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Post by gladiator84 on Feb 14, 2017 12:42:17 GMT -5
So in the beginning I used Pinatas on a Gep pretty extensively since the bot was fast enough to close to point blank, unload and get out of there. Then I graduated to higher levels, my Gep evaporated faster, I switched to plasma setups on heavier bots and did real well with plasma knife fighters until now.
The problem I have now is trying to use rockets again, particularly mid range like crv pin, and it seems that I either can't hit targets even when inside the appropriate ranges, or I don't hit dead on so the damage is pretty dismal.
Do I need to lead my target? Point right at them? How do griffins land every shot with orkan/pinata while jumping through the air but I can't hit Leo at 450 with the pin?
I'm sure practice is important but can you give me some pointers as a starting point.
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Post by [apotheosis] on Feb 14, 2017 12:51:50 GMT -5
You do have to lead the target. The trick is how much and dependa on so many factors, your speed and direction, their speed and direction, types of bots etc. One tip when Aiming for any bots that can jump is time to hit when they land.
It really just takes practice. I have started recording games and analyzing them for things like that. Eventually 'I should have lead much more in that situation' turns into 'well that red exploded, next!'
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Post by noobcake on Feb 14, 2017 12:54:28 GMT -5
I have had the same issue happen from time to time but I figure it must be lag. I have noticed that it happens occasionally with both rockets and even plasma sometimes. I will unload and the first half of the payload won't do damage but the last half will. OR with plasma i'll fire into another bot from 200m and it goes right past them the first few shots before catching on. Luckily it isn't every game for me.
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Post by Trogon on Feb 14, 2017 14:18:56 GMT -5
I know this is redundant but it's definitely all about practice. When the target is moving you have to lead the target, when you're moving you have to trail the target, and if you're both moving it gets really fun. If you watch the rockets fly, you can often see where they're going and adjust your aim point as they're firing so that you hit with at least some of the salvo.
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Post by soulcoffr on Feb 14, 2017 14:44:04 GMT -5
I run into issues where even though I'm aimed at a particular bot, the difference in terrain makes me miss high or low. Aren't they supposed to adjust?
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Post by Trogon on Feb 14, 2017 14:52:51 GMT -5
I run into issues where even though I'm aimed at a particular bot, the difference in terrain makes me miss high or low. Aren't they supposed to adjust? This may happen if you're not in range. Max range for Orkans and Pinatas is 300m, for Tulumbas and Pins is 500m. Just because the targeting square is around a bot doesn't mean it's in range. This can also happen if your target is moving up or down a slope. There's no way to lead a target up or down, unfortunately. |
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Post by soulcoffr on Feb 14, 2017 15:33:11 GMT -5
That makes sense. Sometimes I get the ranges screwed up on my RDB Griff. I confuse them with Punisher ranges, I guess.
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Post by Trogon on Feb 14, 2017 15:45:35 GMT -5
I've also had it happen sometimes when I don't use the target lock-on button that the focus switches to another bot that's out of range just as I fire and I end up wasting the shot. Very annoying, and you'd think it would have taught me by now to always lock my target  |
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shadowpuppet
Recruit
Posts: 4
Karma: 3
Pilot name: Shadowpuppet
Platform: iOS
Server Region: North America
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Post by shadowpuppet on Feb 14, 2017 20:03:07 GMT -5
I am new and loving using the Pin system. I have a Gi. Patton that I was like, wow I can put 4 of them on it. I had one 4 during the Lunar event so figured I would use them. I was doing good for a day or so but now it seems like I am running against nasty heavy's that just go meh and sing me the song of their people til I find myself in my next bot. My Gi. Patton is lv 4 with 4 lv 5 Pins. Also I run a few of the Dstriders with a pair of Pins as well. I tried the Pinata system but couldn't seem to figure it out.
Also seems last day or so I been getting tossed at mainly med/heavies while I am still in mainly Lights and 1 med...
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Post by noobcake on Feb 14, 2017 20:35:52 GMT -5
I know this is redundant but it's definitely all about practice. When the target is moving you have to lead the target, when you're moving you have to trail the target, and if you're both moving it gets really fun. If you watch the rockets fly, you can often see where they're going and adjust your aim point as they're firing so that you hit with at least some of the salvo. I am a wiz with the orkan and can lead a target like nobody's business. When I say that the damage isn't registering, I mean that the explosions are overlapping with the red bot--not in front, not behind (and they aren't backpeddling). About half the clip is wasted before it decides that damage will occur. The same thing has happened with the taran where I fire through the bot for a while before it realizes it should be hitting. This is not a case of user error but some kind of server lag where perhaps the bot is not really in the place that is being displayed on my screen. |
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Pulse Hadron
Destrier
Posts: 85
Karma: 52
Pilot name: Pulse Hadron
Platform: iOS
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Post by Pulse Hadron on Feb 14, 2017 20:36:37 GMT -5
when you're moving you have to trail the target Really? I thought the rockets flew straight to where the crosshairs were when they left, so stay aligned on the stationary bot as I move. I'll test this out but I don't understand it. |
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Post by Trogon on Feb 15, 2017 12:33:31 GMT -5
I know this is redundant but it's definitely all about practice. When the target is moving you have to lead the target, when you're moving you have to trail the target, and if you're both moving it gets really fun. If you watch the rockets fly, you can often see where they're going and adjust your aim point as they're firing so that you hit with at least some of the salvo. I am a wiz with the orkan and can lead a target like nobody's business. When I say that the damage isn't registering, I mean that the explosions are overlapping with the red bot--not in front, not behind (and they aren't backpeddling). About half the clip is wasted before it decides that damage will occur. The same thing has happened with the taran where I fire through the bot for a while before it realizes it should be hitting. This is not a case of user error but some kind of server lag where perhaps the bot is not really in the place that is being displayed on my screen. Yeah, I've definitely seen problems with lag, too, like I unload my rockets at what looks like a stationary bot and then suddenly the target teleports 50m to the right and all my rockets missed. |
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Post by noobcake on Feb 15, 2017 13:00:52 GMT -5
when you're moving you have to trail the target Really? I thought the rockets flew straight to where the crosshairs were when they left, so stay aligned on the stationary bot as I move. I'll test this out but I don't understand it. The rockets have the momentum of your bot as you fire it. If you are travelling to the right, the rockets will also also go slightly right. In a fast bot this means that you need to trail a stationary target if you are moving. |
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Post by Cyklown on Feb 15, 2017 14:54:43 GMT -5
I know this is redundant but it's definitely all about practice. When the target is moving you have to lead the target, when you're moving you have to trail the target, and if you're both moving it gets really fun. If you watch the rockets fly, you can often see where they're going and adjust your aim point as they're firing so that you hit with at least some of the salvo. I am a wiz with the orkan and can lead a target like nobody's business. When I say that the damage isn't registering, I mean that the explosions are overlapping with the red bot--not in front, not behind (and they aren't backpeddling). About half the clip is wasted before it decides that damage will occur. The same thing has happened with the taran where I fire through the bot for a while before it realizes it should be hitting. This is not a case of user error but some kind of server lag where perhaps the bot is not really in the place that is being displayed on my screen. Are you sure it's not damage lag? Orkans are the worst for it, but even Tridents do it- the damage sometimes just takes more time to occur than it should. |
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Post by noobcake on Feb 15, 2017 15:51:06 GMT -5
I am a wiz with the orkan and can lead a target like nobody's business. When I say that the damage isn't registering, I mean that the explosions are overlapping with the red bot--not in front, not behind (and they aren't backpeddling). About half the clip is wasted before it decides that damage will occur. The same thing has happened with the taran where I fire through the bot for a while before it realizes it should be hitting. This is not a case of user error but some kind of server lag where perhaps the bot is not really in the place that is being displayed on my screen. Are you sure it's not damage lag? Orkans are the worst for it, but even Tridents do it- the damage sometimes just takes more time to occur than it should. I have seen that too but that isn't what I am talking about. The DB Griffin unloading a full clip into an opponent should outright kill most medium bots and severely damage heavy bots with higher hp. I know that it isn't just delayed because the damage never comes. I unload everything into an opponent and their hp dips by 1/4 for a full DB griffin. It's frustrating but luckily it doesn't happen every game. |
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Post by whatttupG on Feb 15, 2017 17:27:20 GMT -5
Rockets have several issues...
Range: it's kind of easy to forget you need to do math before firing and what range that math needs.. 300, 350, 500.. you'd think the red box could be made a bit smarter. If this was a real world design, I would make range a huge part of targeting. As is, the red box doesn't help you at all.
Lag: no aim ever can beat this.. ever see a full battery of orkan's and pinata's not even scratch the targets HP? Me too... there is no other answer, distance to target times lag means this issue can hurt or prevent anything you do.
Lead: combine the two items above, add in the fact one of you is probably moving and divide by the fog of war... leading or trailing a target is pretty tough, the best approach I see is trying to avoid this if possible. (yes its often not)
In game play, it's a bit of a dumb move per se but when I go to fire, I stop and aim as best I can and do so while I'm not moving. Yes for a few seconds I'm asking for it, however, missing a rocket blast usually carries a bigger penalty if your target lives so, absorb a little fire during a full kill is way better than missing a little to me.
Like swatting a bee, if you decide that's your route, you better kill the bee. Anything less and you have a pissed off bee fully focused on making his last stand count. Plus having just swung and missed, it's usually bee's turn and that usually doesn't end well for you.
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Pulse Hadron
Destrier
Posts: 85
Karma: 52
Pilot name: Pulse Hadron
Platform: iOS
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Post by Pulse Hadron on Feb 15, 2017 21:09:16 GMT -5
The rockets have the momentum of your bot as you fire it. Wow, this game has more physics than I thought. Thanks noobcake, this will defintely help my game. I feel like the noob, 3000+ victories and just learning this  |
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Pulse Hadron
Destrier
Posts: 85
Karma: 52
Pilot name: Pulse Hadron
Platform: iOS
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Post by Pulse Hadron on Feb 17, 2017 0:10:41 GMT -5
It certainly has helped. Paying more attention to relative motions and leading and trailing shots I was tearing up reds in Dead City with a DB Griffin. Easily doubled my effectiveness. Now I know why those other DBs were so much more impactful, it's not weapon level so much as relative aim. Still have a hard time getting those Stalkers though!
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Post by noobcake on Feb 17, 2017 1:08:26 GMT -5
It certainly has helped. Paying more attention to relative motions and leading and trailing shots I was tearing up reds in Dead City with a DB Griffin. Easily doubled my effectiveness. Now I know why those other DBs were so much more impactful, it's not weapon level so much as relative aim. Still have a hard time getting those Stalkers though! It's easier to hit them when you are super close and not jumping. Here are some tips to help take them to the underworld. 1. Corner shoot a few orkans as you retreat back from the corner. This should get them to activate stealth and rush at you. Start counting down from 8 to time their stealth. 2. Keep backing up behind the wall to minimize damage and to draw them in closer as they try to get a few shots in. 3. Move into the open once their stealth is about to end get a clear line of sight and a little bit of distance so that they can't run around you as you fire. 4. Stealth runs out and target is in sight. Press the red button and laugh in a diabolical way as you send their 「bum-bum」 to Hades. What happens when things don't go according to plan for each step. 1. If they don't activate stealth after getting hit by a few orkans means it might still be on cooldown. Try firing more orkans. You will either get them to pop stealth or you will start dealing damage. 2. If you can't hide behind the wall anymore and they have lots of time on their stealth. Rush the stalker--magnums are difficult to aim in close quarters. 3. If they are too close when stealth is up and you are in danger of them running around you. Jump directly away as you target them. Hit the red button asap after jumping. 4. What if you can't laugh in a diabolic way. Instead, try to laugh in a mentally unstable way. No one is judging you. Best of luck! |
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Post by sochilli (Saltesers) on Feb 17, 2017 1:14:04 GMT -5
Rockets have several issues... Range: it's kind of easy to forget you need to do math before firing and what range that math needs.. 300, 350, 500.. you'd think the red box could be made a bit smarter. If this was a real world design, I would make range a huge part of targeting. As is, the red box doesn't help you at all. Lag: no aim ever can beat this.. ever see a full battery of orkan's and pinata's not even scratch the targets HP? Me too... there is no other answer, distance to target times lag means this issue can hurt or prevent anything you do. Lead: combine the two items above, add in the fact one of you is probably moving and divide by the fog of war... leading or trailing a target is pretty tough, the best approach I see is trying to avoid this if possible. (yes its often not) In game play, it's a bit of a dumb move per se but when I go to fire, I stop and aim as best I can and do so while I'm not moving. Yes for a few seconds I'm asking for it, however, missing a rocket blast usually carries a bigger penalty if your target lives so, absorb a little fire during a full kill is way better than missing a little to me. Like swatting a bee, if you decide that's your route, you better kill the bee. Anything less and you have a pissed off bee fully focused on making his last stand count. Plus having just swung and missed, it's usually bee's turn and that usually doesn't end well for you. It's really not hard to tell the difference between the ranges of the weapons... ROCKETS Pinata, Orkan: 300m Pin, Tulumbas: 500m Trident: 600m Missiles Aphid: 350m Spiral, Hydra: 600m Aerial Artillery Noricums, Zenits: 400-1100m As for aim, sometimes the target may be back-pedalling, which means the damage doesn't register because the bot is beating the missile to the edge of the splash radius. |
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Post by BLYTHE on Feb 17, 2017 1:23:45 GMT -5
Rockets have several issues... Range: it's kind of easy to forget you need to do math before firing and what range that math needs.. 300, 350, 500.. you'd think the red box could be made a bit smarter. If this was a real world design, I would make range a huge part of targeting. As is, the red box doesn't help you at all. Lag: no aim ever can beat this.. ever see a full battery of orkan's and pinata's not even scratch the targets HP? Me too... there is no other answer, distance to target times lag means this issue can hurt or prevent anything you do. Lead: combine the two items above, add in the fact one of you is probably moving and divide by the fog of war... leading or trailing a target is pretty tough, the best approach I see is trying to avoid this if possible. (yes its often not) In game play, it's a bit of a dumb move per se but when I go to fire, I stop and aim as best I can and do so while I'm not moving. Yes for a few seconds I'm asking for it, however, missing a rocket blast usually carries a bigger penalty if your target lives so, absorb a little fire during a full kill is way better than missing a little to me. Like swatting a bee, if you decide that's your route, you better kill the bee. Anything less and you have a pissed off bee fully focused on making his last stand count. Plus having just swung and missed, it's usually bee's turn and that usually doesn't end well for you. It's really not hard to tell the difference between the ranges of the weapons... ROCKETS Pinata, Orkan: 300m Pin, Tulumbas: 500m Trident: 600m Missiles Aphid: 300m Spiral, Hydra: 600m Aerial Artillery Noricums, Zenits: 400-1100m As for aim, sometimes the target may be back-pedalling, which means the damage doesn't register because the bot is beating the missile to the edge of the splash radius. CORRECTION: Aphids are 350m. |
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Post by whatttupG on Feb 17, 2017 15:14:20 GMT -5
Rockets have several issues... Range: it's kind of easy to forget you need to do math before firing and what range that math needs.. 300, 350, 500.. you'd think the red box could be made a bit smarter. If this was a real world design, I would make range a huge part of targeting. As is, the red box doesn't help you at all. Lag: no aim ever can beat this.. ever see a full battery of orkan's and pinata's not even scratch the targets HP? Me too... there is no other answer, distance to target times lag means this issue can hurt or prevent anything you do. Lead: combine the two items above, add in the fact one of you is probably moving and divide by the fog of war... leading or trailing a target is pretty tough, the best approach I see is trying to avoid this if possible. (yes its often not) In game play, it's a bit of a dumb move per se but when I go to fire, I stop and aim as best I can and do so while I'm not moving. Yes for a few seconds I'm asking for it, however, missing a rocket blast usually carries a bigger penalty if your target lives so, absorb a little fire during a full kill is way better than missing a little to me. Like swatting a bee, if you decide that's your route, you better kill the bee. Anything less and you have a pissed off bee fully focused on making his last stand count. Plus having just swung and missed, it's usually bee's turn and that usually doesn't end well for you. It's really not hard to tell the difference between the ranges of the weapons... ROCKETS Pinata, Orkan: 300m Pin, Tulumbas: 500m Trident: 600m Missiles Aphid: 350m Spiral, Hydra: 600m Aerial Artillery Noricums, Zenits: 400-1100m As for aim, sometimes the target may be back-pedalling, which means the damage doesn't register because the bot is beating the missile to the edge of the splash radius. I agree it's not difficult, but in the furious nature of combat it's offer very cumbersome. When marching to blast someone with your pinatas, you might get blasted yourself with plasma things before you're really in range. Those tend to have a 350 range, your rockets may have a 300 range, so you must force yourself many times to eat 50m worth of Mag/taran before pulling your trigger. In this case, the reaction to blast back on the spot under such duress is real but you have to check your math before fighting back. This is poor design because your nature would have you screw this up. If the targeting box were designed to feed you this, versus force you to know it on your own, it would be a better design. If it refused to fire out of range, much like homing fire won't leave unless its already locked on, it might be even better, from a help the pilot view. So difficult, not exactly. Could be way better, yes on several levels. |
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Post by whatttupG on Feb 17, 2017 15:41:59 GMT -5
Oh wanted to add this as well, already stated so I'm just validating this point.
If both of you are moving, say you both are walking "left" such that your moving to your left but so is the other guy.. you indeed need to trail the target not lead. If you stare close enough you can see how your aim really changes where stuff hits and a tendency here to lead your target is actually the wrong thing to do. You need to have your cross hairs behind the center of the red box for anything you shoot to meet your opponent.
Yes physics momentum blah blah blah it's a robot game.. but I'm guessing the real world works like this too. Anyone with military training is stuff like tanks would be welcome to chime in for sure this is how it works in the game.
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