and helps your blue splash buddy). 4-Dual Trident Carnage: At 80K splash damage in 16 seconds, the Trident Carnage soften a target by 40K damage in 3 seconds ---- which is EXTREMELY important if you in close support of a DB setup as it means that all bots other than the Leo and Raijin are dead or crippled in one DB salvo (your 40K damage makes that possible). Or, you can finish off a heavy for your DB pal instantly - before that red heavy has time to cause serious return fire damage on your DB pal. Either way, the Trident Carnage is a good close support bot that can cover a massive 615m radius --- but you'll need to drive it much closer if you want to really be there for your fellow blue heavies. So these are the 4 mid-range setups I'd use if I was going to use 2 or more mid-rangers in my hangar. IMO, the flexibility these setups allow offset the slightly less damage they deliver at either true mid-range or true knifer range.
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Post by Team Alpha Strike on Feb 17, 2017 15:28:22 GMT -5
Currently for midrange support I am using my lvl 6 carnage with 2 lvl 1p tridents . I have 4k gold and will unlock 5th slot soon . So I was thinking to add gekko zeus leo iny 5th slot as I really like that build . Though it is a very expensive one as I have to buy all the weapons for that build or someothere bot maybe . But is it okay to have 2 midrangers as I don't really like knifefighting and like more of a supporting role in a team . Usually after capping beacons my main purpose is to weaken the enemy front lines . Any suggestions what to do??? and I am thinking to buy a Fujin or a 2nd carnage with thunders (I reaaly enjoyed using this build) for my 4th slot . I'd not recommend using 2 mid-rangers fir the same reasons stated in prior comment. With one big caveat --- it's okay to use 2 mid-rangers if one or both of them function in a quasi-knifer or close support role. Either role must have decent speed to redeploy/run away if keep up with a Griffin at a minimum. I see these 4 mid-range setups that fulfill these specs: 1-Quad Tulumbas Doc: The Tool Doc is already magical at mid-range support, but it also delivers 160K in 28 seconds or 80K in 5 seconds at knifer range all the way to 510m. That means you can cripple outright all light bots and kill almost all bots that are half dead in 5 seconds. This means you can use a Tool Doc in almost all roles in a pinch. IMO this is the most cross functional build in this game right now. 2-Quad Molot Mk2 Doc: The Molot Doc delivers a max 228K damage in about 30 seconds or about 110K in 15 secs (an important number because that's before a Piñata can fire twice at you). The Molot Doc is a good mid-range Fury suppressor, but that 110K max damage in 15 seconds at ranges under 300m should translate to at least 75-85K in an LOS knifer situation. This means you can support blue knifers AND keep knifer fire lanes clear with a constant line of bullets (when you stagger firings combined with QuickDraw). This is a great tactical setup that isn't used yet in the fire suppression role, but it will become common once the Doc is available widely. 3-Dual Zeus Carnage: At approximately 84K of Ancil shield bypassing firepower in about 20 seconds, the Zeus Carnage pilots should feel confident in the role of close support. One tip about close support with the Zeus --- "close" is any range where you can hit an non-physical shield red bot. If the support/follow range truly is knifer distance (<300m) then try to follow a blue splash knifer (cause at the least you'll force a tide-turner or Rhino to activate shield - which makes their backpedaling less effective or functionally immobilizes them and helps your blue splash buddy). 4-Dual Trident Carnage: At 80K splash damage in 16 seconds, the Trident Carnage soften a target by 40K damage in 3 seconds ---- which is EXTREMELY important if you in close support of a DB setup as it means that all bots other than the Leo and Raijin are dead or crippled in one DB salvo (your 40K damage makes that possible). Or, you can finish off a heavy for your DB pal instantly - before that red heavy has time to cause serious return fire damage on your DB pal. Either way, the Trident Carnage is a good close support bot that can cover a massive 615m radius --- but you'll need to drive it much closer if you want to really be there for your fellow blue heavies. So these are the 4 mid-range setups I'd use if I was going to use 2 or more mid-rangers in my hangar. IMO, the flexibility these setups allow offset the slightly less damage they deliver at either true mid-range or true knifer range.
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Post by petevb on Feb 17, 2017 16:12:38 GMT -5
I'd not recommend using 2 mid-rangers fir the same reasons stated in prior comment. With one big caveat --- it's okay to use 2 mid-rangers if one or both of them function in a quasi-knifer or close support role. Either role must have decent speed to redeploy/run away if keep up with a Griffin at a minimum. I see these 4 mid-range setups that fulfill these specs: 1-Quad Tulumbas Doc: The Tool Doc is already magical at mid-range support, but it also delivers 160K in 28 seconds or 80K in 5 seconds at knifer range all the way to 510m. That means you can cripple outright all light bots and kill almost all bots that are half dead in 5 seconds. This means you can use a Tool Doc in almost all roles in a pinch. IMO this is one of the mist fictional builds in this game right now. 2-Quad Molot Mk2 Doc: The Molot Doc delivers a max 228K damage in about 30 seconds or about 110K in 15 secs (an important number because that's before a Piñata can fire twice at you). The Molot Doc is a good mid-range Fury suppressor, but that 110K max damage in 15 seconds at ranges under 300m should translate to at least 75-85K in an LOS knifer situation. This means you can support blue knifers AND keep knifer fire lanes clear with a constant line of bullets (when you stagger firings combined with QuickDraw). This is a great tactical setup that isn't used yet in the fire suppression role, but it will become common once the Doc is available widely. 3-Dual Zeus Carnage: At approximately 84K of Ancil shield bypassing firepower in about 20 seconds, the Zeus Carnage pilots should feel confident in the role of close support. One tip about close support with the Zeus --- "close" is any range where you can hit an non-physical shield red bot. If the support/follow range truly is knifer distance (<300m) then try to follow a blue splash knifer (cause at the least you'll force a tide-turner or Rhino to activate shield - which makes their backpedaling less effective or functionally immobilizes them and helps your blue splash buddy). 4-Dual Trident Carnage: At 80K splash damage in 16 seconds, the Trident Carnage soften a target by 40K damage in 3 seconds ---- which is EXTREMELY important if you in close support of a DB setup as it means that all bots other than the Leo and Raijin are dead or crippled in one DB salvo (your 40K damage makes that possible). Or, you can finish off a heavy for your DB pal instantly - before that red heavy has time to cause serious return fire damage on your DB pal. Either way, the Trident Carnage is a good close support bot that can cover a massive 615m radius --- but you'll need to drive it much closer if you want to really be there for your fellow blue heavies. So these are the 4 mid-range setups I'd use if I was going to use 2 or more mid-rangers in my hangar. IMO, the flexibility these setups allow offset the slightly less damage they deliver at either true mid-range or true knifer range. My favorite setups when running all maps with more than one mid range: Trident Fury plus either Tulu Doc RDB Trident Fury The big weakness with range is obviously on short range maps, Dead City in particular. Long range bots and Zeus are even less effective on those maps, so when running two range bots I try to avoid them in favor of 2x splash mid-range. And of the above combos can be used effectively on all maps if you know how to drive, and I've done well with all of them. That said you're leaning more on your teammates for the brawler roles if you go this route, and given that the mech-out factor is higher you'll generally want your weaker players in the range heavy slot rather than the stronger ones. So while I do run both occasionally I still feel slightly stronger overall in the 4 and 1 configuration (with current game balance).
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Post by petevb on Feb 17, 2017 16:22:36 GMT -5
In my hangar I have lvl 9 Gareth with lvl 8 taran and magnam , lvl 8 galahad with lvl 7 magnams and taran , lvl 6 carnage with lvl 9 and 10 tridents . The last is lvl 6 DB griffin with lvl 6 ,7 pinata and lvl 7,8 orkans Solid start. Short term I would add a 2nd splash brawler in the DB class. A PhOrk Griffin (aphid ork) and a DB Griffin or Rhino would work well. Medium term I would then swap the Carnage Trident for a Trident Fury. Pretty close to one of my favorite current lineups: PDB Galahad / PDB Galahad / Ork Thunder Lancelot / DB Rhino / TT Fury
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2017 16:25:19 GMT -5
So I was thinking to add gekko zeus leo iny 5th slot as I really like that build This thread is full of excellent advice, by people that can steer you to the best possible setups. Presumably, that is why you are here -- to learn from experienced guys like Pete. And they are right, Gekko-Zeus Leo is not the best bot for the job you want to do here. But I will just remind you of what you said above. Do what makes you happiest.
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RΛИDØM
Destrier
iOS - clan BMF
Posts: 91
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Pilot name: RANDOM
Platform: iOS
Clan: BMF
League: Top
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Post by RΛИDØM on Feb 18, 2017 3:29:51 GMT -5
It depends on which setups you run: In a mid-range robot you have 3 main missions: 1: destroy enemy trident furys; 2: defend (or clear) the center beacon from enemy brawlers, 3: support friendly brawlers pushing enemy beacons. I wouldn't keep more than 2 ranged robots in my hangar at a time because of the need for beacon control, the chance of getting a small map and the need to balance your hangar with those of your teammates. The triple trident fury is currently among the best top tier robots and can be found in numerous hangars (including frequently mine). The main inexpensive alternatives are the 2 trident Carnage, and the tulumbus Griffin.
2 midrange is often sub-optimal because you are better off with either: 1 mid/long-range and 4 brawlers OR 1 long-range 1 mid-range and 3 brawlers depending on the size of the map and the hangars used by your team and your opposition. On power plant and dead city you need brawlers to take and hold beacons quickly or the game will be over - there is so much cover available that even mid-range (except maybe the RDB Griffin) is of limited use.
On the larger maps it is safer and usually quicker to clear enemy mid-range by using long-range (particularly the 4 Trebuchet Butch). The mid-range can then be used to clear the center beacon and support friendly brawlers. Having a single effective sniper can be a game winner on long maps because you can take out the Red triple trident Furys. However, the long-range robot is essentially a wasted robot on the 2-3 small maps. This is where coordianting with clan/squad mates comes into play so that not everyone has a maxed long-range robot but at least one player on your team has one.
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Post by elttaes on Feb 20, 2017 6:21:43 GMT -5
Remember that support doesn't necessarily mean mid-range or long. My PDB Griffin usually follows a blue knife fighter, engaging the targets it engages or keeping other reds off it's six.
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Post by K A Z on Feb 20, 2017 7:17:45 GMT -5
Atm I have Trident Carny and a RDB Griff. Both are MR, but due to different characteristics play different roles. I'm finding Carny more suited for Springfield/Yama, while RDBg does well in DC, PP. For Canyon and Shenz results may vary Altogether I'm quite happy with both; more doubts I have to my ThunderAphid leo - Aphid gep felt more capable. As for the laser pointers - I concur with above. Not the best investment imo. That is unless you want to max them out and keep pissing ppl off...then it could be an option too
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Post by mechtout on Feb 20, 2017 8:18:28 GMT -5
If you are being shoved up vs tt, you do better with 3 mid range bots and a couple of center brawlers. Get a fury over that expensive leo imo.
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bmc
GI. Patton
Posts: 127
Karma: 57
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Post by bmc on Mar 2, 2017 7:17:55 GMT -5
Maybe consider something much cheaper and more flexible that allows you to midrange when the maps support it, or be an opportunist (somewhere between midrange and KF) on the others: RDB Griffin. Griffin, tulumbas, pins are all Ag and all already start at level 5/6 so you immediately have something useful in that 5th slot. Have fun! I agree with the above statement. I had two RDB griffins and I loved them. Even on enclosed maps they make due with their jump capabilities, and since there are a lot of brit bots nowadays the pin/tulu combo does great damage. I still keep on RDB griff and made the other a plasma. I have a trident carnage for the other midrange since it can stretch the distance a bit more by 100 meters. Good luck!
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